Sam Darnold will NOT Be a Top 5 Pick in the next NFL Draft

[Tinstar]

1 hour ago, JetFaninMI said:

Smallish?  Bakers 6'2 Rosen is 6'3 and Darnold is 6'4. So is Rosen smallish? All 3 can play.

If Baker measures 6'2" at the combine, he's the 3rd pick in the draft after Rosen and Darnold . Hell, he might even be drafted before 1 of those 2 . 

[BloodGreen]

Mayfield is the next Aaron Rodgers and can be had in the late first round. Win now and enjoy watching our young talent on both sides of the ball gain invaluable experience!

[Toua77]

18 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

Smallish?  Bakers 6'2 Rosen is 6'3 and Darnold is 6'4. So is Rosen smallish? All 3 can play.

Baker Mayfield is not 6'2. It would be a pleasant surprise to me if he measures 6'0 even. His height is the main reason he hasn't been brought up in the discussion as a Top 10 pick(And his arm also isn't prototypical material although in a WCO he should be good enough).

[Super Bowl before I die]

Sam Darnold = Mark Sanchez

[JetFaninMI]

1 hour ago, Toua77 said:

Baker Mayfield is not 6'2. It would be a pleasant surprise to me if he measures 6'0 even. His height is the main reason he hasn't been brought up in the discussion as a Top 10 pick(And his arm also isn't prototypical material although in a WCO he should be good enough).

Just going by what is written in his bio.

Baker Mayfield

American football quarterback

Baker Reagan Mayfield is a college American football quarterback for the Oklahoma Sooners. Mayfield began his college football career as a walk-on player for the Texas Tech Red Raiders. wikipedia.org

• Born: April 14, 1995 (age 22), Austin
• Height: 6' 2" (1.88m)
• Parents: Gina Mayfield, James Mayfield

[Toua77]

13 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

Just going by what is written in his bio.

Baker Mayfield

American football quarterback

Baker Reagan Mayfield is a college American football quarterback for the Oklahoma Sooners. Mayfield began his college football career as a walk-on player for the Texas Tech Red Raiders. wikipedia.org

• Born: April 14, 1995 (age 22), Austin
• Height: 6' 2" (1.88m)
• Parents: Gina Mayfield, James Mayfield

The official Sooners website lists him at 6'1, so you can be sure that measurement is coming up short for the combine.

[j4jets]

The nonsense that a top QB prospect won't come out due to weather, and I repeat weather, is absurd. Each year lost for these QBs is probably equivalent to $30+ mil for a top QB (in his prime) 10 years down the road. Maybe even significantly more with the way salary cap has been jumping. Rookie wage scale has crested another monster. Now that doesn't mean Darnold will come out. Maybe he's hell bent on playing in CA. So this post guarantees about as much as the OP. 

[JetFaninMI]

Just now, Toua77 said:

The official Sooners website lists him at 6'1, so you can be sure that measurement is coming up short for the combine.

We will see then won't we? Hey you don't like the guy. Its cool. The guy loves to play and never gives up. You can't deny that. He has swagger, determination and won't fold up like a cheap suit under pressure. All the intangibles you want in an NFL QB. He has gotten better every year he plays and can get the job done. Time will tell on Mayfield but right now He should be in the conversation as much as any other guy out there whether you like him or not.

[pdxgreen]

I cant tell you one thing.  Darnold is better than Josh Allen.  That guy blows.

[Toua77]

5 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

We will see then won't we? Hey you don't like the guy. Its cool. The guy loves to play and never gives up. You can't deny that. He has swagger, determination and won't fold up like a cheap suit under pressure. All the intangibles you want in an NFL QB. He has gotten better every year he plays and can get the job done. Time will tell on Mayfield but right now He should be in the conversation as much as any other guy out there whether you like him or not.

Where did I say I didn't like him amigo? Find one single instance lol.

I was just saying... he's not 6'2. I've been up on Mayfield since last year and his height was a huge conversation point. Anyways it has a vague connection at best (If any) as to whether he'll be a successful QB. I'm a big Mayfield guy(And was last year) which is why I know a little about him.

