ELITE 6?

[prime21]

Cimini - 

 

The joy of six: There are six elite prospects in the draft, according to a consensus from four well-respected experts -- Mel Kiper, Jr. and Todd McShay of ESPN, Rob Rang of CBSSports.com and Daniel Jeremiah of NFL Media. After compiling their player rankings, six stood out above the crowd (in order): USC defensive lineman Leonard Williams, Florida State quarterback Jameis Winston, Alabama wide receiver Amari Cooper, West Virginia wide receiver Kevin White, Florida defensive end/linebacker Dante Fowler Jr. and Oregon quarterback Marcus Mariota.

 

My thoughts have always been that I feel who ever we pick at #6 I will be happy with  even if you throw in Scherff and Beasley to the mix. Shane Ray was in many mocks as top 6 guy so that's another guy to throw into the mix.    If the Jets are taking BPA I wonder if they agree with the top 6 names above in any order.  I do think they will inquire on the cost to move up to #1 and #2 because they have to know if it's doable.  What I do like is that there are some good players that will be available in the 2nd round and the direction they go will depend on what they do at #6.  

 

My guess is it will be one of the "6 elite" and the only one that could crash that party would be Sherff.   Besides a QB, the best thing for the Jets is if Cooper or White are there because that is a prime trading chip although teams may not overpay because they could tray and grab  Perrimen or Parker.

[Beerfish]

I really do not view Mariota as part of the 6 to be honest.  If he is there at 6 i hope we are getting phone calls.  I'll maintain my stance on scherff, do not want a 6.

[prime21]

If they really think Geno cannot get better then they have to take the chance and draft him if he's available.  Yes it will be yet another savor franchise QB for us but you keep trying hoping someone sticks.  

[Joe Jets fan]

If there really is a. Elite 6 then we finally lucky. You take the one that's left. With no complaints. We need elite talent. No matter the position.

[jetscrazey]

We are going to have a chance to draft a top flight prospect, but that doesn't necessarily mean we WILL draft one

[FidelioJet]

We are going to have a chance to draft a top flight prospect, but that doesn't necessarily mean we WILL draft one

we'll almost certainly draft one of those six (unless we trade down which I think it highly unlikely) who are elite prospects - question really is - will they turn out to be elite pro's...

[Tinstar]

If there really is a. Elite 6 then we finally lucky. You take the one that's left. With no complaints. We need elite talent. No matter the position.

The problem is there's no way to tell if the top 6 players on the Jets big board are the same as those 6. Asked yourself this question. Were all these players rated this highly at the end of the college football season ?

[Tony The Wiz]

  I think there are a few more than 6. Just with wide receivers there are at least 6 if not more who will make a huge impact next year. On Defense,  Williams, Beasley, Ray, Shelton, Orchard and my top guy at cornerback in Marcus Peters. I didn't even include the offensive line where Flowers, Scherff, and Erving. This is a really good draft.  I don't like Fowler as much as everyone. He basically is a one year wonder. He makes some plays but misses other. Good  physical specimen but want to see his drive. Dupree I see has a little more drive watching him play and  Gregory has a lot less drive. Gregory is a player I stay away.  A player I stated who has incredible desire and drive is Trey Flowers out of Arkansas Nobody talks about him but he plays every down. My kind of player.    

[Warfish]

Neither QB is an "elite" prospect, for the record.

 

They may be the best QB's available, and the rest of the QB's may not be first round material, but no one thinks either Winston or Mariota are "elite" sure thing, can't miss, start-day-1 type prospects.

 

They're just the perceived "best" in a weak and unimpressive QB Class.

[PatsFanTX]

Neither QB is an "elite" prospect, for the record.

 

They may be the best QB's available, and the rest of the QB's may not be first round material, but no one thinks either Winston or Mariota are "elite" sure thing, can't miss, start-day-1 type prospects.

 

They're just the perceived "best" in a weak and unimpressive QB Class.

 

In the last 20 years, there have been only 2 "elite" QB's coming out of the draft, Manning and Luck.

[southparkcpa]

In the last 20 years, there have been only 2 "elite" QB's coming out of the draft, Manning and Luck.

you forgot Pennington and Sanchez.

[Warfish]

In the last 20 years, there have been only 2 "elite" QB's coming out of the draft, Manning and Luck.

