This is not tanking

[The Crusher]

3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

This is a complete embarrassment of an organization and it’s fan base. There is a difference. We are so thin, so void of talent, so void of any continuity next year that no 21 year old kid will fix this dumpster fire. Stop fooling yourself, what is happening here is not good in the long term, it’s Gona have negative effects for years 

You don’t say? Hmm, then I’m spending that playoff money ticket  I was saving and buy a Green Egg then. Thanks for the heads up Kev. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 minute ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

What don’t you understand? JD has ZERO say in the hiring or firing of Adam Gase.

Complain all you want but complain about ownership and this cockamamie organizational structure.

JD should be calling the shots. But, these are the Johnsons we’re dealing with.

They’re stubborn and stupid all at the same time.

If the goal is to tank, why are we in a rush to fire the one coach most qualified to lose every game?

[JetFreak89]

Douglas doesnt have much say or power outside of putting together the draft board. Not sure how much of a packaged deal him and Gase are at this point. I've given up in thinking the Jets would bring in a real GM, be visible and make overarching football decisions and be the point person in charge of the football operation. The best we can hope for is Douglas realizes the mistakes he made in this past draft and adjusts his evaluation process. There is no excuse for how poor of a draft this has been.

How has this been a poor draft class?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, JetFreak89 said:

How has this been a poor draft class?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

The only guy remotely producing is a punter. 

[Lil Bit Special]

7 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

You don’t say? Hmm, then I’m spending that playoff money ticket  I was saving and buy a Green Egg then. Thanks for the heads up Kev. 

[JetBlue]

3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Oh yea Trevor throwing to guys named cager will make our team whole...

you are nuts if you think any respectable hc come to this dumpster fire 

Seriously some of guys must be really young.  There have been horrible footballs throughout the years.  Hell I remember the Giants when they lost the game to Philly all those years that led to the hiring of George Young, eventual drafting of Simms, LT etc.   Stop acting like this team being terrible is something that has never happened in football before.  Do you remember the Archie Manning Saints?  The Bucs of the 80's,  They were the laughingstocks of the NFL for years.   

JD is going to be building his OWN team with his OWN handpicked quarterback and coach.   We have a ton of top picks over the next few seasons and will be accumulating more by trading players who are not in the future plans.  Darnold and Williams are two names that come to mind.   We will be flush in cash in FA.  This year we drafted Denzel Mims a super talented receiver, who unfortunately has been hurt but on the mend and should be getting some action some time over the next few week.   We may have our LT for the next decade and number of young players who we need to see on the field over the next 10 weeks to see if they will be part of the rebuild.    Sometimes you  have to bottom out so you can BUILD UP.   The countdown to Lawrence is in full effect.   Believe me there are plenty of respectable coaches who would give up a lung to be able to have a guy like Lawrence be their franchise quarterback.

[docdhc]

3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

This is a complete embarrassment of an organization and it’s fan base. There is a difference. We are so thin, so void of talent, so void of any continuity next year that no 21 year old kid will fix this dumpster fire. Stop fooling yourself, what is happening here is not good in the long term, it’s Gona have negative effects for years 

A good coach could make a big difference and turn things around in a year or two. Picking the right one, however, has never been easy for the Jets. 

[Bugg]

3 hours ago, Ben Had said:

Even with TL it will take years...shocking!

Not necessarily. But is going to require either the Johnsons selling, or at a minimum hiring a serious Big Ass Football Guy and stepping the F___back. And that means writing some serious checks and ceding control completely.

Instead they will AGAIN employ some highfalutin collection of douchebags to settle on The Next Least Offensive Coordinator -Again!- rather than a serious kick ass football coach. Again, that could be a big name, or a college guy who is the next guy. Both exist, but they won;t work for the Johnsons unless things will really be different-and cash. 

Keeps coming back to ownership. If that isn;t going to change, at least they have to change their MO. 

[TheMo]

3 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

 

We have another Idzik.  This one is just bigger and balder.

