Dilfer on Rosen

[nico002]

Pretty much a must listen 

 

[LIJetsFan]

I've been worried and a doubter for a while now.  I'm just praying someone picks either Allen or Mayfield ahead of us, making Mac's section a no brainer.  Mac does well when it's a no brainer, otherwise not so much.            

[JoJoTownsell1]

I'm very happy we moved up to 3. While being a Darnold guy from day 1, I will be more than happy with either Rosen or Allen and would convince myself that I am happy with Mayfield if that happens...which it won't. 

[T0mShane]

Its unfortunate Dilfer isn’t on ESPN anymore because he’s always good this time of year. That was really interesting stuff about Rosen, and it’s kinda what you can surmise from the reports you read: he’s an off-putting dude who has no patience for the legions of stronzos that hang around football programs, but that doesn’t mean he won’t be good. Brady is a fcking assshole. So is Peyton. So is Rodgers. So are Rivers and Roethlisberger. Quarterbacks have to be a little bit sociopathic to be any good. 

All that said, you can also imagine how that will play with Bowles, who doesn’t want to be challenged at all, and with Bates who doesn’t seem to have many friends within the league to start with. And if Rosen needs to be in a stable environment where the coaches have a coherent plan every day to make him a better player, he’s not going to get that here. The Giants are his best bet, where Shurmur and Mike Shula are perfectionist quarterback nerds who won’t be pushed around by a rookie. 

[Lupz27]

Oh man Rosen vs Manish will be gold, shame won’t happen as the Giants won’t let this kid drop any further then 2.

[sciond]

well that certainly makes Mac's decision tougher

[Obrien2Toon]

No way he goes past 2, to whoever is there

Im resigned to the fact we are getting Allen

about 90% positive that’s our guy

[Patriot Killa]

23 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Its unfortunate Dilfer isn’t on ESPN anymore because he’s always good this time of year. That was really interesting stuff about Rosen, and it’s kinda what you can surmise from the reports you read: he’s an off-putting dude who has no patience for the legions of stronzos that hang around football programs, but that doesn’t mean he won’t be good. Brady is a fcking assshole. So is Peyton. So is Rodgers. So are Rivers and Roethlisberger. Quarterbacks have to be a little bit sociopathic to be any good. 

All that said, you can also imagine how that will play with Bowles, who doesn’t want to be challenged at all, and with Bates who doesn’t seem to have many friends within the league to start with. And if Rosen needs to be in a stable environment where the coaches have a coherent plan every day to make him a better player, he’s not going to get that here. The Giants are his best bet, where Shurmur and Mike Shula are perfectionist quarterback nerds who won’t be pushed around by a rookie. 

And you know, I have to agree with you there. His best situation is with the Giants. It really is..but with that said...

F*ck what’s in his best interests..I need this guy in Green and White lol.

[Lupz27]

1 minute ago, Obrien2Toon said:

No way he goes past 2, to whoever is there

Im resigned to the fact we are getting Allen

about 90% positive that’s our guy

Take Barkley, and call Cleveland saying they have 15 minutes to make a Barkley + for Darnold happen.

[jetstream23]

7 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Take Barkley, and call Cleveland saying they have 15 minutes to make a Barkley + for Darnold happen.

lol

Could you imagine? Like when the Chargers took Eli and held the Giants hostage?

[SayNoToDMC]

Going to listen before I pass out but I think the kid is flake 

[Gangrene]

8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Its unfortunate Dilfer isn’t on ESPN anymore because he’s always good this time of year. That was really interesting stuff about Rosen, and it’s kinda what you can surmise from the reports you read: he’s an off-putting dude who has no patience for the legions of stronzos that hang around football programs, but that doesn’t mean he won’t be good. Brady is a fcking assshole. So is Peyton. So is Rodgers. So are Rivers and Roethlisberger. Quarterbacks have to be a little bit sociopathic to be any good. 