 

There is "Elite", as in a generational player a la Manning & Elway.

 

Then there is "elite" as in projected day 1 starter, 10-year potential career, chance at 1-2 titles type guys, of which the majority of recent "Franchise QB's" were coming out, Brady excluded of course.

 

Marriota and Winston are "hope, pray, take um if you ahve to, take three years, maybe more, could be slightly-above-average starters" type players.  I.e. They're the Mark Sanchez of 2015.

 

Like I said, the best of a VERY weak QB Class is the best that can be said of them.  

[PatsFanTX]

There is "Elite", as in a generational player a la Manning & Elway.

 

Then there is "elite" as in projected day 1 starter, 10-year potential career, chance at 1-2 titles type guys, of which the majority of recent "Franchise QB's" were coming out, Brady excluded of course.

 

 

What you just described is the difference between elite QB's and Franchise QB's.

 

Elite QB's are the the best in the league over an extended period of time (ie. Manning, Brady, Rogers, Brees).

 

Franchise QB's are guys their team knows they will be the starting QB (no competition) for the next 2-10 years heading into training camp (ie. Romo, Dalton, Ryan, E. Manning).

 

You don't have to be an elite QB to be a franchise QB.

[CTM]

Rivers was a damn good prospect

[GREENBEAN]

I'll tell ya what. This is going to be interesting. QB, WR or OLB for me all day. I would LOOOOOVE for the Philly fantasy to come true and Mariota falls to 6 and we get them to trade us the house. I'd take bradford for a year to see if he can make it all season with Fitz as backup. Not happening though and I see Tenn getting the kings ransom for MM.

 

We are set up nicely for the draft wth the FA period we had and that is good news. The only thing that would sour me is if we took an injury prone CB in the first 3 rds.

[Villain The Foe]

Im sorry but Kevin White not elite. He's a good WR but if he fell out of the top 10 I wouldnt be shocked. He had a great senior season, but did nothing else in college. Furthermore he'll be a 23 yr old rookie when he steps on the field, meaning that he's closer to his ceiling given his age, and at that age he had just one college year of solid production.

 

Amari Cooper was putting up 1000 yard seasons as an 18 year old and will be a 21 year old rookie in the NFL with an overall better game than White.

 

Devante Parker should be considered elite then. He'll be a 22 year old rookie but again, he had a college career where he showed consistency those last 3 years out there in louisville, averaging over 800 yards and 9TD's his last 3 seasons.

 

The love of the 40 time is getting out of control here. I can understand taking into consideration "the measurables" but Kevin White isnt even a polished receiver. I seen this guy get shut the heck down by Kevin White from TCU, convincingly I might add. And that CB isnt a big dude.

 

Kevin White is a damn good prospect but these guys need to cut it out with all of the "elite" talk. I've even said that I dont like that Amari Cooper stops playing football when the ball isnt thrown his direction (Few months back I showed a video of it, something that I will say Kevin white does not do. White plays to the whistle) but when the guy is playing you can see that Cooper is actually the better WR hands down. Not because he ran a track star time, but because in 3 years in college he put up 3500 yards and 31 TD's...meaning that his final college year wasnt possibly a random act.

[predator_05]

Totally agree on Kevin White. No clue where the hype is coming from. Sure, he is a great story but his body of work doesn't suggest elite. He is a workout warrior.

 

The only real 'elite' WR prospect other than Cooper is Green-Beckham. His incredible athleticism actually translates onto the field. Just needs to keep his nose clean.

[Ex-Rex]

Kevin White is a damn good prospect but these guys need to cut it out with all of the "elite" talk.

I agree. Plus, he ran a lot of short underneath routes at WVU. Lots of slip screens, slants and hooks and then made a lot of YAC. I don't think he will do as well on those plays in the NFL. Cooper is younger and more polished. I think the Raiders - who value speed over all, even if the guy can't catch - will grab White. I think Washington takes Williams leaving Cooper to the Jets. I am of course assuming Winston and Mariota go 1 -2. 

[bitonti]

I do agree with the basic premise of an elite 6. 

 

Warfish is completely underrating the QB crop. Scouts have said Winston is the best pure QB since Luck. and Mariota beat him straight up in the college playoffs. 

 

those 2 and Williams are easy to call elite. Cooper and White? Sure why not. (keep in mind that Decker's deal is very optional after this year and he and Marshall both get nicked up) . Fowler too although he lacks the pure explosion of some of the other pass rushers. 

