Man ... I cannot stand this guy Peter King

[jetsons]

He's 100% Correct. .. Truth Hurts

[slimjasi]

The heritage is "dim"

He's not wrong. 

Hopefully, that finally starts to change with the next QB

[kevinc855]

43 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Oh look who joined the party!  

I'm sure we will Kevin...You and your clan should be very happy.....or not.

Good to be here....

When the jets win it makes my entire week.....

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, The Crusher said:

It’s so not different, it’s practically identical minus the hopefully improve coaching staff. Wilson seems to be more accurate but the majority of what he does well with his off balanced throwing on the run and backyard ball seems pretty similar  to one Sam Darnold. 

Zach Wilson had 3 INT's and 3 fumbles last season.  In his final year at USC, Darnold had 13 INT's and 11 fumbles.  

 

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Zach Wilson had 3 INT's and 3 fumbles last season.  In his final year in school Darnold had 13 INT's and 11 fumbles.  

How many games did Darnold play against Costal Carolina Chanticleers and WKU Hilltoppers? 

[Tranquilo]

2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

How many games did Darnold play against Costal Carolina Chanticleers and WKU Hilltoppers? 

I'm sorry but Pac-12 defenses are stout now?

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, Tranquilo said:

I'm sorry but Pac-12 defenses are stout now?

Are you seriously going to argue they played against similar quality teams? 

[Tranquilo]

Just now, Barry McCockinner said:

Are you seriously going to argue they played against similar quality teams? 

First of all Coastal Carolina was a ranked team and Zach Wilson didn't have a bad game. If you're going to pick to unknown teams at least pick one that's actually bad in a game in which Wilson actually struggled.

Second, those defenses Sam faced in that conference aren't great defenses. So if you want to change your comment to "similar quality teams" away from the focus of "defenses," then deflect to your heart's content, but at least understand that those aren't great defenses either.

[Barry McCockinner]

Just now, Tranquilo said:

First of all Coastal Carolina was a ranked team and Zach Wilson didn't have a bad game. If you're going to pick to unknown teams at least pick one that's actually bad in a game in which Wilson actually struggled.

Second, those defenses Sam faced in that conference aren't great defenses. So if you want to change your comment to "similar quality teams" away from the focus of "defenses," then deflect to your heart's content, but at least understand that those aren't great defenses either.

BYU faced a bunch of sh*t teams dude. I'm glad Wilson only had 6 turnovers against them. Darnold faced Alabama his last year of college. Wilson faced North Alabama.

[JetBlue]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree.  Certainly ZW can be better and almost certainly will be better than Sam.  But putting a QB in the position Sam was put in last year just would have meant simply doing less.  Sam seemed to press and made a lot of mistakes when he got frustrated.

Hopefully Wilson will have more patience - or even better, maybe JD will build him an OL that will give him some time and weapons that can get open.

Joe gave him a Pro Bowl LT, signed on of top C/G in FA, also signed a solid somewhat inexperienced RT.  He let Robby go, a mistake, signed Perriman to a prove it contract (who didn't play that bad when healthy, but ultimately it didn't work out.) Drafted one of the most talented receivers in this draft who unfortunately got injured early and basically was playing catch up the rest of the year. (Should have drafted another receiver imo.)   He also drafted another OL who many thought could compete for OG job.    Running backs Perine, Ty Johnson, Josh Adams and Frank Gore was serviceable.   Everyone was expecting a bounce back year from Herndon but he regressed.  

My point in all this?  As much as you want to lay this at the feet of Douglas, the person you really should be blaming GASE!   I'm sorry, but you give me ANY OTHER COACH IN THE LEAGUE with this same team and Sam and the team would have preformed MUCH BETTER.  I have no doubt about that.    That is one of the reasons I am looking forward to Saleh and his staff.    Please do not underestimate just how horrible Gase was; I am talking "generational" and historic levels of sucking! 

