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OT Morgan Moses available via trade


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OL evaluation seems to have the least common consensus from fans of any position.  I don't think I know more than anyone else, but I personally think Fant is probably the most underappreciated player

If JD wanted Moses, I don't think cap would stop him.  We can free up $5M by releasing Alex Lewis, which would fund much of Moses salary.  The major issue to me is fit.  Moses is a big mauling type ma

We're sticking with Fant.  I think JD and the staff like him but this will be a big year for him.    Jets' George Fant Proves He Belongs as NFL Starter in 2020 Took

He's good and hasn't missed a single start since 2015. Depends on what WFT wants in return. George Fant would carry a $6M dead money hit if he's cut, but Moses is much better than him and only a couple of years older.

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Is Moses a scheme fit for zone blocking.  I think of him as more of a mauler type, lacking the speed/athleticsm that would be needed in a zone scheme.

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Interesting because WFT isn't one of the teams that's in dire cap trouble.  

NO, CHI and ATL can't sign their rookies without doing some cap work.  PHI, GB and TEN are also a little tight but to a lesser extent.

 

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1 hour ago, BroadwayRay said:

He's good and hasn't missed a single start since 2015. Depends on what WFT wants in return. George Fant would carry a $6M dead money hit if he's cut, but Moses is much better than him and only a couple of years older.

WE have $25M cap remaining. 3rd most in the league. Why not both??

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6 minutes ago, jgb said:

WE have $25M cap remaining. 3rd most in the league. Why not both??

because... 

Pumped Up Sport GIF by Atlanta Falcons

 

lol  jokes

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14 minutes ago, jgb said:

WE have $25M cap remaining. 3rd most in the league. Why not both??

If they have their eye on a CB (Nelson or Sherman), that and the rookie salaries will shrink the cap space to around $8 million.  Of course there are moves to be made to free up money (Lewis, GVR, Crowder) if needed.

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4 minutes ago, AFJF said:

If they have their eye on a CB (Nelson or Sherman), that and the rookie salaries will shrink the cap space to around $8 million.  Of course there are moves to be made to free up money (Lewis, GVR, Crowder) if needed.

Yeah. Every team has roughly the same amount they need to free to rookie signings. Don't expect us to change too much from #3 on rookie signings alone. Maybe drop a place or two because we have 2 first rounders to sign.

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35 minutes ago, jgb said:

WE have $25M cap remaining. 3rd most in the league. Why not both??

Rookie deals and players are going to eat that number up

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9 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Rookie deals and players are going to eat that number up

See above.

Yeah. Every team has roughly the same amount they need to free to rookie signings. Don't expect us to change too much from #3 on rookie signings alone. Maybe drop a place or two because we have 2 first rounders to sign.

I have since looked it up. Overthecap estimates we will be #8 in cap space after signing 52 players.

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56 minutes ago, AFJF said:

If they have their eye on a CB (Nelson or Sherman), that and the rookie salaries will shrink the cap space to around $8 million.  Of course there are moves to be made to free up money (Lewis, GVR, Crowder) if needed.

All the rookies combined  will likely cost between $8-9 million in cap space not actual cash expenditure. So we’ll end up at like $15 million in surplus. 

Basically the only rookies that count against the cap are those that make more than the bottom players on the roster. The cut off is at Michael Carter’s fourth round salary for the current roster. The other rookies don’t really count against the cap until roster cuts.

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Just now, kdels62 said:

All the rookies combined  will likely cost between $8-9 million in cap space not actual cash expenditure. So we’ll end up at like $15 million in surplus. 

Basically the only rookies that count against the cap are those that make more than the bottom players on the roster. The cut off is at Michael Carter’s fourth round salary for the current roster. The other rookies don’t really count against the cap until roster cuts.

That only applies during the offseason with the top 51 rules in place.  Once we get to the regular season, all cap hits will be counted.  53  on the active roster, any players on IR, practice squad.  It all counts. 

Per Spotrac:  If the entire draft class makes the final active roster, then they will count for about $16mil against the cap.  In the offseason, with top 51 rule in place, will count for about $12M.

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1 hour ago, AFJF said:

If they have their eye on a CB (Nelson or Sherman), that and the rookie salaries will shrink the cap space to around $8 million.  Of course there are moves to be made to free up money (Lewis, GVR, Crowder) if needed.

Per over the cap, the cap space needed to sign our rookies is $9.5m. That takes us down to $15m. 

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16 minutes ago, Lith said:

That only applies during the offseason with the top 51 rules in place.  Once we get to the regular season, all cap hits will be counted.  53  on the active roster, any players on IR, practice squad.  It all counts. 

Per Spotrac:  If the entire draft class makes the final active roster, then they will count for about $16mil against the cap.  In the offseason, with top 51 rule in place, will count for about $12M.