 

Let's talk about who isn't elite: Beasley is small, Scherff is a guard and Bud Dupree doesn't have the production. 

[Villain The Foe]

I do agree with the basic premise of an elite 6. 

 

Warfish is completely underrating the QB crop. Scouts have said Winston is the best pure QB since Luck. and Mariota beat him straight up in the college playoffs. 

 

those 2 and Williams are easy to call elite. Cooper and White? Sure why not. (keep in mind that Decker's deal is very optional after this year and he and Marshall both get nicked up) . Fowler too although he lacks the pure explosion of some of the other pass rushers. 

 

Let's talk about who isn't elite: Beasley is small, Scherff is a guard and Bud Dupree doesn't have the production. 

Not sure if that example translates. Marcus Mariota and the Ducks did beat Winston and Fla. St. But I wouldnt dare say that Cardale Jones is equal to or better than Both WInston and Mariota because Ohio St. beat Oregon in the championship game straight up.

 

I dont know if I can call Mariota Elite. Winston lost one game in his entire collegiate career, and his stats when behind in a football game are just ridiculous. There's a reason behind calling him elite. I cant find that with Mariota.

 

Also, Scherff being a guard makes him a non elite type of talent? Is there no such thing as an elite guard? I agree that I dont see him being a LT in the league at all, possibly a RT, but this dude looks like he could be a perennial probowl/all pro guard for 10+ years. Thats not elite?

[RutgersJetFan]

Totes worth beating Miami and Tennessee. Really. Totally worth it.

[RutgersJetFan]

Scouts have said Winston is the best pure QB since Luck. and Mariota beat him straight up in the college playoffs.

 

And Wheeden beat Luck in the Fiesta Bowl. When has this ever mattered?

[keysersoze]

There is "Elite", as in a generational player a la Manning & Elway.

 

Then there is "elite" as in projected day 1 starter, 10-year potential career, chance at 1-2 titles type guys, of which the majority of recent "Franchise QB's" were coming out, Brady excluded of course.

 

Marriota and Winston are "hope, pray, take um if you ahve to, take three years, maybe more, could be slightly-above-average starters" type players.  I.e. They're the Mark Sanchez of 2015.

 

Like I said, the best of a VERY weak QB Class is the best that can be said of them.  

 

Did you even watch a single one of Winston's games in college? If you did, you'd know he's far better than that. If it weren't for off-the-field issues, Winston would be in the same category as Luck. Both his physical talents and intangibles are off the charts.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Let's talk about who isn't elite: Beasley is small, Scherff is a guard and Bud Dupree doesn't have the production.

Beasley is a two-time all american with a SPARQ score in the 99th percentile. And he's not elite because he's small? He's not even that small. Scherff is the only elite athlete in the top couple of tiers of OL. Dupree has 23.5 sacks 37 TFL 5 PD and a pick-six.

[Larz]

all we know for sure is jets fans will hate the pick

[greenwave81]

Totally agree on Kevin White. No clue where the hype is coming from. Sure, he is a great story but his body of work doesn't suggest elite. He is a workout warrior.

 

The only real 'elite' WR prospect other than Cooper is Green-Beckham. His incredible athleticism actually translates onto the field. Just needs to keep his nose clean.

 

 

DGB may be elite, but you have NO IDEA.  No one does.

 

I watched that guy at Mizzou during the only college season he was a featured receiver and I have to say that while he dominated at times, his hands are circumspect more in relation to his technique than anything.  He many times 'body caught' the ball rather than with his hands.  His lack of a 'season' this past year to showcase what he has developed makes DGB a crap shoot.  All the physical talents in the world, but not a can't miss prospect.

[Villain The Foe]

DGB may be elite, but you have NO IDEA.  No one does.

 

I watched that guy at Mizzou during the only college season he was a featured receiver and I have to say that while he dominated at times, his hands are circumspect more in relation to his technique than anything.  He many times 'body caught' the ball rather than with his hands.  His lack of a 'season' this past year to showcase what he has developed makes DGB a crap shoot.  All the physical talents in the world, but not a can't miss prospect.