[TMAC]

LIke most haters, he concentrates on the past and ignores the present situation.  We know that the last ten years have been an abomination.  We now have new GM, HC, OC and will have a new QB and a lot of new talent.  As long as Woody stays out of the football decisions, this is a fresh start.  What Idzik, Maccagnan, Gase, Bowles and other incompetents did really doesnt matter.

[RVAJet815]

He’s right. And it stings because he’s right. Nothing is changing until the culture changes. All the more reason to hope Saleh and JD finally have this stuff figured out. 

[Tranquilo]

Just now, Barry McCockinner said:

BYU faced a bunch of sh*t teams dude. I'm glad Wilson only had 6 turnovers against them. Darnold faced Alabama his last year of college. Wilson faced North Alabama.

Darnold threw 2 picks vs. Western Michigan. Go look up the defense ranks of each team both Darnold and Wilson faced and come back to me. Darnold didn't face Alabama in his last year.

[RVAJet815]

7 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Are you seriously going to argue they played against similar quality teams? 

The bottom of the pac12 is pretty much Mountain West quality defense, so yeah. If we’re going to play that game, which is stupid...it still doesn’t look all that much different.

[The Crusher]

16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Zach Wilson had 3 INT's and 3 fumbles last season.  In his final year at USC, Darnold had 13 INT's and 11 fumbles.  

 

I was referring to them both being known to throw  off balance, throw on the run and not being traditional drop back passers. They seem to be getting the same sort of accolades from the press heading up to the draft with the exception Wilson is obviously much more accurate. Now run off and punch your “ I hate Sam Darnold” doll until you calm down/ 

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, munchmemory said:

It's not about "being right".  It's about seeing the pattern that has existed for decades and hoping the trend does not continue.  No one can say definitively why this pattern exists/has existed. (Always hiring inept GMs, blindness to QB flaws, bad luck, displeasure of the various gods, etc.).  But the pattern is there.

Hiring bad GM's who draft bad QB's (along with making other  dumb picks) is the top reason.  

People love to assume these same bad GM's have been drafting secretly good QB's who were ruined by the rest of the roster/coaching.  If that was true, Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith would have gone on to success elsewhere.  They didn't, because they sucked.  

And most recently, the same GM who drafted Christian Hackenberg and Bryce Petty somehow nailed it when he took Darnold, but alas, he was ruined by the rest of the mean Jets.  

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

This guy really is a piece of work. sh*t

Fixed.

[Jetsfan80]

30 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

How many games did Darnold play against Costal Carolina Chanticleers and WKU Hilltoppers? 

The PAC-12 makes up for a difference of 10 INT's and 8 fumbles, in your mind?

I don't care about level of competition, because Wilson was also dealing with a weaker supporting cast, and that evidently matters a lot too, otherwise Mac Jones would be going # 2 overall.  Meanwhile, plenty of quality QB prospects have come from less than stellar conferences.  It.  Does.  Not.  Matter.  If it did, Trey Lance wouldn't be a 1st round prospect, either.  What does matter is what kind of prospect Wilson is.  There are almost no comparisons to be made between him and Sam Darnold.  

And now you forced me to defend a prospect I don't like a whole lot.  I prefer Fields.  

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The PAC-12 makes up for a difference of 10 INT's and 8 fumbles, in your mind?

I don't care about level of competition, because Wilson was also dealing with a weaker supporting cast, and that evidently matters a lot too, otherwise Mac Jones would be going # 2 overall.  Meanwhile, plenty of quality QB prospects have come from less than stellar conferences.  It.  Does.  Not.  Matter.  What does matter is what kind of prospect Wilson is.  There are almost no comparisons to be made between him and Sam Darnold.  

And now you forced me to defend a prospect I don't like a whole lot.  I prefer Fields.  

I don't know if it makes up the difference but as someone who doesn't watch much college football the schedule Wilson faced last year is largely unrecognizable and/or noticeably weak compared to the schedule Darnold faced his last year. I mean, I'm laughing at some of these teams. 

It's not Wilsons fault he didn't play better teams but it's something I wonder about as he comes to the NFL.

