Jets to not draft OL early, Ducasse told he'll be competing for the RT spot

[RutgersJetFan]

per draftinsider

I’ve been told all along the New York Jets won’t look to shore up the offensive tackle spot in the early rounds of this years draft. Further proof came last night when I was told by several Jets sources the team has told Vladimir Ducasse he will be competing for the starting job at right tackle this summer. Ducasse, who struggled with the play book last year, has been training for the position in the off season.

Also from Friday's notes, fwiw:

Why was the Jets offensive line so bad last year and why did so many players underachieve? I was told part of the problem is the playbook was so thick and the blocking schemes so complicated many of the offensive lineman were over thinking all season.

[afosomf]

LOL

[denden29]

Ducasse is lost he doesn't understand who to block. If he starts it will be like Adrien Clarke chasing the guy from behind he was suppose to block while he crushes our QB. Sorry Ducasse doesn't have the football IQ and I don't see that changing.

If they could cut him and save money they might, but because they want to save face about a wasted 2nd round pick, they’re going to push this guy out there. Sorry I'm no NFL scout but if this guy is starting I think I'll cry.

[T0mShane]

Which, of course, means they're drafting an OL in the first. That sneaky Jets front office!

[tparich]

Maybe we should just start drafting from Harvard

[afosomf]

here is the difference between Bellie's drafting and Tanny's

They both suck but at least Bellie cuts bait fairly quick, while Tanny keeps ze junk forever

[Lil Bit Special]

Its 2 months before the draft. It doesnt matter whats said or written. Until the Jets make a selection, no one knows who they're drafting.

[Sperm Edwards]

Ducasse is lost he doesn't understand who to block. If he starts it will be like Adrien Clarke chasing the guy from behind he was suppose to block while he crushes our QB. Sorry Ducasse doesn't have the football IQ and I don't see that changing.

If they could cut him and save money they might, but because they want to save face about a wasted 2nd round pick, they’re going to push this guy out there. Sorry I'm no NFL scout but if this guy is starting I think I'll cry.

I have zero confidence in Ducasse based on what we've seen so far.

There are two things I can think of that allow me to believe this isn't a 100% automatic disaster in waiting:

1) If I was told that Pouha was going to enter the season as the starting NT - before he was thrust into the spot due to injury, and only due to injury like he was - I would have felt equally pessimistic and so would everyone else here. He went from trash to excellent without any of us noticing significant or even incremental improvements prior to the Jenkins signing, and he couldn't beat out friggin' DRob to play NT in Mangini's strict 3-4. It is arguable that Hunter is a better starter at RT than DRob was at NT, and Pouha still couldn't take the job away or convince the team he could start a year later (obviously, since we instead went out to get Jenkins).

2) Ducasse was known to be a project. A project requiring so much catch-up I don't think should be drafted in round 2 generally, but the life of a total project who pans out in the end is this: is totally unready and looks like garbage, looks like slightly less garbage, is serviceable, is good, is very good, etc. One hopes that each of these steps doesn't take a full season, but he jumped right into complex zone blocking which has a learning curve even for some good, established veterans. To compound things, in year 2 (when he was supposed to make big stride from his awful year 1) there was no off-season until late July. For someone who was such a project from the get-go, that is not enough time.

The odds are he'll probably still suck, but it isn't exactly the same story as a bust like Gholston who was expected to be a pass-rushing demon pretty much right away. They certainly didn't think he was going to take this long, or there would have been no "competition" for the LG spot when he was a rookie and they very well might have stuck with Faneca for another year.

I think they'll still bring in someone else to start or compete along the OL, whether through FA or through somewhere in the draft.

[faba]

well I can not see us using a high pick on the O/l. Ducasse meet Vernon as far as i am concerned.

[Larz]

no named sources or direct quotes

garbage

[sirlancemehlot]

I have zero confidence in Ducasse based on what we've seen so far.

