Derek Carr fixes this immediately

[slimjasi]

15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It's funny now hearing so many people argue for what I argued for year ago with Kirk Cousins.

Many of them folks who vehmently disagreed with me back then, and were all in on Zach Wilson, lol.

Except now they want to do it for a worse QB, for likely more money, at a worse portion of that QB's career, lol.

With that said, Carr, while a risk, is miles better than Wilson at his best.  And we have to do something.

I remember you being in on Cousins and you were right. And we did go all in for him, he just chose Minny over us. 

But question - how much worse is Derek Carr than Kirk Cousins? Their career stats seem pretty similar (Kirk slightly better across the board). Carr also has experience in a west coast offense and *should* be pretty motivated after being dumped by the Raiders. 

 

[RedBeardedSavage]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

It's funny now hearing so many people argue for what I argued for year ago with Kirk Cousins.

Many of them folks who vehmently disagreed with me back then, and were all in on Zach Wilson, lol.

Except now they want to do it for a worse QB, for likely more money, at a worse portion of that QB's career, lol.

With that said, Carr, while a risk, is miles better than Wilson at his best.  And we have to do something.

2 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I remember you being in on Cousins and you were right. And we did go all in for him, he just chose Minny over us. 

But question - how much worse is Derek Carr than Kirk Cousins? Their career stats seem pretty similar (Kirk slightly better across the board). Carr also has experience in a west coast offense and *should* be pretty motivated after being dumped by the Raiders. 

 

Props to @Warfish - I remember those days. You were also right about G Wilson. 

But I agree with @slimjasi here. 

I think Carr is better than he's given credit for - I haven't watched enough Raiders football this season to speak with any authority on the problem there, but I've never been a believer in McDaniels.

Last year, without Davante and with Waller playing injured or not playing at all, Carr threw for 4800 yards. 

It's not the most exciting choice, but I think it's a no-brainer.

The real question is will Carr consider coming here.

 

[Warfish]

14 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I remember you being in on Cousins and you were right. And we did go all in for him, he just chose Minny over us.

We could have went harder.

14 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

But question - how much worse is Derek Carr than Kirk Cousins? Their career stats seem pretty similar (Kirk slightly better across the board). Carr also has experience in a west coast offense and *should* be pretty motivated after being dumped by the Raiders. 

I don't know.  I don't think of Carr as being as good as Cousins, personally, and the stats bear that out to some degree.

But I don't know how good he would be here, with us, or what it will cost to get him here.  He is under contract with the Raiders thru 2025 (see overthecap link below for details), and while benched for poor play (not a great sign) the Raiders will still likely want to/try to trade him, rather than release him.  He also costs ~30-40 million/year, cap wise, on his current deal the next three seasons (2023-2025).

https://overthecap.com/player/derek-carr/2975#:~:text=Derek Carr signed a five year%2C %24125.025 million,so please cite him if using this information.

He would certainly be a major improvement, if he plays to his past level.  But his steep decline this year concerns me.  

 

[Barry McCockinner]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

We could have went harder.

I don't know.  I don't think of Carr as being as good as Cousins, personally, and the stats bear that out to some degree.

But I don't know how good he would be here, with us, or what it will cost to get him here.  He is under contract with the Raiders thru 2025 (see overthecap link below for details), and while benched for poor play (not a great sign) the Raiders will still likely want to/try to trade him, rather than release him.  He also costs ~30-40 million/year, cap wise, on his current deal the next three seasons (2023-2025).

https://overthecap.com/player/derek-carr/2975#:~:text=Derek Carr signed a five year%2C %24125.025 million,so please cite him if using this information.

He would certainly be a major improvement, if he plays to his past level.  But his steep decline this year concerns me.  

 

The way the contract is written it seems pretty likely he's cut within 3 days of the superbowl.

[Warfish]

Just now, Barry McCockinner said:

The way the contract is written it seems pretty likely he's cut within 3 days of the superbowl.

That would certainly ease the road, although then it's a "who pays him the most to be in a place he wants to be" question.  

Is that going to be us?

[GreenSince93]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

That would certainly ease the road, although then it's a "who pays him the most to be in a place he wants to be" question.  

Is that going to be us?

Maybe mid season but at this point can’t imagine unless we Big  Macc style over pay any self respecting QB would want to come here. Considering 2 of our receivers have asked to be traded this year and that was before things got real bad. Amazing what a difference a few can make 

[rex-n-effect]

There is a small possibility that Carr remains with the Raiders. If the front office isn't wowed by Stidham, they may force McDaniels to keep Carr. 

