Crying Over Spilled Milk (Jets QB Situation)

[Bruce Harper]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

So it's pretty clear I've been doing ALOT of crying over spilled milk since FA started. 

--I'm deeply disappointed in this franchise for failing to get a definitive answer at QB in the best FA QB available in ages, Kirk Cousins.  Yes, it would have been grossly expensive, but yes, we could (and IMO should) have afforded it.  It's not every day a 4,500+ Yard 28+ TD Passer becomes available to a team with as horrid a QB record as us.  Our failure to spend what it takes is a symptom of this franchises longstanding failure at the QB position to do what it takes to be legit.

--I'm deeply disappointed in the General Manager and his horrid record of moves related to the QB position.  He's botched nearly every QB-related decision he's made.  Sure, Fitz-as-backup turnout out fine, but then he horribly bungled the Fitz resigning.  He drafted Petty (bust) in the high 4th.  He drafted (reached) Hackenberg, then Hackenshirted him his entire time here despite being the 51st pick in the draft (2nd Round).  Then he never put his foot down to make the Head Coach play the kid, to the point that a QB drafted #51 will be gone from us before he ever takes a snap in a game.  He's wasted money on placeholders (McCown) and even managed to screw up everyone favorite "tank" season.  He then doubles down on that placeholder for more then twice a reasonable market value. He failed to get Watson when Watson was sitting in his lap, ofting for....a Safety.  A good safety, but a safety.  Then he signs, sight unseen, Teddy Bridgewater, a Sanchez-esque flier.  Then he trades multiple picks that are high enough they should (under a good GM) be long term starters just to move up to get a QB.   I simply cannot have faith this man will make the right choice, and just because the wrong choice might get him fired doesn;t comfort me.  I don't want firings, I want a damn QB.

With all that said, no amount of Fishy tears will change any of it.  Not one single thing.

So trying to look forward, We're now at pick #3 in a draft widely considered to have four (or three to some) legit QB prospects.  No one can seemingly agree on which three are the best, nor can they agree on which one we should want, nor can they agree on which ones have the least/least vital flaws (and they ALL have material flaws).  If ever there was a "Danger Zone" for us picking a QB, a "Perfect Storm" of risk, this GM and this draft class appears to be it.

No one likes a downer, I get it.  And a chance at something is better than no chance at anything, I get that too.

And at the end of the day, if we draft any one of these kids, they've got to be better than starting a 87 year old Josh McCown.  I do get that, despite my bitching.

It's just so damn tiresome always being in a spot like this.  We seemingly never are in the right spot, we're always in the bad spot and have to spend a ton just to get in a sort ok'ish spot.  We're never the #1 pick in a Luck-type draft.  We're #6 in a draft full of ????. We never sign the great FA offensive player, we always sign castoffs, old men (especially old men running backs it seems, before they retire) and mediocre players our GM (who thinks he's smarter than everyone else) thinks will get better, and they almost never do.

I can't be the only one frustrated at this point.  I don't want a chance at maybe some future optimism.  I want results for a change.  Is that too much to ask for?

I suppose I better just hope all the pro-this guy and pro-that guy and pro-that other guy are ALL right, that this is 1983 all over again, with multiple future Super Bowl winner getting drafted.

I hope, for once in my damn life, we're the team that gets the good guy.  And not the team that drafts the Todd Blackledge of this draft class......

TLDR:  Sorry for all the bitching, but hopefully you understand.  

       

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I don't understand the Cousins criticism. Virtually every anecdote, leak, and story suggests we were willing to pay more than anyone. He simply didn't want to come here.

We offered 2 more mil a yr. than Min. Factor in sales tax it’s lot closer. We didn’t give him a offer he couldnt then down I know it would be a joke to offer Kirk fing cousins 35 mil a yr, but we would have a proven qb and 3 more 2nd round picks. 

[Bruce Harper]

I'm going to try to present our position in a more positive manner:

We dodged a bullet with Cousins.  He is a slightly better than average NFL starting quarterback.  Sure he's better than anything we have but he is not 90-guaranteed-million good.  That is a huge commitment, and if he was a disappointment we are stuck with him for at least three years and 90 million guaranteed.  All that time we would not be developing a young quarterback and he would be eating up a third of our cap.  

We are very likely to get someone pretty damn good at 3.   My guess is that it will be Rosen or Mayfield.*  Either one of these guys likely will be our QB for 10+ years and make us competitive on a consistent basis, long after Tom Brady retires.  I think each of them will be better than Cousins.

*Of course, if we draft Allen, I am taking back all of this optimistic crap.

[UntouchableCrew]

4 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

We offered 2 more mil a yr. than Min. Factor in sales tax it’s lot closer. We didn’t give him a offer he couldnt then down I know it would be a joke to offer Kirk fing cousins 35 mil a yr, but we would have a proven qb and 3 more 2nd round picks. 

I mean, I can't even imagine the pandemonium on the board if Mac paid 35 million a year for Cousins.

The Jets offered to make him the highest paid QB in NFL history and he wouldn't even formally meet with them. I don't think he had any interest in coming to New York, personally. He's a conservative Chrisritan with Midwestern roots. Despite what many New Yorkers think this isn't the place for everyone -- factor in a historically lower tier franchise and a dearth of offensive talent and we were always a long shot.

[jetstream23]

No matter which QB they take in the Draft we will have the best QB depth chart we've had in a long, LONG time.