There are two things I can think of that allow me to believe this isn't a 100% automatic disaster in waiting:

1) If I was told that Pouha was going to enter the season as the starting NT - before he was thrust into the spot due to injury, and only due to injury like he was - I would have felt equally pessimistic and so would everyone else here. He went from trash to excellent without any of us noticing significant or even incremental improvements prior to the Jenkins signing, and he couldn't beat out friggin' DRob to play NT in Mangini's strict 3-4. It is arguable that Hunter is a better starter at RT than DRob was at NT, and Pouha still couldn't take the job away or convince the team he could start a year later (obviously, since we instead went out to get Jenkins).

2) Ducasse was known to be a project. A project requiring so much catch-up I don't think should be drafted in round 2 generally, but the life of a total project who pans out in the end is this: is totally unready and looks like garbage, looks like slightly less garbage, is serviceable, is good, is very good, etc. One hopes that each of these steps doesn't take a full season, but he jumped right into complex zone blocking which has a learning curve even for some good, established veterans. To compound things, in year 2 (when he was supposed to make big stride from his awful year 1) there was no off-season until late July. For someone who was such a project from the get-go, that is not enough time.

The odds are he'll probably still suck, but it isn't exactly the same story as a bust like Gholston who was expected to be a pass-rushing demon pretty much right away. They certainly didn't think he was going to take this long, or there would have been no "competition" for the LG spot when he was a rookie and they very well might have stuck with Faneca for another year.

I think they'll still bring in someone else to start or compete along the OL, either through FA or through the mid-late rounds of the draft.

I can appreciate your willingness to still see a glimmer of hope in Vlad's future. I'd love to see the incremental improvement and I'd love to see him become a contributor. What makes it so tough to get behind him is how bad he looks on te field. Hunter gets beaten, but he's battling when it happens. Ducasse seems to be utterly confused and overmatched to the point where he's a huge detriment to the team--not only getting his backs killed, but also getting his fellow lineman taken out. He just looks so incredibly awful. Even in Florham Park last year, the guy was getting schooled by practice squad guys and spent most of his time on the ground. I honestly think they should try to convert himm to DLine and see if they can get a serviceable rotation guy out of him.

[New York Mick]

Maybe we should just start drafting from Harvard

Good idea

[derp]

There's a very real chance this is a smokescreen, can't believe everything that gets reported this time of year. Also not confident Ducasse will actually develop into anything, as we all know he looks awful. Not impossible that he ends up being good, he was very raw, but I'm not going to hold my breath and don't think any Jets fan will. However, telling him he'll be able to compete for a spot doesn't mean much. If they draft a guy he'll be an unproven rookie, has to compete with somebody. Personally I'd rather they try to get some kind of veteran in at the spot to drafting a guy, but doing nothing would be a huge mistake.

[SoFlaJets]

I swear I'm losing interest in football and the Jets in particular-it's THESE kinds of things that just drive me insane-I mean how, HOW can they NOT see perhaps the worst offensive lineman that the Jets have maybe EVER drafted-this guy has no football instincts at all-how can they not see this?

[denden29]

If Ducasse were a 6th round draft pick would he still be with the team? Nate Garner and Jacob Bender worse than Ducasse? I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time nor the last, but I'd bet the farm Ducasse is not only an ex-Jets next year 2013, but out of the NFL for good.

[dbatesman]

Also from Friday's notes, fwiw:

I don't have the PFF numbers on pressures, but we were 8th in Adjusted Sack Rate in 2010 with the same OC running the same system.

[TNJet]

Oh I get it, so the only guy in the league worse than Wayne Hunter could be our next RT? Great! In other news the Packers are set to release Chad Clifton. Can he play RT???

[T0mShane]

I don't have the PFF numbers on pressures, but we were 8th in Adjusted Sack Rate in 2010 with the same OC running the same system.

Yeah, it's kinda hard to figure how an offense that never threw the ball beyond 10 yards can have a blocking scheme that would be considered especially complex. Reeks of revisionist bullsh*t.

[Ape]

.

