Scouts take on Brock Bowers - merged

[jetsons]

2 hours ago, rangerous said:

Maybe.  The athletic has the jets moving up to seven to take Nabors.  They also show a DT and an Edge moving into the top ten.

Nabers ...

Not ....

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

6 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Tony was fellating Jace Amaro years ago before and after the draft.  He knows Tight Ends

Francesa was all over Jace Amaro, leading that blind hype train 

The fact he considers Bowers “can’t miss” only further entrenches me in my position that this guy is not going to live up to what the media and fans have built him up to be

[Tony The Wiz]

7 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Tony was fellating Jace Amaro years ago before and after the draft.  He knows Tight Ends

And I also stated Kelce and LaPorta were going to be studs. And well they did. You do miss sometimes. Go see how many these top Draft gurus has done. 

[32EBoozer]

14 minutes ago, Lith said:

I have made my thoughts on Bowers clear in one of the other dozen Brock Bowers thread -- I just haven't felt the need to repeat myself, over and over again, in each successive Bowers thread

When they get merged it's very tough to keep track.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

7 minutes ago, slats said:

So the Jets are gonna redesign their offense to accommodate a rookie H-back, who will immediately become the go-to guy on check downs? I don’t get it. They already have Breece to check the ball down to. I don’t care how much you love Bowers, he’s not more dangerous with the ball in his hands than Breece. I fail to see how Bowers is a massive upgrade over Lazard, who has years of experience playing slot with Rodgers. Not enough for the tenth pick in the draft, imo. This type of usage for Bowers takes away much of his mismatch nightmare charm, too, as he’d likely be covered by a team’s slot CB. If they want to upgrade the slot, one of Nabers or Odunze is best, but even Brian Thomas would do that for them. What’s more frightening to the opposing defense? Williams and Thomas outside with Wilson in the slot, or Wilson and Williams outside with Bowers in the slot? I mean, c’mon, it’s not even close. 
 
This also requires the team’s weakest link, imo -the offensive coaching staff- to redesign the offense to fit the H-back into the starting lineup. I don’t trust them to run the offense they’ve been running. 

The Georgia offense ran through Bowers, I’ve been told.

He was “the best player on the best team in college football”, and it worked there, so that should be good enough to translate to the NFL.

If that’s one of the key arguments pro-Bowers, the Jets might as well trade GW right now for 1st round picks and just let Bowers eat.

They can even go the whole nine and replace GW with Rosemy-Jacksaint.

Bowers is that good.

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, Tony The Wiz said:

The offense will be a very versatile offense. So just say that Breece is in the backfield he may have to pick up the blitz. Or he may just go upfield for 5 yards on a button but is covered. Then Rodgers could look on his right or left and instead being sacked get it out to Bowers who had helped  blocked the edge rusher. So what I am saying Rodgers has so many options. He also has Conklin who will be running his route. You see Rodgers can't do what other QBS do and that is scramble. So he needs multiple outlets to pick up yards.  

So you want to run a double TE system, with three check-down receivers (Hall/Conklin/Bowers)?

You only have so many touches to give.  Wilson is a top-end #1 WR with Zachy-poo, he should be top 5-10 with Rodgers.  Williams, while healthy, is a legit #1B/#2.  Hall needs lots of touches, in the run and the pass. 

Bowers available space is to take play-time and catches from Conklin (mostly) and Ruckert.  To to that he needs to be a top-end blocker, not just a pass catcher (he is not a top-end blocker).  He's not taking the focus of this O's passing game off Wilson/Williams/Hall.  Certainly not as a rookie.  Not doubting he can catch and make plays, but thinking the O will focus on him is I think misguided and undervalues Wilson/Hall.

[#27TheDominator]

12 minutes ago, slats said:

So the Jets are gonna redesign their offense to accommodate a rookie H-back, who will immediately become the go-to guy on check downs? I don’t get it. They already have Breece to check the ball down to. I don’t care how much you love Bowers, he’s not more dangerous with the ball in his hands than Breece. I fail to see how Bowers is a massive upgrade over Lazard, who has years of experience playing slot with Rodgers. Not enough for the tenth pick in the draft, imo. This type of usage for Bowers takes away much of his mismatch nightmare charm, too, as he’d likely be covered by a team’s slot CB. If they want to upgrade the slot, one of Nabers or Odunze is best, but even Brian Thomas would do that for them. What’s more frightening to the opposing defense? Williams and Thomas outside with Wilson in the slot, or Wilson and Williams outside with Bowers in the slot? I mean, c’mon, it’s not even close. 
 