All that said, you can also imagine how that will play with Bowles, who doesn’t want to be challenged at all, and with Bates who doesn’t seem to have many friends within the league to start with. And if Rosen needs to be in a stable environment where the coaches have a coherent plan every day to make him a better player, he’s not going to get that here. The Giants are his best bet, where Shurmur and Mike Shula are perfectionist quarterback nerds who won’t be pushed around by a rookie. 

All legitimate but I suspect Gettleman is not going QB and even if I miss on that, outspoken Rosen doesn't seem like the Giants way to me. If they go qb, it would be Darnold or Allen...never straying from the football script. "One or two plays I'd like to have back. I'm proud of the way our guys never gave up. I have to look at film, we're going to bounce back from today's loss...we are still in the playoff hunt."

[jgb]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Its unfortunate Dilfer isn’t on ESPN anymore because he’s always good this time of year. That was really interesting stuff about Rosen, and it’s kinda what you can surmise from the reports you read: he’s an off-putting dude who has no patience for the legions of stronzos that hang around football programs, but that doesn’t mean he won’t be good. Brady is a fcking assshole. So is Peyton. So is Rodgers. So are Rivers and Roethlisberger. Quarterbacks have to be a little bit sociopathic to be any good. 

All that said, you can also imagine how that will play with Bowles, who doesn’t want to be challenged at all, and with Bates who doesn’t seem to have many friends within the league to start with. And if Rosen needs to be in a stable environment where the coaches have a coherent plan every day to make him a better player, he’s not going to get that here. The Giants are his best bet, where Shurmur and Mike Shula are perfectionist quarterback nerds who won’t be pushed around by a rookie. 

Rosen will get frustrated as Hell with Todd "What's an Offense" Bowles who doesn't hold the chuckleheads and stronzos (love that word) on the team accountable.

[dbatesman]

Dilfer once called Mark Sanchez an “alpha male.”

[jgb]

1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

Dilfer once called Mark Sanchez an “alpha male.”

And Abraham Lincoln failed to hold the Union together in 1861. What's your point?  

[Patriot Killa]

2 hours ago, Gangrene said:

All legitimate but I suspect Gettleman is not going QB and even if I miss on that, outspoken Rosen doesn't seem like the Giants way to me. If they go qb, it would Darnold or Allen...never straying from the football script. "One or two plays I'd like to have back. I'm proud of the way our guys never gave up. I have to look at film, we're going to bounce back from today's loss...we are still in the playoff hunt."

The more I dwell on it, the more I have a gut feeling it’s Rosen or trade out..

hope im wrong.

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

I've been worried and a doubter for a while now.  I'm just praying someone picks either Allen or Mayfield ahead of us, making Mac's section a no brainer.  Mac does well when it's a no brainer, otherwise not so much.            

Why would other GM's pass on what is essentially "no brainer" QB picks? 

Maybe Macc should use his brain and get this QB situation correct no matter the QB order. It's more than just drafting one. Do we have the correct coaching personnel? Does this QB even fit the scheme? Do we have the proper targets...etc.? 

A QB will be picked and it better be the correct one. I dont care if he even double dips because I would like to see Lauletta on this team and the Jets can cut McCown, Petty and Hackenberg and can move forward with Bridgewater, #3 pick and Lauletta. 

Mike Shannahan and that GM gave up all of that draft capital for RG3 and still picked Cousins in the 4th. Cousins ended up being the better of the QB's. 

As long as we get a QB it wont matter how it happened, but most of the time it comes down to a GM using his brain. 

 

[T0mShane]

6 hours ago, Gangrene said:

All legitimate but I suspect Gettleman is not going QB and even if I miss on that, outspoken Rosen doesn't seem like the Giants way to me. If they go qb, it would Darnold or Allen...never straying from the football script. "One or two plays I'd like to have back. I'm proud of the way our guys never gave up. I have to look at film, we're going to bounce back from today's loss...we are still in the playoff hunt."