[Sperm Edwards]

I can appreciate your willingness to still see a glimmer of hope in Vlad's future. I'd love to see the incremental improvement and I'd love to see him become a contributor. What makes it so tough to get behind him is how bad he looks on te field. Hunter gets beaten, but he's battling when it happens. Ducasse seems to be utterly confused and overmatched to the point where he's a huge detriment to the team--not only getting his backs killed, but also getting his fellow lineman taken out. He just looks so incredibly awful. Even in Florham Park last year, the guy was getting schooled by practice squad guys and spent most of his time on the ground. I honestly think they should try to convert himm to DLine and see if they can get a serviceable rotation guy out of him.

Read the first line of my post. The rest of it is BS filler trying to rationalize why there isn't 100% certainty that giving him a shot isn't a total waste of time.

He would have been a project even with normal blocking, just getting used to defenders who are bigger, stronger, faster, and have (compared to the college players he faced) perfect technique and know how to create and use leverage. It was much more difficult with the Jets blocking scheme and then on top of that the off-season where he should have made big strides was cut short.

Now none of this means he will be anything that he wasn't before. But I'm only saying it's possible that someone who might have taken a step forward in year 2 didn't because of the complexity of the system and most of camp being eliminated. Some work through that and advance despite adversity. Some require more instruction. Some guys are just late bloomers who eventually get it in a big way like Bushrod. The unfortunate reality, though, is that most who start out bad never do get it together and continue to be bad or worse, until they are eventually let go.

In any event I'm merely outlining the logic as to why there is the possibility of hope and not really a belief he'll be good.

Hope for the best.

[RutgersJetFan]

I don't have the PFF numbers on pressures, but we were 8th in Adjusted Sack Rate in 2010 with the same OC running the same system.

I think Pauline means more the drop-off than the line being terrible, which it wasn't. We went from having the best line in the league to middle of the pack within one season, but blaming it on Schott or Callahan is kind of lame considering it was just as much, if not more personnel related. Mangold being out certainly plays its part as does the downgrade from Woody to Hunter, and Turner going down wound up being a disaster. Moore finally lost a step and Brick had an off-year. The Jets have really only put in the effort of developing one late-round guy over the past couple seasons, and you can't really maintain having an elite unit to any degree if you're not hedging your bets across a few. Sanchez certainly played his part in all of it as well (see: entire Denver game).

That said, there was still just a ton of weird sh*t happening every week with endless stupidity and snowballing that can't quantifiably be measured on the coaching end. End of the day though, that's football. It still all comes down to the QB. No team is going to have a top o-line every year, it's just not something that's going to happen with injuries, turnover, and all-out parity. You look at PFF's top OL's from this year and 3 of the top 5 weren't even in last year's top 10.

[BroadwayJ667]

This is a bizarre story anyway. You can find a really good right tackle in the 3rd round. Most of the time in the third round it's the left tackles who would need work to play the blind side. So they have talent but aren't yet there to play the left side so you kick em to the right. Matt McCants from Alabama-Birmingham comes to mind.

Anyway I'm convinced now they should look at Stephen Hill from Ga Tech in the first round. He'd be an asset to whoever plays QB for the Jets this season.

[RutgersJetFan]

Read the first line of my post. The rest of it is BS filler trying to rationalize why there isn't 100% certainty that giving him a shot isn't a total waste of time.

He would have been a project even with normal blocking, just getting used to defenders who are bigger, stronger, faster, and have (compared to the college players he faced) perfect technique and know how to create and use leverage. It was much more difficult with the Jets blocking scheme and then on top of that the off-season where he should have made big strides was cut short.

Now none of this means he will be anything that he wasn't before. But I'm only saying it's possible that someone who might have taken a step forward in year 2 didn't because of the complexity of the system and most of camp being eliminated. Some work through that and advance despite adversity. Some require more instruction. Some guys are just late bloomers who eventually get it in a big way like Bushrod. The unfortunate reality, though, is that most who start out bad never do get it together and continue to be bad or worse, until they are eventually let go.

In any event I'm merely outlining the logic as to why there is the possibility of hope and not really a belief he'll be good.

Hope for the best.

The problem is that it's such a total miscalculation and failure on the coaching end. You don't use second rounders on strongside blockers so you can watch them trip over their feet for two years on the interior, only to switch them back anyways. This should have been done two summers ago the minute he couldn't compete with Slauson, especially with Turner on the roster. Complete waste of time.