[JetFaninMI]

Just now, Toua77 said:

Where did I say I didn't like him amigo? Find one single instance lol.

I was just saying... he's not 6'2. I've been up on Mayfield since last year and his height was a huge conversation point. Anyways it has a vague connection at best (If any) as to whether he'll be a successful QB.

LOL. That's what I'm saying. I like the guys game from what I have seen so far and think He is a player. You correcting me on his height gave me that impression that you weren't his biggest fan. No biggie. Cheers.

[UntouchableCrew]

Darnold will almost unquestionably be a Top 5 pick and will probably be the #1 pick. Things change but they kid is a real talent and if history has shown us anything it's that QBs are overdrafted not underdrafted.

[Hitman Harris]

On 9/25/2017 at 12:16 PM, Jet Blast said:

I wouldn't bet the farm on the Jets picking #1 anyway.

picking 6-8 like usual 

[Obrien2Toon]

On 9/26/2017 at 12:38 PM, Tinstar said:

If Baker measures 6'2" at the combine, he's the 3rd pick in the draft after Rosen and Darnold . Hell, he might even be drafted before 1 of those 2 . 

I don’t think he will.

Hes listed at 6’ 1”. So hopefully he’s at least 6’

[JoJoTownsell1]

I don't care if this kid throws 2 more ints tonight, he's the real deal. He has everything you want in a QB. His pocket presence is uncanny. Goes threw his progressions. Just sometimes thinks he can make perfect passes and gets in trouble instead of just throwing it away. He's still a kid and that is something he can learn to stop doing as he matures. 

Whether some of you like it or not, he's going number 1. He's way ahead of trubisky and he went 2. Maybe Rosen can leapfrog him but I doubt it based on personality alone..

The only question is whether we are bad enough to land number 1 overall.

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I don't care if this kid throws 2 more ints tonight, he's the real deal.

It's like you can read Maccagnan's mind

[jetscrazey]

The way Darnold slides around in the pocket to buy the extra half second is something many veterans in the NFL can't emulate.  The pocket awareness is off the charts, he's got eyes in the back of his head.  That and anticipating WRs being open vs. zone coverage are 2 of the hardest skills to attain, and he seems to have them both.  Sure he had the bad fumble tonight, and he sometimes tends to lean back on deep throws instead of stepping into it, but that's coachable and this guy is still a special talent IMO, with great leadership skills and character, and he should be a top 2 pick, depending on how GMs view Rosen.

[Toua77]

That last fumble, is due to arm angle, and overall ball security.

Where Darnold holds the ball to throw with his right hand is rather low. He throws underhand per-say, where the top of his hand is facing the ground, instead of the Sky.

Where he holds the ball to throw with his left hand, causes strip sack turnovers. Especially, in the NFL, if he doesn't fix these technical miscues.

Doesn't mean change his throwing motion whatsoever. A QB coach just needs to make sure Darnold keeps two hands on the ball, bringing that left hand with the ball just a bit longer is key, in a game of inches.

Accept his (right)arm throwing motion, it's how he throws. If anything, work on the technical aspect of the arm angle motion coming around faster. Also gaining flexibility in the overall arm and shoulder.

[RoadFan]

3 hours ago, Toua77 said:

That last fumble, is due to arm angle, and overall ball security.

Where Darnold holds the ball to throw with his right hand is rather low. He throws underhand per-say, where the top of his hand is facing the ground, instead of the Sky.

Where he holds the ball to throw with his left hand, causes strip sack turnovers. Especially, in the NFL, if he doesn't fix these technical miscues.

Doesn't mean change his throwing motion whatsoever. A QB coach just needs to make sure Darnold keeps two hands on the ball, bringing that left hand with the ball just a bit longer is key, in a game of inches.

Accept his (right)arm throwing motion, it's how he throws. If anything, work on the technical aspect of the arm angle motion coming around faster. Also gaining flexibility in the overall arm and shoulder.

Good stuff.  Were you a QB? Are/were you a Coach? Both?