I’m of the belief that the Giants will take Rosen or trade out. I don’t think Rosen’s personality conflicts with Gettleman’s (presumably) buttoned-up approach in that I don’t think Rosen is unserious in the way Mayfield appears to be. I don’t think they take Allen because Gettleman keeps stressing how crucial it is to hit on this pick, and Allen is a massive gamble. If I was them, and Shurmur (for any reason) didn’t like Rosen, I’d take the two ones and two twos from Buffalo. I mean, their draft haul can start out like this:

1.2: Saquon Barkley/Quenton Nelson

2.2: Billy Price

 

-or-

 

1.12: Harold Landry

1. 22: Roquan Smith

2.34 Billy Price/James Daniels

2.53 Nick Chubb

2.56 Mason Rudolph 

 

[Villain The Foe]

4 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Dilfer once called Mark Sanchez an “alpha male.”

Your comment reminded me of this. 

MAY 07, 2015

ESPN's Todd McShay projects PSU QB Christian Hackenberg as top pick in 2016 draft

BY MATT MULLIN 
PhillyVoice Staff

•  
•  
•  
•  
•  
•  

PENN STATE College Football

from 

GENE J. PUSKAR/AP, FILE

Penn State Quarterback Christian Hackenberg

It's May. The 2015 NFL Draft isn't even a week old yet. Needless to say, it's way too early to start speculating about next year's draft, but don't tell that to ESPN's Todd McShay. On Thursday, McShay unveiled his "Way-too-early 2016 NFL mock draft" (Insider) and normally I'd be mocking the idea of such an early prognostication, but something about it immediately caught my eye.

That "something" is exactly the reason these types of stories exist. They're not meant to accurately predict if player X will be selected by team Y, but to start a conversation about why player X would be a fit for team Y than player Z. And in that regard, McShay nailed this one.

He's got a quarterback going first overall ... to the Redskins ... who already have RGIII, Colt McCoy and Kirk Cousins. Tell me more, Todd.

However, it was none of those things that really drew me in. It was the name of the school next to the projected top pick: Penn State. 

That's right, McShay's No. 1-overall pick is Nittany Lions quarterback Christian Hackenberg. And if you think McShay is doing this just to get page views, you should know that he's not the first to suggest the idea of Hackenberg being the first pick.

Prior to his team's game against Penn State last September, UMass coach Mark Whipple, a former NFL assistant who spent time with the Eagles, Steelers and Browns, had the following to say:

"He's going to be the first player picked. If he could come out this year, he'd be the first player picked," Whipple said, later adding that Hackenberg "just can make every throw. ... He's just got it all."  [nfl.com]

Remember, this is by no means written in stone. It'll change multiple times between now and then end of the college football season, and then a few more times between then and the actual draft. It'd be more appropriate to say it's written in dry sand on a windy beach. And to McShay's credit, he's upfront with that fact right off the bat, giving the following disclaimer:

• I have not done full tape studies on any of these players yet. We will begin going through the 2016 class next week and produce preseason scouting evaluations that will run in August. I made picks here based on what I've been able to see from these players in person, on TV and on limited tape and also what I've heard from league sources.

• The draft order below was generated for us by Football Outsiders, using their early projected records for the 2015 season.

Basically, he's warning the reader not too put a lot of stock in what follows because, let's be honest, doing a mock draft is pointless as it is, but doing one a five months before the season even starts is borderline ridiculous. 

Nonetheless, I was interested to see what McShay had to say about Hackenberg, since his 2014 numbers don't quite scream first-overall pick.

 

 

	YDS	YPA	TD	INT	COMP %	RUSH TD
2013 (FR)	2,955	7.5	20	10	58.9	4
2014 (SO)	2,977	6.2	12	15	55.8	0

 

Here's McShay, via ESPN Insider:

We don't yet know what the future holds for Robert Griffin III, but if the projected records here from Football Outsiders come true, it's safe to assume Washington might be looking for a new franchise quarterback. Hackenberg struggled in 2014 with a 12-touchdown, 15-interception season, but he's a big-time talent with a pro-style skill set.  [ESPN.com]

So after taking a step back in 2014, McShay sees Hackenberg having a much better 2015, which he'll need if he hopes to join defensive end Courtney Brown (2000) and running back Ki-Jana Carter* (1995) as the only Penn State players ever to be selected with the top pick.

