The buzzards are circling for Darnold and Mayfield, with this interesting bonus nug

[Chrebetfan80]

34 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

chicken or egg? they didnt pick him cos they didnt see "it"                  you dont see "it" you dont know how to play him...

its a mobius loop

True, but things will be telling in coming years. Greg roman is most likely going to get a HC job this offseason.  We'll see how Llamar performs without that structure.  Depending on who they bring in i have a feeling we'll see a dip in production. 

[chirorob]

1 hour ago, playtowinthegame said:

I too wanted Rosen and I was completely against drafting Josh Allen.

However

I wanted Deshaun Watson and was extremely upset when Mac passed on him. We probably would have ruined him anyways and he'd be on the Geno Smith career trajectory.

To he honest, I also liked Rosen.

In his defense, no one could have succeeded with what Rosen has played with.

[GreekJet]

Mayfield while not perfect is nowhere near the bust Darnold is. At this point Sam is Mitch Trubisky 2.0

[Paradis]

I think There’s something to be said about the fact that the traditional QBs from the last few years of all struggled; Rosen, Darnold, Trubisky, Mayfield etc. Meanwhile the traditionally high risk spread/option/scramble types have taken over. Lamar, Mahomes, Allen, Watson, Murray…

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, Lupz27 said:

Joe Douglas needs to be put in charge here.  No more HC reports to Owner, **** that make his ass report to Joe D.

I think we all have been waiting for that next Parcells guy to come in here wipe all the stank away, and shut the negative noise up.

I think Joe D can be that guy IF he is the boss from his position down, none of this HC GM finger pointing dance to undermine Joe.

Stop being clowns pick a leader of your franchise, and allow him to do just that.

Remember, Joe Douglas chose to come here because Adam Gase was just beginning as head coach and Sam Darnold was heading into year two of a likely five year contract. Douglas thought he already had the key pieces in place and that he had to lift the rest of the roster.

If Joe was not onboard with Gase and Darnold he would not have taken the job. There was almost no way he was going to get rid of either one of them in the first two years, and he knew that he was likely anchored to at least one of them for a third year. I see no way that he would get rid of both Gase and Darnold by year three. It would be an admission to CJ that he was completely wrong about those guys when he walked in the door.

Anybody who wants to entrust the entire Jets organization to Joe Douglas implicitly believes that when he came here he assessed that Adam Gase or Sam Darnold, or both, were important and valuable pieces to build around.

[Losmeister]

6 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

True, but things will be telling in coming years. Greg roman is most likely going to get a HC job this offseason.  We'll see how Llamar performs without that structure.  Depending on who they bring in i have a feeling we'll see a dip in production. 

he went from an oc in buffalo to the assistant and Tes in Balt b4, OC...   i dunoo, DOES he even WANT to leave that situ?

why would you wanna leave a peaking player who just won an mvp and the chance to create w/ that player as he grows?

sounds like a fun well paying gig.

btw, crediting LJs coach? what petrino created LJ when he was playing w/ scrubs at LVille?

[68JET11]

1 hour ago, Lupz27 said:

Joe Douglas needs to be put in charge here.  No more HC reports to Owner, **** that make his ass report to Joe D.

I think we all have been waiting for that next Parcells guy to come in here wipe all the stank away, and shut the negative noise up.

I think Joe D can be that guy IF he is the boss from his position down, none of this HC GM finger pointing dance to undermine Joe.

Stop being clowns pick a leader of your franchise, and allow him to do just that.

This team needs a President of Football Operations with Football experience. Someone that has the GM report to him, and the HC report to the GM, and an owner that writes the checks.

I agree that since we don't have that, JD needs to be the man at this point, and CJ needs to say, all decisions stop with him. Give him power to hire and fire whoever he see fit. He seems to have his head screwed on the right way, although some may say he failed in drafting more than one WR. For now I'll give him the benefit of the doubt..

[Lupz27]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Consensus number ones actually go number one

Sam was number one like a year before he was eligible by the time he was drafted he was nitpicked to 3 overall.

