The Stick with Darnold Thread

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

I disagree completely...

With what part?

That they’re unlikely to be good next year?
or that they’ll have to trade up to get a quality QB if they end up with an average season?

or do you think they’ll be picking at 2 again next year?
 

 

[T0mShane]

35 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Zach Wilson is only 2 years younger than Darnold and he has legitimate durability concerns, especially at the NFL level. I can see why there are those in the Jets building who are against betting (their careers) on Zach's shoulders shouldering the load of a 17 game season in the NFL.

 

What you take away from these things is that actual players in the league think that Darnold might be good, Darnold is a good soldier, Gase and Maccagnan screwed him over, and Zach Wilson doesn’t look to be a significant upgrade over Darnold. If Darnold wasn’t respected inside the locker room, guys like Bart Scott would have that information, but it doesn’t seem to be the case.

[munchmemory]

Just now, NYJ1 said:

And neither will Joe Douglas if he continues to do his job well....

JD got a pass for last year.  But after deciding to go with Darnold this year?  And another losing season with Darnold playing like...well Darnold?  This gets JD fired.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Big_Slick said:

So if they decide to roll with Sam again you're going to root against him?

I don't want Wilson but if he's the pick I'm going to support him all the way.

When did I say, or even imply, that  I wouldn't root for him?

[Creepy Lurker]

If I hear about Darnold’s age one more time, I’m going to snap. He’s a useless, soft, sack of sh*t. He had 3 abysmal years, no fire and is not a leader. His contract situation alone makes sticking with him not smart or likely. All these idiots need to shut up. 

[NYJ1]

33 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

it is pretty interesting that the tickets have sam darnold on them.......

I don't think that indicative of anything 

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

JD got a pass for last year.  But after deciding to go with Darnold this year?  And another losing season with Darnold playing like...well Darnold?  This gets JD fired.

And if Wilson looks even okay wherever he goes - there is a good chance he doesn’t come back.  
 

JD knows this. Won’t happen.  Sam’s gone. 

[genot]

One of the things that has bothered me for a while is the dogmatic view that.the Darnold detractors have. The view, that if we keep Darnold, he will still be the same QB we've seen the last two years According to you guys, they're only could be one outcome. Enjoy your posts. Respect and understand what you're saying. Honestly, though. Nobody can be that sure about what the outcome will be, if Darnold is back next year.

[NYJ1]

4 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

JD got a pass for last year.  But after deciding to go with Darnold this year?  And another losing season with Darnold playing like...well Darnold?  This gets JD fired.

No way that's going to happen if he continues to draft well....

[Jetscode1]

31 minutes ago, PS17 said:

It seems like more than 75% of sports talking heads are saying “stick with Darnold.” I think the majority of these takes are rooted in the lazy take that Darnold is a good player that’s been ruined by an awful organization that can never do anything right. While the latter point is true, anyone who’s watched the team for more than a couple quarters has seen that Darnold doesn’t see open receivers, consistently makes awful decisions leading to turnovers, has dubious mechanics, and gets hurt every year. He hasn’t improved on any of his flaws dating back to USC. It’s time to start over.

There was a reason Cleveland chose Baker over Darnold and as you suggested the talking heads also want to point out the obviously flawed organizational support.  I still think the talking heads would rather discuss the Jets continued suckage and sticking with Sam only leads to the continuation.  

[Big_Slick]

5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

When did I say, or even imply, that  I wouldn't root for him?

The part where you said  "I can't wait until we keep Sam, he throws two idiotic red zone interceptions on opening day".

[joewilly12]

Just now, genot said:

One of the things that has bothered me for a while is the dogmatic view that.the Darnold detractors have. The view, that if we keep Darnold, he will still be the same QB we've seen the last two years According to you guys, they're only could be one outcome. Enjoy your posts. Respect and understand what you're saying. Honestly, though. Nobody can be that sure about what the outcome will be, if Darnold is back next year.