*Carter and Brown combined to play 15 NFL seasons, but neither ever made a Pro Bowl.

Penn State hasn't had a first round pick since Jared Odrick went 28th overall to the Dolphins in 2010. The last time a Nittany Lion went in the top 10 of the first round was in 2007, when Levi Brown went fifth overall to the Cardinals.

It will certainly be interesting to follow second-year coach James Franklin and his team this season, because if you have a quarterback projected to be the No. 1 pick -- or even a top-10 pick -- like Hackenberg, odds are you'll win some games.

And while we're talking about this infuriatingly early mock draft, why not take a look at what McShay thinks the future holds for the Eagles, who, according to Football Outsiders, will have the 19th pick in 2016:

Su'a Cravens, S, USC: The Eagles need to continue to improve their secondary, and we know how much Chip Kelly likes Pac-12 players. Cravens has the size (6-1, 225 pounds) of an in-the-box safety who can also play some weakside linebacker. He has trouble covering the quickest slot receivers, but he can hold up in coverage for the most part because of his length and instincts.

We don't even know how this year's picks are going to pan out -- hell, up until last year we didn't even know if Brandon Graham was going to pan out -- so I'm going to wait until I've actually seen Cravens play* before deciding whether or not I like the pick. 

*That's my way of saying I hadn't heard of the guy until today. At least I'm being honest.

And by the time that happens, McShay will probably have them picking someone else and we'll get to do this all over again.

[jack48]

6 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

I've been worried and a doubter for a while now.  I'm just praying someone picks either Allen or Mayfield ahead of us, making Mac's section a no brainer.  Mac does well when it's a no brainer, otherwise not so much.            

I like that phrase "no brainer."  When you look at it literally, it is exactly what Macc has been doing to date---demonstrating that he has no brain.  The coffee thing has bugged me from Day One.

[jack48]

5 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Dilfer once called Mark Sanchez an “alpha male.”

he meant ALF Male

[T0mShane]

5 hours ago, jgb said:

Rosen will get frustrated as Hell with Todd "What's an Offense" Bowles who doesn't hold the chuckleheads and stronzos (love that word) on the team accountable.

This is 100% true. As Dilfer said, Rosen bristles at authority figures who aren’t as smart as him, and he’s going to come to the Jets where literally everyone coaching him is deeply unqualified for the jobs they have, and whom are all effectively lame ducks. Recipe for disaster.

[GATA]

Do I want a charismatic loser or an a$$hole winner? 

I think I’ll take the a$$hole.

Thanks

[k-met57]

33 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Your comment reminded me of this. 

MAY 07, 2015

ESPN's Todd McShay projects PSU QB Christian Hackenberg as top pick in 2016 draft

BY MATT MULLIN 
PhillyVoice Staff

•  
•  
•  
•  
•  
•  

PENN STATE College Football

from 

GENE J. PUSKAR/AP, FILE

Penn State Quarterback Christian Hackenberg

It's May. The 2015 NFL Draft isn't even a week old yet. Needless to say, it's way too early to start speculating about next year's draft, but don't tell that to ESPN's Todd McShay. On Thursday, McShay unveiled his "Way-too-early 2016 NFL mock draft" (Insider) and normally I'd be mocking the idea of such an early prognostication, but something about it immediately caught my eye.

That "something" is exactly the reason these types of stories exist. They're not meant to accurately predict if player X will be selected by team Y, but to start a conversation about why player X would be a fit for team Y than player Z. And in that regard, McShay nailed this one.

He's got a quarterback going first overall ... to the Redskins ... who already have RGIII, Colt McCoy and Kirk Cousins. Tell me more, Todd.

However, it was none of those things that really drew me in. It was the name of the school next to the projected top pick: Penn State. 

That's right, McShay's No. 1-overall pick is Nittany Lions quarterback Christian Hackenberg. And if you think McShay is doing this just to get page views, you should know that he's not the first to suggest the idea of Hackenberg being the first pick.

