Costello's comments from former Gase players-Counter Mehta

[FidelioJet]

11 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Rex made it to the playoffs in 2009 with a whopping two more wins than Gase, and he had a Super Bowl caliber roster that he had absolutely nothing to do with.  When tasked with coaching a roster with his hands on it, he was a total sh*tshow.  The love some people have for that buffoon is completely unwarranted.

Are you comparing going to consecutive AFC Championships games to a 10 win season and losing in the wildcard round like Gase did?

btw...I’m not saying Rex was a great coach but he wasn’t given extra time because of his podium antics,  He was given more time because he won playoffs games...

[HawkeyeJet]

I hope Jamal Adams and Adam Gase sign lucrative contract extensions on the same day just for the pure entertainment value.

[Mogglez]

12 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Are you comparing going to consecutive AFC Championships games to a 10 win season and losing in the wildcard round like Gase did?

btw...I’m not saying Rex was a great coach but he wasn’t given extra time because of his podium antics,  He was given more time because he won playoffs games...

If Indianapolis and Cincinnati don't lay down for Rex, we aren't even talking about back to back AFC championship games.  As fun as that year ultimately was, it was a season that included massive breaks in our favor and running into two perrenial choke artist teams in the Playoffs.  When it mattered most against a perennial successful team in Indianapolis, his vaunted defense was exposed, he failed to make any adjustments, and we were destroyed in the 2nd half.

Rex had one good year of coaching.  2010.  That's it.  Maybe 2013 if I'm feeling kind.  The rest of his career is smoke and mirrors.

Gase turning around the 6-10, 2015 Dolphins and getting to the Wild-Card round at 10-6 with Tannehill, Matt Moore, and that roster was a better overall coaching job.  Yes.  You can't sit here and tell me with a straight face that you expected him to win a playoff game with a 33 year old Matt Moore.

[SAR I]

9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

btw...I’m not saying Rex was a great coach but he wasn’t given extra time because of his podium antics,  He was given more time because he won playoffs games...

No, he was given more time to placate a stupid fanbase.  It boiled down to Rex or Mark and Woody ridiculously chose Rex who only cared about his defense because it was his ‘brand’.  

History shows we should have kept the QB, brought in an offensive coach, drafted some young receivers, and give Sanchez a chance to develop instead of Ryan scapegoating him out of town. 

SAR I 

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, SAR I said:

No, he was given more time to placate a stupid fanbase.  It boiled down to Rex or Mark and Woody ridiculously chose Rex who only cared about his defense because it was his ‘brand’.  

History shows we should have kept the QB, brought in an offensive coach, drafted some young receivers, and give Sanchez a chance to develop instead of Ryan scapegoating him out of town. 

SAR I 

History shows?

Because of Sanchez’s success after leaving the Jets? That’s not even a little bit of a legitimate argument.

I’m sorry, I thought you could have been serious about this topic and maybe your Gase support was the only trolling you were doing.  I was mistaken.  I’ll leave it alone from here on out.

Btw...I will say - keeping that OL together (or elite) should have been the top priority - once they let that go they had to rely on Sanchez and he simply wasn’t capable enough.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

7-9, after starting 1-7, is almost unheard of, especially given what happened to the already depleted roster this year.

Also, the meat of my post already explained what happens to offensive rankings when even Super Bowl caliber coaches have talent deficiencies and injuries decimate their teams.  It also clearly explained that Gase doesn't need "all-pros at every position that all stay 100% healthy" to finish in a respectable spot both record wise and in the offensive rankings. Once again, In 2016 he took an "okay" roster with injuries at QB1, RB1 and other positions to the playoffs and a respectable finish in the offensive rankings.

1 and done and a 24th ranking in Offense is ok.  It's not great (especially the O).

And it's the best he's been, since then, he's declined every year.

Look, we both accept (or agree) that he's the guy in 2020.

I demand better than dead last, I want top 15 (i..e average!).  Is that wrong?  Will we be here this time next year with folks explaining why Gase's 5th year and 28th ranking was because of X, Y and or Z excuses/reasons?

Again, at what point is your record who you are?

If you tell me we'll be 10-6 and in the playoffs next year, I'm good with that!  But so far I've not found even one Gase-believer who'll say that (well, SAR says it, but you know, SAR).  It's all pre-emptive excuses and reasons why we won't.