Dead on. I think DGB is more of a pipe dream than he is elite. Thats just my opinion. He has every tool athletically to overwhelm defenders, but like you said, he doesnt have sure hands from what I've seen from his "highlights" or standard game tape . He's certainly a body catcher. There are times where he makes great catches, but he body catches alot. Also, I can guarantee that its his comparison to Calvin Johnson that have many people hyped over this guy, Not necessarily predator05, but his stats dont really reflect a dominate guy. In his entire career he's only had 3 games over 100 yards. He's never had a 150 yard game, he's only had 3 games where he's scored 2 TD's and 1 game where he's scored more than 2 TD's, never had a 1000 yard season and has less than 1,300 yards for his college career. In comparison, just in Amari Cooper's junior year he had over 1,700 yards, 3 games where he's scored 2 TD's, 2 games where he's scored 3 TD's, Seven 130+ yard games, Four 150+ yard games, and Three 200+ yard games. There's obvious reason why we have Cooper in the elite conversation.

 

DGB being an athletic freak of nature doesnt make him elite. Thats like saying that Vernon Gholston was elite, a guy who absolutely BLEW UP the combine during his rookie year. And im not comparing careers on a pro level, only their freakish athleticism. I dont think DGB has done enough on the field to warrant that title, and I believe that he's being overbought given the measurables and comparison to Megatron. I think he will be more of the Plaxico Burress type player. CRAZY redzone threat, but not as efficient in between the 20's as a Calvin Johnson would be. Good player if he can dedicate himself.

[bitonti]

 But I wouldnt dare say that Cardale Jones is equal to or better than Both WInston and Mariota because Ohio St. beat Oregon in the championship game straight up.

 

If Cardale Jones were in this draft he'd probably be a mid rd 1. It would be very interesting indeed. He's got a cannon. 

 

as for Scherff I like this player but the Jets don't need him. 

[TNJet]

Oh there is definitely an Elite 6. The irony is that Winston and Mariota are actually not one of them. Oh the hype of Heisman winners! 6 BAP: Cooper, Fowler, Scherrf, Ray, White, and Beasley.

[Villain The Foe]

If Cardale Jones were in this draft he'd probably be a mid rd 1. It would be very interesting indeed. He's got a cannon. 

 

as for Scherff I like this player but the Jets don't need him. 

Too funny. If there was even a possibility of Cardale going in the 1st round he would have declared. 

[predator_05]

DGB may be elite, but you have NO IDEA.  No one does.

 

I watched that guy at Mizzou during the only college season he was a featured receiver and I have to say that while he dominated at times, his hands are circumspect more in relation to his technique than anything.  He many times 'body caught' the ball rather than with his hands.  His lack of a 'season' this past year to showcase what he has developed makes DGB a crap shoot.  All the physical talents in the world, but not a can't miss prospect.

 

I heard all this about Demariyus Thomas as well. Remember DT didn't really do anything in college, couldn't even make 50 catches in a season. His footage still stood out.

 

Bottom line is, you can't coach size, speed, or physical presence. Whatever flaws DGB has are correctable flaws. Bearing that in mind, the upside you get with him makes him an irresistible pick. A lot depends on where he lands, i wouldn't expect him to become another DT if he has some scrub QB throwing to him. But imagine a guy like that on the Saints or something. I'm sure somebody will reach.

[predator_05]

Dead on. I think DGB is more of a pipe dream than he is elite. Thats just my opinion. He has every tool athletically to overwhelm defenders, but like you said, he doesnt have sure hands from what I've seen from his "highlights" or standard game tape . He's certainly a body catcher. There are times where he makes great catches, but he body catches alot. Also, I can guarantee that its his comparison to Calvin Johnson that have many people hyped over this guy, Not necessarily predator05, but his stats dont really reflect a dominate guy. In his entire career he's only had 3 games over 100 yards. He's never had a 150 yard game, he's only had 3 games where he's scored 2 TD's and 1 game where he's scored more than 2 TD's, never had a 1000 yard season and has less than 1,300 yards for his college career. In comparison, just in Amari Cooper's junior year he had over 1,700 yards, 3 games where he's scored 2 TD's, 2 games where he's scored 3 TD's, Seven 130+ yard games, Four 150+ yard games, and Three 200+ yard games. There's obvious reason why we have Cooper in the elite conversation.