Prior to his team's game against Penn State last September, UMass coach Mark Whipple, a former NFL assistant who spent time with the Eagles, Steelers and Browns, had the following to say:

"He's going to be the first player picked. If he could come out this year, he'd be the first player picked," Whipple said, later adding that Hackenberg "just can make every throw. ... He's just got it all."  [nfl.com]

Remember, this is by no means written in stone. It'll change multiple times between now and then end of the college football season, and then a few more times between then and the actual draft. It'd be more appropriate to say it's written in dry sand on a windy beach. And to McShay's credit, he's upfront with that fact right off the bat, giving the following disclaimer:

• I have not done full tape studies on any of these players yet. We will begin going through the 2016 class next week and produce preseason scouting evaluations that will run in August. I made picks here based on what I've been able to see from these players in person, on TV and on limited tape and also what I've heard from league sources.

• The draft order below was generated for us by Football Outsiders, using their early projected records for the 2015 season.

Basically, he's warning the reader not too put a lot of stock in what follows because, let's be honest, doing a mock draft is pointless as it is, but doing one a five months before the season even starts is borderline ridiculous. 

Nonetheless, I was interested to see what McShay had to say about Hackenberg, since his 2014 numbers don't quite scream first-overall pick.

 

 

	YDS	YPA	TD	INT	COMP %	RUSH TD
2013 (FR)	2,955	7.5	20	10	58.9	4
2014 (SO)	2,977	6.2	12	15	55.8	0

 

Here's McShay, via ESPN Insider:

We don't yet know what the future holds for Robert Griffin III, but if the projected records here from Football Outsiders come true, it's safe to assume Washington might be looking for a new franchise quarterback. Hackenberg struggled in 2014 with a 12-touchdown, 15-interception season, but he's a big-time talent with a pro-style skill set.  [ESPN.com]

So after taking a step back in 2014, McShay sees Hackenberg having a much better 2015, which he'll need if he hopes to join defensive end Courtney Brown (2000) and running back Ki-Jana Carter* (1995) as the only Penn State players ever to be selected with the top pick.

*Carter and Brown combined to play 15 NFL seasons, but neither ever made a Pro Bowl.

Penn State hasn't had a first round pick since Jared Odrick went 28th overall to the Dolphins in 2010. The last time a Nittany Lion went in the top 10 of the first round was in 2007, when Levi Brown went fifth overall to the Cardinals.

It will certainly be interesting to follow second-year coach James Franklin and his team this season, because if you have a quarterback projected to be the No. 1 pick -- or even a top-10 pick -- like Hackenberg, odds are you'll win some games.

And while we're talking about this infuriatingly early mock draft, why not take a look at what McShay thinks the future holds for the Eagles, who, according to Football Outsiders, will have the 19th pick in 2016:

Su'a Cravens, S, USC: The Eagles need to continue to improve their secondary, and we know how much Chip Kelly likes Pac-12 players. Cravens has the size (6-1, 225 pounds) of an in-the-box safety who can also play some weakside linebacker. He has trouble covering the quickest slot receivers, but he can hold up in coverage for the most part because of his length and instincts.

We don't even know how this year's picks are going to pan out -- hell, up until last year we didn't even know if Brandon Graham was going to pan out -- so I'm going to wait until I've actually seen Cravens play* before deciding whether or not I like the pick. 

*That's my way of saying I hadn't heard of the guy until today. At least I'm being honest.

And by the time that happens, McShay will probably have them picking someone else and we'll get to do this all over again.

dude...thats an article from May. Geno was also a top pick in May, so was Brady Quinn most likely....these too early draft analysis are rarely accurate....players and things change.

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, k-met57 said:

dude...thats an article from May. Geno was also a top pick in May, so was Brady Quinn most likely....these too early draft analysis are rarely accurate....players and things change.

Okay.... I basically told the person that I was quoting that his comment reminded me of this article. 

It's obvious that the analysis was inaccurate because it wasnt really analysis as it was more of an opinion piece. 

 

[Augustiniak]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This is 100% true. As Dilfer said, Rosen bristles at authority figures who aren’t as smart as him, and he’s going to come to the Jets where literally everyone coaching him is deeply unqualified for the jobs they have, and whom are all effectively lame ducks. Recipe for disaster.

