Sean Payton wants what?

[Hal N of Provo]

4 hours ago, JiFields said:

Well, you know, Kevin James plays him in a movie and he won a SB 20 years ago, so this adds up.

A feel good movie about a time in his life he was Serving a suspension for an ethics violation.  
 

He’s got money making and image management figured out.

2 - 1sts though ?!?  

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, JetPotato said:

Cool straw man.

The argument is that ROBERT SALEH doesn't know anything about offense, which makes up about 5% of my point.

What straw man
Because I don’t agree with the dumb idea that planning defenses to stop other teams offenses leaves you not knowing anything about offense.  Guess when you see offenses that are difficult to stop, nothing sinks in.  

As for straw man, did those examples of successful HCs know offense?  
It’s not all that hard to grasp.

[Jet Nut]

17 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I did not use the word cheap. There's just no reason to overspend on a Payton when winning and losing pays the same. 

The NFL is communism on the highest level. The jets do not get paid by the win they get paid by the attempt 

Understand that financial reality and you'll understand everything you need to know about Jets football 

Guys like Jerry Jones, Bob Kraft and David tepper are willing to go the extra step to try to win, I'm not sure if woody cares one way or the other 

 O you’re calling him cheap because we could say this about any owner, they all make a ton of money.  Woody wants to win, he’s a fan, a former STH.  
With all the money he makes off of the Jets an extra 10 or so M isn’t breaking any owner.  They’re billionaires, you’re not grasping what billions mean in this context

[RutgersJetFan]

3 hours ago, chirorob said:

Coaches should be paid more.

Which would you rather have, a mediocre guard making 5 million, and a great HC making 20, or a great guard making 20, and a mediocre coach.

Plus, there is no salary cap for coaches, the owners can afford it.

I'll bite, the guard.

[Edgy]

18 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I did not use the word cheap. There's just no reason to overspend on a Payton when winning and losing pays the same. 

The NFL is communism on the highest level. The jets do not get paid by the win they get paid by the attempt 

Understand that financial reality and you'll understand everything you need to know about Jets football 

Guys like Jerry Jones, Bob Kraft and David tepper are willing to go the extra step to try to win, I'm not sure if woody cares one way or the other 

Fair enough.  I just haven't seen ANY evidence that Woody doesn't WANT to win, or doesn't care.

I don't think he's all that good at being an owner... but I don't have any evidence it's because of apathy.

[bitonti]

8 minutes ago, Edgy said:

Fair enough.  I just haven't seen ANY evidence that Woody doesn't WANT to win, or doesn't care.

I don't think he's all that good at being an owner... but I don't have any evidence it's because of apathy.

he cares but he also sets a hard budget and never goes over it. 

in a way, I can see his point of view. It's a league of 31 losers and 1 winner every year. There are let's say 12 owners willing to "lose money" in an attempt to win, Woody is not one of those owners. 

we know from the Green Bay Packers books that the massive TV contracts are split, the tickets are split, the merch is split. The only thing individual owners keep are luxury boxes, concessions, parking passes and sponsorships.  

they want to keep selling parking passes and everything else but it's not like winning or losing really pushes the needle. It's a money printing machine either way. Hiring Sean Payton helps winning but hurts the printing presses. 

it's a football franchise in NY but they run it like a baseball team in Pittsburgh and they pocket everything they can  

[baamf]

Straight from the horses mouth. Not two first round picks, just one...

With Payton soon to be available, he has armed himself with the information any team interested in hiring him will want to know: the price. Payton, an NFL analyst for Fox Sports this season, said on "The Herd" with Colin Cowherd that he has had conversations with Saints general manager Mickey Loomis and that the trade compensation required to get him will be "a mid-to-late first-round pick." 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/sean-payton-says-trade-compensation-to-acquire-his-contractual-rights-will-be-a-mid-to-late-first-round-pick/

 

[bitonti]

17 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 O you’re calling him cheap because we could say this about any owner, they all make a ton of money.  Woody wants to win, he’s a fan, a former STH.  
With all the money he makes off of the Jets an extra 10 or so M isn’t breaking any owner.  They’re billionaires, you’re not grasping what billions mean in this context

there's no question that the Johnsons are sitting on a pile of money but the job of generational wealth is to grow the pile 

hiring sean payton and bringing in Lamar Jackson hurts the pile. It's much more wallet friendly to bring in Nate Hackett and run it back with Zach. 

put it another way there's a word for the money woody doesn't spend on the Jets it's called profit 

you don't have to believe me, watch what happens

there's not going to be a "big splash" or even a medium one it's going to be like Zach and Taylor Heineke/ Gardner Minshew 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, JetPotato said:

Payton's proven track record of success against Saleh's defensive background and no track record of anything whatsoever as a head coach means Payton's odds of success are much higher than Saleh's. Period.