• Capable, old, mentoring Vet who is a leader - McCown
• High upside, hungry, young and proven (when he played for two years) Vet who wants to compete - Bridgewater
• Extremely talented but risky, high upside Rookie - TBD

McCown knows his role.  He will be the most supportive guy if/when someone else is starting over him.  He gets it and we're still fortunate IMO to have him.  Then we have not one, but two Lottery Tickets.  If Bridgewater is healthy there is no doubt that he'll be the guy who can win the most games for us in 2018, and the Jets would still have the option to franchise tag him for 2019 if they wanted to control him/negotiate/trade him, etc.  McCown's $10M will be gone so Bridgewater on a franchise tag along with a 2nd year up-and-coming guy on a rookie deal would not be a Cap problem.

Now, it could all go to sh!t beacause, as we know, these are the Jets we're talking about.  BUT, allow yourself to consider what is possible (even if not probable)...

1. We get an Eagle situation with 2 very good, capable starters (Bridgewater and Rookie TBD).  A good problem to have.

2. We get a Patriots situation like Brady and Garrapolo where Bridgewater is playing too well to give up the starting spot (like Brady) but our rookie is as good as Garrapolo and waits several years.  The other analogy is how Rodgers waited behind Favre longer than people thought.

I'd love either of those two problems.

[Warfish]

22 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Teddy Bridgewater = Sanchez-esque? LOL at that point I was trying not to stop reading out of frustration.

Then let me be clear:  There is no evaluation criteria in which Teddy Bridgewater was better in his first two years than Mark Sanchez was in his first three years.

You can hurf a blurf all you like if it suits you, but results do not lie.  Sanchez was better in literally every single way as an early prospect.

Except Sanchez never blew out every ligament in his knee in a horrific non-contact injury.

F' sake, is there NO move of this GM the fanbase won't actually engage critical thinking skills about or find any fault with?

Fed sh*t for so long, even catfood now looks like prime rib I guess.

No one here wanted the best FA to hit the market in a decade.  4500 yards and 28 TD's osn;t good enough because something something vs winning teams in Decemeber with wind over 40 mph!

Everyoine thinks the #3 pick is perfect.  In a draft with two prospects almost everyone sees as the top.

Stepford forums is go!  Abused Fan syndrome is go!  We're golden, perfect, the GM couldn't have done better!

You're all right, this GM is perfect, the Jets are perfect, we're perfectly set up for perfection!

Doubters must be exiled!  Optimism only!

 

[Patriot Killa]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Then let me be clear:  There is no evaluation criteria in which Teddy Bridgewater was better in his first two years than Mark Sanchez was in his first three years.

You can hurf a blurf all you like if it suits you, but results do not lie.  Sanchez was better in literally every single way as an early prospect.

Except Sanchez never blew out every ligament in his knee in a horrific non-contact injury.

F' sake, is there NO move of this GM the fanbase won't actually engage critical thinking skills about or find any fault with?

Fed sh*t for so long, even catfood now looks like prime rib I guess.

No one here wanted the best FA to hit the market in a decade.  4500 yards and 28 TD's osn;t good enough because something something vs winning teams in Decemeber with wind over 40 mph!

Everyoine thinks the #3 pick is perfect.  In a draft with two prospects almost everyone sees as the top.

Stepford forums is go!  Abused Fan syndrome is go!  We're golden, perfect, the GM couldn't have done better!

You're all right, this GM is perfect, the Jets are perfect, we're perfectly set up for perfection!

Doubters must be exiled!  Optimism only!

 

Guess you missed the part where I said his draft picks haven’t been great?

[slats]

As discussed before free agency, it made no sense for Cousins to come here. He wants the opportunity to cash in again. So where was he gonna go? To a bad team playing in a northeast swamp? Or a good team playing in a dome? This was a done deal as soon as the Vikings expressed interest. And Mac knew it, hence why he was so quick to pivot when his higher offer was rejected. 

If they land a franchise QB in this year's draft, those second rounders will be forgotten. For those three picks, the Jets went from potentially being shut out of the top four QBs to having their choice from at least two of them. We'd all prefer a sure thing, but I can't criticize him simply improving his odds. 

And all the coulda-woulda-shoulda is definitely spilled milk whining, so good job on the thread title. I'm not gonna worry about what's done or what I can't control, I'm just gonna hope they surprise us all and land a real QB. 

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, slats said:

And all the coulda-woulda-shoulda is definitely spilled milk whining, so good job on the thread title.

Well, I do try and be honest when I enter full-on-2-year-old-whining mode!

Quote

I'm not gonna worry about what's done or what I can't control, I'm just gonna hope they surprise us all and land a real QB. 

I.e. not critical thinking, just la la la hope and optimism.

You're right, we don't control anything. But is there not a point of pride at some point not simply slurping up whatever sewage we get served as fans?  A point where we stop patting the GM on the back for literally screwing up every decision he's made since he came on board, especially and specifically at the QB position?

Or have we entered the land of "only bad fans complain" zone?

Of course we all "hope". Just like I hope a Super Model will decide I rock, that I'll win the lottery, and live to the age of 350 in perfect health.

Hope doesn't mean a damn thing.  Actions are what matter.

[Jetsplayer21]

7 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean, I can't even imagine the pandemonium on the board if Mac paid 35 million a year for Cousins.

The Jets offered to make him the highest paid QB in NFL history and he wouldn't even formally meet with them. I don't think he had any interest in coming to New York, personally. He's a conservative Chrisritan with Midwestern roots. Despite what many New Yorkers think this isn't the place for everyone -- factor in a historically lower tier franchise and a dearth of offensive talent and we were always a long shot.

