Wirfs rated higher then Becton

[Losmeister]

19 hours ago, The Crusher said:

I guess my point was it’s easier to lose when you already been losing. Like mailing it in, in a sense. 

demoralization happens, thats true. as the losses accrue it may become harder and harder to maintain intensity.

i think with so many youngins now playing...   they have EVERYTHING to play for, MAKE A MARK   et cet

[bla bla bla]

1 hour ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

This is a story behind the numbers thing for me, and I can be completely wrong on this since I am unsure what A PBLK and RBLK win% takes into consideration and how these PFF grades pass and run blocking, but a few things that immediately jump to my mind. 

1) the amount of time Becton is asked to pass block for over Wirfs.  Obviously tom brady is known for getting the ball out of his hands rather quickly, while wirfs here is asked to pass block at a higher frequency than becton (brady has the second or first most pass attempts in the league i believe) he is pass blocking shorter on each play which contributes to his success.  By contrast becton is being asked to protect a QB's blind side, and block for a much longer time because of sam darnolds inability to get the ball out of his hands.  On multiple occasions sam has scrambled up into a pocket when he should scramble out, or vise versa all while holding onto the ball for toolong.  

2) I cant find the numbers but id be interested to see on running plays how many of them go in wirfs direction vs bectons and how that factors into runblocking % and grades. 

I dont know who is actually better, just by the eye test watching games I see more flashes of absolute dominance from becton than I have from wirfs but wirfs so far has graded out better and obviously has been more durable at this point. 

Good points, was going to say the same thing. Here are the Rush directions for the primary RBs, I didn't include Bell so maybe that looks slightly different. Becton also hasn't played every game so depending on when these rushes happened it will skew his stats in one direction or another.

[kevinc855]

3 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

How can you even pretend to know what his ego is?

Easy. Human observation...

[Dunnie]

For a tackle... availability is a massive indication of greatness. LOVE Becton ... but I hope this year is a fluke.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

[Losmeister]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

For a tackle... availability is a massive indication of greatness. LOVE Becton ... but I hope this year is a fluke.
 

[Losmeister]

On 11/19/2020 at 6:49 AM, HessStation said:

I think the answer is, ask yourself if you were starting a new franchise today and got to pick one player out of the OL group to put on your team who would you take ....and it’s not even close as I’d guess the same for almost all NFL execs and it’s Becton.  
And fwiw I usually tend to play contrarian and not give good Jets players enough credit while they are on the team, ie Robbie Anderson as an example. 
Becton is next level, legit potential HOF without injuries. I’d probably take him #1 overall in a redraft 

talk about hyperbole

[Charlie Brown]

On 11/18/2020 at 4:54 PM, GreenFish said:

I’d still take Becton over Wirfs. 

Thank you.
 

Let me get this right folks are already taking gratuitous shots at perhaps the best player on the Jets currently who is a rookie and the best draft pick for the Jets in over a decade!!

Good Grief...   

[Losmeister]

2 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Thank you.
 

Let me get this right folks are already taking gratuitous shots at perhaps the best player on the Jets currently who is a rookie and the best draft pick for the Jets in over a decade!!

Good Grief...   

kid's played less than 1/2 a season...  and he's thebest pick in a decade? smfh

i like the kid. he looks like the real deal.   remember when Sam was a shoe in to be a top 10 QB for 10 yrs minimum

just cos JN said so?

[papz187]

It's great to have ridiculous talent if you're OT, it's another to be available.  D'Brick missed 1 snap his entire career and that was because he was pulled on trick play.  Meanwhile, Becton pulled himself from a game when he had a cold.  
Currently, Tristan Wirfs has not missed a snap.
 

I could of sworn the play he missed was because his helmet got stuck in someone elses helmet? Or had a shoe stuck in his helmet? Something weird like that where he had to miss a play to get his helmet back....something like that....I remember watching it

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[Sperm Edwards]

On 11/19/2020 at 11:38 AM, The Crusher said:

That’s perfectly fine but I also think Robby wanted to play for his old college coach again. Only way he would stay is if we beat their offer considerably. Now of course, should just extended him before he he was  a free agent. 

Perhaps, but JD's own comments suggest retaining him was well within his reach. Never mind it never should have gotten to that point in the first place. He should have been extended at midseason at the latest when Douglas was turning down draft picks for RA's last half-season here. But a career backup/meh TE he jumps on extending for his age 30-32 seasons. 

At least it seems he can draft, and gets that, on a team with needs all over, you don't use your highest picks at S and ILB. The picks don't all pan out for even the best of them, but there was serious strategy up to the Morgan pick. LT with unique upside, WR with "#1" body/potential, a S who allows him to parlay his existing malcontent into (what eventually became) a pair of 1s and a 3, and an edge rusher. Morgan felt like a c*ck block to NE instead of building for oneself with good talent still on the board, but after that there were 2 more shots at high need + high dollar FA positions: OL again, and then CB. 7th round who cares, since just making the roster once is a statistical success so a highly rated punter - who'll get plenty of work early - is a sound pick when one's own out there from the prior year was a meh UFA the month before.