[dbatesman]

I think Pauline means more the drop-off than the line being terrible, which it wasn't. We went from having the best line in the league to middle of the pack within one season, but blaming it on Schott or Callahan is kind of lame considering it was just as much, if not more personnel related. Mangold being out certainly plays its part as does the downgrade from Woody to Hunter, and Turner going down wound up being a disaster. Moore finally lost a step and Brick had an off-year. The Jets have really only put in the effort of developing one late-round guy over the past couple seasons, and you can't really maintain having an elite unit to any degree if you're not hedging your bets across a few. Sanchez certainly played his part in all of it as well (see: entire Denver game).

That said, there was still just a ton of weird sh*t happening every week with endless stupidity and snowballing that can't quantifiably be measured on the coaching end. End of the day though, that's football. It still all comes down to the QB. No team is going to have a top o-line every year, it's just not something that's going to happen with injuries, turnover, and all-out parity. You look at PFF's top OL's from this year and 3 of the top 5 weren't even in last year's top 10.

Right. I mean, Mangold's injury was a problem and Hunter is a disaster, but until and unless Sanchez can read a blitz and avoid sh*tting his pants in the face of pressure all this crap about improving the OL is just rearranging deck chairs on the Minnow.

[RutgersJetFan]

Right. I mean, Mangold's injury was a problem and Hunter is a disaster, but until and unless Sanchez can read a blitz and avoid sh*tting his pants in the face of pressure all this crap about improving the OL is just rearranging deck chairs on the Minnow.

Yeah, it's kind of hard to rip Tannenbaum for willing to sacrifice a slight downgrade on the OL because he thought his quarterback would actually improve. Said it when it happened and I'll say it again, Wayne Hunter wasn't the one who double-clutched against Baltimore on a jail break.

[T0mShane]

Yeah, it's kind of hard to rip Tannenbaum for willing to sacrifice a slight downgrade on the OL because he thought his quarterback would actually improve. Said it when it happened and I'll say it again, Wayne Hunter wasn't the one who double-clutched against Baltimore on a jail break.

You dudes would know: what's the mathematical probability of all five offensive linemen suddenly forgetting how to block vs. the probability of a young QB being handed a bigger piece of the offense totally ******* up said offense?

[RutgersJetFan]

You dudes would know: what's the mathematical probability of all five offensive linemen suddenly forgetting how to block vs. the probability of a young QB being handed a bigger piece of the offense totally ******* up said offense?

I'd say the latter is more of an indirect effect towards the former than they are uncorrelated. When the QB is that bad and things have to be changed to the umpteenth degree week to week, it's obviously going to interrupt the flow of things up front. It wasn't too hard to realize early on that rushing 6 and making us put Mulligan in would **** Sanchez up. That first New England game changed everything. You knew the book was out on Sanchez and the offense right there, and teams just copied it for the rest of the season. Stack the line, take away the short routes, take away Santonio and dare him to beat you deep. That has to be completely disheartening to all the other guys in the locker room when it's that obvious. But it's still hard to definitively explain the drop off in 3 of the 5 (Moore losing a step was to be expected), when Mangold was still amazing. With Brick I think it was the combination of the offense not being able to use Hunter on the weakside like they used to do often, Slauson leveling off, and the guy just being due for a down year. TFY also reported that Rex wants the offense lighter with more reliance on speed next year, which works to his advantage. It's a real shame that the Jets are so tight on money because this is an excellent market for guards this year and the perfect time to put in a real long-term solution at LG, which would solve so many depth problems in a heartbeat.

[jason423]

Other than the early season breakdowns of Hunter I think the one that had to concern the Jets the most was Ferguson who kind of reverted back in 2007 mode. He was jumpy again before the snap. He played really stiff. Seemed to get confused alot. It was strange. Early in the year I thought they were actually running behind him alot and I thought he looked good. By mid season he looked pretty bad in all facets of the game. I cant blame that on Sanchez.