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

History shows?

Because of Sanchez’s success after leaving the Jets? That’s not even a little bit of a legitimate argument.

History shows Rex Ryan was a bad head coach.  Two gigs, never getting a third. 

History shows that the quarterbacks brought in to better Mark Sanchez failed miserably.  Duds. Almost all out of the league. None even close to a starting job. 

What we do not know is what would have happened if Ryan were removed and replaced by an offensive mind who didn’t sacrifice Mark’s throwing shoulder in a meaningless preseason game.

Two knowns and an unknown.  History tells us keeping Rex and dumping Mark was the wrong decision. Whether Mark was better than those brought in to replace him will never be known, but we do know that what we did was the wrong decision.  Sticking with Rex set us back years; investing in an uninjured Mark might have been successful. 

SAR I

[Charlie Brown]

This was a very important article for me because I have been very hard on Adam Gase and based on this article we should and must give him more time.....

 

[papz187]

If Indianapolis and Cincinnati don't lay down for Rex, we aren't even talking about back to back AFC championship games.  As fun as that year ultimately was, it was a season that included massive breaks in our favor and running into two perrenial choke artist teams in the Playoffs.  When it mattered most against a perennial successful team in Indianapolis, his vaunted defense was exposed, he failed to make any adjustments, and we were destroyed in the 2nd half.
Rex had one good year of coaching.  2010.  That's it.  Maybe 2013 if I'm feeling kind.  The rest of his career is smoke and mirrors.
Gase turning around the 6-10, 2015 Dolphins and getting to the Wild-Card round at 10-6 with Tannehill, Matt Moore, and that roster was a better overall coaching job.  Yes.  You can't sit here and tell me with a straight face that you expected him to win a playoff game with a 33 year old Matt Moore.

After the opening kick off of the 3rd quarter in the Indy game, it was only a 1 point game...when Manning and other starters were benched sometime in the 3rd quarter it was a 1 score game. Not saying we would of beat the 14-0 Colts if they didn't sit guys, but we definitely had a chance when starters came out half way through the 3rd quarter.

As for Cinncy in week 17, they could of played their starters all game, we were gonna kick their ass regardless that night, and showed we were the better team the following week on the road against them too.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[papz187]

History shows Rex Ryan was a bad head coach.  Two gigs, never getting a third. 

 

History shows that the quarterbacks brought in to better Mark Sanchez failed miserably.  Duds. Almost all out of the league. None even close to a starting job. 

 

What we do not know is what would have happened if Ryan were removed and replaced by an offensive mind who didn’t sacrifice Mark’s throwing shoulder in a meaningless preseason game.

Two knowns and an unknown.  History tells us keeping Rex and dumping Mark was the wrong decision. Whether Mark was better than those brought in to replace him will never be known, but we do know that what we did was the wrong decision.  Sticking with Rex set us back years; investing in an uninjured Mark might have been successful. 

 

SAR I

Idzik was the one who wanted Sanchez to play in the 4th qtr of that preseason Giants game, not Rex. I remember clearly reading that when it happened.

 

 

https://www.nj.com/jets/2013/09/jets_general_manager_john_idzik_on_mark_sanchez_playing_behind_backups_vs_giants_it_was_not_a_mistak.html

 

"Idzik previously said the Jets wanted to get a complete look at Smith and Sanchez in the Giants game, and that’s why Sanchez played. Idzik said coach Rex Ryan was carrying out the organization’s plan to get that thorough assessment when he put Sanchez on the field."

 

Rex was carrying out the organization's plan....i.e. Idzik's plan....Rex saw plenty of Sanchez prior to that game, Idzik was the one pushing for more playing time to assess who would start week 1 that year.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[jetsons]

3 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Rex made it to the playoffs in 2009 with a whopping two more wins than Gase, and he had a Super Bowl caliber roster that he had absolutely nothing to do with.  When tasked with coaching a roster with his hands on it, he was a total sh*tshow.  The love some people have for that buffoon is completely unwarranted.

?????

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, jetsons said:

?????