If the Raiders move to trade Carr, it is most likely because Stidham did well enough for McDaniels to make the case for Stidham as the future of the team. Then the question becomes: was Carr that bad of a bad fit for McDaniels's system or did he fall off a cliff? There is some risk that the Carr the next team signs looks like the 2022 Carr. Does it make sense to pay $40mm/yr plus trade capital to find out? IMO the answer to that question is not clear cut. 

[slimjasi]

36 minutes ago, Warfish said:

We could have went harder.

I don't know.  I don't think of Carr as being as good as Cousins, personally, and the stats bear that out to some degree.

But I don't know how good he would be here, with us, or what it will cost to get him here.  He is under contract with the Raiders thru 2025 (see overthecap link below for details), and while benched for poor play (not a great sign) the Raiders will still likely want to/try to trade him, rather than release him.  He also costs ~30-40 million/year, cap wise, on his current deal the next three seasons (2023-2025).

https://overthecap.com/player/derek-carr/2975#:~:text=Derek Carr signed a five year%2C %24125.025 million,so please cite him if using this information.

He would certainly be a major improvement, if he plays to his past level.  But his steep decline this year concerns me.  

 

Yea, I'd be far less interested in trading assets for him. But, if he's cut, I think he's possibly the best (realistic) option that we have. Aaron Rodgers or Lamar Jackson aren't walking through that door. Carr might. 

[dbatesman]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

My take is that the Jets are going to spend a lot of money to move from the 38th best quarterback in the sport to the 18th best quarterback in the sport

Carr’s career DYAR ranks: 33rd, 12th, 7th, 12th, 21st, 6th, 7th, 8th, 15th. But even if we stipulate the ranking, 38th —> 18th would be an enormous improvement. This year, the 18th best quarterback in the league by DYAR is Daniel Jones. By DVOA it’s Kirk Cousins. By passer rating or QBR it’s Tom Brady. By adjusted yards per attempt, it’s Justin Herbert. Put any of those QBs on the 2022 Jets, and we make the playoffs, no?

[usanyj]

Since 2015, Carr has 23 4th quarter comebacks and 29 game winning drives. I think that stat is tops over any other qb in that time frame. 

The amount of slander for this man is unreal.  He would be a breath of fresh air at QB for the Jets. He is a year removed from almost 5k yards and almost 70% completion rate. and to read that people want andy dalton or brissett over Carr is wild to me.  Also, if Saleh and Douglas are really on the hot seat, if you think they would hang their hat on Jacoby Brissett, you're out of your mind.  

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Carr’s career DYAR ranks: 33rd, 12th, 7th, 12th, 21st, 6th, 7th, 8th, 15th. But even if we stipulate the ranking, 38th —> 18th would be an enormous improvement. This year, the 18th best quarterback in the league by DYAR is Daniel Jones. By DVOA it’s Kirk Cousins. By passer rating or QBR it’s Tom Brady. By adjusted yards per attempt, it’s Justin Herbert. Put any of those QBs on the 2022 Jets, and we make the playoffs, no?

What’s missing there is the intangibles/leadership stuff which may be overrated, but that’s gotta factor into the decision. I’d probably sign him and would be ok if they did, only because they’re so, so desperate, but I don’t think it materially changes too much. Carr has been a starter for nine years and has been in one playoff game.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, OilfieldJet said:

Perfect, exactly what we should be doing. You aren't actually worried about spending Woody's money are you? And Carr is more like a historical 12-14th best QB in the sport.

The money will equate to time spent starting Carr no matter how effective he is. You sign Carr, he’s the starter here for three years minimum. They need to know what they’re buying

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

What’s missing there is the intangibles/leadership stuff which may be overrated, but that’s gotta factor into the decision. I’d probably sign him and would be ok if they did, only because they’re so, so desperate, but I don’t think it materially changes too much. Carr has been a starter for nine years and has been in one playoff game.

Yet the rams didn’t use that logic when acquiring Stafford.  

It’s difficult to see how carr starting every game for the jets this season doesn’t get them a wild card birth.  

[JetPotato]

Read today that Washington is going to make Carr their top offseason priority.

The Jets plan is they just need a new Assistant Quarterbacks Coordinator. There's that guy from the Bergen Catholic staff that's got people buzzing.

[usanyj]

1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

Carr’s career DYAR ranks: 33rd, 12th, 7th, 12th, 21st, 6th, 7th, 8th, 15th. But even if we stipulate the ranking, 38th —> 18th would be an enormous improvement. This year, the 18th best quarterback in the league by DYAR is Daniel Jones. By DVOA it’s Kirk Cousins. By passer rating or QBR it’s Tom Brady. By adjusted yards per attempt, it’s Justin Herbert. Put any of those QBs on the 2022 Jets, and we make the playoffs, no?