I wouldn't disagree, in general.  Better odds.  Not perfect odds. 

Especially since Peyton had no success that didn't involve a HOF QB he had from day 1, a QB who didn't need developed or improved or otherwise changed.  We don't have that, nor would Peyton if he came here.

1 hour ago, JetPotato said:

**** THE MONEY. **** THE DRAFT PICKS.

I'll take "things fans say that Owners and organizations never say" for $1000, Alex.

1 hour ago, JetPotato said:

It all gets wasted anyway if we keep operating the way this organization has been for the past 50 years, with the exception of the brief Parcells era.

Our Owners makes a healthy profit from the Jets, by all accounts.  Win or lose.

Waste in this case is a fan thing, not an Owner thing, and he would have to foot the bill.

Also, our most success came with Rex Ryan, long after Parcells, and that success had almost nothing to do with Parcells or his many mistakes, bad coaches and bad contracts he left behind.

1 hour ago, JetPotato said:

You'll see when Denver returns to respectability quickly and the Jets do their Jets thing for yet another decade. I promise you, we're going to be calling for a new coach come January 2024. Might as well go for a guy that's available now that you know for a fact is capable. 

This is the way. I don't expect it. But I'm telling you right now... this is the next big wasted opportunity. I'm taking receipts.

There is no defense of the Jets.

With that said, it's not fans that need convinced the big name famous guy is better than the no-name also-ran.

It's the Owner.  And his priorities aren't the same, in the same ways, as Fans.

[jgb]

22 minutes ago, bitonti said:

he cares but he also sets a hard budget and never goes over it. 

in a way, I can see his point of view. It's a league of 31 losers and 1 winner every year. There are let's say 12 owners willing to "lose money" in an attempt to win, Woody is not one of those owners. 

we know from the Green Bay Packers books that the massive TV contracts are split, the tickets are split, the merch is split. The only thing individual owners keep are luxury boxes, concessions, parking passes and sponsorships.  

they want to keep selling parking passes and everything else but it's not like winning or losing really pushes the needle. It's a money printing machine either way. Hiring Sean Payton helps winning but hurts the printing presses. 

it's a football franchise in NY but they run it like a baseball team in Pittsburgh and they pocket everything they can  

Woody is the Max Bialystok of the NFL.

[BurntDice]

4 hours ago, chirorob said:

Coaches should be paid more.

Which would you rather have, a mediocre guard making 5 million, and a great HC making 20, or a great guard making 20, and a mediocre coach.

Plus, there is no salary cap for coaches, the owners can afford it.

I kind of agree, but for coaches they can be around for 50 years. Players are usually out within 10

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Call me crazy but I don’t want anything to do with a HC who’s never won a thing without Drew Brees in the NFCS.  And usually choked in the playoffs.  

What are these “playoffs” of which you speak?

[chirorob]

12 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

I kind of agree, but for coaches they can be around for 50 years. Players are usually out within 10

True.

Also, the man who runs the locker room should not be the 10th highest paid person in the locker room.

For that matter, college coaches should not make more than nfl coaches.

[Edgy]

46 minutes ago, bitonti said:

he cares but he also sets a hard budget and never goes over it. 

<snip>

it's a football franchise in NY but they run it like a baseball team in Pittsburgh and they pocket everything they can  

Like - how do you know this?    I'm genuinely curious.  Ive not seen any reports of how a budget was set and not exceeded.

 

I grew up a Pirates fan watching them trade away every prospect right before the deadline every year and living off of the MLB profit splits.  This hurts.  (And I don't think is true.)

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

What are these “playoffs” of which you speak?

The vast majority

[Barry McCockinner]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Again, I’m not saying he sucks, I’m saying there’s no way he’s worth two first round picks and $20M/year. 

why does anyone care how much of Woody Johnson's money he gets though?