Not sure what you're laughing about.  There's really only two ways this could potentially be looked at:

1.  Rex was such a great coach that he elevated the play of those rosters to back to back AFC championship games (his track record following both of those years suggests otherwise)

2.  The roster that helped create the number one rushing game in the league, built the best offensive line in the league, contained very good skill position players, had excellent defensive players and included a core that was apart of, arguably, the best team in football in '08 before Favre blew his arm out, was a Super Bowl caliber roster. 

Tell me Captain Emoji, which of these two, in hindsight, was more likely?

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, papz187 said:

After the opening kick off of the 3rd quarter in the Indy game, it was only a 1 point game...when Manning and other starters were benched sometime in the 3rd quarter it was a 1 score game. Not saying we would of beat the 14-0 Colts if they didn't sit guys, but we definitely had a chance when starters came out half way through the 3rd quarter.

As for Cinncy in week 17, they could of played their starters all game, we were gonna kick their ass regardless that night, and showed we were the better team the following week on the road against them too.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

Curtis Painter was inserted into that game which should speak for itself and when Manning was in it, their gameplan was incredibly vanilla.

As for Cincinnati, we don't know that. 

What I do know is that Rex's track record indicates that those two years were massive outliers with a Mangini crafted roster.  The draft philosophy under Rex drastically changed from the Magini days.  That was not a coincidence, IMHO.

[BornJetsFan1983]

Wait so Rex who got us two afc championship games with Sanchez was a bad coach? Really? But Gase is good? Wow. This is loony toons.

[Jetscode1]

6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Ha!  Any article that claims Gase turned the organization around loses all credibility.

 

 

Hello Manish.

[David Harris]

There are things I like about Gase but then there are the results...

but I am still very open to him doing well here.  It was the worst offensive roster I’ve ever seen. Get some decent players here and we’ll see.

[Mogglez]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

1 and done and a 24th ranking in Offense is ok.  It's not great (especially the O).

And it's the best he's been, since then, he's declined every year.

Look, we both accept (or agree) that he's the guy in 2020.

I demand better than dead last, I want top 15 (i..e average!).  Is that wrong?  Will we be here this time next year with folks explaining why Gase's 5th year and 28th ranking was because of X, Y and or Z excuses/reasons?

Again, at what point is your record who you are?

If you tell me we'll be 10-6 and in the playoffs next year, I'm good with that!  But so far I've not found even one Gase-believer who'll say that (well, SAR says it, but you know, SAR).  It's all pre-emptive excuses and reasons why we won't.

Given the 6-10 roster he inherited and the crippling injury to Tannehill 4 games before the regular season was due to end, it's not as bad as it seems.  When it came to scoring, arguably the most important offensive statistic, they finished 17th overall, which is close to that top 15 rank you're looking for despite the injury at QB1.  They were hurt in their total rankings for the yardage ranking, which was also heavily skewed by the switch to Matt Moore.  Under Tannehill they were averaging 230 passing yards per game to pair with a healthy Jay Ajayi's 84.8 yards rushing yards per game and scoring a total of 23 points per game.  Again, very respectable numbers given the circumstances.  Under Moore, the passing yards dropped to 180 passing yards per game, and Ajayi's average numbers dipped in those 4 games (sans week 14 where he exploded), as defenses were keying in on the run game. 

Overall, a respectable job when you look at the details and put everything into proper perspective.  10-6 and a playoff berth is the most important thing, as we would all take that, regardless of rankings.

Afterwards, Tannehill tore his ACL right before the 2017 season, forcing them to rely on the corpse of a half-hearted Jay Cutler at the very last minute.  Obviously, this is going to effect the potency of any offense.

2018 was supposed to be the beginning of the rebuild for the Dolphins and Tannehill only played in 11 games, once again hurting the offense.

I think it's definitely fair to say that we agree that he's the guy in 2020.  I also expect better results on offense than what we were given this year, so on that we also agree.  Once again, if things look they did this year with a revamped roster that stays healthy, I would expect and hope for a change at HC.  That being said, I also would like to believe that we're both rooting for him to end up like Shanny Jr. and finally prove himself with a healthy and talented roster

[roscoeword]

6 hours ago, Mogglez said:

If Indianapolis and Cincinnati don't lay down for Rex, we aren't even talking about back to back AFC championship games.  As fun as that year ultimately was, it was a season that included massive breaks in our favor and running into two perrenial choke artist teams in the Playoffs.  When it mattered most against a perennial successful team in Indianapolis, his vaunted defense was exposed, he failed to make any adjustments, and we were destroyed in the 2nd half.