This also requires the team’s weakest link, imo -the offensive coaching staff- to redesign the offense to fit the H-back into the starting lineup. I don’t trust them to run the offense they’ve been running. 

Dude.  I get where you are coming from but if you fail to see how Bowers is a massive upgrade over Lazard, maybe you didn't watch the games last year?  Jeff Smith would have been a massive upgrade over Lazard last season.  I am hopeful for a bounce back, but c'mon.  I totally get wanting one of the big 3 WR first.  I am strangely a little scared of Odunze, but I totally understand that argument.  If they cover Bowers with a slot corner, don't you just throw him the quick screen and let him truck the little Ray Mickens sized ****er for 8+ yards?

9 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Francesa was all over Jace Amaro, leading that blind hype train 

The fact he considers Bowers “can’t miss” only further entrenches me in my position that this guy is not going to live up to what the media and fans have built him up to be

Francesa is a ******* moron that cannot pronounce his own name.  Plenty of people were wrong on Amaro.  My hands are bigger than Amaro's and I am 5'9".  

[The Crusher]

I'm no high IQ football guy like a lot of you but in my simplistic approach, I'm ok with drafting any player that makes defensive pay less attention to Garret Wilson and Breece Hall. I wanna see Garrett covered one on one more this year and I want teams to be concerned about something else not put 11 in the box and key on Breece. If that's Bowers, I don't give a crap about the two letters they use to designate his position. We need players the opposing DC worries about. Period. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

6 minutes ago, Tony The Wiz said:

And I also stated Kelce and LaPorta were going to be studs. And well they did. You do miss sometimes. Go see how many these top Draft gurus has done. 

Similar to Bowers, Amaro was left completely uncovered in college (in TT’s shotgun spread attack)

It’s a bit easier to catch passes when there aren’t any defenders within 10 yards of you 

Bowers is Jim Thorpe compared to Amaro in terms of athletic profile, but the bulk of his touches were manufactured at or behind the LOS

[Trotter]

34 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

I’ve always liked Ruckert and he may already be one of the better inline/move blockers at the position.

But what has he done through two years to warrant passing on Bowers?

The dude has been constantly banged up since before we drafted him and he has 17 receptions through two seasons. He never had more than 26 catches in a single year at OSU.

Neither Conklin or Ruckert should prevent the  Jets from taking a true bluechip playmaker like Bowers.

If one of the Top 3 wideouts is there at #10 or the Jets want to move up a few spots, then go for it. But if they stick at 10 and those guys are gone, then I don’t really understand the massive opposition to Bowers.

for me it is not necessarily warranting passing on bowers but my preference would be ot or wr if the right guy is there at 10

Bowers might be 1000 times better than ruckert conklin etc - or given the 2-3 year window this team has with Rodgers, he might take that time to mature into that and be marginally better then what they have.

Crapshoot and who really knows but TE's in the first round especially high picks typically are not the cant miss that we believe going in.

OT's are typically pro ready and again just for me prob give you the best product for that short 2-3 year window 

[Tony The Wiz]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So you want to run a double TE system, with three check-down receivers (Hall/Conklin/Bowers)?

You only have so many touches to give.  Wilson is a top-end #1 WR with Zachy-poo, he should be top 5-10 with Rodgers.  Williams, while healthy, is a legit #1B/#2.  Hall needs lots of touches, in the run and the pass. 

Bowers available space is to take play-time and catches from Conklin (mostly) and Ruckert.  To to that he needs to be a top-end blocker, not just a pass catcher (he is not a top-end blocker).  He's not taking the focus of this O's passing game off Wilson/Williams/Hall.  Certainly not as a rookie.  Not doubting he can catch and make plays, but thinking the O will focus on him is I think misguided and undervalues Wilson/Hall.

