Interesting tidbits by Pauline on Cousins and Hack

[Warfish]

12 hours ago, Dinamite said:

http://draftanalyst.com/shrine-game-monday-night-notes

 

Tony Pauline reports from the shrine game practices and has some interesting things to say about Cousins suitors and the idea that Hack is done and could be traded for a conditional pick.

Who is going to pay the Jets for Hack?

[Scott Dierking]

2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Washington knows Mac wants Cousins and they will demand our first round pick after they tag him

Doing so would cripple their cap and their ability to move in the offseason

[nycdan]

Just now, flgreen said:

Yeah, your right, what was I thinking, teams never collude, or tamper with players, and HC's in the NFL.  Particularly when it comes to franchise QB's.

I never said the Browns would give the #1 to the Jets, I said "with a bit of compensation relief" 

If the Browns signed Cousins and traded the #1 pick to the Jets for anything less than reasonable compensation (i.e. a massive deal) it would be the subject of immediate interest to the league.  Yes, collusion occurs, but in much less obvious ways.  There's no way to hide this. 

Jets and Browns both vying for Cousins.  Jets drop out.  CLE trades #1 to Jets for their #6 and a second rounder.  Wouldn't take a week for the fines and lost picks to get assessed.  Heck, if this was realistically possible, every team with big cap would jump in on every FA in anticipation of getting some candy to drop out.  The whole system would tear itself apart and there's  no way it wouldn't come out.  

Tactically it makes sense, but it's just not realistic.  Not saying it never happened, but I can't see it happening with such a high-profile situation as this.

[#27TheDominator]

I don't think you people are reading the Hackenberg trade rumor right.  It isn't the Jets getting something for him.  It is some team doing us the favor or offering a conditional 7th, so that they can be the ones that cut him so that he ends up out of the league.  It slightly softens the blow.  Big article of the Jets cutting bait and then a small blurb a month later when he is cut loose.  Then a bouple of years of him showing up on Tuesday tryouts before he goes into banking or coaching.

[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Neither are your threads. 

Sick burn grandpa

[jeremy2020]

1 hour ago, MDL_JET said:

Hack becomes a good QB. 

[MDL_JET]

8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't think you people are reading the Hackenberg trade rumor right.  It isn't the Jets getting something for him.  It is some team doing us the favor or offering a conditional 7th, so that they can be the ones that cut him so that he ends up out of the league.  It slightly softens the blow.  Big article of the Jets cutting bait and then a small blurb a month later when he is cut loose.  Then a bouple of years of him showing up on Tuesday tryouts before he goes into banking or coaching.

Wait what? How is it not the Jets getting something, if another team is the one cutting him? 

[joewilly12]

12 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Sick burn grandpa

[docdhc]

I think this is pure BS that the Jets would trade Hack for next to nothing. It costs nothing to bring him to training camp and see if there is any improvement. Why give up now for a conditional meaningless pick? Worse case scenario is that at least he is another arm for training camp. Besides, who from the organization would tell Pauline that? It's just pure speculation.

[docdhc]

[varjet]

I vaguely recall that it was the Vikings who had interest in trading for Petty.  Look at what they did with Case Keenum.  Petty was not good this past season, but I have a funny feeling that another coach/team could get more out of Petty than the Jets did.  I think Petty was better in college than Keenum was.  

As for Hack, I don't know.  What I do think I know is that even if the Jets carried three QBs last year, they were three different types of QB.  Hard to coach/manage for that.  In hiring Morton, who I think was Plan B, the Jets basically had to sign a QB to run his offense, because Petty and Hack were not going to be able to.

So hopefully the Jets are thinking about these issues as they consider who their QB for 2018 will be, and who will coach him.   I can see Mayfield, Darnold or Cousins (in addition to McCown play in Morton's offense).  If the Jets got DeFillipo, I can see Allen play in that, and Hack is probably closer to that than Morton's (although who knows whether Hack would ever play in any offense).  Not only did Mac reach for Hack based on his actual play on tape, but he drafted a QB that Gailey and Patullo, and now Morton, were incapable of developing.  Hack at is best is a classic Brady-style dropback passer.

We have not heard the last of Bryce Petty.

[August]

As long as Macc is here they’re not going to give up on Hackenberg. 

[Untouchable]

The Hack stuff doesn’t make any sense to me.

He’s only going to be 23 years old this season and is still on a cheap contract for another 2 years.

Petty is 4 years older and has repeatedly looked like sh*t whenever he’s seen action in a meaningful game.

There’s no harm in keeping Hack around as the #3 next year. Hopefully he progresses enough to be the #2.