Rex had one good year of coaching.  2010.  That's it.  Maybe 2013 if I'm feeling kind.  The rest of his career is smoke and mirrors.

Gase turning around the 6-10, 2015 Dolphins and getting to the Wild-Card round at 10-6 with Tannehill, Matt Moore, and that roster was a better overall coaching job.  Yes.  You can't sit here and tell me with a straight face that you expected him to win a playoff game with a 33 year old Matt Moore.

We won that Cinci game because of Brad Smith and the wild cat. So I guess it's Schotty who really took us far.

[jgb]

So only 25% of Gase’s former players hate his guts. Whew!

[jetscrazey]

Kyle Shanahan is everything Gase wishes he was.

But whatever, Gase got his guaranteed contract.  He's good.  Chris Johnson is the real sucker, paying all this dead money to head coaches because he has no idea how to build a team.  Everyone's gotta report to him.

[Mogglez]

51 minutes ago, roscoeword said:

We won that Cinci game because of Brad Smith and the wild cat. So I guess it's Schotty who really took us far.

I think you're thinking of the Thanksgiving 2010 game, when Brad won MVP of the game for his 53 yard TD run and 89 yard kickoff return.

We destroyed Cincinnati's backups 37-0 week 17 in 09 with a full team effort.  Brad had a good game but that game was all but over by half-time thanks to the defense and the 1-2 punch of Shonn Greene and Thomas Jones.

[Mogglez]

20 minutes ago, jetscrazey said:

Kyle Shanahan is everything Gase wishes he was.

But whatever, Gase got his guaranteed contract.  He's good.  Chris Johnson is the real sucker, paying all this dead money to head coaches because he has no idea how to build a team.  Everyone's gotta report to him.

And that wasn't the case until this year, when he finally had a talented and fully healthy team.

Before that he was considered Gase 2.0, was "fighting with John Lynch behind the scenes", best known for blowing the Super Bowl in historic fashion, and riding the coattails of Matt Ryan's MVP year.  Sound familiar?

[Scott Dierking]

9 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

This was a very important article for me because I have been very hard on Adam Gase and based on this article we should and must give him more time.....

 

Fair, but this article was not submitted as a testimony that Gase is a great coach and will definitely be a winner here. I am unsure of that myself at this point. It was submitted more as a counter to this agenda that has been floated, primarily by Mehta, that every player that has ever been coached by Gase feels that he is toxic, does not have football acumen and there is no respect.  That is patently incorrect.

I believe that through the prior regime, there was a country club atmosphere that was pervasive with the Jets. Some players, particularly those have only been with the Jets in their NFL career found that uncomfortable. They did not like new found expected accountability.

As for former players that have gripes with Gase, many of those seem to be from players that had been unceremoniously cut or had roles changed. So be it. I am sure Gase is a hard ass, and looks for players that fit his mold and style. I feel fairly confident he is not looking to cross players out of spite or resentment. He is doing to do so in building his mold of a team through accountability and his vision of fit.

Whether that works, remains to be seen. But I rather it be done through an accountability mode. 

 

[Biggs]

I always thought former players hating the HC was a plus.  

[JetsLife]

Just when we were enjoying a Gase-debate reprieve, Costello, Manish and JN pull us back in. ??

Unsure if I’ve seen/heard anyone point out: there is valid logic on both sides of the Gase debate. He’s been good and bad. Not unlike other young NFL HCs.

However count me as a major Gase skeptic, will wait to believe it until I see it. Mostly as his skills don’t translate on game days near consistently enough. He’ll have a run of some impressive HC-OC’ing ... then completely sh-t the bed outta nowhere.

Also: he seems too inflexible, reverting to tendencies - which good DCs and their defenses eat alive. Smaller scale: he seems way too content to call predictable throwaway run plays leaving his offense in 3rd and long ... usually resulting in a punt. One sometimes gets the sense he’d rather punt like crazy than be in a riskier, non stop attack mode. Yet by risking little he risks much more.