What I am stating is that Bowers gives him another option. A 40 year old QB, is not going to do what these QBS of today do, and run for a first down when all are covered. And Bowers is not a bad blocker. I watched him at Georgia many times. He is no ordinary HB/TE. 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, Tony The Wiz said:

What I am stating is that Bowers gives him another option.

So does Ruckert.

You don't draft "another option" at 10 overall.

You draft game-changing weapons.  

His fans seem to think Bowers is that.  I have my doubts, especially compared to a #1 quality WR.

[slats]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Dude.  I get where you are coming from but if you fail to see how Bowers is a massive upgrade over Lazard, maybe you didn't watch the games last year?  Jeff Smith would have been a massive upgrade over Lazard last season.  I am hopeful for a bounce back, but c'mon.  I totally get wanting one of the big 3 WR first.  I am strangely a little scared of Odunze, but I totally understand that argument.

I saw it, but I expect a solid bounce back from him when he’s back in the slot and has Rodgers throwing him the ball. Jets also have Gipson as a more traditional slot, he might have a little more speed and wiggle than even Brock Bowers, too. 
 
I can do the whole repeat myself thing that @Lith’s reluctant to do, but suffice to say that spending the tenth pick in the draft on an undersized TE who either chose not to test athletically, or wasn’t healthy enough to, gets me a little agitated. The argument that we’d be doing it to upgrade our dump off game doesn’t make it any better. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

1 minute ago, Tony The Wiz said:

What I am stating is that Bowers gives him another option. A 40 year old QB, is not going to do what these QBS of today do, and run for a first down when all are covered. And Bowers is not a bad blocker. I watched him at Georgia many times. He is no ordinary HB/TE. 

One thing Aaron can’t do is block for himself on 3rd and long.

He doesn’t need Bowers to move the ball and score points.

Freaking TE Robert Tonyan scored double digit TDs as a Packer a few years ago.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

10 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

I'm no high IQ football guy like a lot of you but in my simplistic approach

You are football Einstein compared to Rex Hogan, Zach Wilson’s supposed #1 fan

[TuscanyTile2]

51 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Virtually begging at this point for the Colts to jump to #9 for Bowers.

The Bowers "discussion" is already more exhausting than the 3+ years of wrangling over ZW.

I wish his name was "Zach Bowers", just to make people even more upset.

#BringTheChaos!

[The Crusher]

2 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

You are football Einstein compared to Rex Hogan, Zach Wilson’s supposed #1 fan

I'm the other Albert.

 

 

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

I saw it, but I expect a solid bounce back from him when he’s back in the slot and has Rodgers throwing him the ball. Jets also have Gipson as a more traditional slot, he might have a little more speed and wiggle than even Brock Bowers, too. 
 
I can do the whole repeat myself thing that @Lith’s reluctant to do, but suffice to say that spending the tenth pick in the draft on an undersized TE who either chose not to test athletically, or wasn’t healthy enough to, gets me a little agitated. The argument that we’d be doing it to upgrade our dump off game doesn’t make it any better. 

Totally get it.  I think the argument is that it is not a "dump off game."  It is a viable part of an offense that nets tons of easy yards by selecting the easy option.  I share being dubious that Hackett and these clowns will get there, but if Rodgers is embracing it, Bowers is the kind of guy that can give easy yards that will put pressure on a D.  I assume the teams know exactly how fast he is, but I think we have beaten that one to death as much as anything.

[#27TheDominator]

7 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

One thing Aaron can’t do is block for himself on 3rd and long.

He doesn’t need Bowers to move the ball and score points.

Freaking TE Robert Tonyan scored double digit TDs as a Packer a few years ago.

Robert Tonyan having double digit TDs seems like a strange argument against Brock Bowers.

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Totally get it.  I think the argument is that it is not a "dump off game."  It is a viable part of an offense that nets tons of easy yards by selecting the easy option.  I share being dubious that Hackett and these clowns will get there, but if Rodgers is embracing it, Bowers is the kind of guy that can give easy yards that will put pressure on a D.  I assume the teams know exactly how fast he is, but I think we have beaten that one to death as much as anything.

Yep and take focus off Breece and Garret so they can FEAST! I like FEASTING!!

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Yep and take focus off Breece and Garret so they can FEAST! I like FEASTING!!

