Jets begin contract extension talks with Jamal Adams

[The Crusher]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

 

See my above post, Jamal aint going to mail it in after signing him.  That's not in his DNA.  He's a dog! 

I honestly agree with that. Theone upside of paying him, dude is all effort,  pride and self promotion. I’m getting more use to the idea.

[Barry McCockinner]

[slats]

26 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

1) Jamal Adams is a good football player but also overrated.  You can be both.

Probably true, but he's a very good football player. 

26 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

1a) In doing the things he does to get his reputation, it often weakens the secondary, by leaving more guys on an island or by leaving huge holes in the defense.  (e.g., the play where he ran down Jacksonville’s RB and stopped a TD, meant to show him in a positive light but also showed that we’re he playing safety instead of OLB, it would have been a 4 yard run)

Do you think he's freelancing? Or do you think his coaches move him to where they feel they need him? 

26 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

2) Jamal Adams plays a position, strong safety, that you don’t want to invest big money into.

True. 

27 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

3) Jamal Adams presence hasn’t moved the needle towards a winning franchise.

The Jets defense was much better than I expected it to be last season despite a lack of pass rush and decent CBs. I give a lot of credit for that to Gregg Williams, but Jamal Adams was generally the best player on the field for him. A good defense probably moves the needle towards winning. 

27 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

4) The value Jamal Adams offers the 2020 and 2021 (and more?) Jets is less on the field at a high cap number than it is in trade for a pair of younger, cheaper, players at more impactful positions.

A doubling-down of point #2. I get it. The thing is that if you trade Adams for picks, you need to hit on those picks. I don't love just picks for the Jets' lone all-pro. I'd rather a mid/late first rounder plus a good+ starter either on the OL or at CB, and I wouldn't mind paying a fair contract for that player. Once we start talking about a first & third (or later), the value isn't there, IMHO. 

27 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Optional Bonus:

5) Jamal Adams is a me-first whinny bitch baby who showed anyone who didn’t already know, his true colors at the trade deadline.

And this is what the people adamantly for trading him feel about him. Which is fine. But if he produces on the field and doesn't get into trouble off of it, this is the sort of thing I just don't care about. 

Overall, I'm in favor of moving Adams for the right package. Largely because I don't like the idea of the Jets having the highest paid SS in the game when they have so many other, more pressing needs. I just don't feel the need to tear down the player in the process. 

[SAR I]

For this thread I am grateful.

SAR I

[NYJ1]

11 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

@Jetsfan80  @T0mShane the night NY Jets sign Jamal Adams to a longterm deal. 

What's after that? Kissing and hugs?

[Dcat]

5 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Kind of nice that you guys are just coming right out and saying it now

yeah.  Honesty is a good thing for once.  At least they are willing to admit that strong safety is one of the least important positions.  Sucks that people are so happy that are "best" player also happens to deliver the least in terms of winning games solely by virtue of positional importance.  So admitting that they are tossing the logic of it all to the side in fawning over a Jamal extension is at least a good first step.

[JustInFudge]

33 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

I honestly agree with that. Theone upside of paying him, dude is all effort,  pride and self promotion. I’m getting more use to the idea.

For sure.  He's obviously image conscious, wants to be a probowler/allpro year in year out.  Typically when that's the case and you're that good of a player, you're an asset on the Football field and a benefit to your team.  Only super smart Jets fans see it differently. 

[slats]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

For sure.  He's obviously image conscious, wants to be a probowler/allpro year in year out.  Typically when that's the case and you're that good of a player, you're an asset on the Football field and a benefit to your team.  Only super smart Jets fans see it differently. 

I agree that Jamal is 100% effort, but that's also one of my concerns. He's not a guy who tested as a superior athlete. His on-field performance is about preparation and effort. Which is great until those not-exactly-superior athletic traits start to decline. 

[Biggs]

I really don't understand the concept that Adams plays a low value position and is worth a high value in trade.    If it's a low value position his contract will reflect it and so will his trade value.

 

[NYJ1]

6 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

- Pay your good players

- I understand positional value but IDC when it comes to Jamal

- Cap is going to keep increasing

- Lock him in before new CBA, I guarantee the players will get a larger portion of the revenue sharing and believe contracts will be far bigger come 2021

- If the perfect soldier in Jamal can't earn a contract extension with the Jets then who will? Have to show the team this is the kind of player you need to be

Excellent job. For me, I think there's so much resistance on this team resigning Adams because those posters are only happy unless they are miserable. It's beyond absurd to think we can't keep Jamal and build a SB team. Not to mention, he is everything you mention and a recruiter for this team. Nobody wants to sign with the Jets. They have become a players graveyard and a laughingstock, but Jamal is actually trying and probably to succeed in reversing that.