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

he cares but he also sets a hard budget and never goes over it. 

in a way, I can see his point of view. It's a league of 31 losers and 1 winner every year. There are let's say 12 owners willing to "lose money" in an attempt to win, Woody is not one of those owners. 

we know from the Green Bay Packers books that the massive TV contracts are split, the tickets are split, the merch is split. The only thing individual owners keep are luxury boxes, concessions, parking passes and sponsorships.  

they want to keep selling parking passes and everything else but it's not like winning or losing really pushes the needle. It's a money printing machine either way. Hiring Sean Payton helps winning but hurts the printing presses. 

it's a football franchise in NY but they run it like a baseball team in Pittsburgh and they pocket everything they can  

The Jets are near the top of the league in attendance every year, the vast majority by STs.  They sell parking passes with id guess every season ticket.   They have a radio deal better than most.  They have a huge number of luxury boxes at Met Life.    I’m seeing where they’re hurting though a lack of sponsorship dollars.  He spends.  We complain.  Odd

[bitonti]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

The Jets are near the top of the league in attendance every year, the vast majority by STs.  They sell parking passes with id guess every season ticket.   They have a radio deal better than most.  They have a huge number of luxury boxes at Met Life.    I’m seeing where they’re hurting though a lack of sponsorship dollars.   

exactly. They enjoy all this success despite being a bottom feeder 

it's not like winning makes them more money 

 

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, Edgy said:

Like - how do you know this?    I'm genuinely curious.  Ive not seen any reports of how a budget was set and not exceeded.

 

I grew up a Pirates fan watching them trade away every prospect right before the deadline every year and living off of the MLB profit splits.  This hurts.  (And I don't think is true.)

because the Green Bay Packers are owned by the town of Green Bay, WI, their books are open. The revenue sharing is all spelled out, and it's all equal. Roughly speaking the player pool is like 200 mil plus and the Tv contract split is like 300 mil plus. 

So that's the revenue side. 100 mil from TV just for showing up.

On the spend side, we don't have exact figures (outside of the player pool) but we know Robert Saleh costs less than most HCs. We know that Sean Payton costs more than most HCs. The Jets are not hiring Andy Reid, Mike McCarthy types. They never have.  

And on down the line. Their assistants are bargain basement guys. Bill Callahan makes a million dollars to coach Cleveland's line. John Benton made very little by comparison. Mike Westoff might have been the last "premium" assistant and he was a Parcells hold over. 

for Woody to hire Sean Payton (as others have pointed out) he'd have to pay out Saleh's contract, and then pay 10 Mil+ for Payton's deal. For Woody to pay for Lamar Jackson he'd have to give Lamar a bigger check than any player in Jets history (while still paying Zach, the current highest paid player in Jets history)

How do we know he's not going to do it? Well we don't. But wait a few weeks and we will see he won't do it. They haven't paid for a homegrown player since Mo Wilkerson. They haven't been to the playoffs for going on 12 years. 

this is not to say the Jets aren't properly funded. The johnsons do just enough to keep the lights on. the results speak for themselves. even the Pirates have had more success

it's not like some accident the team has been terrible. it's a lack of commitment from ownership, dating from around the time Rex crapped out 

if you want my conspiracy theory, there was a time Woody used to care then the West Side Stadium project failed, his various political activities became more important (he literally told the press that the outcome of the 2012 election was more important than the Jets winning a SB) and when that all went sideways he stopped caring so much. 

he even left the country for a 4 years. Ask yourself if you owned a football team would you live in the UK for a few years and let your brother run it? That's not the actions of someone fully committed to winning 

buying the Jets was a smart business decision it's a source of fresh cash to go with all their existing capital and the team itself is a huge asset that keeps increasing in value. 

that's all it is to the Johnsons. It's a business and whether they win 2 games or 4 or 7, business is good 

[Jet Nut]

12 minutes ago, bitonti said:

exactly. They enjoy all this success despite being a bottom feeder 

it's not like winning makes them more money 

 

And yet they keep spending.  
Here I’m thinking you point is they don’t.  

 

[bitonti]

7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And yet they keep spending.  
Here I’m thinking you point is they don’t.  