 

(Not that there's anything wrong with that @The Crusher)

I usually agree with your takes but this is very rash by your usual standards. WR definitely wasn’t improved enough. But think to yourself if you’re trying to build a team correctly after 7 consecutive drafts by idzik and Mac. He has had one draft/FA to rectify that. I think he honestly was using this year to evaluate gase and Darnold. He underestimated how bad gase was so that’s on him. 

[ChuckkieB]

1 minute ago, JetBlue said:

Seriously some of guys must be really young.  There have been horrible footballs throughout the years.  Hell I remember the Giants when they lost the game to Philly all those years that led to the hiring of George Young, eventual drafting of Simms, LT etc.   Stop acting like this team being terrible is something that has never happened in football before.  Do you remember the Archie Manning Saints?  The Bucs of the 80's,  They were the laughingstocks of the NFL for years.   

JD is going to be building his OWN team with his OWN handpicked quarterback and coach.   We have a ton of top picks over the next few seasons and will be accumulating more by trading players who are not in the future plans.  Darnold and Williams are two names that come to mind.   We will be flush in cash in FA.  This year we drafted Denzel Mims a super talented receiver, who unfortunately has been hurt but on the mend and should be getting some action some time over the next few week.   We may have our LT for the next decade and number of young players who we need to see on the field over the next 10 weeks to see if they will be part of the rebuild.    Sometimes you  have to bottom out so you can BUILD UP.   The countdown to Lawrence is in full effect. 

The Jets have been bottom feeders and the laughingstock of the league for the last 10 years (yes, I know it's been way longer than that but for the purposes of this comment, bear with me) and the problems have remained the same regardless who the GM or HC has been. The fault lies with the Johnson's and the way they run the team.  Lawrence will change nothing except buy the Jets 4 more years to be terrible while paying a QB rookie contract money during their 3rd rebuild over the last 10 years. Do you all not see a pattern here?

[Warcodered]

4 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

This is a complete embarrassment of an organization and it’s fan base. There is a difference. We are so thin, so void of talent, so void of any continuity next year that no 21 year old kid will fix this dumpster fire. Stop fooling yourself, what is happening here is not good in the long term, it’s Gona have negative effects for years 

Hey people feel better thinking it's on purpose.

[JetBlue]

27 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

The Jets have been bottom feeders and the laughingstock of the league for the last 10 years (yes, I know it's been way longer than that but for the purposes of this comment, bear with me) and the problems have remained the same regardless who the GM or HC has been. The fault lies with the Johnson's and the way they run the team.  Lawrence will change nothing except buy the Jets 4 more years to be terrible while paying a QB rookie contract money during their 3rd rebuild over the last 10 years. Do you all not see a pattern here?

I choose to disagree. We will see in a few years who is correct.   I understand your pessimism but I don't believe in lumping everyone together especially since JD hasn't been here two full seasons, much less ten.  I do agree the Johnsons have not done a good job and have been a big part of the problem.  Maybe this time they will be so embarrassed they finally get out of the way and give full authority to JD to build the team.  

If they are not willing to Let JD hire his own coach I will be in agreement with you.  Until then, I am going to give him a chance to effect a TRUE rebuild, his way.   BTW we have NEVER had a quarterback of the caliber of Lawrence unless you want to go back to Joe Namath.     Just because things have been a certain way in the past doesn't mean they will be that way in the future.   I don't see 4 terrible years with a quarterback on a rookie contract.   I see a team finally  in position to land the best quarterback prospect in a decade and have the draft picks and cap space to build a team around him.    

[jetstream23]

4 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Listen, Douglas has gotten off to a bad start. 

But he isn't going anywhere and you have to give him more than one draft and also the chance to replace the worst Jets coach I have ever seen

1 hour ago, TheMo said:

I usually agree with your takes but this is very rash by your usual standards. WR definitely wasn’t improved enough. But think to yourself if you’re trying to build a team correctly after 7 consecutive drafts by idzik and Mac. He has had one draft/FA to rectify that. I think he honestly was using this year to evaluate gase and Darnold. He underestimated how bad gase was so that’s on him. 

