JD finally delivers, the OLine is elite

[BigRy56]

The Jets offense isn't even close to firing on all cylinders yet. So the idea that the OL is grading out so highly against two tough defenses to open the season is very promising

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, Rhg1084 said:

I mean we got 3 young blue chip pieces in Tippman AVT and Olu, not every position can be an All Pro. Not sure what else you want?

Simpson is only 27 and here for 2 years.  If he works out, he could stick around as well.  I doubt there is any OLins in the league that has all five spots manned by good, young players.

[JKlecko]

1 hour ago, Rhg1084 said:

I mean we got 3 young blue chip pieces in Tippman AVT and Olu, not every position can be an All Pro. Not sure what else you want?

Yes, we do finally have the core of the OL, but as I pointed out in an earlier post, AVT may not be with the team past next season.  I'd also rather have bookend OTs and then one IOL as the core, not one OT and two IOL.  IOL are easier to find in FA and can be drafted in the middle and lower rounds and developed.  With OTs, one mostly has to get them in the first 2 rounds.

The Jets are not going to be able to be big players in FA next offseason, so to keep their OL strong they are going to have to do one of three things at RT: 1) re-sign Moses; 2) draft a RT early; 3) pray that Warren or Mitchell finally develop.  You know as well as I that even if Fashanu plays close to Smith's level, if the RT is the weak link on the OL, opposing teams can put their best pass rusher on that side, and our passing offense could come to a screeching halt.

I'm not killing JD, but if the Giants hadn't turned down his trade up proposal, things would be much worse, not only for this season, but going forward.  I get being excited about how the OL is playing this season in terms of pass protection.  It's been a long time since we've seen that from the Jets, but it's premature to say that the OL is fixed.  If both Smith and Moses go down at the same time, even if Fashanu plays at a high level, if Warren/Mitchell can't hack it at RT, the season could quickly go down the tubes.

[Bronx]

Good. Now work on creating bigger holes for the two-set backs.

[Joe W. Namath]

1 hour ago, doitny said:

he is getting killed every time he runs up the middle into a wall. he doesnt have the body for it. 

Hes 5'11 220lbs.  He absolutely has the body for it.

[JKlecko]

1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

Nothing in the NFL is “long term” except proven coaching staffs and personal departments. Players turnover at a high rate and the key is to have players that can step in and mitigate damages in week 18+. Continuity along the OL is an old myth from a bygone era. 

Yes, turnover rate is higher.  Having players in the pipeline who can step in and mitigate damage or take over is important.  JD hasn't achieved yet.  That is the form of continuity.  You see teams like the Ravens, Eagles, Niners and others who have a starting OL go down, and the backup comes in and plays at the same level or only slightly less vs the Jets.  Meanwhile, the Jets never seem to have any OL depth that can come in and play at a high level.  Fashanu may be the first in decades.

[Joe W. Namath]

A symptom of the d-i-s-e-a-s-e is coming out here.  You talk about how good the line is and suddenly, jet fans are talking about how we cant keep these guys together for years to come.

Who cares!!!!!!

Nothing matters other than these next 15 games.

[JKlecko]

1 hour ago, doitny said:

he is getting killed every time he runs up the middle into a wall. he doesnt have the body for it. 

I think the bottom line is that this team doesn't have the OL to run up the gut. I can't speak about Simpson definitively, but I know that both Tippman and AVT were drafted because of their lateral agility, ability to pull and to get to the second level to block.  They weren't drafted because they were maulers and could move opposing DL off the LOS.  Just a year or two ago, the Jets were considered an outside zone run team. Now all of a sudden they're trying to be an inside zone run team, and imo that's stupid.  They don't have the OL for that.

[Barry McCockinner]

edit: sorry, wrong thread

[JKlecko]

10 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Simpson is only 27 and here for 2 years.  If he works out, he could stick around as well.  I doubt there is any OLins in the league that has all five spots manned by good, young players.

He could stick around, and hopefully will if he plays well, but with Sauce, Wilson, JJ, Breece and AVT to extend, I have my doubts that can or will happen.

I said that I don't think there are any teams who drafted 5 young OL within 2 years and they will be together for 10 years.  Teams that consistently have good OLs, either do a better job of finding them in the draft and developing them or do a better job in FA, so that they continuously replace players and still play at a high level.  The Jets are there on D, but not on offense yet, not even close.

[JKlecko]

2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I see Jets fans on twitter arguing this is just hand fighting. It was at one point but clearly evolved to holding. I know Sauce gets a lot of BS for holding from people who just don't understand the rules but this is 100% holding and should have been a flag. Arguing that it is not will only make those voices complaining about things that aren't holding louder.

 

Yes, this was about as blatant and flagrant as it gets.  We dodged a bullet on that one.

[THE BARON]

2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Pass protection has been very good. Run blocking leaves something to be desired, although I think that will improve especially as we get more creative on early downs.

All the more reason to throw the ball in 1st down more often.  Obviously, they are trying to establish the running game to spare Rodgers from having to do it all.  Fine.  But if the run aint working to score points, don't keep at it until the game is out of hand.  

Rodgers has a good arm and they are protecting him.  Let him play football. 