The reasons why Sam fell from 1 to 3 are the same reasons why he sux today. The jets didn't ruin this player. He was always overrated

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

Yeah it had zero to do with Baker Mayfield’s extremely successful marketing tour.  The marketing tour should have turned everyone off to this guy yet the NFL geniuses thought it was leadership 

[Lupz27]

8 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I think There’s something to be said about the fact that the traditional QBs from the last few years of all struggled; Rosen, Darnold, Trubisky, Mayfield etc. Meanwhile the traditionally high risk scrambling tapes have taken over. Lamar, Mahomes, Allen, Watson, Murray…

Don’t include Mahomes in that list, he is the lowest risk QB in the entire NFL, and was entering the draft all you had to do was pay attention.  Not many did.

[jetstream23]

4 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I think There’s something to be said about the fact that the traditional QBs from the last few years of all struggled; Rosen, Darnold, Trubisky, Mayfield etc. Meanwhile the traditionally high risk scrambling tapes have taken over. Lamar, Mahomes, Allen, Watson, Murray…

How would you assess the situations they stepped into and the coaches that they worked under? For example, Mahomes stepping into a situation with a decent team in KC with Andy Reid, Kyler working under Kingsbury and now having Hopkins, Lamar in a good situation in Baltimore. This is in contrast to Darnold having his second head coach and crap receivers for 3 years, Mayfield with his third head coach, etc. 

[jgb]

14 minutes ago, chirorob said:

To he honest, I also liked Rosen.

In his defense, no one could have succeeded with what Rosen has played with.

What amount of evidence does it take for someone to admit a QB they liked coming out of college just sucks?

[Lupz27]

7 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Remember, Joe Douglas chose to come here because Adam Gase was just beginning as head coach and Sam Darnold was heading into year two of a likely five year contract. Douglas thought he already had the key pieces in place and that he had to lift the rest of the roster.

If Joe was not onboard with Gase and Darnold he would not have taken the job. There was almost no way he was going to get rid of either one of them in the first two years, and he knew that he was likely anchored to at least one of them for a third year. I see no way that he would get rid of both Gase and Darnold by year three. It would be an admission to CJ that he was completely wrong about those guys when he walked in the door.

Anybody who wants to entrust the entire Jets organization to Joe Douglas implicitly believes that when he came here he assessed that Adam Gase or Sam Darnold, or both, were important and valuable pieces to build around.

That’s one way to spin it.  If Joe is the right guy none of this sh*t matters after 2 years of ineptitude.  Sorry Adam thanks for the good word, but sorry your ass sucks at coaching.  Again the right guy isn’t going to hitch his wagon while risking their own future in the NFL.

[Paradis]

13 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Yeah it had zero to do with Baker Mayfield’s extremely successful marketing tour.  The marketing tour should have turned everyone off to this guy yet the NFL geniuses thought it was leadership 

Thanks, tips 

[#27TheDominator]

37 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

he went from an oc in buffalo to the assistant and Tes in Balt b4, OC...   i dunoo, DOES he even WANT to leave that situ?

why would you wanna leave a peaking player who just won an mvp and the chance to create w/ that player as he grows?

sounds like a fun well paying gig.

btw, crediting LJs coach? what petrino created LJ when he was playing w/ scrubs at LVille?

Autonomy?  Ego?  Power?  Millions of dollars? 

[CTM]

3 hours ago, dbatesman said:

This is like those articles saying Maccagnan never seriously considered taking a QB in the 2017 draft, with the exception of...Trubisky. Even the alternate-universe Jets are a sh*tshow.

My favorite alternate universes are 

1) Bradway pounding the table for Russel Wilson

2) Fat parcels assuring Archie he'd take his son so hes come out as a Jr.

3) Favre being the #1 player on our board but getting drafted a spot ahead of us because we burned our #1 on Rob Moore in the previous year supplemental.  Consolation prize of Browning Nagle 

[CTM]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

The reasons why Sam fell from 1 to 3 are the same reasons why he sux today. The jets didn't ruin this player. He was always overrated

^^^ this. He was not a Manning/Andrew Luck type prospect

[predator_05]

52 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I think There’s something to be said about the fact that the traditional QBs from the last few years of all struggled; Rosen, Darnold, Trubisky, Mayfield etc. Meanwhile the traditionally high risk spread/option/scramble types have taken over. Lamar, Mahomes, Allen, Watson, Murray…

 

Didn't mayfield and kyler run the same offense in Oklahoma?