My ideal QB depth chart next year would look something like this:

Cousins

Hackenberg

Mid-Round Rookie (Falk/Rudolph/Ferguson)

[MDL_JET]

2 minutes ago, August said:

As long as Macc is here they’re not going to give up on Hackenberg. 

And they really shouldn't. No reason to, he's barely costing anything. And he's there incase we need to do an emergency tanking if Cousins gets injured. 

[flgreen]

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

If the Browns signed Cousins and traded the #1 pick to the Jets for anything less than reasonable compensation (i.e. a massive deal) it would be the subject of immediate interest to the league.  Yes, collusion occurs, but in much less obvious ways.  There's no way to hide this. 

Jets and Browns both vying for Cousins.  Jets drop out.  CLE trades #1 to Jets for their #6 and a second rounder.  Wouldn't take a week for the fines and lost picks to get assessed.  Heck, if this was realistically possible, every team with big cap would jump in on every FA in anticipation of getting some candy to drop out.  The whole system would tear itself apart and there's  no way it wouldn't come out.  

Tactically it makes sense, but it's just not realistic.  Not saying it never happened, but I can't see it happening with such a high-profile situation as this.

IF it were to happen, it wouldn't even have to be collusion, and almost impossible to prove.

  Jets and Browns are the final bidders in the Cousins sweepstakes.  Getting very pricey with no end in sight as both teams have over $100M.  Jets contact Browns, totally unrelated to Cousins negotiations, make a reasonable offer, but not ransom for the #1.  Don't think Dorsey is an idiot, he knows that if the Jets get #1, they get Cousins at a much more reasonable price then if the Jets keep throwing money at Cousins.  Dorsey weights in his mind what is more valuable to him.  A proven commodity in Cousins, at a reasonable price, or rolling  the dice on Darnold, who a lot of people thought should have gone back to school. 

If he decides Cousins is his guy, and still gets reasonable compensation for #1 he makes the deal with out putting #1 on the open market.  Much like what happened with Jimmy G and the 9'ers for the below market vale of a 2nd. 

Where was the collusion? Jets just say they lost interest in Cousins due to the price.  No case.   There's wouldn't be a contract here leaving a trail of collusion.  Nor would they be giving #1 away.  Just 2 separate, unrelated deals.

I don't actually think it will happen, don't think Macc is that shrewd.  

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

Wait what? How is it not the Jets getting something, if another team is the one cutting him? 

Wait what, what?  

A conditional 7th means the Jets are getting nothing.  He gets cut before week 1 and the condition isn't met.  The Jets get nothing other than an article that another front office cut Hackenberg.  Saves us the embarrassment on the transaction list.  Nothing more.

[Beerfish]

41 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

The Hack stuff doesn’t make any sense to me.

He’s only going to be 23 years old this season and is still on a cheap contract for another 2 years.

Petty is 4 years older and has repeatedly looked like sh*t whenever he’s seen action in a meaningful game.

There’s no harm in keeping Hack around as the #3 next year. Hopefully he progresses enough to be the #2.

My ideal QB depth chart next year would look something like this:

Cousins

Hackenberg

Mid-Round Rookie (Falk/Rudolph/Ferguson)

One injury form having hackenburg as your starter?  The day falk, rudolph, ferguson step into camp is the day they will surpass hackenburg.

The jets totally wasted their chance to let the guy have a couple of reg season games last year, just an idiotic move on their part. 

[Paradis]

13 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Arizona, Denver, Cleveland, Jets, Redskins..

DAMN.

expect this bidding war to truly get out of hand. I have a gut feeling we don’t get him.

We were never going to land him... IMO. Our best pitch is a our biggest crux.. "well, it's NYC and all" 

How could you pick us over DEN? And don't count out JAX. Just because Bortles is doing his best '09 Sanchez impression, doesn't mean they won't look to get him on board. Coughlin as no skin in the bortles game. 

[greenwave81]

10 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

I think its worth it as well . I also think you're numbers are in the right range 80 may be a bit too high but ya never know. What I'm concerned with is when do the numbers start to get stupid and at what point do you stop.

If we get Cousins I would love one of the dynamic RB's with the 6th pick its been long over due that we had a game changing RB ... Well I'm not sure we ever had a game changer at RB  

After that's done build up the O-line to enhance the running game and beef up protection for our new QB.

I agree to a point...but if I'm guaranteeing a FA QB $60-70 mill, I'm going to protect that investment first.  Take the best OT prospect that projects as a LT and don't leave your significant investment reliant on someone like Beachum and even Schell.  You have a better chance of finding a dynamic RB in the 2nd round than you do of finding a long-term LT.

But that's just me.

