The Way Forward

[FidelioJet]

This thread is not meant to point fingers at or cast blame on anyone, it's not for "I told you so's"- there are plenty threads for that...We are where we are now

Let's look at the best way forward...

With the #1 overall pick likely, 5 picks in the top 63 and a massive amount of available cap space it's possible the right GM can turn this around.

Here are my thoughts...

• You MUST put ZW on the shelf for the rest of the season.
• Sign the best veteran QB you can find.  Someone that understands the situation the Jets are in and willing to take the lumps.  If that's Cam Newton than go get him.
• Joe Douglas should be let go immediately and unfortunatley Hymie Elthai can take the reigns in the short term.  The new GM search starts now.
• Chris Johnson needs to be placed as far away from this team as possible (say what you want about Woody but the team was never this bad under his control)
• Trade the #1 overall pick for the best deal on the table.  This team needs so much that you'll have to pass on an elite level prospect if one's there.
• Draft should focus on OL.  You can't do anything until you have an OL.  Once you feel like you have something there, then move on to other positions.
• FA's, you have to go and spend, again on OL and bringing in over priced vets (hate to do it) but the team has to get to respectability. We're just so far away from even being competitive that you have to hold your nose to pay big for simply competent level talent
• Let the new GM decide what to do with Saleh and the rest of the CS
• ZW decision is a tough one.  Two options...
  • Shelve him this year and possibly more - let him practice and learn.  Regardless of how he looks in practice he should not start playing until you have a line that can protect him and receivers that can catch.  In fact I wouldn't even dress him on game days.  He shouldn't even go in due to injury with this roster.
  • Trade him while you can still get a #1 for him (likely high 1) and run with vets until you've built a competent team and THEN and only THEN go out and draft one.

What do you guys think?

 

 

 

 

[billo83]

JD is not going to be fired during the season. When has J&J fired anyone in the FO in season? 

[mfmartin]

None of this should happen


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[Larz]

Adopt the cardinals until the Jets win a playoff game lol

[joewilly12]

ZW has 17 games if he survives to show something positive if we get nothing unfortunately we have to find another QB in 2022 

Until we get it right. 

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, billo83 said:

JD is not going to be fired during the season. When has J&J fired anyone in the FO in season? 

For sure.  I don't think this is what's going to happen.  But my view, if I were ownership at this point this is the way I would move foward.

[JustInFudge]

You cant bench Zach.  You cant trade him.  And nobody is losing their job, it's week 3.  You have to stick to the plan and let all these rookies work through the adversity and hope it's good for them long term.  Everyone knew this was going to be ugly, take it on the chin and dont hit the panic button 

All you can do is hope they get better as the season goes on and hope this next offseason with all that money and all those picks, they really move the needle talent wise and I think Robert Saleh needs to really look hard at his staff and assess if he truly has the best possible coaches he can find to help develop Zach Wilson.  

[Matt39]

Benching the QB to play Mike White …hell even Jet Nut may have a problem with that.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Nice write up. Terrible plan. 

[T0mShane]

I don’t think they’ll do any of that, but I think what is likely to happen at some point is that Wilson twists an ankle and they give him a month on IR—like they used to do with Darnold—and they’ll bring Nick Foles in at some point to try and steal a couple of wins. 
 

The elephant in the room is that Zack has some very loud helicopter parents who are eventually going to make some noise if and when their darling baby boy keeps getting bounced off the turf and booed by the home crowd. If the Jets end up with the first overall pick, I don’t think it’s crazy to suggest that Wilson’s people will push for a trade, and that Douglas will consider it. The 2022 QB class looks gross right now. Would the Texans offer the Jets the third or fourth overall for Zack Wilson? The Steelers, Falcons, Giants, Panthers, and possibly the Seahawks will all need a QB, and (if things keep going south), Team Wilson would be smart to exfiltrate Zack out of Florham Park as soon as humanly possible.

[billo83]

9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

For sure.  I don't think this is what's going to happen.  But my view, if I were ownership at this point this is the way I would move foward.

JD certainly can certainl be blamed for a lot of what is going on, but I think some of what you mentioned should really should be placed on Saleh. The Mims mess falls on the coaching staff, as well as the terrible game planning tha has been put in place. Not having a verteren QB at worst should be on both of them. This certainly was the HC decision IMO. 

My biggeset complain with JD is the OL which you would think he would have some good knowledge on.