Vikings also offered him to be highest paid qb in the league. I agree it’s a joke to think cousins making 35 mil a yr. Just as it is a joke he is the highest paid qb. Maybe he does turn down 35 mil a yr. At least we would know Mac was all in and tried. 

  You are also right about extreme lack of talent on O. A bad line and a HC who hates offense. Cousins stats would have took a hit, lowering his value for next contract. So maybe he did take the best offer, he wasn’t just turning down 2 more mil a yr.

[Sperm Edwards]

9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Yup - I like Mac but I get frustrated with him often - for instance I still can't wrap my head around the $10mm for McCown signing.  But I just don't think the guy is a moron.  I find myself defending him, probably too often and with too much ferver, because I find the hyperbole against him to be over the top.  

I'm sure he's an intelligent man, thrown into a tough situation.  He's made plenty of mistakees but he's also done some things well.  We all want the same thing here - and the next 5 weeks will be chock full of debate - mostly over 3 people and there will be a lot of noise on the side of each of them.

 

I'm sure on paper, Paul Hackett was an intelligent man. Some people are simply not cut out to be decision-makers.

Plus he was not thrown into a tough situation. He was thrown into a great situation: lots of cap room, high draft picks, opportunities for still more with assets he didn't really want (like Mo and Sheldon), and very low expectations through it all. All he had to do to win fans' hearts was spend 3 years' worth of cap flexibility to luck into a single 10-game season with no playoffs. 

He's had plenty of opportunities to build a winning roster, not to mention a solid handful of FQB opportunities, with Macc turning down every one of them over 3 wasted seasons (and counting). He's also had a legions of fans (and media support from reporters the fans ordinarily despise) who have mistaken - and continue to mistake - his calm and confident demeanor for actual competence. Every time he's made a stupid decision like passing up other opportunities in favor of Hackenberg, almost all claimed at the time, "Well he'll sink or swim because of this decision and if it doesn't work out he'll [deservedly] get fired." When he's then neither successful nor fired, somehow they're  still supportive of his continued failure of a tenure anyway.

You can blame Bowles all you want, and he certainly doesn't help any, but there's no evidence Macc thought his hiring was an unwise one (or that he wouldn't have made that exact same hire himself): the guy who recommended Bowles also recommended him, and there's every likelihood he'd have taken Casserly's HC-hiring advice.

Entering this season, Macc's miss:hit ratio, in both the draft and FA combined, hovers around 9:1, which is below a blindfolded pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey success rate. And even those he's "hit" on move the needle so insignificantly they're merely nice but still kinda shoulder-shrug hits (e.g. Leo, Adams, previously Carpenter). Meanwhile he's received a mountain of genius credit for draft picks who range from a little below average to outright useless/horrible (Shell, Burris, Peake, Mauldin, Lee, and the amazing benefit of the doubt with Hackenberg), while blame for every FA blunder is conveniently placed upon others (Revis, Mo, Fitz part II, etc.). 

All that being said, and I think this is @Warfish's idea with this thread, is through all the deserved criticism we all still hope he gets it right at #3 (i.e. I hope the right guy falls to him at #3). Not because it'll give me more confidence in our GM (it'd take more than that), or even just for the obvious reason of wanting the Jets to have a young FQB. As much as those reasons it's that I think his dopey boss(es) will keep him around for at another 3-5 years anyway, so long as he drafts a non-Hackenberg who's even just below McCown's level. Given the remote-level chance of his getting fired, it'd be nice to see a good, young QB wearing a Jets uniform.

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

You are also right about extreme lack of talent on O. A bad line and a HC who hates offense.

So what have we done to fix those problems, and how will drafting Josh Allen at #3 (having lost both #2 picks this year) fix these concerns?

[derp]

1 hour ago, peebag said:

Why worry?  Only 2 good things come out of this situation:

1 - We finally hit a decent QB in the draft or - 

2 - Mac and Cheese Bowles get canned.

easy peasy.

 

This is money.

[slats]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

I.e. not critical thinking, just la la la hope and optimism.

I guess it's just the way I'd prefer to go thru life. I have no control over the situation. Maccagnan isn't getting fired before the draft. I've been plenty critical of him and his inability to properly build a football team, particularly his lack of understanding positional value. This year, he seems to understand positional value, and put himself in position to have a choice between (at least) two of the top four QB prospects in the draft. Your reaction is to piss and moan about it, that's fine. Live your life. I'd prefer to be optimistic. 

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm sure on paper, Paul Hackett was an intelligent man. Some people are simply not cut out to be decision-makers.

Plus he was not thrown into a tough situation. He was thrown into a great situation: lots of cap room, high draft picks, opportunities for still more with assets he didn't really want (like Mo and Sheldon), and very low expectations through it all. All he had to do to win fans' hearts was spend 3 years' worth of cap flexibility to luck into a single 10-game season with no playoffs. 

He's had plenty of opportunities to build a winning roster, not to mention a solid handful of FQB opportunities, with Macc turning down every one of them over 3 wasted seasons (and counting). He's also had a legions of fans (and media support from reporters the fans ordinarily despise) who have mistaken - and continue to mistake - his calm and confident demeanor for actual competence. Every time he's made a stupid decision like passing up other opportunities in favor of Hackenberg, almost all claimed at the time, "Well he'll sink or swim because of this decision and if it doesn't work out he'll [deservedly] get fired." When he's then neither successful nor fired, somehow they're  still supportive of his continued failure of a tenure anyway.