 

I'm taking heat here for my take, and maybe (probably) I deserve it.  I respect the opinions here as always, but I'm struggling to understand why Douglas is getting a pass after 18 months on the job if others are not.  He's been the GM for as many games as Gase has been the Head Coach, and the team the Jets are putting on the field right now is indisputably less talented than last year.  Douglas made the team worse.  That's not debatable.  Saying that he has only had one Draft and we don't know what his picks will turn out to be so we can't judge him is like saying we don't know how good Darnold can be because we've sapped the offense of talent.  It's an excuse.

So far Douglas has had one Draft and only 2-3 of those players have seen the field for even part of the time.  His FA is looking like a very mixed bag. The idea that he could take the top 5 players on this team and trade them, release them, or have them injured yet still have Gase win games or even be respectable on the field is asinine.  Joe took last year's horrible offense and removed WR1 Robby Anderson and RB1 Le'Veon Bell, while adding a rookie LT who has been hurt, a 2nd round WR who has never played, Tampa Bay's former WR3 who has played something like 6 quarters this year, and 57 year old Frank Gore.  I'll give him credit for overspending to make modest improvements with McGovern, GVR and Fant on the OLine.  On defense he sent the team's one Pro Bowl player away before the season and drafted two players, a DE who has never played and S who seems to be a special teamer most of the time.  Why is 24-0 today a surprise to anyone?  It's like the GM has cut one of the team's arms off and fans are wondering why the team is unable to clap.

We keep saying this is a results business, that Gase has no excuses, that Darnold/Flacco have no excuses, etc.  Why does Douglas?  His job is to make the team and the roster better.  It got worse AND the bar was not very high from last year to make some improvements.  I'm not sure how we can say Gase, the quarterbacks, the offense, the defense and Gregg Williams are all doing a really bad job but Joe Douglas isn't.

The tank is on for sure.  I just saw McClendon has now been traded.  But if Douglas is shipping anything of value off the team, if Christopher Johnson is emphatically endorsing the head coach, if Gase has mostly been mum on criticizing the roster.....then perhaps they are ALL in on it.  And, in that case, we should absolutely expect to see Adam Gase here next year as HC.  It's really starting to smell like he got the wink and a nod from CJ and Douglas to just stay the course, endure the pain, do what you can with this team while we dismantle it week by week even during the season.

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Lmao ? you guys are truly delirious...

Screen shoted this so when we don’t hire harbaugh I can remind you of this convo 

Good thinking

Because, you know, you'll need a reminder 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Douglas doesnt have much say or power outside of putting together the draft board. Not sure how much of a packaged deal him and Gase are at this point. I've given up in thinking the Jets would bring in a real GM, be visible and make overarching football decisions and be the point person in charge of the football operation. The best we can hope for is Douglas realizes the mistakes he made in this past draft and adjusts his evaluation process. There is no excuse for how poor of a draft this has been.

Not sure that anyone could make up something this far outside of reality

 

[jetophile]

5 hours ago, Losmeister said:

I invite all thise who told me Perriman was simply better than Anderson in every way, can eat you own sh*t....

dumbarses

Probably smarter, though. 

I'm not being mean, but I question if Robby Anderson can read beyond the 6th grade level. The other question is, how did he get into college? Yet another question, what did he major in? The final question, how did he graduate?

Quote

Temple: Anderson missed the 2014 season, however, due to academic eligibility issues. Anderson spent 2014 taking classes at a community college in Florida.

I'm glad for his sake that he's doing well . . . temporarily . . . but Robby the Genius is a classic example of why if football doesn't work out because of bad choices there is no life after football. 

[TheMo]

32 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 

I'm taking heat here for my take, and maybe (probably) I deserve it.  I respect the opinions here as always, but I'm struggling to understand why Douglas is getting a pass after 18 months on the job if others are not.  He's been the GM for as many games as Gase has been the Head Coach, and the team the Jets are putting on the field right now is indisputably less talented than last year.  Douglas made the team worse.  That's not debatable.  Saying that he has only had one Draft and we don't know what his picks will turn out to be so we can't judge him is like saying we don't know how good Darnold can be because we've sapped the offense of talent.  It's an excuse.