Yeah but they will have cut the note expensive players in order to keep the rookies in that case. So while the total amount of rookie salary cap usage increases, the actual cap hit will likely go down.

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13 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Per over the cap, the cap space needed to sign our rookies is $9.5m. That takes us down to $15m. 

Yeah. Every team has roughly the same amount they need to free to rookie signings. Don't expect us to change too much from #3 on rookie signings alone. Maybe drop a place or two because we have 2 first rounders to sign.

I have since looked it up. Overthecap estimates we will be #8 in cap space after signing 52 players.

There is no reason why we can't take on $7.5M, if we want to.

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20 minutes ago, Lith said:

That only applies during the offseason with the top 51 rules in place.  Once we get to the regular season, all cap hits will be counted.  53  on the active roster, any players on IR, practice squad.  It all counts. 

Per Spotrac:  If the entire draft class makes the final active roster, then they will count for about $16mil against the cap.  In the offseason, with top 51 rule in place, will count for about $12M.

Where on their website are you seeing that? I normally used overthecap because it's so user friendly. Spotrac isa bit tougher to navigate.

The Top 51 is a good gauge for the 53 man roster though. Maybe a good estimate is top 51 an add another $1.5M or so for spot 52 and 53.

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If he can play G I'd consider it.  Otherwise I'm pretty happy with Fant.

The 2nd half of last season , after the OL had a chance to play together,  both of the T's played pretty well.

The IOL was still horrible.  They hopefully have fixed the left side, RG is still a mystery.   

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28 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Where on their website are you seeing that? I normally used overthecap because it's so user friendly. Spotrac isa bit tougher to navigate.

The Top 51 is a good gauge for the 53 man roster though. Maybe a good estimate is top 51 an add another $1.5M or so for spot 52 and 53.

Both sites agree that the rookie pool is about $16M for the Jets.  OTC is estimating the impact of cutting veterans who are being replaced by the rookies.  IIf the 10 rookies cost $16M, and we cut 10 vets at about $660K each, then the net cost of the draft class will be about $9M.

Following is table from Spotrac

Link to Jets salary cap page.  Scroll down to see projected rookie pool.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/cap/

2021 Projected Draft Pool Cap          
Estimated cap dollars necessary to sign upcoming draft picks (not included in the cap figure yet)
         
Player Pos Base Bonus Total Cap Hit Top 51 Hit
Zach Wilson Round 1, Pick #2 QB $660,000 $5,731,033 $6,391,033 $6,391,033
Alijah Vera-Tucker Round 1, Pick #14 G $660,000 $2,228,187 $2,888,187 $2,888,187
Elijah Moore Round 2, Pick #34 WR $660,000 $965,532 $1,625,532 $1,625,532
Michael Carter Round 4, Pick #107 RB $660,000 $201,842 $861,842 $861,842
Jamien Sherwood Round 5, Pick #146 S $660,000 $88,716 $748,716 $88,716
Michael Carter Round 5, Pick #154 CB $660,000 $82,232 $742,232 $82,232
Jason Pinnock Round 5, Pick #175 CB $660,000 $67,613 $727,613 $67,613
Hamsah Nasirildeen Round 6, Pick #186 S $660,000 $51,962 $711,962 $51,962
Brandin Echols Round 6, Pick #200 CB $660,000 $43,546 $703,546 $43,546
Jonathan Marshall Round 6, Pick #207 DT $660,000 $42,226 $702,226 $42,226
Projected Draft Pool:       $16,102,889 $12,142,889
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2 hours ago, jgb said:

See above.

Yeah. Every team has roughly the same amount they need to free to rookie signings. Don't expect us to change too much from #3 on rookie signings alone. Maybe drop a place or two because we have 2 first rounders to sign.

I have since looked it up. Overthecap estimates we will be #8 in cap space after signing 52 players.

My thinking is the key will be any FAs that come loose that can help us.  Hopefully we find help 

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JD seems to be on a slow, steady march to upgrade the OLine in a cost-effective way.  I think his early splurge in FA on guys like Fant, McGovern, GVR, etc. was by necessity and he has those guys all on the exact timeline he wants.  Last year he got the LT in Becton, this year a stud OG prospect in AVT.  I think next year he finds his young replacement at C, RT or both.  I wouldn't be surprised if there's a RT signed in FA and then the Jets draft a Center as JD continues his upgrade path from Left to Right.

 

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2 hours ago, kdels62 said:

All the rookies combined  will likely cost between $8-9 million in cap space not actual cash expenditure. So we’ll end up at like $15 million in surplus. 

Basically the only rookies that count against the cap are those that make more than the bottom players on the roster. The cut off is at Michael Carter’s fourth round salary for the current roster. The other rookies don’t really count against the cap until roster cuts.

Right, and what would one of the top corners on the marker cost?

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2 hours ago, GreenFish said:

Per over the cap, the cap space needed to sign our rookies is $9.5m. That takes us down to $15m. 