[Biggs]

57 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

How would you assess the situations they stepped into and the coaches that they worked under? For example, Mahomes stepping into a situation with a decent team in KC with Andy Reid, Kyler working under Kingsbury and now having Hopkins, Lamar in a good situation in Baltimore. This is in contrast to Darnold having his second head coach and crap receivers for 3 years, Mayfield with his third head coach, etc. 

Take a look at Murray's foot work and throwing motion.  The guys a midget but he is miles ahead of Sam in his fundamental approach to throwing the football.  He was better last year on an equally crappy roster than Sam has ever been.  You rarely see Murray make a throw where his feet aren't set perfectly.  

Mayfield would suck on the Jets.  I think Mahomes would be great anywhere.  Got to give Lamar props.  I thought he would get killed and might suck in the NFL.  He's tough and wants to be great.  While he's in a great situation, he has a lot more intestinal fortitude to think he would allow himself to fail.  

In order to be a great NFL QB you can't let the situation defeat you.  Not to say some guys can't grow into it but if Sam isn't one of those guys he should be sat down until he is.

[Paradis]

15 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

 

Didn't mayfield and kyler run the same offense in Oklahoma?

Exactly the same. Different type of QB tho 

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

How would you assess the situations they stepped into and the coaches that they worked under? For example, Mahomes stepping into a situation with a decent team in KC with Andy Reid, Kyler working under Kingsbury and now having Hopkins, Lamar in a good situation in Baltimore. This is in contrast to Darnold having his second head coach and crap receivers for 3 years, Mayfield with his third head coach, etc. 

Which begs the question - did the better teams also see the writing on the wall? Took the QBs who will be successful, versus bad teams still chasing old archetypes? No vision? 

[Greensleeves]

2 hours ago, JTJet said:

I dont believe for a second any behind the scenes nameless personnel people thought Sam Darnold would "suck". 

He was the consensus number 1 across the entire spectrum of NFL analysts and coaches. 

These are purely people in scouting departments trying to distance themselves from their own bad analysis, so they can justify getting more jobs when they inevitably get fired. 

And he doesn't suck - he's going to be better than Baker or Allen. They have legit offenses around them. We don't and they still suck even with those players.

[Chrebetfan80]

1 hour ago, Losmeister said:

he went from an oc in buffalo to the assistant and Tes in Balt b4, OC...   i dunoo, DOES he even WANT to leave that situ?

why would you wanna leave a peaking player who just won an mvp and the chance to create w/ that player as he grows?

sounds like a fun well paying gig.

btw, crediting LJs coach? what petrino created LJ when he was playing w/ scrubs at LVille?

yeah OC with the 9ers, then the bills, now ravens.  Not sure if he'd want to leave but he'll be at the top of most teams lists with the success he's had.  

Trust me, granted its tons of fun to call plays for dynamic plays but a lot of guys want that jump up to the big chair. 

I'm not fully crediting Roman, I do think he plays a roll in it though. He build that offense from the ground up specifically for llamar based off what he did with Kap in san fran.  I think its foolish to think he took such a huge leap from year 1 to 2 from no wehre without giving a lot of credit to Roman.  As soon as he took over in Balt their offense turned around.  Also if you look at Kaps number (granted there could be a few other reasons for this) as soon as roman left Kaps numbers took an absolute nose dive.  He just may be that good a play caller. 

[jeremy2020]

2 hours ago, 68JET11 said:

This team needs a President of Football Operations with Football experience. Someone that has the GM report to him, and the HC report to the GM, and an owner that writes the checks.

Who's going to hire the President of Football Operations?

[Losmeister]

19 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

As soon as he took over in Balt their offense turned around. 

As soon as LJ went in w/ a moribund offense and he ran, their O perked up...  then another level w/ Roman, true.

Kaps numbers was Roman, Gore, Carbtree and Davis all leaving at once....  can you even name any of the players who replaced those guys w/o looking it up?

He was middling at Buffy w/ Tyrod and Sean Mccoy and Sammy Watkins

The PLAYERS make the difference....