[Scoop24]

If the draft was today I would take Rosen over Darnold 

[UntouchableCrew]

Even after last night I'm still on the Darnold bandwagon. To be honest none of the top prospects have really impressed me so far this year but I've seen the flashes from Darnold that make me think he has elite talent.

With Rosen it's really the attitude. I don't think the guy is a winner despite the fact that he's probably got the better prototype skillset.

I would eat my hat if Baker Mayfield is 6'2"... I bet he's closer to 5'10"

[CanadaSteve]

The more I watch of Sam Darnold, the more I wonder if he will be a top 10 pick, let alone the number one pick.

[Jetlife33]

Noodle arm 

[UntouchableCrew]

2 minutes ago, Jetlife33 said:

Noodle arm 

Have you seen him play? Rag on the INTs but his arm strength is great.

[HawkeyeJet]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Have you seen him play? Rag on the INTs but his arm strength is great.

This doesn't mean anything really, but his throwing motion makes his ball look like it has less zip.  It's very long, and for whatever reason, that makes his throws look like they have less on them.

He does have a good arm, very good.  His decision making and pocket awareness are becoming very worrisome though.  Not a lot of successful QBs who force tons of throws and are skittish in the pocket constantly.

[JustInFudge]

This is why you don't hype the "next big thing" without substantial tape to support it.  This is why you don't pass on prospects in "hope" of the next big thing and this is why ultimately this is the most overhyped QB class in the history of QB classes  

Darnold is flawed.  Heavily.  His throwing motion throws off his timing and it effects his decision making.  His ball has plenty of zip, that not the issue the problem is when you're brining it from your hip, that window closes faster than your mind works and by the time he sees the window, he's a second behind.  And he's not even facing real D's yet.  He can make the throws but it's when he has to make a fast decision to a quick throw and challenge coverage when everything breaks down...and it all starts with this throwing motion.  It's why Blake Bortles has more pick 6's then wins.  

Darnold is still a top 5 pick, no doubt but I think we can relax with the ridiculous hype of this class.

2017 > 2018 and the Jets screwed the pootch because Hack. 

[Paradis]

4 hours ago, Scoop24 said:

If the draft was today I would take Rosen over Darnold 

Yes.

Rosen -- when not asked to score 50+ points and make 50 attempts -- is a better product today.

[Fantasy Island]

Down goes Darnold .  Watched the game last night and was NOT impressed.  So we will pick him in the 2nd round and deja vu it all over again.

[Paradis]

13 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

Down goes Darnold .  Watched the game last night and was NOT impressed.  So we will pick him in the 2nd round and deja vu it all over again.

ehh, i think this is the season of overreacting. The only thing we learned about Darnold last night (or this season) is that he's not the superhuman John Elway prospect the media was trying to bill him as... he's still clearly an NFL QB who has the "it" factor -- the question becomes; can he clean up the mistakes. 

Back to why Falk is the most underappreciated QB in this class--

[Beerfish]

Didn;t see the game last night but it doesn't sound good.  I am still on the Darnold train though, not leaving it.  He does a few very important things that very good nfl qbs have to do.

[nicg4360]

Int's are not everything true but they can't be completely ignored. Name me the last qb that went first overall throwing the same amount of interceptions as touchdowns as Darnold is on pace to do.

Sent from my Moto Z using JetNation.com mobile app

[Toua77]

7 hours ago, RoadFan said:

Good stuff.  Were you a QB? Are/were you a Coach? Both?

Thanks man, was a QB in hs about 10 years ago. Scouting has been a hobby of mines since playing was over for me at that point.

[Mogglez]

On 9/30/2017 at 11:43 AM, JiF said:

This is why you don't hype the "next big thing" without substantial tape to support it.  This is why you don't pass on prospects in "hope" of the next big thing and this is why ultimately this is the most overhyped QB class in the history of QB classes  

Darnold is flawed.  Heavily.  His throwing motion throws off his timing and it effects his decision making.  His ball has plenty of zip, that not the issue the problem is when you're brining it from your hip, that window closes faster than your mind works and by the time he sees the window, he's a second behind.  And he's not even facing real D's yet.  He can make the throws but it's when he has to make a fast decision to a quick throw and challenge coverage when everything breaks down...and it all starts with this throwing motion.  It's why Blake Bortles has more pick 6's then wins.  