[Darnold's Forehead]

Glad to see Simpson performing well.  A stark contrast to Tomlinson’s first game here when he was getting thrown around and embarrassed left and right.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

2 hours ago, JiFtheOracle said:

Landry was the only player to get a sack?  Interesting it was credited to the TipppYster.  One looked more to be a coverage sack and Rodgers kind of look behind him and gave up on the play.  I cant really remember the other, did the pressure come from the inside?

Yes, inside from AVT to the gap between Tippmann and Simpson.  Tippmann failed to pick up so it was a clean sack as Rodgers tried to step up into the pocket to get Garrett on a crossing route.

Miscommunication versus getting beat.  

[Joe W. Namath]

12 minutes ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

Glad to see Simpson performing well.  A stark contrast to Tomlinson’s first game here when he was getting thrown around and embarrassed left and right.

Tomlinson was one of the worst players weve ever had.  A complete turnstile.

An expensive Adrian Clarke.

[rangerous]

3 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

 

 

 

Rodgers can bake a cake back there with all the time he has to throw

i wouldn't say they're elite just yet.  they have certainly improved over last season and even over the first game.  let's see how they are mid season.

[DJF71]

Possible elite pass blocking and possibly the 32nd ranked run blocking?  That won't work. 

[Rhg1084]

23 minutes ago, JKlecko said:

He could stick around, and hopefully will if he plays well, but with Sauce, Wilson, JJ, Breece and AVT to extend, I have my doubts that can or will happen.

I said that I don't think there are any teams who drafted 5 young OL within 2 years and they will be together for 10 years.  Teams that consistently have good OLs, either do a better job of finding them in the draft and developing them or do a better job in FA, so that they continuously replace players and still play at a high level.  The Jets are there on D, but not on offense yet, not even close.

Dude just enjoy the OLine finally being good and stop worrying about them long term. They have young guys under team control on the line they will be fine.

[carlito1171]

Once Rodgers gets back up to speed and he trusts the OL to consistently give him the extra second needed to extend the play, he's gonna let it rip something serious!!! 

[DoubleDown]

The biggest question mark for the offensive line going into the season was durability.  It's Week 2.  I wouldn't start taking any victory laps quite yet.

With that said, the pass protection has been solid thus far.  The run blocking against the Titans was good.  The run blocking against the Niners was quite bad.

There is alot of football left to be played.

[Doggin94it]

3 hours ago, JiFtheOracle said:

Landry was the only player to get a sack?  Interesting it was credited to the TipppYster.  One looked more to be a coverage sack and Rodgers kind of look behind him and gave up on the play.  I cant really remember the other, did the pressure come from the inside?

 

46 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Yes, inside from AVT to the gap between Tippmann and Simpson.  Tippmann failed to pick up so it was a clean sack as Rodgers tried to step up into the pocket to get Garrett on a crossing route.

Miscommunication versus getting beat.  

So, thing is there was another sack on a different play, too - right after the fumble in the second quarter (the play where Rodgers wanted to throw quickly to his right, a Titan jumped into the passing lane, he pulled it down and went left, and that let Landry loop ALL the way around Moses and come back up to grab Rodgers from behind.

(8:35 - 2nd) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers sacked at NYJ 7 for -5 yards (H.Landry).

The pressure through Tippmann was the second sack of the game, in the third Quarter

(9:21 - 3rd) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers sacked at NYJ 25 for -7 yards (H.Landry).

I'm not sure why they're saying there was only 1 sack, but the game log clearly shows both, and I remember watching both

 

[Claymation]

 

[Claymation]

 

[carlito1171]

19 hours ago, Warfish said:

I'd like to see a re-think on the running game, with more varied use of Hall & Allen, as opposed to Hall, Hall, Hall, Hall, Hall, oh Hall looks tired, Allen, Hall, Hall, Hall.

I like Hall, alot, but we're burning him this year, especially now while the run blocking is not as "elite" as the pass blocking.

A bit more varied use,  i.e. give Allen a few first carries, don't always run on 1st down, mix up the use a bit, would I think be helpful to both RB's and the O-line.  We have what appears to be a 2nd legit RB weapon, lets get use out of him too.  

100%

Our rushing strategy is too predictable. Defense is swarming the point of attack without having to worry about something off tendency

[Jet Nut]

19 hours ago, Warfish said:

I'd like to see a re-think on the running game, with more varied use of Hall & Allen, as opposed to Hall, Hall, Hall, Hall, Hall, oh Hall looks tired, Allen, Hall, Hall, Hall.

I like Hall, alot, but we're burning him this year, especially now while the run blocking is not as "elite" as the pass blocking.

A bit more varied use,  i.e. give Allen a few first carries, don't always run on 1st down, mix up the use a bit, would I think be helpful to both RB's and the O-line.  We have what appears to be a 2nd legit RB weapon, lets get use out of him too.  

Hall has 14 and 16 carrys in 2 games.  
He’s the #1 back

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Hall has 14 and 16 carrys in 2 games.  
He’s the #1 back

It’s not the number of carries it’s the circumstances they use him and the formations.  Always run him on 1st and 10 in a vanilla formation.  Would prefer if they were more creative so when they run him the d doesn’t know it.  The first td for allen was great b/c they used hall as a decoy and the d was fooled.  