 

DGB being an athletic freak of nature doesnt make him elite. Thats like saying that Vernon Gholston was elite, a guy who absolutely BLEW UP the combine during his rookie year. And im not comparing careers on a pro level, only their freakish athleticism. I dont think DGB has done enough on the field to warrant that title, and I believe that he's being overbought given the measurables and comparison to Megatron. I think he will be more of the Plaxico Burress type player. CRAZY redzone threat, but not as efficient in between the 20's as a Calvin Johnson would be. Good player if he can dedicate himself.

 

Gholston was a workout warrior. I don't really put much stock into combine numbers. They give you an indication of athleticism but the eye test reigns supreme. You won't change your initial impression of a player simply based on his combine numbers, only sh*tty teams would do that.

 

As for the stats, i'm not too bothered. Demariyus Thomas had a grand total of one 150 yard game in his 3 seasons at Georgia Tech. AJ Green never had a 1k yard season either. That's kind of what my whole point was - stats don't really make the player. DGB does things on the field that most other WRs in this class are incapable of doing. Nobody is an elite player straight out of college, but some - like DGB - have elite attributes. This is also why White doesn't really impress me, even though he balled out last year.

 

Its a leap of faith, the guy has a ton of baggage, but that doesn't mean he isn't an elite prospect.

[The Troll]

It's 2008 all over again. At least we beat Miami, though.

[SenorGato]

My top 6 players in this draft, in no order:

 

Winston

Cooper

Dupree

Beasley

Gregory

Scherff

 

Gurley would be 7 for me.

[Villain The Foe]

Gholston was a workout warrior. I don't really put much stock into combine numbers. They give you an indication of athleticism but the eye test reigns supreme. You won't change your initial impression of a player simply based on his combine numbers, only sh*tty teams would do that.

 

As for the stats, i'm not too bothered. Demariyus Thomas had a grand total of one 150 yard game in his 3 seasons at Georgia Tech. AJ Green never had a 1k yard season either. That's kind of what my whole point was - stats don't really make the player. DGB does things on the field that most other WRs in this class are incapable of doing. Nobody is an elite player straight out of college, but some - like DGB - have elite attributes. This is also why White doesn't really impress me, even though he balled out last year.

 

Its a leap of faith, the guy has a ton of baggage, but that doesn't mean he isn't an elite prospect.

To start, great rebuttal. You made me think for a minute how I needed to approach this.

 

I still can't put DGB in that class though. While having elite attributes is something even I stated he had, at the end of the day its what translates on the field. What me and a few others came away with is that he's a body catcher who definitely flashes. 

 

Maybe you've seen his games in college, I've only seen game tape of what I can find online and of his highlights. You said that no one is an elite player coming straight out of college. Thats not true. You could have been an elite college player, which is what I gathered from the thread. DGB wasnt an elite player. Did he flash dominance? Sure. Did he actually dominate? The numbers (Which at the end of the day is the determining factor) doesnt support that. Yeah, Demaryius Thomas had just one game of over 150 yards, but it showed that he could actually put up a game of 150 yards. We're not saying that he "could" like we are about DGB. Thomas had a season where he put up damn near to 1,200 yards in a "triple option offense", DBG couldn't get 900 in a system that actually threw the ball. AJ Green never had a 1,000 yard season, but in his three years he also never had a year less than 800 yards which would make him pretty damn consistent and would also be comparable to a guy who I mentioned earlier in this thread that should also be considered elite over Kevin White which was Devante Parker. Parker averaged a bit less in yards in comparison to AJ Green over his last 3 seasons (828 to 873), but he averaged more TD's than AJ Green. To also add, Parker put up 855 yards and 5TD's this season in just his last 6 games, Parker missed his first 6 games of the season due to injury. That's "elite" football right there, not just "elite" attributes. Here's my quote: 

 

Devante Parker should be considered elite then. He'll be a 22 year old rookie but again, he had a college career where he showed consistency those last 3 years out there in louisville, averaging over 800 yards and 9TD's his last 3 seasons.

 

DGB's attributes and measurables suggest that with work on his game he "could" be something special. And as you said, that's a leap of faith coming from a guy who would put his own career on the line and never actually dominated though possessing dominating attributes while in college. What does that actually say about DGB? What it says to me is that I wouldnt spend a 1st round pick on a guy who possesses something but doesnt necessarily show it on the field, while doing stupid stuff off the field that kept him off the field for a year.