[CurtMart]

12 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Meh, I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive.
 

So long as he cares about winning, I’m cool with him caring about money too. 

Mo Wilk he is not. 

Maybe not. But maybe Mevis?

[rangerous]

14 minutes ago, Dcat said:

yeah.  Honesty is a good thing for once.  At least they are willing to admit that strong safety is one of the least important positions.  Sucks that people are so happy that are "best" player also happens to deliver the least in terms of winning games solely by virtue of positional importance.  So admitting that they are tossing the logic of it all to the side in fawning over a Jamal extension is at least a good first step.

you can make the argument that his position has a limited effect on the outcome of games but at the same time adams has made some key plays that have at least preserved wins.  and the same thing can be said of ed reed, polumalu, sanders, etc.  blue chip players are hard to find regardless of their position and the jets should be happy to have one.  i get the whole value thing.  if another team did call for a trade i would answer the phone and listen.

[ZachEY]

20 minutes ago, slats said:

Do you think he's freelancing? Or do you think his coaches move him to where they feel they need him? 

I think, probably both.  But, I think his skill set isn't aligned with being a pure coverage safety.  This is fine for Jamal Adams, but it's less fine when the team struggles so mightily in coverage.  We need all the help we can get back there, and so, a DB that plays more at the LOS of a luxury and, unfortunately, at times, a liability, in my opinion.

20 minutes ago, slats said:

The Jets defense was much better than I expected it to be last season despite a lack of pass rush and decent CBs. I give a lot of credit for that to Gregg Williams, but Jamal Adams was generally the best player on the field for him. A good defense probably moves the needle towards winning. 

I think part of it is Gregg Williams and I think part of it is an extremely weak strength of schedule.  The defense wasn't great, it was better than expected, perhaps.

20 minutes ago, slats said:

A doubling-down of point #2. I get it. The thing is that if you trade Adams for picks, you need to hit on those picks. I don't love just picks for the Jets' lone all-pro. I'd rather a mid/late first rounder plus a good+ starter either on the OL or at CB, and I wouldn't mind paying a fair contract for that player. Once we start talking about a first & third (or later), the value isn't there, IMHO. 

Obviously you always want to hit on your draft picks, but you trade for opportunities - that's the best you get.  You're also guaranteed to not be hamstrung by Adam's contract, if you believe the prior points about not paying a SS 15M+.  You get something.

20 minutes ago, slats said:

And this is what the people adamantly for trading him feel about him. Which is fine. But if he produces on the field and doesn't get into trouble off of it, this is the sort of thing I just don't care about. 

Hence, optional.  It's not why I want him traded.  I don't follow him on twitter or instagram.  I don't really care.  But, it's certainly true.

20 minutes ago, slats said:

 Overall, I'm in favor of moving Adams for the right package. Largely because I don't like the idea of the Jets having the highest paid SS in the game when they have so many other, more pressing needs. I just don't feel the need to tear down the player in the process. 

I don't think any of the aforementioned points are really "tearing down the player," do you?  There are only two real attacks on him, "overrated," which you agree with, and doesn't mean bad.  And, on his personality, and that's not really about his play, and for most, not the reason to trade him.

[CurtMart]

[SAR I]

8 minutes ago, rangerous said:

you can make the argument that his position has a limited effect on the outcome of games

Jets S Jamal Adams was named an Associated Press first-team All-Pro.

He became the first defensive back to lead the team in tackles since S Victor Green in 1999. Adams' 6.5 sacks this season are the most by a Jets DB in franchise history, falling just 1.5 shy of the NFL record. Adams missed two games (Weeks 14-15) because of an ankle sprain.

Adams, who received the most votes at the safety position on the AP All-Pro team, had 14 tackles on third/fourth down this season and 13 in 2018, which are two of the three best totals in that category since 2000. The 6'1", 213-pounder also led the defense with 15 quarterback hits and was named the Curtis Martin Team MVP for a second straight year.

SAR I

[JustInFudge]

15 minutes ago, slats said:

I agree that Jamal is 100% effort, but that's also one of my concerns. He's not a guy who tested as a superior athlete. His on-field performance is about preparation and effort. Which is great until those not-exactly-superior athletic traits start to decline. 