[greenwave81]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Who is going to pay the Jets for Hack?

Somehow in the back of my mind I would see Bellichick giving Hack a swing at it for a conditional 7th just to poke the NYJ in the eye another time

[#27TheDominator]

Well... he did sign Tebow.  and Harris, and Revis, and Chris Baker, and Barton, ...

[greenwave81]

2 hours ago, nycdan said:

If the Browns signed Cousins and traded the #1 pick to the Jets for anything less than reasonable compensation (i.e. a massive deal) it would be the subject of immediate interest to the league.  Yes, collusion occurs, but in much less obvious ways.  There's no way to hide this. 

Jets and Browns both vying for Cousins.  Jets drop out.  CLE trades #1 to Jets for their #6 and a second rounder.  Wouldn't take a week for the fines and lost picks to get assessed.  Heck, if this was realistically possible, every team with big cap would jump in on every FA in anticipation of getting some candy to drop out.  The whole system would tear itself apart and there's  no way it wouldn't come out.  

Tactically it makes sense, but it's just not realistic.  Not saying it never happened, but I can't see it happening with such a high-profile situation as this.

While I tend to agree with you, it would be unprecedented in the NFL for a '1st' rd pick, I was genuinely surprised the NFL had little to say about the Osweiler/2nd rd dp to CLE deal for nothing else but a swap of compensatory picks with HOU.  What's the difference other than the round of the DP?  Say some team drafting ahead of us had a bad contract that was hamstringing the off-season maneuvers/FA wants...we couldn't trade one of our lower DP's for the other teams 1st rd DP coupled with the bad contract?  Actually, I'm surprised this hasn't been done more often...or maybe I'm missing something?

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/03/09/brock-osweiler-trade-cleveland-browns-houston-texans

[SenorGato]

4 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

So, your saying that overall the Jets have a more talented roster than the Broncos?? 

I’m saying the Broncos are a terrible team with bottom of the league performances fron everyone but their defense, which just got another year older and is not to be confused with the one that won a SB. I’m also saying they do not actually have the money to both pull signing Cousins off and ungarbage the team. 

[jack48]

4 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

I’m sure he will take all 50 of them if it means getting all 100 of his touchdowns

I would.  I wonder about Todd, though.  Every time I watch Cousins play, he loses.  My view of him is tainted.

[Dcat]

5 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Washington knows Mac wants Cousins and they will demand our first round pick after they tag him

"If another club offers a contract to a transitioned player, his original club has seven days to decide whether to match that offer or not. If the original club agrees to match, the player is forced to sign with the original club at the terms agreed to in the offer by the other club. If the original club declines to match, the player signs with the other team, and the original team is offered no compensation, as they would be if the player had received the franchise tag."

[Dcat]

5 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Mayfield is going to be a bust.  We’re way better off with Cousins and I’m not even a huge fan of Cousins

you know... it really gets tiring hearing all your opinions expressed as though they are stone cold facts.  No one here does it as often as you.  It's annoying and stifles intelligent debate.  It's one of the reasons why almost every thread you join disintegrates into nonsense.  Well at least you haven't started to inject racial issues into all the posts yet. In that regard, you have improved over that other message board site where you did that continuously until you finally left.

[SenorGato]

1 minute ago, Dcat said:

you know... it really gets tiring hearing all your opinions expressed as though they are stone cold facts.  No one here does it as often as you.  It's annoying and stifles intelligent debate.  It's one of the reasons why almost every thread you join disintegrates into nonsense.  Well at least you haven't started to inject racial issues into all the posts yet. In that regard, you have improved over that other message board site where you did that continuously until you finally left.

Can you believe he was worse as BigO? 

[Patriot Killa]

21 minutes ago, jack48 said:

I would.  I wonder about Todd, though.  Every time I watch Cousins play, he loses.  My view of him is tainted.

I’ve seen some gritty comebacks. I ‘be read about some dominate performance..but I can’t sit here and say he doesn’t lose. 7-9 is a fact so i’ll give peopele that...but I just feel like with a few pieces added that he never had he can be good to great for at least 6 years. And the playoffs this year have already showed us players like Blake Bortles and Marcus Mariota(Or Tyrod Taylor) can get into the playoffs. 

[bla bla bla]

5 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Couldn't Denver backload the contract - as long as it's Guaranteed what's really the difference for Cousins?  If Denver wants Cousins and Cousins want to play for Denver - Denver will put together a deal that offers the same total guaranteed dollars.  I don't know what Denvers long term cap situation looks like but over the course of 5 or 6 years butI'm sure they can make the numbers work pretty easily - without killing themselves.