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, JTJet said:

This is where QBase had Mayfield ranked compared to star QBs lol

All that tells me is QBASE, in a small sample, was right about 70 % of the time.  60 % if you want to call Carson Palmer a bust.  No one was completely sold on Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Rivers, or even Peyton Manning (some preferred Leaf) at the time when they were drafted.  And GM's passed on Russell Wilson for two full rounds. 

Meanwhile, QBASE liked Pat Mahomes (656 QBASE) in 2017 more than any other QB prospect in that class by a fairly wide margin.  Evidently they saw something only Andy Reid and a few others saw.  Did they think Mahomes would end up a GOAT candidate?  Probably not.  I bet Andy Reid didn't either.  But they certainly would have advised a GM to take Mahomes over Trubisky, Watson, and the rest of the class that year.

Find me a scout/front office that nails its picks on QB's 60 % of the time.  Hint:  They don't exist.

And QBASE is even better at its rate of pointing out QB's that will fail.  

Conclusion:  QBASE is a very useful tool.

[Losmeister]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

60 % if you want to call Carson Palmer a bust.  

ProBowler in yr 2 then got Kimo'd....   then played ~500 ball til Cinci/Oak nightmare teams and has 2 double digit win season in Arizona....

a career that got seriously effed by injuries

 

 

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, Losmeister said:

every single person who lives said sam was #1.....        jesus , take yoiur meds.

51.9% BUST     4% elite       oopah!

 

QBASE also liked Lamar Jackson (656 QBASE) more than any prospect in the class other than Baker Mayfield.  They would have recommended we take Jackson at 3 after Mayfield came off the board.

[SAR I]

6 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Llamar jackson

Spellcheck indicates you work at a petting zoo. 

SAR I

[chirorob]

5 hours ago, jgb said:

What amount of evidence does it take for someone to admit a QB they liked coming out of college just 

Did I say he was a good player?  No, I said I also liked him coming out.  I liked Baker the most, and he imploded last year.

Would you argue his (Rosen's) situation has been utter crap?   He has done nothing to help his situation, i simply stated he has been in very difficult positions.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, chirorob said:

Did I say he was a good player?  No, I said I also liked him coming out.  I liked Baker the most, and he imploded last year.

Would you argue his (Rosen's) situation has been utter crap?   He has done nothing to help his situation, i simply stated he has been in very difficult positions.

His performance made it so. Look at the difference in Murray. 

[chirorob]

56 minutes ago, jgb said:

His performance made it so. Look at the difference in Murray. 

Look at the difference in coaching.

Again.  I never said he was good.  I said his situations were terrible.

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Look at the difference in coaching.

Again.  I never said he was good.  I said his situations were terrible.

I live in a world of no excuses for terrible performance. I recognize it is not perfect. But it’s a helluva lot more accurate than searching high and low for excuses to explain away what happens empirically on the field. Especially when one considers that best case excuses only can tell us that a poor performer *might* not suck. They can never be used to prove someone is good—only actual good performance can ever confirm that. My method is playing with a stacked deck and I’ll take the extra cards every time.

[funaz]

How is wanting rosen a knock on ownership.

Hell a bunch of people nwanted rosen. He was the most "pro ready" qb.

I know fans are nuts, but we went from last year where sam was a god to one game into this year where he is a bust.

To be fair to CJ all three don’t look good

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, funaz said:

How is wanting rosen a knock on ownership.

Hell a bunch of people nwanted rosen. He was the most "pro ready" qb.

I know fans are nuts, but we went from last year where sam was a god to one game into this year where he is a bust.
 

 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

Rosen was an obvious bust. Yes wanting him is an indictment.

[jetophile]

On 9/18/2020 at 9:15 AM, bitonti said:

Just once I'd like to hear something smart from the owners like they wanted Lamar Jackson or whatever

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

'Or whatever'. You know it's bad when 'whatever' is a viable answer on a laundry list of faux pas, debacles, missed opportunities, overpaying, underpaying, trading up, or abject stupidity with this organization. You almost become desensitized. I think I'll use that. "What would like for dinner tonight, honey? Pizza, or human body parts?" "Whatever."

But here's the really scary part. We keep coming back.  Here's a good face. It looks constipated. ==> ?  Hey, wait, maybe this: ==> ? No, definitely this. A twofer: ?☠️