So far Douglas has had one Draft and only 2-3 of those players have seen the field for even part of the time.  His FA is looking like a very mixed bag. The idea that he could take the top 5 players on this team and trade them, release them, or have them injured yet still have Gase win games or even be respectable on the field is asinine.  Joe took last year's horrible offense and removed WR1 Robby Anderson and RB1 Le'Veon Bell, while adding a rookie LT who has been hurt, a 2nd round WR who has never played, Tampa Bay's former WR3 who has played something like 6 quarters this year, and 57 year old Frank Gore.  I'll give him credit for overspending to make modest improvements with McGovern, GVR and Fant on the OLine.  On defense he sent the team's one Pro Bowl player away before the season and drafted two players, a DE who has never played and S who seems to be a special teamer most of the time.  Why is 24-0 today a surprise to anyone?  It's like the GM has cut one of the team's arms off and fans are wondering why the team is unable to clap.

We keep saying this is a results business, that Gase has no excuses, that Darnold/Flacco have no excuses, etc.  Why does Douglas?  His job is to make the team and the roster better.  It got worse AND the bar was not very high from last year to make some improvements.  I'm not sure how we can say Gase, the quarterbacks, the offense, the defense and Gregg Williams are all doing a really bad job but Joe Douglas isn't.

The tank is on for sure.  I just saw McClendon has now been traded.  But if Douglas is shipping anything of value off the team, if Christopher Johnson is emphatically endorsing the head coach, if Gase has mostly been mum on criticizing the roster.....then perhaps they are ALL in on it.  And, in that case, we should absolutely expect to see Adam Gase here next year as HC.  It's really starting to smell like he got the wink and a nod from CJ and Douglas to just stay the course, endure the pain, do what you can with this team while we dismantle it week by week even during the season.

I think you are noticing differences in horizons. This is common in organizations. Douglas is taking the long term view. Adams was a disgruntled star who wanted a huge contract to stay with Jets. He also played a position that is typically not the building block for a team starting over. And he was absolutely turning the situation into a headache. JD got two firsts for this player who now is part of bottom of the barrel defense. Outside of hurting this season, it’s great long term move given the project this  team is.

 With regard to gase v Douglas. Gase had two seasons to put into place his system. Also there is less of an issue with previous coaching staffs affecting his ability to implement a system. This is why you see more frustration aimed at him. On the other hand Douglas is trying to rebuild a team that might as well have not drafted anyone for 7 years. I can’t actually even come up with a coaching analogy for this. Maybe if the coach wasn’t allowed to give out his playbook you might be creating a somewhat similar handicap. But even that doesn’t have the inertia of year after year of mistakes brought on by Mac and idzik. 

[Charlie Brown]

52 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 

I'm taking heat here for my take, and maybe (probably) I deserve it.  I respect the opinions here as always, but I'm struggling to understand why Douglas is getting a pass after 18 months on the job if others are not.  He's been the GM for as many games as Gase has been the Head Coach, and the team the Jets are putting on the field right now is indisputably less talented than last year.  Douglas made the team worse.  That's not debatable.  Saying that he has only had one Draft and we don't know what his picks will turn out to be so we can't judge him is like saying we don't know how good Darnold can be because we've sapped the offense of talent.  It's an excuse.

So far Douglas has had one Draft and only 2-3 of those players have seen the field for even part of the time.  His FA is looking like a very mixed bag. The idea that he could take the top 5 players on this team and trade them, release them, or have them injured yet still have Gase win games or even be respectable on the field is asinine.  Joe took last year's horrible offense and removed WR1 Robby Anderson and RB1 Le'Veon Bell, while adding a rookie LT who has been hurt, a 2nd round WR who has never played, Tampa Bay's former WR3 who has played something like 6 quarters this year, and 57 year old Frank Gore.  I'll give him credit for overspending to make modest improvements with McGovern, GVR and Fant on the OLine.  On defense he sent the team's one Pro Bowl player away before the season and drafted two players, a DE who has never played and S who seems to be a special teamer most of the time.  Why is 24-0 today a surprise to anyone?  It's like the GM has cut one of the team's arms off and fans are wondering why the team is unable to clap.