I've seen Jamal make some pretty spectacular plays that would indicate he's a pretty damn good athlete.  Fournette was clocked at one point as the fastest ball carrier in the league and Jamal hawked him down, yet this board loves to talk about how slow he is.  Testing has merit but it's not the end all be all for every position and I think Jamal has proven that over the years.  I dont watch Jamal play and see a lesser athlete than anyone else on the field.  And great preparation,instincts and effort have been the focal point for many players who have long successful careers in this league who might not have been all world athlete on paper; see Richard Sherman and Terrell Suggs as an example. 

[JustInFudge]

19 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I really don't understand the concept that Adams plays a low value position and is worth a high value in trade.    If it's a low value position his contract will reflect it and so will his trade value.

 

That's because it's ridiculous logic that makes zero sense.  And is a player who makes plays on every level of the field not a position of high value? 6.5 sacks, a pick, 2 ff, 10 pds, 2 TD's, 75 tackles in 14 games?  No other player in the league can make that claim.  lDK, seems pretty impactful.  

Jamal Adams has unique skill set that very few players in the league have.  When opposing offenses get set at the LOS, every single player on offense is trying to find Jamal Adams.  The smooth brains around here dont know how to quantify that but when you have a player you can deploy anywhere on the field at any given time, it's a headache for the offense.  Just imagine if this team could generate pressure upfront without Jamal, he'll be even that much more dynamic and impactful. 

[slats]

10 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I don't think any of the aforementioned points are really "tearing down the player," do you?  There are only two real attacks on him, "overrated," which you agree with, and doesn't mean bad.  And, on his personality, and that's not really about his play, and for most, not the reason to trade him.

More of a general statement than being directed at you. More guys like @Jetsfan80 and @T0mShane tag-teaming each other right down the rabbit hole. 

Like I said, overall, I'm in the trade him camp. I just won't hate it if they, for whatever reason, decide they didn't get enough of an offer to move him. I want a good starter at a position of need and a high pick. That seems fair to me. Being a former #6 overall pick, being named all-pro, these things generally carry weight in trade negotiations and I want to see the Jets get value. 

[NYJ1]

I would offer Jamal 5 years 80 million with 50 million in guaranteed money. He's 100% worth it.

[Biggs]

26 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

Excellent job. For me, I think there's so much resistance on this team resigning Adams because those posters are only happy unless they are miserable. It's beyond absurd to think we can't keep Jamal and build a SB team. Not to mention, he is everything you mention and a recruiter for this team. Nobody wants to sign with the Jets. They have become a players graveyard and a laughingstock, but Jamal is actually trying and probably to succeed in reversing that.

Nobody wants to sign with the Jets?  Mac hit on lots of FA's.  He sucked at actually drafting.  In fairness to how sh*tty Mac was as a GM the one real hit Adam's was taken before both Mahomes and Watson.  The only reason we got Sam is Cleveland drafted ahead of us.  

We don't need players to recruit to build a SB team.  We need a GM who can evaluate talent and can construct a roster that can win a SB.  

We need a GM to evaluate Adams value to the team, value in trade and cost to resign.  GM's should respect their players but they shouldn't fall in love with their players.

 

[Biggs]

19 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Jets S Jamal Adams was named an Associated Press first-team All-Pro.

He became the first defensive back to lead the team in tackles since S Victor Green in 1999. Adams' 6.5 sacks this season are the most by a Jets DB in franchise history, falling just 1.5 shy of the NFL record. Adams missed two games (Weeks 14-15) because of an ankle sprain.

Adams, who received the most votes at the safety position on the AP All-Pro team, had 14 tackles on third/fourth down this season and 13 in 2018, which are two of the three best totals in that category since 2000. The 6'1", 213-pounder also led the defense with 15 quarterback hits and was named the Curtis Martin Team MVP for a second straight year.

SAR I

Curtis Martin who was a terrific player for the Jets, had a contract that handcuffed us from making some moves that could have put that team over the top.  Everyone loves Curtis but nobody actually looked at what Parcells paid him to get him.

[rangerous]

27 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Jets S Jamal Adams was named an Associated Press first-team All-Pro.

He became the first defensive back to lead the team in tackles since S Victor Green in 1999. Adams' 6.5 sacks this season are the most by a Jets DB in franchise history, falling just 1.5 shy of the NFL record. Adams missed two games (Weeks 14-15) because of an ankle sprain.