 

Monday Sep. 7		at Navy MidshipmenNavy-Marine Corps Mem. Stadium, Annapolis, MD	8:00pm ETESPN	W 55-3
Saturday Sep. 12		OFF
Saturday Sep. 19		at Army Black KnightsMichie Stadium, West Point, NY	11:59pm ET	Canceled
Saturday Sep. 26		Troy TrojansLaVell Edwards Stadium, Provo, UT	10:15pm ETESPN	W 48-7
Friday Oct. 2		Louisiana Tech BulldogsLaVell Edwards Stadium, Provo, UT	9:00pm ETESPN2	W 45-14
Saturday Oct. 10		UTSA RoadrunnersLaVell Edwards Stadium, Provo, UT	3:30pm ETESPN2	W 27-20
Friday Oct. 16		at Houston CougarsTDECU Stadium, Houston, TX	9:30pm ETESPN	W 43-26
Saturday Oct. 24		Texas State BobcatsLaVell Edwards Stadium, Provo, UT	10:15pm ETESPN	W 52-14
Saturday Oct. 31		WKU HilltoppersLaVell Edwards Stadium, Provo, UT	10:15pm ETESPN	W 41-10
Friday Nov. 6		at Boise State BroncosAlbertsons Stadium, Boise, ID	9:45pm ETFS1	W 51-17
Saturday Nov. 14		OFF
Saturday Nov. 21		North Alabama LionsLaVell Edwards Stadium, Provo, UT	3:00pm ETBYUtv/ESPN3	W 66-14
Saturday Nov. 28		OFF
Saturday Dec. 5		at Coastal Carolina ChanticleersBrooks Stadium, Conway, SC	5:30pm ETESPNU	L 22-17
Saturday Dec. 12		San Diego State AztecsLaVell Edwards Stadium, Provo, UT	10:00pm ETESPN2	W 28-14
RoofClaim.com Boca Raton Bowl
Tuesday Dec. 22		vs UCF KnightsFAU Stadium, Boca Raton, FL	7:00pm ETESPN	W 49-23

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I don't know if it makes up the difference but as someone who doesn't watch much college football the schedule Wilson faced last year is largely unrecognizable and/or noticeably weak compared to the schedule Darnold faced his last year. I mean, I'm laughing at some of these teams. 

It's not Wilsons fault he didn't play better teams but it's something I wonder about as he comes to the NFL.

 

Monday Sep. 7		at Navy MidshipmenNavy-Marine Corps Mem. Stadium, Annapolis, MD	8:00pm ETESPN	W 55-3
Saturday Sep. 12		OFF
Saturday Sep. 19		at Army Black KnightsMichie Stadium, West Point, NY	11:59pm ET	Canceled
Saturday Sep. 26		Troy TrojansLaVell Edwards Stadium, Provo, UT	10:15pm ETESPN	W 48-7
Friday Oct. 2		Louisiana Tech BulldogsLaVell Edwards Stadium, Provo, UT	9:00pm ETESPN2	W 45-14
Saturday Oct. 10		UTSA RoadrunnersLaVell Edwards Stadium, Provo, UT	3:30pm ETESPN2	W 27-20
Friday Oct. 16		at Houston CougarsTDECU Stadium, Houston, TX	9:30pm ETESPN	W 43-26
Saturday Oct. 24		Texas State BobcatsLaVell Edwards Stadium, Provo, UT	10:15pm ETESPN	W 52-14
Saturday Oct. 31		WKU HilltoppersLaVell Edwards Stadium, Provo, UT	10:15pm ETESPN	W 41-10
Friday Nov. 6		at Boise State BroncosAlbertsons Stadium, Boise, ID	9:45pm ETFS1	W 51-17
Saturday Nov. 14		OFF
Saturday Nov. 21		North Alabama LionsLaVell Edwards Stadium, Provo, UT	3:00pm ETBYUtv/ESPN3	W 66-14
Saturday Nov. 28		OFF
Saturday Dec. 5		at Coastal Carolina ChanticleersBrooks Stadium, Conway, SC	5:30pm ETESPNU	L 22-17
Saturday Dec. 12		San Diego State AztecsLaVell Edwards Stadium, Provo, UT	10:00pm ETESPN2	W 28-14
RoofClaim.com Boca Raton Bowl
Tuesday Dec. 22		vs UCF KnightsFAU Stadium, Boca Raton, FL	7:00pm ETESPN	W 49-23

 

 

Considering we've had a lot of non-P6 prospects who have succeed in the pros, I don't view it as a question mark whatsoever. 