[JazzyJet]

26 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

With the #1 overall pick likely, 5 picks in the top 63 and a massive amount of available cap space it's possible the right GM can turn this around.

oh my goodness, 

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I don’t think they’ll do any of that, but I think what is likely to happen at some point is that Wilson twists an ankle and they give him a month on IR—like they used to do with Darnold—and they’ll bring Nick Foles in at some point to try and steal a couple of wins. 
 

The elephant in the room is that Zack has some very loud helicopter parents who are eventually going to make some noise if and when their darling baby boy keeps getting bounced off the turf and booed by the home crowd. If the Jets end up with the first overall pick, I don’t think it’s crazy to suggest that Wilson’s people will push for a trade, and that Douglas will consider it. The 2022 QB class looks gross right now. Would the Texans offer the Jets the third or fourth overall for Zack Wilson? The Steelers, Falcons, Giants, Panthers, and possibly the Seahawks will all need a QB, and (if things keep going south), Team Wilson would be smart to exfiltrate Zack out of Florham Park as soon as humanly possible.

First, I don't think anything I wrote would happen.  JD isn't going anywhere, but he shouldn't be the one running things in this all too important off-season..  

I think you're right on what will happen with Zach - a groin injury seems about right.  Seems to be thee goto with Crowder.

As for his his parents, I think they were already concerned with him going to the Jets in the first place and their biggest fears are being realized.   They are only going to be quiet for so long.  

This is the type of thing the NFL really doesn't want and might get involved to make sure a deal happens sooner than later.  But ZW isn't going anywhere this season.

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, billo83 said:

JD certainly can certainl be blamed for a lot of what is going on, but I think some of what you mentioned should really should be placed on Saleh. The Mims mess falls on the coaching staff, as well as the terrible game planning tha has been put in place. Not having a verteren QB at worst should be on both of them. This certainly was the HC decision IMO. 

My biggeset complain with JD is the OL which you would think he would have some good knowledge on.

This isn't about blame here.  Just how to manage this team going forward.  My point is, I wouldn't trust JD to manage such an important off-season. 

[Ex-Rex]

27 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

• ZW decision is a tough one.  Two options...
  • Shelve him this year and possibly more - let him practice and learn.  Regardless of how he looks in practice he should not start playing until you have a line that can protect him and receivers that can catch.  In fact I wouldn't even dress him on game days.  He shouldn't even go in due to injury with this roster.
  • Trade him while you can still get a #1 for him (likely high 1) and run with vets until you've built a competent team and THEN and only THEN go out and draft one.

What do you guys think?

I think you outcha mind. The Jets can protect ZW by : shorter passes, slants, hooks, quick outs and throws to the TE and RB's. Moving the pocket a little bit and really sticking to running the football. Even if success doesn't come in the first quarter, you can wear a team down and play action works ONLY when you run the ball consistently. I think LeFleur is trying too hard to show he is a "pass game guru" when it seems he is dialing up only downfield and sideline throws. Get more creative or be the first on the firing line.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

Joe Douglas will be here until at LEAST the end of the 2022 season, and likely the 2023 season. 

[Bronx]

Coming from a ZW aficionado, impressive but not realistic. 

[billo83]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

This isn't about blame here.  Just how to manage this team going forward.  My point is, I wouldn't trust JD to manage such an important off-season. 

Well that is a what will happen. I doubt JD gets fired until his contract is up. Lets see what things look like by end of season. A lot of this will be deterrmined by how Saleh weathers the storm

[Dcat]

What is the chain of succession after Woody?  Leon Hess made sure there would be a sale and this disease wouldn't stay in the family. Smart man in that respect.  I wonder what the Johnson ownership has planned. I'd like to tell my grandson that "maybe there's a chance" one day.  Because this team will be a bottom feeder until the Johnsons are gone. 

[ChuckkieB]

Seriously folks, this is friggin exhausting.  We have been stuck in in the bad GM, bad HC, bad OC, DC wrong players cycle for DECADES!  Every few years we change the names on and off the field, but the results are the same - TERRIBLE.  The common denominator over the last 20 years hase been the Johnsons.  This team will never win as long as they're in control.  At this point, we would all be happy with just being competitive and not the laughing stock of the league.. This team has not been competitive for THREE ******* YEARS!!! THREE!!!!!

Again, this is exhausting.

[Warfish]

33 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This thread is not meant to point fingers at or cast blame on anyone, it's not for "I told you so's"- there are plenty threads for that...We are where we are now

Let's look at the best way forward...

With the #1 overall pick likely, 5 picks in the top 63 and a massive amount of available cap space it's possible the right GM can turn this around.

Here are my thoughts...What do you guys think?

Ok.