And everyone in the tri state area is on their knees for Danny Dimes as a franchise qb and he has 15 td passes and barely 3k yards.

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Yet the rams didn’t use that logic when acquiring Stafford.  

It’s difficult to see how carr starting every game for the jets this season doesn’t get them a wild card birth.  

The Rams were two years removed from a Super Bowl appearance with Jared Goff, and now the Rams are trapped in hell with a broken down Matt Stafford. The analogy you’re drawing is that the Jets should enter a similar hell to get a wild card berth.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The Rams were two years removed from a Super Bowl appearance with Jared Goff, and now the Rams are trapped in hell with a broken down Matt Stafford. The analogy you’re drawing is that the Jets should enter a similar hell to get a wild card berth.

Rams traded for Stafford whereas the jets will probably be able to sign carr, and for 1 or 2 years.  

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Rams traded for Stafford whereas the jets will probably be able to sign carr, and for 1 or 2 years.  

There’s going to be competition for Carr. You’re not getting him on a short-term deal. He’s 32 years old.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Sean Payton fixes this immediately

But he’s not coming here so long as Woody is the owner

And without a QB who’s to say he wouldn’t jump ship after 1 or 2 years anyway 

No coincidence that after Brees retires, Payton basically says no thanks, I’m done here

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Sean Payton fixes this immediately

But he’s not coming here so long as Woody is the owner

And without a QB who’s to say he wouldn’t jump ship after 1 or 2 years anyway 

No coincidence that after Brees retires, Payton basically says no thanks, I’m done here

And he’s talking about how to fix russel wilson.  He aligns himself with qbs who will make him look good.  

[T0mShane]

3 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

He has a top 10 ceiling (2016, 19 & 20). All this offense needs is competent QB play from someone how is consistently available.

I feel like we’re not just a QB away, though I get that’s become the common wisdom. Carr is fine, but I think the Jets are kidding themselves if they feel like he’s going to carry them to a Super Bowl.

[OilfieldJet]

20 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The money will equate to time spent starting Carr no matter how effective he is. You sign Carr, he’s the starter here for three years minimum. They need to know what they’re buying

Isn't that OK? Anything wrong with a 3 years starter? The wonderful thing about signing a vet, is that you know what you are buying (unless of course its the Bronco's and Russel Wilson).

[GreenFish]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

We could have went harder.

I don't know.  I don't think of Carr as being as good as Cousins, personally, and the stats bear that out to some degree.

But I don't know how good he would be here, with us, or what it will cost to get him here.  He is under contract with the Raiders thru 2025 (see overthecap link below for details), and while benched for poor play (not a great sign) the Raiders will still likely want to/try to trade him, rather than release him.  He also costs ~30-40 million/year, cap wise, on his current deal the next three seasons (2023-2025).

https://overthecap.com/player/derek-carr/2975#:~:text=Derek Carr signed a five year%2C %24125.025 million,so please cite him if using this information.

He would certainly be a major improvement, if he plays to his past level.  But his steep decline this year concerns me.  

 

It’s all about the fit with the OC. Carr is not a good fit with McDaniels. He was a good fit with Gruden. When I watch both play, they seem like similarly skilled players.

The question is whether Carr is a good fit with ML.

Carr is likely going to have to take a pay cut. I expect his pay to be similar to Cousins.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, T0mShane said:

I feel like we’re not just a QB away, though I get that’s become the common wisdom. Carr is fine, but I think the Jets are kidding themselves if they feel like he’s going to carry them to a Super Bowl.

True but remember there are now jobs on the line.  We know the circle of life and death here.  We’re at the intermediate part of the play where all the good vibes are gone and the hc/gm enter survival mode.  Jd is winning right now despite wilson b/c of his last draft, but that’s all he has.  If becton miraculously comes back and plays that helps him too.  Another good draft would also keep him here.  And remember avt and breece should also be back next season.

as for the coach, he just needs to win.  And we know saleh would jettison wilson in a heartbeat.  So my guess is that he aligns himself with MLF and pounds the table for a veteran.

my problem with saleh’s stance this year is that he essentially went all in that changing qbs would be enough to get to the playoffs.  Yet white now looks like wilson.  And flacco looked bad too.  So there’s 3 starting qbs this season who all crapped out, and now saleh is going to have to spin yet another narrative that a veteran presence is needed, but unlike flacco who sucks.  He’ll insist he loves white, but wants competition.  He’ll insist that wilson is not done here but will make him inactive.  He’s fighting too many fronts and we know how those wars worked out .

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, OilfieldJet said:

Isn't that OK? Anything wrong with a 3 years starter? The wonderful thing about signing a vet, is that you know what you are buying (unless of course its the Bronco's and Russel Wilson).