Adams, who received the most votes at the safety position on the AP All-Pro team, had 14 tackles on third/fourth down this season and 13 in 2018, which are two of the three best totals in that category since 2000. The 6'1", 213-pounder also led the defense with 15 quarterback hits and was named the Curtis Martin Team MVP for a second straight year.

SAR I

yes.  the haters are fixated on the position and not the player.  adams is a darn good player.

[Biggs]

20 minutes ago, JiF said:

That's because it's ridiculous logic that makes zero sense.  And is a player who makes plays on every level of the field not a position of high value? 6.5 sacks, a pick, 2 ff, 10 pds, 2 TD's, 75 tackles in 14 games?  No other player in the league can make that claim.  lDK, seems pretty impactful.  

Jamal Adams has unique skill set that very few players in the league have.  When opposing offenses get set at the LOS, every single player on offense is trying to find Jamal Adams.  The smooth brains around here dont know how to quantify that but when you have a player you can deploy anywhere on the field at any given time, it's a headache for the offense.  Just imagine if this team could generate pressure upfront without Jamal, he'll be even that much more dynamic and impactful. 

There are some players who transcend positional value and sometimes change the perception of positional value.  If Adams can significantly impact the game from the strong safety position, it's no longer a low value position.  

The entire argument is nuts.  

[T0mShane]

39 minutes ago, JiF said:

Fournette was clocked at one point as the fastest ball carrier in the league

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, Biggs said:

There are some players who transcend positional value and sometimes change the perception of positional value.  If Adams can significantly impact the game from the strong safety position, it's no longer a low value position.

 

10 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The entire argument is nuts.  

 

[T0mShane]

35 minutes ago, slats said:

More of a general statement than being directed at you. More guys like @Jetsfan80 and @T0mShane tag-teaming each other right down the rabbit hole

Nobody is saying to trade him because of his personality. His personality is only at issue when his defenders say you have to give him tons of money because he’s a leadery leader

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

He will continue to be who he is after a deal.

I heard he was going to turn into Ed Reed soon??????

[Biggs]

30 minutes ago, rangerous said:

yes.  the haters are fixated on the position and not the player.  adams is a darn good player.

Actual Value has zero to do with fixation by either a lover or a hater.  If he wasn't a darn good player he would have very little trade value and cost us very little to sign.  

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, rangerous said:

you can make the argument that his position has a limited effect on the outcome of games but at the same time adams has made some key plays that have at least preserved wins.  and the same thing can be said of ed reed, polumalu, sanders, etc.  blue chip players are hard to find regardless of their position and the jets should be happy to have one.  i get the whole value thing.  if another team did call for a trade i would answer the phone and listen.

yup...  If the phone rings just listen.  Jamal's value to us could potentially better than his performance on the field.

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

yeah.  Honesty is a good thing for once.  At least they are willing to admit that strong safety is one of the least important positions.  Sucks that people are so happy that are "best" player also happens to deliver the least in terms of winning games solely by virtue of positional importance.  So admitting that they are tossing the logic of it all to the side in fawning over a Jamal extension is at least a good first step.

Did you copy that from someone at an AA meeting?

[Dcat]

4 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Did you copy that from someone at an AA meeting?

No, but it seems obvious.  The road to any recovery requires recognition of the problem in the first place.  

[More Cowbell]

Just now, Dcat said:

No, but it seems obvious.  The road to any recovery requires recognition of the problem in the first place.  

Cool, what are the other 11 steps

[jmat321]

If he wants top safety money, maybe, but I think he is going to want Khalil Mack money.

[Dcat]

1 minute ago, jmat321 said:

If he wants top safety money, maybe, but I think he is going to want Khalil Mack money.

Ha.  

Then it will be Goodbye, Mr. Chips for Jamal. 

Just think, the 4th impeachment of a Prez since the  ratification of the US Constitution.

[Beerfish]

Mike McCagnan also knew about positional value but just didn't care with Admas, Lee, Quinned Williams, etc etc.

As for being 'a perfect solider'?

- extreme self promotion.

- throws team mates under the bus yelling that 'I'm not a loser we need more dawgs on this team!'

- Is constantly 'recruiting players' whether the team wants or needs them or not.

- When it is mentioned that the team was taking calls on him at trade deadline (like any responsible team would with any player) he throws a hissy fit and says he was lied to about it.  Further more he refuses to talk to the coach or the GM about it and only talks to the owner.  Later makes a point of saying he finally met with the Gm and they both apologized.

 - Makes incredible presumptive post on social media about him being extended this off season and that they have had talks, has to back track a bit and say no money was mentioned.

This is not a 'perfect solider'