 

[TuscanyTile2]

If given the opportunity to trade Becton straight up for any of the other 3 OL from the top of his draft class (Thomas, Wills, Wirfs), would you make the trade?  I wouldn’t 

[Scott Dierking]

39 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Perhaps, but JD's own comments suggest retaining him was well within his reach. Never mind it never should have gotten to that point in the first place. He should have been extended at midseason at the latest when Douglas was turning down draft picks for RA's last half-season here. But a career backup/meh TE he jumps on extending for his age 30-32 seasons. 

At least it seems he can draft, and gets that, on a team with needs all over, you don't use your highest picks at S and ILB. The picks don't all pan out for even the best of them, but there was serious strategy up to the Morgan pick. LT with unique upside, WR with "#1" body/potential, a S who allows him to parlay his existing malcontent into (what eventually became) a pair of 1s and a 3, and an edge rusher. Morgan felt like a c*ck block to NE instead of building for oneself with good talent still on the board, but after that there were 2 more shots at high need + high dollar FA positions: OL again, and then CB. 7th round who cares, since just making the roster once is a statistical success so a highly rated punter - who'll get plenty of work early - is a sound pick when one's own out there from the prior year was a meh UFA the month before.

 

All fair points. But I believe it to be difficult in judging a GM's total philosophy based upon 1 draft, 1 free agency period. Particularly, which you illuminate correctly, there are so many holes on the team.

It will be much more fair to judge JD's draft philosophy and team building ideals after he has had 2-3 off seasons. Heck, he went to the supermarket with the cupboard basically bare. His credit card limit does not allow him to shop for the entire meal. He picked up, bread, milk, eggs and then went aspirin and aluminum foil. Maybe he felt he was shopping at Costco on this trip, and some of the aisles were not well stocked. Hopefully, his trip follows with Wegmans now, and he negotiated with the bank a larger credit line.

[Barry McCockinner]

14 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If given the opportunity to trade Becton straight up for any of the other 3 OL from the top of his draft class (Thomas, Wills, Wirfs), would you make the trade?  I wouldn’t 

Not at this time but if he keeps missing games for the common cold I reserve the right to reevaluate.

[HessStation]

3 hours ago, Losmeister said:

talk about hyperbole

[JustInFudge]

3 hours ago, papz187 said:

I could of sworn the play he missed was because his helmet got stuck in someone elses helmet? Or had a shoe stuck in his helmet? Something weird like that where he had to miss a play to get his helmet back....something like that....I remember watching it

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 

Perhaps the most impressive aspect of the career of D’Brickashaw Ferguson, the Jets left tackle who has decided to retire, is this: In 10 seasons, he missed only one offensive play. And that one comes with an asterisk.

That one play was the last play of the Jets’ 2008 season. Down 24-17 with seven seconds left and the ball at their own 7-yard line, the Jets decided to take their offensive line off the field for a desperation, multiple-lateral play. It was Darrelle Revis, of all people, who lined up at left tackle on the play.

The play, which is on YouTube, started with Brad Smith (who replaced Brett Favre on the play) taking the snap at quarterback and throwing to Leon Washington, who threw it across the field to Laveranues Coles, who pitched it back to Smith, who pitched it back to Revis, who pitched it to Hank Poteat, who fumbled while attempting to lateral it to Jerricho Cotchery. The Dolphins recovered the fumble, securing the win and clinching the AFC East in a season when Tom Brady was injured and the division was actually competitive for a change.

Other than that bizarre play, Ferguson never missed a play. He also never missed a practice and never appeared on an injury report. A 2006 first-round pick of the Jets whom many fans wanted the Jets to pass up on and draft Matt Leinart instead, Ferguson may be remembered as the most consistent player of his generation.

[section314]

Just amazing stuff. Although, I seem to remember a couple of plays in the AFC championship game vs the Steelers that I wish he missed.?

[Losmeister]

9 hours ago, HessStation said:

over the following Howie Long, Mike Singletary and Rickey Jackson (HOFers) 

as well as James Wilder, Eric Wright and Cris Collingsworth

,marion barber selected in the 2nd rnd

[MichaelScott]

On 11/18/2020 at 4:00 PM, JiF said:

It's great to have ridiculous talent if you're OT, it's another to be available.  D'Brick missed 1 snap his entire career and that was because he was pulled on trick play.  Meanwhile, Becton pulled himself from a game when he had a cold.  

Currently, Tristan Wirfs has not missed a snap.

 

Becton has looked absolutely dominant but his ability to see the field some 50% of the time is alarming to say the least. It's only one season and I dont know if he was like this in college but I would take Brick and his availability over Bectons dominance for half the season. 

Havent seen any Bucs games but Becton has been a walking highlight reel. Hard to imagine Wirfs being so significantly more dominating. 