You can blame Bowles all you want, and he certainly doesn't help any, but there's no evidence Macc thought his hiring was an unwise one (or that he wouldn't have made that exact same hire himself): the guy who recommended Bowles also recommended him, and there's every likelihood he'd have taken Casserly's HC-hiring advice.

Entering this season, Macc's miss:hit ratio, in both the draft and FA combined, hovers around 9:1, which is below a blindfolded pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey success rate. And even those he's "hit" on move the needle so insignificantly they're merely nice but still kinda shoulder-shrug hits (e.g. Leo, Adams, previously Carpenter). Meanwhile he's received a mountain of genius credit for draft picks who range from a little below average to outright useless/horrible (Shell, Burris, Peake, Mauldin, Lee, and the amazing benefit of the doubt with Hackenberg), while blame for every FA blunder is conveniently placed upon others (Revis, Mo, Fitz part II, etc.). 

All that being said, and I think this is @Warfish's idea with this thread, is through all the deserved criticism we all still hope he gets it right at #3 (i.e. I hope the right guy falls to him at #3). Not because it'll give me more confidence in our GM (it'd take more than that), or even just for the obvious reason of wanting the Jets to have a young FQB. As much as those reasons it's that I think his dopey boss(es) will keep him around for at another 3-5 years anyway, so long as he drafts a non-Hackenberg who's even just below McCown's level. Given the remote-level chance of his getting fired, it'd be nice to see a good, young QB wearing a Jets uniform.

The Perfect post.

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

So it's pretty clear I've been doing ALOT of crying over spilled milk since FA started. 

--I'm deeply disappointed in this franchise for failing to get a definitive answer at QB in the best FA QB available in ages, Kirk Cousins.  Yes, it would have been grossly expensive, but yes, we could (and IMO should) have afforded it.  It's not every day a 4,500+ Yard 28+ TD Passer becomes available to a team with as horrid a QB record as us.  Our failure to spend what it takes is a symptom of this franchises longstanding failure at the QB position to do what it takes to be legit.

--I'm deeply disappointed in the General Manager and his horrid record of moves related to the QB position.  He's botched nearly every QB-related decision he's made.  Sure, Fitz-as-backup turnout out fine, but then he horribly bungled the Fitz resigning.  He drafted Petty (bust) in the high 4th.  He drafted (reached) Hackenberg, then Hackenshirted him his entire time here despite being the 51st pick in the draft (2nd Round).  Then he never put his foot down to make the Head Coach play the kid, to the point that a QB drafted #51 will be gone from us before he ever takes a snap in a game.  He's wasted money on placeholders (McCown) and even managed to screw up everyone favorite "tank" season.  He then doubles down on that placeholder for more then twice a reasonable market value. He failed to get Watson when Watson was sitting in his lap, ofting for....a Safety.  A good safety, but a safety.  Then he signs, sight unseen, Teddy Bridgewater, a Sanchez-esque flier.  Then he trades multiple picks that are high enough they should (under a good GM) be long term starters just to move up to get a QB.   I simply cannot have faith this man will make the right choice, and just because the wrong choice might get him fired doesn;t comfort me.  I don't want firings, I want a damn QB.

With all that said, no amount of Fishy tears will change any of it.  Not one single thing.

So trying to look forward, We're now at pick #3 in a draft widely considered to have four (or three to some) legit QB prospects.  No one can seemingly agree on which three are the best, nor can they agree on which one we should want, nor can they agree on which ones have the least/least vital flaws (and they ALL have material flaws).  If ever there was a "Danger Zone" for us picking a QB, a "Perfect Storm" of risk, this GM and this draft class appears to be it.

No one likes a downer, I get it.  And a chance at something is better than no chance at anything, I get that too.

And at the end of the day, if we draft any one of these kids, they've got to be better than starting a 87 year old Josh McCown.  I do get that, despite my bitching.

It's just so damn tiresome always being in a spot like this.  We seemingly never are in the right spot, we're always in the bad spot and have to spend a ton just to get in a sort ok'ish spot.  We're never the #1 pick in a Luck-type draft.  We're #6 in a draft full of ????. We never sign the great FA offensive player, we always sign castoffs, old men (especially old men running backs it seems, before they retire) and mediocre players our GM (who thinks he's smarter than everyone else) thinks will get better, and they almost never do.

I can't be the only one frustrated at this point.  I don't want a chance at maybe some future optimism.  I want results for a change.  Is that too much to ask for?

I suppose I better just hope all the pro-this guy and pro-that guy and pro-that other guy are ALL right, that this is 1983 all over again, with multiple future Super Bowl winner getting drafted.

I hope, for once in my damn life, we're the team that gets the good guy.  And not the team that drafts the Todd Blackledge of this draft class......

TLDR:  Sorry for all the bitching, but hopefully you understand.  

       

long suffering jets fan?  aren't we all but i think you've been extraordinarily harsh on mac.  some of the points are valid but who could've predicted that the 2016 team would've imploded the way it did or even that mccown would pick this past season as his career year. and even if you want to criticise the last three top picks, except for watson and maybe mahomes the jets really weren't in any position to get guys like wentz or goff.  they had no shot at winston or mariota.  so we just gotta take the good with the bad and right now, sitting at 3, the jets are in a really good spot.  since there are 4 qb's who are ranked similarly it'll be hard to mess it up. . it all comes down to what flavor the jets get.