[Jet Nut]

6 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

It’s not the number of carries it’s the circumstances they use him and the formations.  Always run him on 1st and 10 in a vanilla formation.  Would prefer if they were more creative so when they run him the d doesn’t know it.  The first td for allen was great b/c they used hall as a decoy and the d was fooled.  

He’s a #1 back.  30 carrys in 2 games isn’t too much work.  
What does run him when the D doesn’t know it even mean?  I bet every D assumes he’s back there on every down.  

[Bobby816]

We just played 2 of some of the best Front 7s in the NFL.

[Warfish]

35 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Hall has 14 and 16 carrys in 2 games.  
He’s the #1 back

The current split is 79% Hall, 21% Allen.

I would contend that the division between Hall and Allen should be closer to 60/40 than it has been, and that the play-calling needs to be more varied.  We've been very predictable thus far IMO, especially in the run game.

I believe we'd be more successful in the running game if we do these things.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The current split is 79% Hall, 21% Allen.

I would contend that the division between Hall and Allen should be closer to 60/40 than it has been, and that the play-calling needs to be more varied.  We've been very predictable thus far IMO, especially in the run game.

I believe we'd be more successful in the running game if we do these things.

In theory yes, but it’s hard to say. You’d also like to give your lead back a chance to get into a rhythm. Of course that’s something you discover in retrospect after it’s worked, not while it’s not going well, lol.

A more subtle thing that I did like was Allen getting a couple targets in the passing game. He’s not the receiver Hall is - few backs are - but it’s important that he isn’t fully ignored in that area.

The subtle importance is that it can’t be like Hackett lighting up a big neon sign that says “We’re running the ball here, and probably up the gut at that!” every time Allen joins the huddle. There are probably a number of dumb DCs in the league, but they aren’t all that dumb. 

[Claymation]

 

[Jet Nut]

23 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The current split is 79% Hall, 21% Allen.

I would contend that the division between Hall and Allen should be closer to 60/40 than it has been, and that the play-calling needs to be more varied.  We've been very predictable thus far IMO, especially in the run game.

I believe we'd be more successful in the running game if we do these things.

Don’t think they’ve been predictable.  Hard not to be other than running every time on certain downs or running behind the same every OLman every time.  Who you run, Hall or Allen doesn’t make the running game less predictable.  Seems to me, as long as I can remember going back to Freeman’s rookie year that unless you’re a “generational” type rb you earn your Carrie’s, they’re not handed to you if there’s anyone of worth in front of you.  Hall is in the discussion for most productive back for the season, Allen’s a 4th round rb.  
Patience, we’re only talking a handful of carrys to 60/40.  Would help Allen’s totals if we played with leads and we can get to a Curtis Martin/LaMont Jordan split.

[LIJetsFan]

20 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Pass protection has been very good. Run blocking leaves something to be desired, although I think that will improve especially as we get more creative on early downs.

To be balanced, AR8 getting the ball out quickly might be where the lion's share of the credit falls.  

[Warfish]

40 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Don’t think they’ve been predictable.  Hard not to be other than running every time on certain downs or running behind the same every OLman every time.  Who you run, Hall or Allen doesn’t make the running game less predictable.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on these points.

40 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 Seems to me, as long as I can remember going back to Freeman’s rookie year that unless you’re a “generational” type rb you earn your Carrie’s, they’re not handed to you if there’s anyone of worth in front of you.  Hall is in the discussion for most productive back for the season, Allen’s a 4th round rb.

Hall is running at a 3.9 YPC, Allen is running at a 5.1 YPC.  Rule of small sample size applies, of course, but Allen has been the superior running so far this year.

In no way am I advocating for replacing Hall as the #1 RB.  I'm one of this site's biggest (and longest) Hall supporters.

We simply disagree on the utilization, and predictability, of the rushing O (and O overall) so far.  My belief is we could stand to see less predictability leading to more productivity for both Hall and Allen.  This is a criticism primarily of the O-Co.

40 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 Patience, we’re only talking a handful of carrys to 60/40. 

Patience indeed, as the O-line clearly still needs time as well to get on the same page and run block at a high level.  

[EM31]

These kinds of threads make me nervous given our past history of Jets fans not being allowed to get (or keep) nice things.

Right now the OL has been good which probably translates to "elite" given the steaming pile of crap that it has been in recent memory.

We have the QB who can loosen up defenses with quick strikes and (I am with Warfish) it looks like we have two very very strong running backs where we would benefit from a 1A/1B split as opposed to 1A/table scraps split.  Last year the league ganged up on Breece because they knew we could not throw it.  This year they are ganging up on Breece because they know our offensive coordinator is as predictable as a piece of cardboard.

C'mon Hackett.  Open up the game with some quick throws and running plays to Allen with 2 backs in the back field.  If that does not open up huge holes for Hall I don't know what will.

Allen is impressive in a phone booth but Hall can go to the house on any play.  Hall is better.  Nice conversation to have though.