What did all that Derek Carr money buy the Raiders the last nine years? 

[dbatesman]

29 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

What’s missing there is the intangibles/leadership stuff which may be overrated, but that’s gotta factor into the decision. I’d probably sign him and would be ok if they did, only because they’re so, so desperate, but I don’t think it materially changes too much. Carr has been a starter for nine years and has been in one playoff game.

I don't disagree with any of this. I think Carr is a loser, and a weird churchy freak who will get eaten alive here. The problem is that the team not only needs a QB, but a QB who can conceivably take them to the playoffs. If Douglas and Saleh put together a QB room of Garoppolo, Wilson, and White getting coached by the Packers' Deputy Assistant to the Offensive Quality Control Coach, they're not making it to Christmas.

[usanyj]

14 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Sean Payton fixes this immediately

But he’s not coming here so long as Woody is the owner

And without a QB who’s to say he wouldn’t jump ship after 1 or 2 years anyway 

No coincidence that after Brees retires, Payton basically says no thanks, I’m done here

What I find interesting is everyone clamoring for Sean Payton, when just TWO short years ago, when people here said they wanted Mike McCarthy they were lambasted for wanting a  "retread" coach who was a proven winner.

Mike McCarthy (59 yrs old) career numbers - 131-87-2, 1 of only 4 head coaches to lead his team to the playoffs 8 years in a row, 1 Super Bowl win....Had Aaron Rodgers

Sean Payton (59 yrs old) career numbers - 139-84, 8 playoff wins, 1 super bowl...had Drew Brees.

Payton aint coming here and if he did it would go against the wishes of what most people on here said not too long ago.

[dbatesman]

16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

There’s going to be competition for Carr. You’re not getting him on a short-term deal. He’s 32 years old.

Go listen to the Athletic Football Show's Week 17 preview. Mays talks about this in detail. tl;dr it's easy to adjust Carr's contract so you can cut him after two years, or even one, without destroying your cap.

[Barry McCockinner]

13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I feel like we’re not just a QB away, though I get that’s become the common wisdom. Carr is fine, but I think the Jets are kidding themselves if they feel like he’s going to carry them to a Super Bowl.

You never know. Teams with a strong defense and running game tend to do well in the playoffs. Our d was playing at a pretty high level for a good portion of the season. I feel like they've been demoralized by one inept offensive performance after another.

The teams with elite QB's will also be the favorites but the way this team is being built I feel like it can go deep into the playoffs with a guy like Carr. 

There's also the fact that JD & Saleh need to get the team into the playoffs in 2023 if they want to keep job security.

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I don't disagree with any of this. I think Carr is a loser, and a weird churchy freak who will get eaten alive here. The problem is that the team not only needs a QB, but a QB who can conceivably take them to the playoffs. If Douglas and Saleh put together a QB room of Garoppolo, Wilson, and White getting coached by the Packers' Deputy Assistant to the Offensive Quality Control Coach, they're not making it to Christmas.

lol.

My mind immediately went to Barney Fife (or perhaps a combo of him and Dwight Schrute):

 

[dbatesman]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

lol.

My mind immediately went to Barney Fife:

 

Don't sleep on it. Fife and Saleh were grad assistants together at Central Michigan.

[dbatesman]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Carr is fine, but I think the Jets are kidding themselves if they feel like he’s going to carry them to a Super Bowl.

Sorry to reply-blitz you here, but I just want to be clear: I don't think Carr is carrying anyone to a Super Bowl, ever. The idea is just to get some basic competency and stability out of the QB position for a couple of years until they can draft and develop a long-term guy. This is precisely what the Bills did with Tyrod before drafting Allen, or the Chiefs with Alex Smith before drafting Mahomes. The Jets are doing it late and ass-backwards because they already drafted a QB, but the logic still holds.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

3 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Sorry to reply-blitz you here, but I just want to be clear: I don't think Carr is carrying anyone to a Super Bowl, ever. The idea is just to get some basic competency and stability out of the QB position for a couple of years until they can draft and develop a long-term guy. This is precisely what the Bills did with Tyrod before drafting Allen, or the Chiefs with Alex Smith before drafting Mahomes. The Jets are doing it late and ass-backwards because they already drafted a QB, but the logic still holds.

What compensation is worth it to you?

[OilfieldJet]

22 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

What did all that Derek Carr money buy the Raiders the last nine years? 

At a glance, 2 playoff appearances. 2 more than, well, you know.

[OilfieldJet]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol.

My mind immediately went to Barney Fife (or perhaps a combo of him and Dwight Schrute):

 

I find that watching Mayberry reruns early in the morning lowers my blood pressure.