[LWC611]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

The jets offered Cousins more money to come here, he didn't even visit.  what else did we want them to do to try to get him? we offered him more money w/ a fully guaranteed contract.  He wanted to go to Minnesota and while I would have liked Cousins that deal was crazy and if we can hit on Teddy or the pick then we will be in much better shaped to build a contender around the QB.  This is really Macc's first chance at a QB, he took a chance on hack and it didn't work out but that wasn't a high 1st rounder.  we are now at #3, let's see how this plays out.

This....At the end of the day Cousins did not want to play for the Jets.... He did not want the pressure that comes with playing in NY for a franchise whose fans are starving for a SB.

[bealeb319]

I would take Peyton manning coming off of neck surgery over Kirk cousins any day. Cousins is alright but we might not have gotten him of we offered him 35 mil per year which would have been absurd

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app

[slats]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

It could. 

But honestly we have so many folks who (IMO) seem to think Macc is doing everything perfectly, it's silly to want to keep bashing ones head against that wall. 

Arguing about it starts becoming tiresome when so many responses are like ****** posts, and boils down to "why are you complaining, Macc is perfect and did it perfectly, it just didn't work out.  How dare you question or brilliant GM!  We're in a perfect spot now!".  

I'm surprised this forum has become so Ray Ray'esque honestly.  Every decision was good, every failure not the GM's fault, every future golden now.

/shrug

  

 

1

If we're being honest, there are only a couple people who think Mac is doing a great job. It's all dependent upon your own point of view. Overall, this is a pretty negative group and you've got plenty of company. But it seems like the most negative people here think we're populated by a bunch of pollyannas. Trust me, we're not. I'm not sure that even @Pac thinks Mac is perfect. 

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, Pac said:

Phase 2 of the rebuild is coming along quite nicely.  Future is indeed bright.

How many phases are there

[Charlie Brown]

If the Jets really really wanted Cousins like that, then they should have traded Washington for a 2nd round pick to get him and then tried to sign him accordingly. 

Yes it would be risky but it is what I would have done.................

But I have a simple rule if you don’t want to be in New York I don’t want  to pay you for the privilege.   

Under the circumstances Mac didn’t do that poorly.   

[Warfish]

19 minutes ago, slats said:

I guess it's just the way I'd prefer to go thru life. I have no control over the situation. Maccagnan isn't getting fired before the draft. I've been plenty critical of him and his inability to properly build a football team, particularly his lack of understanding positional value. This year, he seems to understand positional value, and put himself in position to have a choice between (at least) two of the top four QB prospects in the draft. Your reaction is to piss and moan about it, that's fine. Live your life. I'd prefer to be optimistic. 

I responded to this but accidentally closed my window, lol.

I'll just say this:  How people post/discuss here =/= how they go through life, nor is it a reflection of how they act or discuss non-Jets things elsewhere in life.  The number of "I wouldn't want to be you IRL" because of an opinion on football is quite the lol.

"I have no control and prefer to be optimistic" is a blanket debate killer, if you believed that, you wouldn't be here, would never post, and would have nothing to say beyond "I'm optimistic".  It's silly.

[nyjunc]

2 hours ago, isired said:

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I was just discussing acquiring sanchez on draft day.  whether someone loves him or hates him they can't question that deal top move up to get him.  it was a steal.
as far as Teddy, the only ones that complain are the ones that complain about everything.  It's a no risk signing for a guy who was highly though of as a young QB before his injury.  He may never recover and if he doesn't it doesn't hurt us but if he does then we have a potential long term starter or potential trade bait if the rookie shows promise.

Actually before his injury not even the Vikings were 100% convinced he was their guy (though he was popular amongst fans and the team/staff), but I agree it's well worth the shot.

do you have anything to back that up w/?  what would make you think after 2 years w/ the playoffs in year 2 and big improvements from him as a QB that Minnesota was not convinced about him?

21 minutes ago, LWC611 said:

This....At the end of the day Cousins did not want to play for the Jets.... He did not want the pressure that comes with playing in NY for a franchise whose fans are starving for a SB.

I will disagree on the pressure, he has a lot more pressure in Minny than he would have had here.  anything less than a SB appearances would be considered a failure since they were able to get to the title game w/ Keenum.

he signed a 3 year deal so he wants to cash in again in 3 years.  Minnesota is ready to win right now and has much more talent than us, I think that's why he wanted them and didn't really give us much of a chance.  

[batman10023]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

So it's pretty clear I've been doing ALOT of crying over spilled milk since FA started. 

--I'm deeply disappointed in this franchise for failing to get a definitive answer at QB in the best FA QB available in ages, Kirk Cousins.  Yes, it would have been grossly expensive, but yes, we could (and IMO should) have afforded it.  It's not every day a 4,500+ Yard 28+ TD Passer becomes available to a team with as horrid a QB record as us.  Our failure to spend what it takes is a symptom of this franchises longstanding failure at the QB position to do what it takes to be legit.

--I'm deeply disappointed in the General Manager and his horrid record of moves related to the QB position.  He's botched nearly every QB-related decision he's made.  Sure, Fitz-as-backup turnout out fine, but then he horribly bungled the Fitz resigning.  He drafted Petty (bust) in the high 4th.  He drafted (reached) Hackenberg, then Hackenshirted him his entire time here despite being the 51st pick in the draft (2nd Round).  Then he never put his foot down to make the Head Coach play the kid, to the point that a QB drafted #51 will be gone from us before he ever takes a snap in a game.  He's wasted money on placeholders (McCown) and even managed to screw up everyone favorite "tank" season.  He then doubles down on that placeholder for more then twice a reasonable market value. He failed to get Watson when Watson was sitting in his lap, ofting for....a Safety.  A good safety, but a safety.  Then he signs, sight unseen, Teddy Bridgewater, a Sanchez-esque flier.  Then he trades multiple picks that are high enough they should (under a good GM) be long term starters just to move up to get a QB.   I simply cannot have faith this man will make the right choice, and just because the wrong choice might get him fired doesn;t comfort me.  I don't want firings, I want a damn QB.