Darnold is still a top 5 pick, no doubt but I think we can relax with the ridiculous hype of this class.

2017 > 2018 and the Jets screwed the pootch because Hack. 

Not even close. You can't possibly nitpick Darnold for a funky release, INTs, struggling to read defenses and yet tout a class that featured Watson, Mahomes, and Trubisky, who aren't even close to matching Falk, Rudolph, or even Mayfield as spread option QBs let alone pro-style prospects who have successfully taken snaps under center like Rosen and Darnold. They alone make this class "better" than last year's.  I know you love Watson like a first born son, but his national championship performance will never erase his flaws as a prospect for the pro game.  He hasn't done anything in the NFL that says he's not still a one read QB, with a weak arm, who struggles with accuracy, turnovers, and reading a blitz.  He's the only one who has started in the regular season so Trubisky (who I thought was "decent") and Mahomes (who I have zero faith in) can't really be talked about yet, but they both looked better than Deshaun in the preseason and Trubisky will probably start next week, so we'll see.  Rosen, Darnold, Rudolph, and Mayfield are all well ahead of him and the rest of those guys from last year's class in those areas at similar stages in their collegiate careers, and 2 of those guys play in similar systems as the top 3 of 2017.  

As far as mechanics go, Darnold's arm motion isn't even what's hindering him and his release speed isn't even close to being the issue.  Darnold's shoddy footwork and lower half mechanics give him a slight lean to his left, messing with his hips, directly affect his ball placement, which isn't even horrendous.  It's easily correctable and is often is an issue for QBs in college.  These shotgun formations have led many recent prospects to have this issue when they go into the pro's.  Petty was awful when he first came into the league and now his lower half mechanics are more than adequate.  His head is still an issue though, but that's for another thread.  Addressing Blake Bortles?  He's a total mess.  It's not even remotely comparable.  I can't think of a guy, other than Tebow, who is all sorts of out of wack. Sam has natural touch, pocket presence, and accuracy that can't be taught.  If his arm mechanics were as close to as bad as you think they are, that wouldn't be the case.  He has not had an issue completing NFL quality passes like Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, Hackenberg, and Josh Allen have, and they were QBs with "tighter" arm mechanics, despite their other glaring flaws.  He can certainly improve in that area (@Toua77 had a great write up on his arm angle that I totally agree with..HELLO FELLOW FORMER HS QB TURNED ARM CHAIR SCOUT FOR FUN), but the bigger issue with him right now is that he's playing in a new gimmicky system that doesn't suit him or USC as a whole (for the record, this isn't the same as the Hackenberg/Franklin situation since many will try and negate this with that point, Darnold still looks like he can be great while Hack still struggled to a crazy degree.) with young/inexperienced talent, and now he's pressing to compensate.  He's dissected NFL style defenses and blitzes and has graded out well against them.  He's still doing it, it's just not as consistent as last year because he's trying to force things.  He absolutely carved up Stanford this year with big boy throws and reads.  I know I've said it a hundred times, but this is just like when Jameis Winston started throwing picks left and right in 2015 (minus Jameis having to with a change of system).  People overreacted, looked at the box stats, ignored all the good, and Winston ended up turning out fine in the end.  In all of the Winston versus Mariota threads this turnover stuff got mentioned and he still went #1 and people who discredited him ended up with egg on their faces.  The only difference now is that Rosen is a better prospect than Marcus was and you can legitimately say he can be the #1 guy ahead of Darnold without having to deal with the "system" argument, that many used to compare Jameis and Marcus, because they both have played in pro style systems.

Darnold had a phenomenal year in that pro style offense, was touted recruit, and has continued to show that he has the traits to be a damn good pocket passer in the NFL.  Flawed season from him and all, this class is still far ahead of last years.  That doesn't mean it WILL be better when history is in the books, but as far as pro potential goes, it isn't close.  This one is viewed as strong, last year's had scouts saying there isn't a 1st round talent at QB who will "deserve" to be taken there when they inevitably get drafted in the 1st.