Crusher = "Feast Lightning"

[The Crusher]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Crusher = "Feast Lightning"

I do have a pretty impressive first step in my buffet game. Providing I'm only one step away from the buffet. 

[Gastineau Lives]

37 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Bowers is not a good blocker and he’s undersized 

He is a good blocker. And if he puts on two pounds he's the same size as LaPorta. If the puts on more he's Kittle. He's also bigger than both or our linebackers and one of our defensive ends. How many times are you going to repeat the same ignorant sh*t? Until it becomes true?

[thebuzzardman]

1 hour ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Virtually begging at this point for the Colts to jump to #9 for Bowers.

The Bowers "discussion" is already more exhausting than the 3+ years of wrangling over ZW.

The continued arguing about Bowers for 3 more years is my main rooting interest in the Jets drafting him

[T0mShane]

Don’t think of him as a tight end. Think of him as a checkdown specialist.

[#27TheDominator]

32 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Similar to Bowers, Amaro was left completely uncovered in college (in TT’s shotgun spread attack)

It’s a bit easier to catch passes when there aren’t any defenders within 10 yards of you 

Bowers is Jim Thorpe compared to Amaro in terms of athletic profile, but the bulk of his touches were manufactured at or behind the LOS

Another strange argument.  I get the manufactured touches and the worries about so much starting behind the LOS, but Georgia's offense centered around Bowers, but teams left him completely uncovered?  For three years?

[y2k8]

 

Brock Bowers sounds like the name of the character Dirk Diggler created in Boogie Nights.

[thebuzzardman]

If  you support this website, Bowers is the kind of post generating pick that will help it exponentially

[RevisIsland610]

7 minutes ago, thebuzzardman said:

The continued arguing about Bowers for 3 more years is my main rooting interest in the Jets drafting him

Zach is gone. We need his replacement. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

9 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Another strange argument.  I get the manufactured touches and the worries about so much starting behind the LOS, but Georgia's offense centered around Bowers, but teams left him completely uncovered?  For three years?

IDK just go and watch all his touches and targets from this season.

There are a million quick screens and dumpoffs to the flat.

When he is actually lined up detached from the formation, there are a ton of free releases and plays where he's virtually ignored in the secondary.

If you're asking why defenses didn't pay more attention to him, IDK.

I think one answer is college defenses are poorly coached, poorly coordinated, and generally unsophisticated.

I mean look at the final scores in college football any given week, or the pt spreads and over / unders.

It's a joke compared to the NFL.

[TuscanyTile2]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Don’t think of him as a tight end. Think of him as a checkdown specialist.

With all the specialization in coaching these days I'm surprised "Checkdown Coordinator" isn't a thing.

[Larz]

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Don’t think of him as a tight end. Think of him as a checkdown specialist.

Think of him as a 240 lb Breece Hall

[thebuzzardman]

1 minute ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

IDK just go and watch all his touches and targets from this season.

There are a million quick screens and dumpoffs to the flat.

When he is actually lined up detached from the formation, there are a ton of free releases and plays where he's virtually ignored in the secondary.

If you're asking why defenses didn't pay more attention to him, IDK.

I think one answer is college defenses are poorly coached, poorly coordinated, and generally unsophisticated.

Good points. Brock Bowers should probably be a 6th rounder. 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Larz said:

Think of him as a 240 lb Breece Hall

Breece Hall came back faster from a torn ACL than Bowers did from a pulled hamstring

[Maynard13]

36 minutes ago, slats said:

I saw it, but I expect a solid bounce back from him when he’s back in the slot and has Rodgers throwing him the ball. Jets also have Gipson as a more traditional slot, he might have a little more speed and wiggle than even Brock Bowers, too. 
 
I can do the whole repeat myself thing that @Lith’s reluctant to do, but suffice to say that spending the tenth pick in the draft on an undersized TE who either chose not to test athletically, or wasn’t healthy enough to, gets me a little agitated. The argument that we’d be doing it to upgrade our dump off game doesn’t make it any better. 

JD wants Malik Washington in the slot or a simialr WR in round 4.  DEpendant on who he takes in round 1, JD will also draft another X/Y WR in round 1 or 3.  Its a given.  There is absolutely no need for TE that high in the draft. Maybe one in round 5 ,6, or 7.