With all that said, no amount of Fishy tears will change any of it.  Not one single thing.

So trying to look forward, We're now at pick #3 in a draft widely considered to have four (or three to some) legit QB prospects.  No one can seemingly agree on which three are the best, nor can they agree on which one we should want, nor can they agree on which ones have the least/least vital flaws (and they ALL have material flaws).  If ever there was a "Danger Zone" for us picking a QB, a "Perfect Storm" of risk, this GM and this draft class appears to be it.

No one likes a downer, I get it.  And a chance at something is better than no chance at anything, I get that too.

And at the end of the day, if we draft any one of these kids, they've got to be better than starting a 87 year old Josh McCown.  I do get that, despite my bitching.

It's just so damn tiresome always being in a spot like this.  We seemingly never are in the right spot, we're always in the bad spot and have to spend a ton just to get in a sort ok'ish spot.  We're never the #1 pick in a Luck-type draft.  We're #6 in a draft full of ????. We never sign the great FA offensive player, we always sign castoffs, old men (especially old men running backs it seems, before they retire) and mediocre players our GM (who thinks he's smarter than everyone else) thinks will get better, and they almost never do.

I can't be the only one frustrated at this point.  I don't want a chance at maybe some future optimism.  I want results for a change.  Is that too much to ask for?

I suppose I better just hope all the pro-this guy and pro-that guy and pro-that other guy are ALL right, that this is 1983 all over again, with multiple future Super Bowl winner getting drafted.

I hope, for once in my damn life, we're the team that gets the good guy.  And not the team that drafts the Todd Blackledge of this draft class......

TLDR:  Sorry for all the bitching, but hopefully you understand.  

       

no amount of money was going to get Cousins to come here.  they were never going to win this once the Vikings got involved.

[slats]

11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I responded to this but accidentally closed my window, lol.

I'll just say this:  How people post/discuss here =/= how they go through life, nor is it a reflection of how they act or discuss non-Jets things elsewhere in life.  The number of "I wouldn't want to be you IRL" because of an opinion on football is quite the lol.

"I have no control and prefer to be optimistic" is a blanket debate killer, if you believed that, you wouldn't be here, would never post, and would have nothing to say beyond "I'm optimistic".  It's silly.

How about this: I'm perfectly content with the Jets not landing Cousins who I never expected to sign here, and I'm happy about the trade up to #3. Despite the large number of things I feel Maccagnan has done wrong, I think this he's (so far) gotten right. The trick now is to pick the right guy. I can be both hopeful and optimistic about that while simultaneously having legitimate doubts. 

I've been a Jet fan a long time and I enjoy these forums and the knuckleheads who post here, but my days of fanaticism are long gone by. I never listen to sports radio, I only put on ESPN when the Jets or draft are playing. I haven't spent a dime on this team in years. I go on vacation and happily miss games sitting on a beach somewhere. In fact, I'll be in Mexico for the draft this year, most likely out having an awesome dinner when the Jets' pick comes in. I'll find out who it is when I stumble back to my room and open the 800-page thread here bitching about it. Lol. 

[LWC611]

16 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

do you have anything to back that up w/?  what would make you think after 2 years w/ the playoffs in year 2 and big improvements from him as a QB that Minnesota was not convinced about him?

I will disagree on the pressure, he has a lot more pressure in Minny than he would have had here.  anything less than a SB appearances would be considered a failure since they were able to get to the title game w/ Keenum.

he signed a 3 year deal so he wants to cash in again in 3 years.  Minnesota is ready to win right now and has much more talent than us, I think that's why he wanted them and didn't really give us much of a chance.  

We can agree to disagree. 

[Warfish]

19 minutes ago, slats said:

.....my days of fanaticism are long gone by.

Fair enough.

[19andOhWait]

sigh 

[Thai Jet]

4 hours ago, Warfish said:

So it's pretty clear I've been doing ALOT of crying over spilled milk since FA started. 

--I'm deeply disappointed in this franchise for failing to get a definitive answer at QB in the best FA QB available in ages, Kirk Cousins.  Yes, it would have been grossly expensive, but yes, we could (and IMO should) have afforded it.  It's not every day a 4,500+ Yard 28+ TD Passer becomes available to a team with as horrid a QB record as us.  Our failure to spend what it takes is a symptom of this franchises longstanding failure at the QB position to do what it takes to be legit.

--I'm deeply disappointed in the General Manager and his horrid record of moves related to the QB position.  He's botched nearly every QB-related decision he's made.  Sure, Fitz-as-backup turnout out fine, but then he horribly bungled the Fitz resigning.  He drafted Petty (bust) in the high 4th.  He drafted (reached) Hackenberg, then Hackenshirted him his entire time here despite being the 51st pick in the draft (2nd Round).  n no chance at anything, I get that too.

And at the end of the day, if we draft any one of these kids, they've got to be better than starting a 87 year old Josh McCown.  I do get that, despite my bitching.