And if they add a top FA corner?

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6 hours ago, jgb said:

WE have $25M cap remaining. 3rd most in the league. Why not both??

 

5 hours ago, Stark said:

because... 

Pumped Up Sport GIF by Atlanta Falcons

 

lol  jokes

 

5 hours ago, jgb said:

I tried and want to get the joke but I don't lol

we're trading for Julio after June 1 cap relief date for Falcons. we need the $$$ for Julio

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5 hours ago, Stark said:

 

 

we're trading for Julio after June 1 cap relief date for Falcons. we need the $$$ for Julio

Ah, ok

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Its an interesting move from Washington's part since Moses was the 6th best RT in the league last year, and by all accounts is a solid veteran presence on the team.  They did draft Cosmi to play RT so thats why he is expendable.

One of the Jets writers ( guys who actually analyze not Cimini) said Moses is a good fit for zone systems. 

Personally I like Fant and think he will be excellent in this system, but if could play guard, then thats something to think about, im just not sure thats what he wants.  Hes 30 and has 2 years left on his contract at $7.5 each year, but 2022 has no guaranteed money.

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11 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

JD seems to be on a slow, steady march to upgrade the OLine in a cost-effective way.  I think his early splurge in FA on guys like Fant, McGovern, GVR, etc. was by necessity and he has those guys all on the exact timeline he wants.  Last year he got the LT in Becton, this year a stud OG prospect in AVT.  I think next year he finds his young replacement at C, RT or both.  I wouldn't be surprised if there's a RT signed in FA and then the Jets draft a Center as JD continues his upgrade path from Left to Right.

 

Agree with a lot of this, particularly the idea that he's at least got his base in place to set up a pipeline of rookies replacing older guys, but I think there's a lot of misjudgment on how Douglas sees his returning OL players.

I don't see Douglas in any rush to part with Fant. He had the opportunity to do so in March but declined. His spot is totally safe, and I don't see him trading a draft pick for a 30 yr old RT who isn't as versatile as Fant as the #2 LT.

McGovern is on a much hotter seat, but think he gets a clean slate this year based on new coaching, AVT to his left now, new QB, new scheme that should theoretically require him to hold his blocks for less time, and not insignificantly, this summer he'll get a full preseason of work in. Unless he has a repeat of 2020, I don't see JD in any particular rush to replace him either. If he sucks this season, then he's done here and Feeney will be penciled in at center heading into the '22 draft: a viable placeholder so at least they aren't forced to reach in round 1.

As far as the best of the rest at RG, I think one of them will be more than adequate, but after last season I can sympathize with the fan base's pessimism regarding any/all of them. Too early to tell for RT, but Douglas will certainly draft another iOL on or by day 2 next year. Unless he sees value he feels he just can't pass on - like with AVT this spring - honestly I don't think he'll be in any rush to use his two 1st rounders on the OL.

Anyway, those future rookies won't be guaranteed to start over the '21 starter, and certainly not because of any '20 season letdowns. Kinda the purpose of having a pipeline is that those drafted later aren't deemed worthless if they didn't see the field as rookies, and since there's a starter (or two) the team can go with, rawer rookies can take a season under pro coaching before having to show they're worth a damn. Whether it's someone like Clark now, or Slauson a decade ago, that's the plan. Of course merely ;drafting them later than days 1-2 ;doesn't mean they'll be late bloomers; most will never prove useful at all. 

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13 hours ago, jgb said:

Yeah. Every team has roughly the same amount they need to free to rookie signings. Don't expect us to change too much from #3 on rookie signings alone. Maybe drop a place or two because we have 2 first rounders to sign.

I have since looked it up. Overthecap estimates we will be #8 in cap space after signing 52 players.

There is no reason why we can't take on $7.5M, if we want to.

I love OTC, but their estimate appears to have been projected before the Jets traded up for AVT. Take a look at @Lith's post above. The pool is expected to be over $12M with that trade, or about $2.5M more than OTC suggested. 

That leaves the remaining cap space in the $12M range. I really cannot envision Joe Douglas trading away future draft assets for a 30-year-old OT that would drop that cap number down to $4.5M or so. That's probably about the bare minimum of cap space he'd be looking to carry into the season to allow himself to maneuver before the trade deadline. That aside, trading future rookies for 30-somethings is the polar opposite of how Joe Douglas appears to be looking to build this team. 

I can certainly appreciate the fact that you're looking to spend just to spend and throw money at the team's problems, but that argument would hold a lot more water if cap space didn't carry over from one year to the next. They're at least okay at RT with Fant there. This is a foundational year where we hopefully see the team move from very bad to mediocre. Rookie coaching staff working with the team for the first time. I'd much prefer to roll that cap space forward when the whole organization has a clearer picture of what they have and what they need, and to spend that money trying to get from mediocre to good, rather than burning it this year along with a 2022 draft pick. 

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