We keep saying this is a results business, that Gase has no excuses, that Darnold/Flacco have no excuses, etc.  Why does Douglas?  His job is to make the team and the roster better.  It got worse AND the bar was not very high from last year to make some improvements.  I'm not sure how we can say Gase, the quarterbacks, the offense, the defense and Gregg Williams are all doing a really bad job but Joe Douglas isn't.

The tank is on for sure.  I just saw McClendon has now been traded.  But if Douglas is shipping anything of value off the team, if Christopher Johnson is emphatically endorsing the head coach, if Gase has mostly been mum on criticizing the roster.....then perhaps they are ALL in on it.  And, in that case, we should absolutely expect to see Adam Gase here next year as HC.  It's really starting to smell like he got the wink and a nod from CJ and Douglas to just stay the course, endure the pain, do what you can with this team while we dismantle it week by week even during the season.

I hope that you are WRONG,,, Because this would be UNFAIR and OUTRAGEOUS conduct.

In effect you make people have anchors  (emotional connections); believe that you are telling them the TRUTH and then you have a side wink and a nod deal that is in direct opposition from what you have said, that isn't business that is just being deceitful.

 

 

[jetstream23]

15 hours ago, TheMo said:

I think you are noticing differences in horizons. This is common in organizations. Douglas is taking the long term view. Adams was a disgruntled star who wanted a huge contract to stay with Jets. He also played a position that is typically not the building block for a team starting over. And he was absolutely turning the situation into a headache. JD got two firsts for this player who now is part of bottom of the barrel defense. Outside of hurting this season, it’s great long term move given the project this  team is.

 With regard to gase v Douglas. Gase had two seasons to put into place his system. Also there is less of an issue with previous coaching staffs affecting his ability to implement a system. This is why you see more frustration aimed at him. On the other hand Douglas is trying to rebuild a team that might as well have not drafted anyone for 7 years. I can’t actually even come up with a coaching analogy for this. Maybe if the coach wasn’t allowed to give out his playbook you might be creating a somewhat similar handicap. But even that doesn’t have the inertia of year after year of mistakes brought on by Mac and idzik. 

I lol'd.  That's not a bad analogy.

It is absolutely understood that Joe's eye is towards the future.  This team likely won't even be decent until 2022 at the earliest.  Trading Adams, getting rid of Trumaine, Bell, etc. are all smart moves for the future.  But what are Douglas and CJ telling Gase about all this?  Is Gase not going up to Douglas every day saying, "You are getting rid of every decent player on this team.  You are not replacing any of them right now.  We ignored players who would make us better in free agency.  I get it if we're trying to tear it down and then build it up, but don't hold it against me if I can't scare defenses by faking handoffs to Frank Gore and throwing the football to Braxton Berrios while Chuma Edoga blocks for Joe fricken Flacco."

I think my concern is that Gase is in on it.  That he's getting the wink and the nod from Douglas who is saying, "Sit tight...it will get uglier before it gets better.  But it will get better and you'll be here to see that."

[kevinc855]

4 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

What do you think tanking looks like??

Rebuilds aren’t done this way 

[jetstream23]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

AWLLLL Also DUGGLASS'S FAWLT

Fixed.

JD is a part of this as much as some people want to believe he’s not.

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

I lol'd.  That's not a bad analogy.

It is absolutely understood that Joe's eye is towards the future.  This team likely won't even be decent until 2022 at the earliest.  Trading Adams, getting rid of Trumaine, Bell, etc. are all smart moves for the future.  But what are Douglas and CJ telling Gase about all this?  Is Gase not going up to Douglas every day saying, "You are getting rid of every decent player on this team.  You are not replacing any of them right now.  We ignored players who would make us better in free agency.  I get it if we're trying to tear it down and then build it up, but don't hold it against me if I can't scare defenses by faking handoffs to Frank Gore and throwing the football to Braxton Berrios while Chuma Edoga blocks for Joe fricken Flacco."