 

       

Just what we needed, another thread like this. Get over it WF. To Cousins it wasn't a question of money. He wants to win now, THAT'S one reason he chose Minny. It had NOTHING to do with Macc . He liked the organization and the area better than NY/NJ. Hard to fault him but again there was NOTHING Macc could have done.  It wasn't about the money. It was out of Macc's hands.

Petty isn't the answer yes, but how many 4th rounders are ? Don't forget 100 other players were drafted ahead of him remember? 

As far as Hack, YES I'll easily give you that. Hell yes. Most of us here knew it was a wasted pick when Macc selected him.

McCown was a decent pickup last year. Perhaps too good. If he were more inept we would have had to trade up to #3. lol

Macc HAS to get this #3 pick correct. Too much riding on it. We'll know in the next 2 years.

For now...get over the Cousins thing.

 

 

 

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 

Plus he was not thrown into a tough situation. He was thrown into a great situation: lots of cap room, high draft picks, opportunities for still more with assets he didn't really want (like Mo and Sheldon), and very low expectations through it all. All he had to do to win fans' hearts was spend 3 years' worth of cap flexibility to luck into a single 10-game season with no playoffs. 

He's had plenty of opportunities to build a winning roster, not to mention a solid handful of FQB opportunities, with Macc turning down every one of them over 3 wasted seasons (and counting). He's also had a legions of fans (and media support from reporters the fans ordinarily despise) who have mistaken - and continue to mistake - his calm and confident demeanor for actual competence. Every time he's made a stupid decision like passing up other opportunities in favor of Hackenberg, almost all claimed at the time, "Well he'll sink or swim because of this decision and if it doesn't work out he'll [deservedly] get fired." When he's then neither successful nor fired, somehow they're  still supportive of his continued failure of a tenure anyway.

You can blame Bowles all you want, and he certainly doesn't help any, but there's no evidence Macc thought his hiring was an unwise one (or that he wouldn't have made that exact same hire himself): the guy who recommended Bowles also recommended him, and there's every likelihood he'd have taken Casserly's HC-hiring advice.

Entering this season, Macc's miss:hit ratio, in both the draft and FA combined, hovers around 9:1, which is below a blindfolded pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey success rate. And even those he's "hit" on move the needle so insignificantly they're merely nice but still kinda shoulder-shrug hits (e.g. Leo, Adams, previously Carpenter). Meanwhile he's received a mountain of genius credit for draft picks who range from a little below average to outright useless/horrible (Shell, Burris, Peake, Mauldin, Lee, and the amazing benefit of the doubt with Hackenberg), while blame for every FA blunder is conveniently placed upon others (Revis, Mo, Fitz part II, etc.). 

All that being said, and I think this is @Warfish's idea with this thread, is through all the deserved criticism we all still hope he gets it right at #3 (i.e. I hope the right guy falls to him at #3). Not because it'll give me more confidence in our GM (it'd take more than that), or even just for the obvious reason of wanting the Jets to have a young FQB. As much as those reasons it's that I think his dopey boss(es) will keep him around for at another 3-5 years anyway, so long as he drafts a non-Hackenberg who's even just below McCown's level. Given the remote-level chance of his getting fired, it'd be nice to see a good, young QB wearing a Jets uniform.

Mac was absolutely thrown into a very tough situation that only got worse with unexpected success.

He was hired with a lot of cap space and an aging veteran roster and because his predecessor was fired for trying to rebuild he was given a mandate to spend all of the money and attempt to win - all under the guise of "competitive rebuild" - this was a team that needed to be blown up three years ago - but our PR first owner didn't have the stomach for it...

He did enough to get the team to 10 wins - Unfortunately, the success of year 1 - forced him all in on year 2 - the horrible FitzMagic situation forced him to overpay a below average QB (yes, he had ZERO choice but to pay him) and their failure caused the lockerroom to explode and the team to fall apart...

Last year he began the rebuild he should have in the first place and if feels like things are moving in the right direction.  

In a vacum I agree, he's done a terrible job as the team has regressed since taking over - but I, personally, don't look at it that way - I try to view it as if I were given that job and things fell the way did for him it's not entirely on him.  

With all of that said - he's made a lot head scratching mistakes.  Hack being the big miss and the steadfast adherence to BPA.

I guess my point is, I belive the team is on the proper course right now and he's done enough good to give me faith that he's not in over his head and will continue to right the ship.

[isired]

do you have anything to back that up w/?  what would make you think after 2 years w/ the playoffs in year 2 and big improvements from him as a QB that Minnesota was not convinced about him?

I just remember hearing it in 2015, and reading leading up the injury that he needed to have a good year, and remember that the Vikings got to the 2015 NFC Championship game with Bridgewater performing as a game manager, they didn't give him the opportunity to make plays or to hurt them trying to do so. I'm not saying he was bad, didn't mean to imply that, but in 16 starts he threw for 3,231 yards, 14 touchdowns, 9 interceptions and a 65.3 completion percentage in 2015 - not quite Keenum-type numbers (14 starts / 3,547 yds /22 TD / 7 INT / 67.6%).

[#27TheDominator]

50 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Mac was absolutely thrown into a very tough situation that only got worse with unexpected success.

He was hired with a lot of cap space and an aging veteran roster and because his predecessor was fired for trying to rebuild he was given a mandate to spend all of the money and attempt to win - all under the guise of "competitive rebuild" - this was a team that needed to be blown up three years ago - but our PR first owner didn't have the stomach for it...