No we cannot but we have seen 3 years of bad decision making and bad football with him as QB with an occasional good game win. 

It is what it is we cannot control who the QB will be. 

[NYJ1]

6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

With what part?

That they’re unlikely to be good next year?
or that they’ll have to trade up to get a quality QB if they end up with an average season?

or do you think they’ll be picking at 2 again next year?
 

 

ALL of it...

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

27 minutes ago, PS17 said:

It seems like more than 75% of sports talking heads are saying “stick with Darnold.” I think the majority of these takes are rooted in the lazy take that Darnold is a good player that’s been ruined by an awful organization that can never do anything right. While the latter point is true, anyone who’s watched the team for more than a couple quarters has seen that Darnold doesn’t see open receivers, consistently makes awful decisions leading to turnovers, has dubious mechanics, and gets hurt every year. He hasn’t improved on any of his flaws dating back to USC. It’s time to start over.

I was one of the biggest Darnold supporters on this board after watching his college play and the flashes he had as a rookie.

Yes he has been dealt as bad a hand as almost any QB drafted I’ve ever seen.  One of the worst OLs in league history.  Absolutely no running game to fall back on.  Virtually all receivers who never get any separation.  Horrible coaching.  But I recently saw a statistic pertaining to his 3rd year in the league.  His completion percentage when throwing from a clean pocket (rare I know, but this should not be)....LAST in the NFL.

Time to move on.  He’s definitely broken, in that he he looked better in his Rookie year than he does today.  He has thoroughly regressed.

A totally new coaching staff of what appears to be REAL NFL Quality (no more little King of Queens guy to remind you winning is really not at the top of the Johnson Jets agenda) deserves to have fresh new personnel on many levels....starting with starting QB.

[Alka]

26 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

Darnold is not competitive.  He doesn't hate losing.

The great ones DESPISE losing.   They hate losing more than they enjoy winning.

Never once has Darnold displayed that characteristic in any game he has played in 3 years.

I disagree with you.  Let me explain.  I am a very competitive person, and I hate losing.  But, if you put me in a situation where I feel that I have no chance to win, then I lose my emotional edge, and it appears that I don't care.  

I used to be a very competitive tennis player in high school.  I was #1 on my team for 2 years, and ranked 3rd in my county.  When I played someone who was in my league, whether they were better than me or equal to me, then that brought out the best in me.  If I lost, it would haunt me for years, and I would never get over it.

Although it rarely happened, I had to play someone a couple of times that I was unable to compete against, because that person was technically far superior to me, and while I hated to lose to those players, it appeared that I wasn't that upset, even though I was.

I think the same is true for Sam.  He's got garbage coaching, garbage wide receivers, garbage offensive line, garbage primary running back, who should have retired before last year in Gore.

How upset should he appear to be?  If he blames anyone but himself, it appears that he is not a leader and doesn't have the backs of his players.  

I don't blame Darnold; I blame the organization for putting him in this horrible situation.

[Charlie Brown]

35 minutes ago, Jetty said:

This is one of my biggest issues with Darnold.  He just seems to lack passion for the game. 
 

Unfortunately, I do think we should keep him bc I think we can get a lot more value from trading back then drafting at 2. Too many holes on this roster right now.

 

However, if we can trade back and still get a good QB then Darnold can be sent to Pitt or Carolina.

I think that we should keep Sam & Draft a QB like Wilson!

But where is this idea that Darnold be competitive come from

Please listen to the clip starting from 5:08

 

[munchmemory]

4 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

No way that's going to happen if he continues to draft well....

We go 2-14 again with Darnold looking as lost as ever and he's GONE.  No matter who he drafts.

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, genot said:

One of the things that has bothered me for a while is the dogmatic view that.the Darnold detractors have. The view, that if we keep Darnold, he will still be the same QB we've seen the last two years According to you guys, they're only could be one outcome. Enjoy your posts. Respect and understand what you're saying. Honestly, though. Nobody can be that sure about what the outcome will be, if Darnold is back next year.