 

they spend what is mandated by the salary cap/floor system. They don't go overboard in areas where spending isn't mandated like coaching, scouting or training staff

heck it took like half the league getting hurt at metlife for them to look at replacing the turf 

[Jet_Engine1]

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Just now, Jet_Engine1 said:

[Bungaman]

6 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Is he bringing a young Drew Brees with him? 

If I'm not mistaken, no head coach has led two different teams to Lombardi trophies. Food for thought. 

The closest to it, I believe, is Joe Gibbs leading the Foreskins to three Super Bowl wins with three decidedly average QB's. 

[rex-n-effect]

In some bizarre scenario in which Payton agreed to come to the Jets and Woody dumped Saleh, it seems the Jets would have to do it without the benefit of at least one first round pick. If the Jets have to cough up two first rounders, that is a huge hit to a team that needs a few key pieces--especially QB. Any scenario in which Payton comes in would still require a major upgrade at QB. Options get slim if the team has to lose one or two first round picks. If Payton turns out not to be the guy, the defense will always be that a lousy QB got in his way. 

I'm not sure how the Jets acquire any halfway decent QB, keep all their first round picks and then make the trade to acquire Payton short of rolling the dice on another draft pick. Has Payton ever developed a rookie QB before? 

[rangerous]

8 hours ago, TommyT said:

Sean Payton should not be an option if you have to give 2 first rounders and pay 20-25 mil yearly. Let him stay an analyst.

The money is one thing. Giving up those draft picks is crippling.  Are there any players to build around in Denver? I guess Wilson can bounce back and their defense isn’t so bad but losing two firsts will make it that much harder to field a good team.

[rangerous]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

Woody is the Max Bialystok of the NFL.

He wears a cardboard belt? Cons little old ladies into giving him money?

[jeremy2020]

8 hours ago, TommyT said:

Sean Payton should not be an option if you have to give 2 first rounders and pay 20-25 mil yearly. Let him stay an analyst.

It's said to be 1 mid to late 1st rounders and 2 3rds.

[Maxman]

8 hours ago, JiFields said:

Well, you know, Kevin James plays him in a movie and he won a SB 20 years ago, so this adds up.

Kevin James should be coaching the Jets. I could be his body double and handle the press conferences.

[chirorob]

1 hour ago, Bungaman said:

The closest to it, I believe, is Joe Gibbs leading the Foreskins to three Super Bowl wins with three decidedly average QB's. 

Bill Parcells won with Simms and then Hostetler, and got back with the Pats.

You are correct, Gibbs won with Theisman, Doug Williams, and Mark Rypien.

Holmgren won with Farve, was kind of robbed of one with Hasselback.

 

[jgb]

14 minutes ago, rangerous said:

He wears a cardboard belt? Cons little old ladies into giving him money?

Realized he can make more money with a cheap flop than an expensive hit 

[Kleckineau]

4 hours ago, JetPotato said:

Doug Peterson and Andy Reid aren't available. Comments like this blow my mind in their stupidity. And why the hell does anyone who isn't signing the checks care about what the coach gets paid?

Obviously you litlle mind is easily blown. I never said they were available. I mentioned them only as examples as coaches who may be worth that kind of money that Payton is asking. Stupidity? Your response is a good example of stupidity now fix your panties and gfy.

[JetPotato]

5 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

Obviously you litlle mind is easily blown. I never said they were available. I mentioned them only as examples as coaches who may be worth that kind of money that Payton is asking. Stupidity? Your response is a good example of stupidity now fix your panties and gfy.

Instant classic.

[doitny]

6 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't think his contract is up until after 2024.  That is a long time to wait.  Sure the Saints may lower their demand, but you are going to put your team on hiatus for 2023 and then still be at their mercy.

your right it is till 2024. thats still a lot to give up for a coach who has done nothing without Dree Brees. even with him he got one SB.

[CanadaSteve]

9 hours ago, JetPotato said:

Like I have been saying, all it takes is money.

That's what you do if you are serious about changing the success, the perception and the culture of an organization. If you want to go from league joke to legitimate football power, you bring in proven experts who have done it before. You pay whatever it takes. 

Parcells did it briefly. We reverted right back to clownshow when Woody came in.

Yeah....Sorry, he ain't worth it.  How has BB looked without Tom Brady?  Maybe Sean forgets he won't have Drew Brees coming with him.