[Philc1]

Yeah they all love Gase that’s why they can’t wait to get away and play better once they’ve left him

[Philc1]

6 hours ago, Mogglez said:

And that wasn't the case until this year, when he finally had a talented and fully healthy team.

Before that he was considered Gase 2.0, was "fighting with John Lynch behind the scenes", best known for blowing the Super Bowl in historic fashion, and riding the coattails of Matt Ryan's MVP year.  Sound familiar?

If you think Gase is Kyle Shanahan I have some Enron stock to sell you

 

Btw Kyle’s dad was one of the greatest NFL head coaches ever

 

[rangerous]

i won't ever claim to know what's going on behind the scenes.  i was okay with the bowles/mac hires and still have some good thoughts about bowles.  but it's awful hard to assess anything while sitting on the couch watching the games.  it's all about the record and what's on the field.  as for gase, the big fan mark against him is tannehill playing well for all of 3/4 of a season with the titans.  but what they fail to remember is tannehill was launched the same year gase quit and was replaced with rosen/fitz.  a second thing they fail to remember is when the playoff game was on the line, tannehill lost it.  he nearly lost the buffalo game after having it handed to him by allen and then failed when they played kc.  enough with this revisionist history.

[More Cowbell]

It amazes me how much time people put into on Manish. He is winning. Every time he writes something,  everyone here reads it. Isn't  that the whole idea for a sports writer or any kind of writer?

2 or 3 years ago, Manish was on WEEI, Boston  sports radio because he said the wheels were coming of the Pats org because Brady was declining. He was skewered for it by the two hosts and insulted to the point he almost cut the interview  off and you know what, he was right. I don't  think this guy is stupid, he knows what he is doing. Whether  you agree he is right about Gase or not, the guy is taking the position Gase is bad for the Jets and that is what he is going to write about.  As far as if players are happy with him, there are going to be players unhappy about things he did. It sounds strange that Williams is saying he was right in the way he was treated in Miami. Tanny is obviously  playing better in Tn., so is Stills. I don't  think this is all a coincidence.  

[papz187]

Curtis Painter was inserted into that game which should speak for itself and when Manning was in it, their gameplan was incredibly vanilla.
As for Cincinnati, we don't know that. 
What I do know is that Rex's track record indicates that those two years were massive outliers with a Mangini crafted roster.  The draft philosophy under Rex drastically changed from the Magini days.  That was not a coincidence, IMHO.

Yes, when it came to player personal, drafting was much better under Mangini I also agree.

Rex was a better coach IMO, taking that 09 team with Sanchez instead of Favre, missing his most explosive offensive player and defensive players from the year prior in Leon Washington and Kris Jenkins to season ending injuries.

If we could of had Rex coaching with Mangini being in charge of player personal we would of really had something.

The worst part is if Favre stays with the Jets for Rex's first season, we are very likely to be SB champions.

Look how far we got with a very limited rookie QB....look at the year Favre had in Minnesota that year as well. Obviously with different coaching and player personal in NY as oppose to Minnesota I would not expect Favre to put up the same type of numbers, but he definitely would of been a huge upgrade over rookie Sanchez.

With as close as we were to getting to the SB, that upgrade could of easily made all the difference.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[FidelioJet]

Gase stinks!

[SAR I]

28 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Btw Kyle’s dad was one of the greatest NFL head coaches ever

Bill Walsh’s father was a drunken day laborer. 

SAR I

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Gase stinks!

Yes!  Let’s put Sam Darnold in his 3rd offensive system in 3 years and sign Tim Tebow!  Worked wonders for Mark Sanchez!

SAR I

[papz187]

Yes!  Let’s put Sam Darnold in his 3rd offensive system in 3 years and sign Tim Tebow!  Worked wonders for Mark Sanchez!
SAR I

I think you have to give Gase at least this upcoming season to see what he can do with Sam and the offense.

Continuity is important. People have used Kyle Shanahan as an example of having poor W/L records his first couple of seasons in SF before this year, and while I think Shanahan is a better coach than Gase, even he still needed time to get the right personal into place to win games.

Let's see what Gase can do with an offensive line and Darnold having a second year in the same offense before we burn him at the stakes.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[BornJetsFan1983]

We have seen a season of Gase and it was a complete failure. The smart move is to replace him.