Can you name an example of a guy who was the literal worst QB in the league after 3 years of starting and then was good?

[oatmeal]

6 minutes ago, genot said:

One of the things that has bothered me for a while is the dogmatic view that.the Darnold detractors have. The view, that if we keep Darnold, he will still be the same QB we've seen the last two years According to you guys, they're only could be one outcome. Enjoy your posts. Respect and understand what you're saying. Honestly, though. Nobody can be that sure about what the outcome will be, if Darnold is back next year.

Not according to Steve young someone close to Zach’s family ?‍♂️

[joewilly12]

Just now, munchmemory said:

We go 2-14 again with Darnold looking as lost as ever and he's GONE.  No matter who he drafts.

If Robert Saleh sticks with Sam Darold all 2021 season and we finish 2-15 we have more issues than just the QB. 

[ZachEY]

10 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

When did I say, or even imply, that  I wouldn't root for him?

One thing that’s exceptionally clear is that there’s an inverse relationship between Darnold support and capacity for nuanced thought.

[K_O_Brien]

8 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Joe has to win.  You need a QB to win.  
 

if JD keeps Sam and the Jets win 5 games, they‘ll be massive pressure.  JD will get one more year after to get to the playoffs.   
 

Take a QB at 2 and it resets the clock with the fan base.

bottom line, keep Sam and it’s a win now team - with a roster that isn’t capable of winning now.   

Imagine if this actually happens and you are Douglas's shoes this time next year. Coming off a 5-12 record, you now have to move on from Darnold, similar to what the Bears have just done with Trubisky (who actually made the play-offs but whatever).

You're now 14-35 as a GM and on the hot seat. You are picking number 9 in the draft and are seriously considering using multiple first round draft picks to move up for Tyler Shough. 

Fun times. 

[munchmemory]

7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

And if Wilson looks even okay wherever he goes - there is a good chance he doesn’t come back.  
 

JD knows this. Won’t happen.  Sam’s gone. 

Dude, I want Darnold gone as bad as anyone.  I thought JD would have unloaded the JAG by now.  Going this long with him still on the roster scares me.  

[joewilly12]

Just now, K_O_Brien said:

Imagine if this actually happens and you are Douglas's shoes this time next year. Coming off a 5-12 record, you now have to move on from Darnold, similar to what the Bears have just done with Trubisky (who actually made the play-offs but whatever).

You're now 14-35 as a GM and on the hot seat. You are picking number 9 in the draft and are seriously considering using multiple first round draft picks to move up for Tyler Shough. 

Fun times. 

Banners and billboards will be up. 

[FidelioJet]

5 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

No way that's going to happen if he continues to draft well....

He hasn’t drafted well. He really hasn’t done anything particularly well. Hasn’t been bad either. He’s still very much an unknown.  
 

All he’s down so far is tear down a team (which was necessary and he did a good job with) but that’s the easy part.  
This FA period has been eh so far.  Long way before the season starts - I expect the team to still be upgraded. 

huge draft for him, but, IMO, we can’t say he’s drafted well yet.  

[oatmeal]

1 minute ago, K_O_Brien said:

Imagine if this actually happens and you are Douglas's shoes this time next year. Coming off a 5-12 record, you now have to move on from Darnold, similar to what the Bears have just done with Trubisky (who actually made the play-offs but whatever).

You're now 14-35 as a GM and on the hot seat. You are picking number 9 in the draft and are seriously considering using multiple first round draft picks to move up for Tyler Shough. 

Fun times. 

[Alka]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

If Robert Saleh sticks with Sam Darold all 2021 season and we finish 2-15 we have more issues than just the QB. 

If we draft Wilson, and he stinks, and Darnold goes to another team and does well, what do you think the issues will be then?  

We could play the "what if" game all day.