****EDIT (5/2/2017)****

I'll eat my crow on Watson.  Boy looks legit!!!

[JustInFudge]

31 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Not even close. You can't possibly nitpick Darnold for a funky release, INTs, struggling to read defenses and yet tout a class that featured Watson, Mahomes, and Trubisky, who aren't even close to matching Falk, Rudolph, or even Mayfield as spread option QBs let alone pro-style prospects who have successfully taken snaps under center like Rosen and Darnold. They alone make this class "better" than last year's.  I know you love Watson like a first born son, but his national championship performance will never erase his flaws as a prospect for the pro game.  He hasn't done anything in the NFL that says he's not still a one read QB, with a weak arm, who struggles with accuracy, turnovers, and reading a blitz.  He's the only one who has started in the regular season so Trubisky (who I thought was "decent") and Mahomes (who I have zero faith in) can't really be talked about yet, but they both looked better than Deshaun in the preseason and Trubisky will probably start next week, so we'll see.  Rosen, Darnold, Rudolph, and Mayfield are all well ahead of him and the rest of those guys from last year's class in those areas at similar stages in their collegiate careers, and 2 of those guys play in similar systems as the top 3 of 2017.  

As far as mechanics go, Darnold's arm motion isn't even what's hindering him and his release speed isn't even close to being the issue.  Darnold's shoddy footwork and lower half mechanics give him a slight lean to his left, messing with his hips, directly affect his ball placement, which isn't even horrendous.  It's easily correctable and is often is an issue for QBs in college.  These shotgun formations have led many recent prospects to have this issue when they go into the pro's.  Petty was awful when he first came into the league and now his lower half mechanics are more than adequate.  His head is still an issue though, but that's for another thread.  Addressing Blake Bortles?  He's a total mess.  It's not even remotely comparable.  I can't think of a guy, other than Tebow, who is all sorts of out of wack. Sam has natural touch, pocket presence, and accuracy that can't be taught.  If his arm mechanics were as close to as bad as you think they are, that wouldn't be the case.  He has not had an issue completing NFL quality passes like Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, Hackenberg, and Josh Allen have, and they were QBs with "tighter" arm mechanics, despite their other glaring flaws.  He can certainly improve in that area (@Toua77 had a great write up on his arm angle that I totally agree with..HELLO FELLOW FORMER HS QB TURNED ARM CHAIR SCOUT FOR FUN), but the bigger issue with him right now is that he's playing in a new gimmicky system that doesn't suit him or USC as a whole (for the record, this isn't the same as the Hackenberg/Franklin situation since many will try and negate this with that point, Darnold still looks like he can be great while Hack still struggled to a crazy degree.) with young/inexperienced talent, and now he's pressing to compensate.  He's dissected NFL style defenses and blitzes and has graded out well against them.  He's still doing it, it's just not as consistent as last year because he's trying to force things.  He absolutely carved up Stanford this year with big boy throws and reads.  I know I've said it a hundred times, but this is just like when Jameis Winston started throwing picks left and right in 2015 (minus Jameis having to with a change of system).  People overreacted, looked at the box stats, ignored all the good, and Winston ended up turning out fine in the end.  In all of the Winston versus Mariota threads this turnover stuff got mentioned and he still went #1 and people who discredited him ended up with egg on their faces.  The only difference now is that Rosen is a better prospect than Marcus was and you can legitimately say he can be the #1 guy ahead of Darnold without having to deal with the "system" argument, that many used to compare Jameis and Marcus, because they both have played in pro style systems.

Darnold had a phenomenal year in that pro style offense, was touted recruit, and has continued to show that he has the traits to be a damn good pocket passer in the NFL.  Flawed season from him and all, this class is still far ahead of last years.  That doesn't mean it WILL be better when history is in the books, but as far as pro potential goes, it isn't close.  This one is viewed as strong, last year's had scouts saying there isn't a 1st round talent at QB who will "deserve" to be taken there when they inevitably get drafted in the 1st.

2017 > 2018

[Mogglez]

9 minutes ago, JiF said:

2017 > 2018

I seriously don't know why I bothered.