I do think it's unlikely Cousins would take less total dollars from anyone - but I'm sure any team that wants him bad enough can make the numbers work.

Yes they can back load a deal but the Redskins would be able to match that if they want. Redskins have more cap than the Broncos so it would be hard to see them being a contender unless he's an UFA.

[Lupz27]

3 hours ago, flgreen said:

Yeah, your right, what was I thinking, teams never collude, or tamper with players, and HC's in the NFL.  Particularly when it comes to franchise QB's.

I never said the Browns would give the #1 to the Jets, I said "with a bit of compensation relief" 

I think the Jets would have to double trade like the Eagles did to get to 1.  First give something to the Colts for a 6 to 3 swap then trade to 1 via 3 with Browns, this would also require the Browns to actually be in love with Josh Allen, this is assuming they don’t sign a QB, they can’t wait till 4 to pick their QB because someone else could jump to 3 to grab Allen, Rosen, or Darnold leaving the Browns holding their Dick’s in their hands stupidly once again, BUT I could see them being more then happy with Allen, and Barkley at 3, and 4 plus more picks.

[Lupz27]

Offer the Browns Jamaal Adams, and 6 for 1st overall, Adams is replaceable, and Maye is probably better, draft a true CF type safety in the 4th round where you should find your starting Safety not at 6 overall.

[nycdan]

45 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

While I tend to agree with you, it would be unprecedented in the NFL for a '1st' rd pick, I was genuinely surprised the NFL had little to say about the Osweiler/2nd rd dp to CLE deal for nothing else but a swap of compensatory picks with HOU.  What's the difference other than the round of the DP?  Say some team drafting ahead of us had a bad contract that was hamstringing the off-season maneuvers/FA wants...we couldn't trade one of our lower DP's for the other teams 1st rd DP coupled with the bad contract?  Actually, I'm surprised this hasn't been done more often...or maybe I'm missing something?

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/03/09/brock-osweiler-trade-cleveland-browns-houston-texans

The Osweiler deal was a pure salary dump, which is common in the NBA but unusual in the NFL.  CLE got the pick in exchange for taking on Osweiler's salary, which HOU had no other way to dump.  I don't recall seeing such a large example before but I could see it happening again and there's nothing specifically wrong with it (i.e. it's not harming competitiveness or player salaries in any obvious way).

Trading a pick cheap in order to get another team to drop out of bidding on a FA is a completely different animal.  That does harm player salaries and the NFLPA would go batsh*t crazy if that went down the way it was described.

[JustInFudge]

I don't think the Jets get rid of Hack.  The guys like having him around.  He brings a lot of color to the equipment room.

 

[greenwave81]

2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

The Osweiler deal was a pure salary dump, which is common in the NBA but unusual in the NFL.  CLE got the pick in exchange for taking on Osweiler's salary, which HOU had no other way to dump.  I don't recall seeing such a large example before but I could see it happening again and there's nothing specifically wrong with it (i.e. it's not harming competitiveness or player salaries in any obvious way).

Trading a pick cheap in order to get another team to drop out of bidding on a FA is a completely different animal.  That does harm player salaries and the NFLPA would go batsh*t crazy if that went down the way it was described.

Well, I would call what HOU did 'trading a DP cheap'...while HOU wasn't seeking cap relief at the time that I recall to bid on a FA player per se, I don't see how the NFL can come down against any use by a team of available cap space as an 'asset' to use in any deal...especially after the HOU/CLE trade.

For example, say DEN really wants Cousins, but realizes they need more cap space to configure a deal that WAS won't likely match.  So could we take some less than desireable contracts off their roster for cap relief and say trade a later round DP in exchange for their #4?  I'd have a hard time believing the NFL would nix such an offer...of course, that's just an example...but until the HOU/CLE deal I hadn't noticed any deals of this sort previously.

[Untouchable]

Not sure why so many are saying the Jets will have no shot at Cousins or won’t pursue him at all.

It was widely reported that Macc tried trading for him when Geno had his jaw busted. Now he’s posted back-to-back-to-back 4,000+ yard, 25+ TD seasons while completing 67% of his passes and I’m supposed to believe that Macc won’t put on the full court press when he has $100 million to play with and arguably the worst QB situation in the league?

Let’s use our heads here.

And despite half the fanbase having a giant wad of sand stuck in their collective vaginas, the Jets are widely viewed around the league as a team on the come-up. 

If they land Cousins, add maybe 2 other building block players in FA and have a solid draft class...there’s no reason why this team can’t win 10 or 11 games next season and be right in the thick of the playoff hunt.

They’d also be set up pretty damn nicely for when Brady and Belichick walk out the door within the next 2 years and the AFC East is up for grabs.