The overall performance in terms of sacks for the line was pretty much average. It had been that way almost all season if you tracked the team statsitically. So it was not that terrible. What made the sacks glaring was Sanchez. Other than the double pump in the Raven game and the wild happy feet in Denver I dont think he was a major cause of alot of the sacks. He just made the sacks look worse because as Ive said before hes a Tecmo Bowl QB. He never steps up in the pocket and has zero awareness of the rush. Its why he fumbles so much. Ive never seen a guy look so unprepared so many times from a sack given up by his right tackle. Its crazy. He should see the guy coming but hes so twisted back there its like he has two blindsides.

I can understand the complexity part perhaps being an excuse. The Jets dumbed things down offensively the last few years because they thought the QB could not handle it. This year they tried to do more and maybe it hurt them especially if the QB is identifying wrong people at the line for his guys. I tend to also think the Jets were just not well conditioned this season. Rex is saying the guys need to cut weight to play faster but I think its was the lockout that hurt them. You have a team whose key players have played 19 games two years in a row. Thats more than any other team in the NFL. The Jets dont have a ton of talent. They dont have an Aaron Rodgers or a Haloti Ngata. Losing an entire year of offseason conditioning programs and access to care I think really hurt the Jets more than other teams this season. By mid year I think they were just toast. They were not in the football shape they needed to be in to compete at a high level. Hopefully this year they will be better off.

[bitonti]

agreed this sounds like smoke screen

but it makes sense on the level that Tanny doesn't give up on draft picks easily... and he makes deliberate depth chart decisions in the early offseason. Ducasse was the 6th OL on running downs and actually played 5-10 snaps a game this year. that's the pattern they had when they elevated Wayne Hunter to starter.

i was actually talking to Denden about this a week ago. don't be surprised if Ducasse is starting at some point. the internet gave up on the dude and the front office wants to start him. Sounds like the Jets, doesn't it?

[pointman]

April Fool's Day? Please?

[denden29]

agreed this sounds like smoke screen

but it makes sense on the level that Tanny doesn't give up on draft picks easily... and he makes deliberate depth chart decisions in the early offseason. Ducasse was the 6th OL on running downs and actually played 5-10 snaps a game this year. that's the pattern they had when they elevated Wayne Hunter to starter.

i was actually talking to Denden about this a week ago. don't be surprised if Ducasse is starting at some point. the internet gave up on the dude and the front office wants to start him. Sounds like the Jets, doesn't it?

Have to give you credit you were right on the money when you told me the Jets would not give up in Ducasse and would try and start him.

i cloud be wrong, my honest opinion of Ducasse is he has no idea what he's doing even when he came in on 5-10 snaps a game. I'll bet he's out of the league by 2013, any takers??

[KINGDIRK]

HAHAHAHHAH. So its Shottys fault that Ducasse sucks.....lol.....you cant make this $hit up

[#27TheDominator]

HAHAHAHHAH. So its Shottys fault that Ducasse sucks.....lol.....you cant make this $hit up

It is more likely than most of the blame that has been heaped upon him around here.

[stoicsentry]

The overall performance in terms of sacks for the line was pretty much average. It had been that way almost all season if you tracked the team statsitically. So it was not that terrible. What made the sacks glaring was Sanchez. Other than the double pump in the Raven game and the wild happy feet in Denver I dont think he was a major cause of alot of the sacks. He just made the sacks look worse because as Ive said before hes a Tecmo Bowl QB. He never steps up in the pocket and has zero awareness of the rush.

Funny you put it that way, because I had the opposite impression from watching him this year. I was actually surprised at how much he *did* step up into the pocket, and was almost kinda disappointed at that!

He looks better outside of the pocket when he's able to move around, direct traffic and create.

[Darrellegivesmeaboner#24]

Come on people...It is draft season, we should all know the drill by now: Never listen to teams draft intentions leading up to the draft. As for Ducasse, I sure hope they did tell him that...If he is going to be on the team next year anyway, I'd like for him to be motivated this offseason and come into camp in terrific shape. This coming season is likely going to make or break his career...