Let's be honest.  Mayfield or Rosen on the jets means the end of bowles.  He can't handle either guy.  And bowles probably wasn't in favor of trading up anyway, it precluded drafting defense in the first round once and two times in the second.  This is mccagnan teaming up with the owners to get a quarterback who can win and draw attention to the jets.  Bates is much more involved in this process than bowles, and i get the feeling bowles is on the outs unless they draft allen.

i definitely seem to be in the minority on this board but i think they traded up to 3 to get either Rosen or mayfield.  I think mayfield will be a star in this league and in particular will thrive in bates' offense.  Both guys have plenty of arm strength for the meadowlands and allen's style of play isn't what bates is looking for.  Mayfield and Rosen are rhythm, precision passers and that's the wco, and i think we're getting Rosen if he's there and if not, mayfield.  I think the giants take Rosen or trade to buffalo and who knows who they'll pick.  

[dbatesman]

40 minutes ago, jack48 said:

he meant ALF Male

I don’t know what this means, but it is possibly my favorite post ever

[sec101row23]

Having been around the Nike Elite 11 competitions a lot, I remember Rosen getting criticism for his attitude.  He was questioning some play calls at times, acted as if he was Peyton Mannng already.  BUT, it was a competition setting, and it was competition.  Rosen wanted be be the unquestioned #1 guy in that group.  I remember some of the other coaches saying his football IQ was off the charts for a kid that age, and picked up the playbook as fast as anyone ever has at that competition.  This notion that because he comes from money that he will somehow not have the desire to excel is comical.  Kid wants to compete and be the best, plain and simple.  

 

I thought back in August that Rosen and Darnold were the two best prospects in this draft and then a clear drop to the next few.  Still feel that way.  Jets would be extremely fortunate to end up with Rosen.  

[Sonny Werblin]

52 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This is 100% true. As Dilfer said, Rosen bristles at authority figures who aren’t as smart as him, and he’s going to come to the Jets where literally everyone coaching him is deeply unqualified for the jobs they have, and whom are all effectively lame ducks. Recipe for disaster.

Ummmm.... he didn't say that. That may be a talking point for criticism of Rosen, but Dilfer did not say it in that clip.

[Barkus]

Bowles- ok, josh there is only 1 minute and 20 seconds left in the first half and we have 2 timeouts so we are just going to take a knee couple times and run out the clock ok?

rosen- are you fackin kidding me?!? (Throws his Gatorade cup at bowles)

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Having been around the Nike Elite 11 competitions a lot, I remember Rosen getting criticism for his attitude.  He was questioning some play calls at times, acted as if he was Peyton Mannng already.  BUT, it was a competition setting, and it was competition.  Rosen wanted be be the unquestioned #1 guy in that group.  I remember some of the other coaches saying his football IQ was off the charts for a kid that age, and picked up the playbook as fast as anyone ever has at that competition.  This notion that because he comes from money that he will somehow not have the desire to excel is comical.  Kid wants to compete and be the best, plain and simple.  

 

I thought back in August that Rosen and Darnold were the two best prospects in this draft and then a clear drop to the next few.  Still feel that way.  Jets would be extremely fortunate to end up with Rosen.  

It would be a surprise if either is available at 3.  

[sec101row23]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

It would be a surprise if either is available at 3.  

Agreed.  That’s why I think the Jets would be extremely fortunate if Rosen was available.  They are the two safest QB prospects in this draft.  

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Ummmm.... he didn't say that. That may be a talking point for criticism of Rosen, but Dilfer did not say it in that clip.

Not verbatim, no.

[Sonny Werblin]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Not verbatim, no.

LOL. I'm not trying to be a dick, but he didn't even say it "non-verbatimly". 

[T0mShane]

Just now, Sonny Werblin said:

LOL. I'm not trying to be a dick, but he didn't even say it "non-verbatimly". 

No worries. That’s what I took from Dilfer’s discussion of his personal interactions with Rosen. You may have interpreted it a different way.