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End of discussion: Mayfield > Darnold


Bronx

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2 minutes ago, jgb said:

Ah, ok. Here goes. The thread title is about comparing Baker to Darnold. I believe Baker is better than Darnold. That is what we are arguing about. The consequences of that belief are that Baker would do better than any situation Darnold is in (because he's better). I'll also concede that Browns have better talent but because Darnold is not a FQB, his performance improvement would be marginal or at best incremental. That is dicta, not germane to the actual discussion occurring herein. A "bonus opinion," if you will.

But you, my good man, are focusing on the trees and losing site of the forest. There are plenty--hundreds?--of ways to debate and then measure the actual crux of the debate: is Baker better than Darnold? And we don't have to depend on hypothetical universes or Freaky Friday body switches to do that. 

A proposal: Pick any traditional measure of QB success and propose it. Career Pro bowls? QBR? Playoff games? And you can mark me down for the Baker side.

I'll even spot you that Baker already won rookie of the year, and say from here on out they start even Steven. If I were you, I'd demand odds for backing Darnold.

You are arguing that Baker is better than Darnold. I was not. I never said Darnold was better than Baker

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5 minutes ago, Daddy Wang Doodle said:

You are arguing that Baker is better than Darnold. I was not. I never said Darnold was better than Baker

You disagreed with my opinion--"a clown take" was what you called it--that Baker on the Jets would be better than Darnold on the Jets. You're going to have to explain how that is not the same as you saying Darnold is better than Baker. Now it's my turn to get a beer.

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7 minutes ago, Daddy Wang Doodle said:

You are arguing that Baker is better than Darnold. I was not. I never said Darnold was better than Baker

And PS: I knew you'd come back. Whenever someone threatens they are done responding they spend the next 15 minutes hitting F5 :) 

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3 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

We don’t know yet. Darnold has no where near the talent around him that Mayfield has in addition to having and a bad coach. Right now Mayfield looks better but the jury is still out

If that jury is still out, I want them if I ever am on trial for killing someone with 6 eye witnesses, DNA, video of the actual crime, satellite imaging and a confession letter.

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1 hour ago, jgb said:

If that jury is still out, I want them if I ever am on trial for killing someone with 6 eye witnesses, DNA, video of the actual crime, satellite imaging and a confession letter.

You telling me Mayfield isn’t in a much better situation than Darnold?? Give me a break.

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43 minutes ago, DJF71 said:

Browns have a better team than Jets. Yup that's the end of the discussion.

Actually, that's the lack of discussion. This "argument" results in nihilism where no conclusions can ever be drawn. All anyone has to do is point to a specious and unproveable "weaponz differential" to support any position.

Yet, through some sort of witchcraft or time-travel, NFL GMs are accountable for extrapolating how performance in a one situation--for rookies, college and for vets, different teams/schemes/environments--will likely translate to their situation.

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2 hours ago, Bronx said:

The disgusting truth, thoughts?

You title this thread "End of discussion" and then ask for more discussion? 

Either way, Baker has Odell/Landry/Hooper/Chubb/Hunt and still hasn't done anything in his career. So not sure Baker is ready to hold up a "Better than Sam or anyone else" trophy just yet. 

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2 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Holy sh*t, Baker Mayfield would be a disaster on this team. 

100%

and I think this is another shining example of where coaching and talent comes in to play.

The Browns arguably have the best skillz players in the NFL.  Mayfield is the ultimate game manager now, 5.5ypc  30 attempt, 165 yards. 40 hand offs

Sam Darnold could 100% operate that offense with the same level of success.

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3 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Thank you what a joke!

We have guys on our team who couldn't be picked out from the witnesses protection program, with sieve OL and we wonder why another QB might be performing better on another team under totally different circumstances.

The issue is that these "supporting cast arguments" cannot carry the water you want it to. You think it's an argument that Darnold would succeed with better weapons. I challenge that. You fail to account for the most likely explanation for Darnold looking bad: that he himself is bad. His cast sucking doesn't preclude him from also sucking.

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Mayfield is playing while Darnold is out for another likely 3+ game injury/ailment, the 3rd season in a row where that will be the case.

I’ll take the guy who stays healthy, even if you could somehow prove Darnold is slightly better.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Clarence Darrow couldn't prove that with OJ's jury.

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13 minutes ago, jgb said:

The issue is that these "supporting cast arguments" cannot carry the water you want it to. You think it's an argument that Darnold would succeed with better weapons. I challenge that. You fail to account for the most likely explanation for Darnold looking bad: that he himself is bad. His cast sucking doesn't preclude him from also sucking.

We will see.....

We shall see.....

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3 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

We will see.....

We shall see.....

There's no substitute for good performance. We can only judge what we see, my friend. And if we are as objective as when we look at Daniel Jones, for example, this debate would be long over IMHO.

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