He did enough to get the team to 10 wins - Unfortunately, the success of year 1 - forced him all in on year 2 - the horrible FitzMagic situation forced him to overpay a below average QB (yes, he had ZERO choice but to pay him) and their failure caused the lockerroom to explode and the team to fall apart...

Last year he began the rebuild he should have in the first place and if feels like things are moving in the right direction.  

In a vacum I agree, he's done a terrible job as the team has regressed since taking over - but I, personally, don't look at it that way - I try to view it as if I were given that job and things fell the way did for him it's not entirely on him.  

With all of that said - he's made a lot head scratching mistakes.  Hack being the big miss and the steadfast adherence to BPA.

I guess my point is, I belive the team is on the proper course right now and he's done enough good to give me faith that he's not in over his head and will continue to right the ship.

The way things fell?  You mean he was unlucky that his draft picks and free agent signings have generally sucked?  Poor baby. 

Where is this aging roster?  Brick and Mangold?  Were they replaced?  Harris, Cromartie and Revis?  He signed them to big deals. Fitzpatrick, Marshall, Forte and McCown?  Idzik didn't leave him those guys. sh*t, he even brought back Kerley.  He replaced Ivory with Forte and Brick with Clady, a guy who was more ready to retire than Brick.  Was Calvin Pace really that tough to replace? He replaced Geno/Sanchez with Fitzpatrick and then McCown.  Getting younger?

I can understand the learning on the job aspect and the idea that they wanted to compete in year 1 - even though I think that narrative is overblown around here.  OTOH, give any incoming GM a ton of cap space and #6 overall and they are stoked.  I sure would be.  That is why all these names are flocking to the Browns. 

[Warfish]

57 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

Just what we needed, another thread like this. Get over it WF.

Um......no.

57 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

To Cousins it wasn't a question of money. He wants to win now, THAT'S one reason he chose Minny.

Mate, it's ALWAYS a question of money.  When a player tells you it wasn't about the money.....it was about the money.

There was a price where Cousins would have been a Jet.

57 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

It had NOTHING to do with Macc . He liked the organization and the area better than NY/NJ. Hard to fault him but again there was NOTHING Macc could have done.  It wasn't about the money. It was out of Macc's hands.

Poor Macc, everything is just so hard, and outside his control, we should pity him and not be critical, lol.

57 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

Petty isn't the answer yes, but how many 4th rounders are ? Don't forget 100 other players were drafted ahead of him remember? 

Agreed.  If it were just Petty, I'd have no complaint.

57 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

As far as Hack, YES I'll easily give you that.

How kind of you to admit drafting a QB at #51 then never playing him even in the most garbage of garbage time then (presumably) cutting him before his rookie contract is even over.......might rank as a "error" on Macc's resume.

57 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

McCown was a decent pickup last year. Perhaps too good. If he were more inept we would have had to trade up to #3. lol

Just no.  There was no need to pick up McCown then, and no need to pickup McCown (for $10 MILLION) now.

We had the #51 pick in Hackenberg who (it seems) sucks, and a year we were ok with tanking.  Why on earth pick up some JAG 198 year old veteran QB at all?  Go all in on Hack ffs.  If it works, great, problem solved.  If it doesn't, great, the tank worked and we're set.

Bringing him back, at a value well above any realistic value, is just borderline insanity. If we want a Coach, hire a Coach.  Don;t waste a roster slot of a Coach/QB.

57 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

Macc HAS to get this #3 pick correct. Too much riding on it. We'll know in the next 2 years.

So we can talk again about firing Macc in March of....lets see......2020 then?

57 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

For now...get over the Cousins thing.

Whats done is done.  The Vikings look set at QB for years, we.......have the #3 Draft Pick.

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

The way things fell?  You mean he was unlucky that his draft picks and free agent signings have generally sucked?  Poor baby. 

Where is this aging roster?  Brick and Mangold?  Were they replaced?  Harris, Cromartie and Revis?  He signed them to big deals. Fitzpatrick, Marshall, Forte and McCown?  Idzik didn't leave him those guys. sh*t, he even brought back Kerley.  He replaced Ivory with Forte and Brick with Clady, a guy who was more ready to retire than Brick.  Was Calvin Pace really that tough to replace? He replaced Geno/Sanchez with Fitzpatrick and then McCown.  Getting younger?

I can understand the learning on the job aspect and the idea that they wanted to compete in year 1 - even though I think that narrative is overblown around here.  OTOH, give any incoming GM a ton of cap space and #6 overall and they are stoked.  I sure would be.  That is why all these names are flocking to the Browns. 

- his draft picks have not generally sucked - although not exceptional they've been solid..

- So are you saying two years ago it wasn't an aging roster? that two years later needed to be purged?

I think my point aligns with yours (sort of) in that he did sign thos deals with Fitz, Marhall, Forte ect...it's my contention and I feel strongly about it - that his mandate, from ownerhship was to "win-now" rather than rebuild. When in reality the whole thing should have been blown up when he started (which is what Idzik was trying to do)

He didn't have the leeway to bring in young "potential" - and under those circumstance he built a team that won 10 games.

[Dcronin]

This is just general negativity and whining.

1. We offered the most money to Cousins. He said no. That's his choice. He went with a team that was a game away from Superbowl last year.

2. Even if and when the Bills slide in front of us, we are still sitting with an above-average chance of getting a decent starting QB for next year or year after. That's a great thing. It cost us 3 2nd rounders. Who gives a crap about our second round picks. They usually blow.

Feel good, man!