So if people are going to call Darnold and Wilson similar prospects, they at least need to acknowledge that Darnold was highly turnover prone and Wilson was not.  Because clearly Darnold's level of competition didn't seem to help him get better at avoiding turnovers at the next level.  

[Jet_Engine1]

4 hours ago, Butterfield said:

Whats worse, the guy who writes an article that isn’t really wrong, or the guy who tries to belittle the article by saying the writer isn’t good looking.  

What about the Dude, thats Playin' a dude, pretending to be another dude??

 

[Larz]

...so I decided to give him free eyeballs on the biggest jets forum 

[Barry McCockinner]

29 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Considering we've had a lot of non-P6 prospects who have succeed in the pros, I don't view it as a question mark whatsoever. 

So if people are going to call Darnold and Wilson similar prospects, they at least need to acknowledge that Darnold was highly turnover prone and Wilson was not.  Because clearly Darnold's level of competition didn't seem to help him get better at avoiding turnovers at the next level.  

Why would facing better competition result in fewer turnovers? WTF? 

You can view it as not a question mark all you want. I hope it isn't an issue, but it is something I am concerned with. If you have an issue with that please refer to rule 14.

Some guys have no issue stepping up, others do. Examples of those who have doesn't change that. It's easier to win and look good against inferior competition, obviously. For me, it will always be a question of whether guys making the step up can do that. 

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, munchmemory said:

It's not about "being right".  It's about seeing the pattern that has existed for decades and hoping the trend does not continue.  No one can say definitively why this pattern exists/has existed. (Always hiring inept GMs, blindness to QB flaws, bad luck, displeasure of the various gods, etc.).  But the pattern is there.

Which has nothing to do with JD

My example, KC won their 1st SB a year after the Jets.  From 1970 to recently they went to the playoff less often than the Jets and won few playoff games.  

Past history wont make JD draft the wrong guys.  Inept GMs in our past doesnt say JD will be inept.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Why would facing better competition result in fewer turnovers? WTF? 

You can view it as not a question mark all you want. I hope it isn't an issue, but it is something I am concerned with. If you have an issue with that please refer to rule 14.

Some guys have no issue stepping up, others do. Examples of those who have doesn't change that. It's easier to win and look good against inferior competition, obviously. For me, it will always be a question of whether guys making the step up can do that. 

Exactly my point.  Darnold would have been just as turnover prone playing in the Mountain West as he would have been in the PAC-12.  You nailed it!

Wilson may well be a turnover-prone guy in the pros.  But he hasn't shown it yet.  Darnold did, and it didn't turn out well.  So I refuse to buy this narrative that Darnold and Wilson are basically the same guy.  Douglas wouldn't have locked in on Wilson so early and traded Darnold away if they were similar prospects/players.

[southparkcpa]

4 hours ago, munchmemory said:

It's not about "being right".  It's about seeing the pattern that has existed for decades and hoping the trend does not continue.  No one can say definitively why this pattern exists/has existed. (Always hiring inept GMs, blindness to QB flaws, bad luck, displeasure of the various gods, etc.).  But the pattern is there.

I fully am invested in the idea that a "REAL" football man won't work for Woody.  We get rookie HC's and GM's. That's it.

 

Imagine Bill Parcells or his ilk reporting to Chris Johnson.  They would kill themselves first.

[munchmemory]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Which has nothing to do with JD

My example, KC won their 1st SB a year after the Jets.  From 1970 to recently they went to the playoff less often than the Jets and won few playoff games.  

Past history wont make JD draft the wrong guys.  Inept GMs in our past doesnt say JD will be inept.  

Again, it's about seeing the pattern.  Just think about how long this pattern has proliferated.  It's staggering to comprehend.  Until he proves otherwise, JD now resides within this NY Jets pattern.