[JohnnyLV]

16 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

This is exactly what I've been saying today and getting destroyed over. There really aren't many that have taken this stance. I'm 100% on board with Greeny, Bart, and Jeff Saturday. 

And honestly, I think the idea of trading down and collecting a kings ransom is too enticing for me (and hopefully JD) to pass up. JD DOES NOT have to pick a QB now. He can take a QB next year or the year following. I just love the idea of being able to fill so many holes on the roster in one draft. The silver lining here is the Jets have so many holes on there roster that you'd be filling a need with almost every pick in this draft.

Serious question: If the Jets were trading down don't you think it would have happened already?

PFF by the way has an interesting take on this. They say the best to build a team is to draft the highest paid players early in the draft, because the salaries are so inexpensive compared to an established player.

This is the most true for a QB. The slotted QB salary is so low that it has the equivalence in terms of building team talent of 4 additional players. It makes sense if you think about it the average long term QB makes around $25 to $30 million dollars

So in the PFF analysis the 49ers trade almost always works out better for 49ers. I think it was around 70% in favor of the 49ers.

So the Jets since they have the #2 pick already have an overwhelming amount of value for that pick and far greater than any package we would get for #2. And not even close. Even if Wilson is the same as what Sam could be the Jets are FAR ahead. And with his skills he could be elite. Sam never ever will be                                                                                                                                              

[oatmeal]

Just now, Alka said:

If we draft Wilson, and he stinks, and Darnold goes to another team and does well, what do you think the issues will be then?  

We could play the "what if" game all day.

That’s a fantasy, name a team where darnold could go and start rn.. I’ll wait..........

[JohnnyLV]

38 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

JMO, but I don't think Bart's opinion here is dumb at all. The Jets do NOT have to move on from Darnold right now. They can do that later.....

What does that look like exactly? What is your plan to address it later?

[slimjasi]

10 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

The part where you said  "I can't wait until we keep Sam, he throws two idiotic red zone interceptions on opening day".

"I can't wait" is a figure of speech you muppet. 

[oatmeal]

1 minute ago, johnnysd said:

Serious question: If the Jets were trading down don't you think it would have happened already?

PFF by the way has an interesting take on this. They say the best to build a team is to draft the highest paid players early in the draft, because the salaries are so inexpensive compared to an established player.

This is the most true for a QB. The slotted QB salary is so low that it has the equivalence in terms of building team talent of 4 additional players. It makes sense if you think about it the average long term QB makes around $25 to $30 million dollars

So in the PFF analysis the 49ers trade almost always works out better for 49ers. I think it was around 70% in favor of the 49ers.

So the Jets since they have the #2 pick already have an overwhelming amount of value for that pick and far greater than any package we would get for #2. And not even close. Even if Wilson is the same as what Sam could be the Jets are FAR ahead. And with his skills he could be elite. Sam never ever will be                                                                                                                                              

Damn great post!

[PS17]

4 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

One thing that’s exceptionally clear is that there’s an inverse relationship between Darnold support and capacity for nuanced thought.

Because Jets fans have Stockholm Syndrome. 

[kdels62]

26 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

That's another MYTH I'd like to address.....

Joe Douglas is NOT going to lose his job if he doesn't take Zach Wilson in this draft. That's ludicrous. If Joe Douglas continues to draft well he's not going anywhere. Joe Douglas can take a QB whenever and he'll be forever linked to that QB. The Jets ownership and fanbase has been searching high and low to find a decent GM. It's seems like right now we may have found one? So the idea that JD doesn't draft player X makes him Mike Macagnan is simply not true. 

No, he’d lose his job if he bets on Darnold. He doesn’t need to take Wilson, he needs to not bet on the worst QB in the league.

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, Alka said:

If we draft Wilson, and he stinks, and Darnold goes to another team and does well, what do you think the issues will be then?  

We could play the "what if" game all day.

With that logic we will never win. "What if" is no way to go through life or the NFL.