I think my concern is that Gase is in on it.  That's he getting the wink and the nod from Douglas who is saying, "Sit tight...it will get uglier before it gets better.  But it will get better and you'll be here to see that."

The first move Douglas has to make going forward is to very clearly and emphatically separate himself from this head coach. Step 1.

[Wonderboy]

5 hours ago, Bugg said:

Not necessarily. But is going to require either the Johnsons selling, or at a minimum hiring a serious Big Ass Football Guy and stepping the F___back. And that means writing some serious checks and ceding control completely.

Instead they will AGAIN employ some highfalutin collection of douchebags to settle on The Next Least Offensive Coordinator -Again!- rather than a serious kick ass football coach. Again, that could be a big name, or a college guy who is the next guy. Both exist, but they won;t work for the Johnsons unless things will really be different-and cash. 

Keeps coming back to ownership. If that isn;t going to change, at least they have to change their MO. 

Why would they do that. They just put Hymie in control. 

[Jetsfan80]

9 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Fixed.

JD is a part of this as much as some people want to believe he’s not.

lol.  You said he should RESIGN and you're trying to lecture me on just how much fault he should be assessed?  Your opinion on this is invalid.

[jetstream23]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol.  You said he should RESIGN and you're trying to lecture me on just how much fault he should be assessed?  Your opinion on this is invalid.

 

C'mon 80! "Resign" was clearly some hyperbole on my part. But since we're throwing around ideas like not letting Gase get back on the plane after the game, trading Darnold before the Jets even know where they will be drafting, etc. it fit right in here!  And, I'm not lecturing you.  

Tell me, other than accumulating money and draft picks (see "Idzik 12") what has Joe D done to improve the team?  Overspending on Fant, drafting a bunch of guys who haven't seen the field, letting the one good WR this team had walk away for a few bucks....these are positives simply because we "hope" JD will use the resources he has to rebuild the team correctly?  That's like saying we hope Gase will be better once JD stops subtracting talent and starts adding good players.

It doesn't take much skill to crash a car that's already missing a wheel, a door and has no power steering.  But a competent driver can at least get that car to the dealership lot to trade it in before he gets us the Ferrari he seems to be promising.  I agree that Douglas deserves the benefit of some time here, but as of now he's built a bridge to nowhere.  There's no sight of a plan other than a prayer by Jets fans (and probably Douglas) that Trevor Lawrence somehow lands with the Jets.  And, heaven help that poor kid once he gets here!

I want to see some indications that Joe has a plan, that he's adding the right kind of talent.  So far, the only hint has been some early positives from his now injured rookie LT.  It's a tiny bright spot on what looks to be one of the worst teams in NFL (and possibly sports) history.  The pace this team is on is almost indescribable.  A loss to Denver by 9 points is the bright spot 6 games into the season with a roster that is now 80% comprised of guys that JD signed, drafted or actively retained.  This is his baby...and it's an ugly baby!  But I guess we'll give him a pass because....actually, I don't know why.

[TheMo]

17 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

I lol'd.  That's not a bad analogy.

It is absolutely understood that Joe's eye is towards the future.  This team likely won't even be decent until 2022 at the earliest.  Trading Adams, getting rid of Trumaine, Bell, etc. are all smart moves for the future.  But what are Douglas and CJ telling Gase about all this?  Is Gase not going up to Douglas every day saying, "You are getting rid of every decent player on this team.  You are not replacing any of them right now.  We ignored players who would make us better in free agency.  I get it if we're trying to tear it down and then build it up, but don't hold it against me if I can't scare defenses by faking handoffs to Frank Gore and throwing the football to Braxton Berrios while Chuma Edoga blocks for Joe fricken Flacco."

I think my concern is that Gase is in on it.  That he's getting the wink and the nod from Douglas who is saying, "Sit tight...it will get uglier before it gets better.  But it will get better and you'll be here to see that."

My hope is that Douglas can see that separate of the talent issues the scheme/culture he is building sucks. I mean mangini took a pretty awful roster to 4-12. But I understand your concern. Hoping jd is not planning to keep gase. Would lose a lot of faith in the plan if that’s the case.