[FidelioJet]

56 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Joe gave him a Pro Bowl LT, signed on of top C/G in FA, also signed a solid somewhat inexperienced RT.  He let Robby go, a mistake, signed Perriman to a prove it contract (who didn't play that bad when healthy, but ultimately it didn't work out.) Drafted one of the most talented receivers in this draft who unfortunately got injured early and basically was playing catch up the rest of the year. (Should have drafted another receiver imo.)   He also drafted another OL who many thought could compete for OG job.    Running backs Perine, Ty Johnson, Josh Adams and Frank Gore was serviceable.   Everyone was expecting a bounce back year from Herndon but he regressed.  

My point in all this?  As much as you want to lay this at the feet of Douglas, the person you really should be blaming GASE!   I'm sorry, but you give me ANY OTHER COACH IN THE LEAGUE with this same team and Sam and the team would have preformed MUCH BETTER.  I have no doubt about that.    That is one of the reasons I am looking forward to Saleh and his staff.    Please do not underestimate just how horrible Gase was; I am talking "generational" and historic levels of sucking! 

I think this is a lot of wishful thinking.  Yes, Gase was bad.

But the talent was awful.  Just about everyone he signed was a back-up caliber player.  I am sorry but IMO the performance of the team last year was more on the talent than the coach.

Becton did not go to the pro-bow and his rookie year performance is being way overrated by this fan base, Fant was a back-up on one of the worst lines in the league - the two starting guards were pathetic (also back-up talent).  the WR's awful- Perriman a #4 WR was brought in as our #1 - and the RB's well, ew!

The offensive roster JD put on the field last year was, well, offensive.

[Jet Nut]

Just now, munchmemory said:

Again, it's about seeing the pattern.  Just think about how long this pattern has proliferated.  It's staggering to comprehend.  Until he proves otherwise, JD now resides within this NY Jets pattern.

Every major variable is different this time.  The GM hired the HC, one that was the most sought after coach this offseason.  

Nothing wrong with taking a wait and see approach.  Claiming it wont work because of past failures doesnt make sense.

[shawn306]

6 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

I don't  get it. What do you expect? We have been horrible at the QB positions for a lot more years than we were good. Now that we just jettisoned  the latest one, what do you expect these guys to write about.  And as the Mark Schreleth <sp> said, anyone who expects the guy we take with the second pick to fix this mess really is fooling themselves. You don't  nearly go winless just because your QB sucks. 

End Thread

[shawn306]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

The heritage is "dim"

He's not wrong. 

Hopefully, that finally starts to change with the next QB

It doesn't change with the QB. It starts with ownership, the coaches then the players. Very little of which we have had the past 10 years

[munchmemory]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

Every major variable is different this time.  The GM hired the HC, one that was the most sought after coach this offseason.  

Nothing wrong with taking a wait and see approach.  Claiming it wont work because of past failures doesnt make sense.

JN, I'm not claiming that.  Just showing the enormity of the pattern of failure JD must surmount.   Can he do it?  Sure.  Do I believe he will?  I'm not so sure.

[slimjasi]

6 minutes ago, shawn306 said:

It doesn't change with the QB. It starts with ownership, the coaches then the players. Very little of which we have had the past 10 years

Ownership isn't changing, but yes, it takes a village 

[Jet Nut]

31 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

JN, I'm not claiming that.  Just showing the enormity of the pattern of failure JD must surmount.   Can he do it?  Sure.  Do I believe he will?  I'm not so sure.

But that is what youre saying.

The enormity of failure has nothing to do with JD ignoring the past and getting the job done.

It is a long pattern of failure, 10 years is an enormity.  But IMO hes not going to fail because Idzik and Macc were incompetent.  If he fails its because he's incompetent 

[Beerfish]

lol at worrying about what defenses some of these guys face.

Mahommes literally played in a conference where defenses were a travesty of a joke of a sorry state of a nelson muntz ha ha of an underachieving bag of wet fart fail of monumentally epic proportions.