[Sperm Edwards]

11 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

All fair points. But I believe it to be difficult in judging a GM's total philosophy based upon 1 draft, 1 free agency period. Particularly, which you illuminate correctly, there are so many holes on the team.

It will be much more fair to judge JD's draft philosophy and team building ideals after he has had 2-3 off seasons. Heck, he went to the supermarket with the cupboard basically bare. His credit card limit does not allow him to shop for the entire meal. He picked up, bread, milk, eggs and then went aspirin and aluminum foil. Maybe he felt he was shopping at Costco on this trip, and some of the aisles were not well stocked. Hopefully, his trip follows with Wegmans now, and he negotiated with the bank a larger credit line.

I totally agree, as illustrated by - to continue the metaphor - when his cupboard was barren at least he didn’t first start by shopping for ketchup.

[Sammybighead]

Becton is a top 10 LT in this league already. Can we please end this discussion now?

[Integrity28]

Kris Jenkins was also dominant, when he was in the field.

[Integrity28]

13 hours ago, HessStation said:

In a film filled with incredible dialogue, often overlooked because of the childish aesthetic, this may be the most poignant.

[Integrity28]

13 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If given the opportunity to trade Becton straight up for any of the other 3 OL from the top of his draft class (Thomas, Wills, Wirfs), would you make the trade?  I wouldn’t 

Depends. Would we also net a sixth rounder that could then be spent on a 6th string QB?

[Defense Wins Championships]

Remove Wirfs from RT and a HOF Brady who releases the football quicker than anybody with weapons everywhere in Mike Evans, Antonio Brown, Chris Godwin, Rob Gronkowski and Jones/Fournette @ RB and place him @ LEFT TACKLE alongside Sam/Flacco with Mims, Berrios, Perriman, Herndon lol and FRANK GORE and then get back to me on those recently installed pay for crap "PFF" rankings.

Did sports fans ever need "PFF" to determine Montana, Jerry Rice, Curtis Martin, Tom Brady and Orlando Pace's etc greatness? It's the most bullcrap rating system I've ever seen. 

So I guess Wirfs better than Becton because PFF says so?

Where was PFF when the world seen with our own eyes Revis was the greatest since #21 primetime?

PFF was founded by Neil Hornsby in the United Kingdom. 

Lol

 

[Defense Wins Championships]

From an American I can honestly say that the UK should keep their nose out of American Football (and stick to grading rugby/cricket/soccer) it's an absolutely horrible player grading system. 

"PFF grades every NFL player on every play on a scale of -2 to +2 using half point increments.^[6] The grades are based on context and performance. A four-yard run that gains a first down after two broken tackles will receive a better grade than a four-yard run on 3rd & 5, where the ball carrier does nothing more than expected. A quarterback who makes a good pass that a receiver tips into the arms of a defender will not negatively affect the quarterback's grade on that play, despite the overall negative result for the team.

Furthermore, grades are separated by play type. Beyond just an overall grade, an offensive lineman receives one grade for pass-blocking and one for run-blocking.^[7] The average grade is meant to be zero, and raw grades are normalized.

In watching every game, PFF is also able to record information and create data that is typically unavailable. One example is how frequently individual offensive linemen yield pressure.

CriticismEdit

PFF has been criticized by the analytics community regarding the accuracy and veracity of its ratings.^[9] In contrast to the purely quantitative ratings released by sources like Football Outsiders, TeamRankings, and numberFire, PFF uses qualitative and opinion-based grading as the root of its 0-100 Player Grades -- not its advanced statistics. As such, the 0-100 Player Grades are not truly quantitative and could be seen as being prone to bias, poor sample sizing, or other issues".

It's a joke!

[Matt39]

12 hours ago, Sammybighead said:

Becton is a top 10 LT in this league already. Can we please end this discussion now?

He’s also the first NFL player in history to leave a game with the sniffles.

[Jethead]

On 11/19/2020 at 11:42 AM, Scott Dierking said:

How can you even pretend to know what his ego is?

Hey, it's America. Now that we have alternative facts anything can be true 

[Jetsfan80]

On 11/21/2020 at 5:43 AM, Losmeister said:

kid's played less than 1/2 a season...  and he's thebest pick in a decade? smfh

i like the kid. he looks like the real deal.   remember when Sam was a shoe in to be a top 10 QB for 10 yrs minimum

just cos JN said so?

Sam Darnold never played at a top 10 level once in his career.  Becton has had multiple games in his rookie season already where he looked like a top LT right now, and even graded out as such.

[Philc1]

On 11/21/2020 at 1:15 PM, TuscanyTile2 said:

If given the opportunity to trade Becton straight up for any of the other 3 OL from the top of his draft class (Thomas, Wills, Wirfs), would you make the trade?  I wouldn’t 

Absolutely not.  Thomas has been so bad he’s causing the HC and Ol coach to get into fistfights