33 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

• You MUST put ZW on the shelf for the rest of the season.
• Sign the best veteran QB you can find.  Someone that understands the situation the Jets are in and willing to take the lumps.  If that's Cam Newton than go get him.

There is no chance either of these things will happen.  0%.

33 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

• Joe Douglas should be let go immediately and unfortunatley Hymie Elthai can take the reigns in the short term.  The new GM search starts now.

There is no chance this will happen.

33 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

• Chris Johnson needs to be placed as far away from this team as possible (say what you want about Woody but the team was never this bad under his control)

There is no chance this will happen.

33 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

• Trade the #1 overall pick for the best deal on the table.  This team needs so much that you'll have to pass on an elite level prospect if one's there.

Trading away a (presumably high, possibly #1 overall) pick for a boat of picks is generally something I'm open minded to considering.

33 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

• Draft should focus on OL.  You can't do anything until you have an OL.  Once you feel like you have something there, then move on to other positions.

My sentiment for literally years.  I agree.

33 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

• FA's, you have to go and spend, again on OL and bringing in over priced vets (hate to do it) but the team has to get to respectability. We're just so far away from even being competitive that you have to hold your nose to pay big for simply competent level talent

As always, depends on the FA.  We've paid guys, they've rarely been worth it.  Overpriced vets rarely are.

33 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

• Let the new GM decide what to do with Saleh and the rest of the CS

There is no chance JD will be fired, and there is less chance that Saleh and his staff will be fired.

33 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

• ZW decision is a tough one.  Two options...
  • Shelve him this year and possibly more - let him practice and learn.  Regardless of how he looks in practice he should not start playing until you have a line that can protect him and receivers that can catch.  In fact I wouldn't even dress him on game days.  He shouldn't even go in due to injury with this roster.
  • Trade him while you can still get a #1 for him (likely high 1) and run with vets until you've built a competent team and THEN and only THEN go out and draft one.

Pure distilled fantasy.  

You may as well accept you're not going to see Cam f'ing Newton leading the Jets this year.

Try and live in the real world.

[billo83]

16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I don’t think they’ll do any of that, but I think what is likely to happen at some point is that Wilson twists an ankle and they give him a month on IR—like they used to do with Darnold—and they’ll bring Nick Foles in at some point to try and steal a couple of wins. 
 

The elephant in the room is that Zack has some very loud helicopter parents who are eventually going to make some noise if and when their darling baby boy keeps getting bounced off the turf and booed by the home crowd. If the Jets end up with the first overall pick, I don’t think it’s crazy to suggest that Wilson’s people will push for a trade, and that Douglas will consider it. The 2022 QB class looks gross right now. Would the Texans offer the Jets the third or fourth overall for Zack Wilson? The Steelers, Falcons, Giants, Panthers, and possibly the Seahawks will all need a QB, and (if things keep going south), Team Wilson would be smart to exfiltrate Zack out of Florham Park as soon as humanly possible.

WTF? Why would JD trade Zach for a worse prospect - because his mommy is going to vent on social media? LOL, if he did that, not only would he be fired - he wouldn't get an NFL job again.

[Bronx]

1 hour ago, ChuckkieB said:

Seriously folks, this is friggin exhausting.  We have been stuck in in the bad GM, bad HC, bad OC, DC wrong players cycle for DECADES!  Every few years we change the names on and off the field, but the results are the same - TERRIBLE.  The common denominator over the last 20 years hase been the Johnsons.  This team will never win as long as they're in control.  At this point, we would all be happy with just being competitive and not the laughing stock of the league.. This team has not been competitive for THREE ******* YEARS!!! THREE!!!!!

Again, this is exhausting.

Seriously though, we all supported Saleh's hiring and many folks were excited about ZW.  J & J are horrible owners; however, both Tossed Salad and Zachy are great speakers who convinced many folks including J & J.  

[jago]

hire a president of football operations?
JD can still be "GM" just negotiating trades and deals.
the new prez runs personnel and scouting.
now who that could be i haven't a clue.

[Rob Moore]

I often times will reluctantly read the board after losses.  I kind of read it like a kid watching a horror movie, eyes half closed peeking through hands.

The type of insanity I’ve been reading the last weeks has reached new levels.  The insanity angers me seeing fellowj Jets fans throwing out asinine ideas.

But it also makes me feel so much better about myself.  I don’t mean to single out this thread to call out the craziness, but it was a good candidate.

[Jethead]

34 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

You cant bench Zach.  You cant trade him.  And nobody is losing their job, it's week 3.  You have to stick to the plan and let all these rookies work through the adversity and hope it's good for them long term.  Everyone knew this was going to be ugly, take it on the chin and dont hit the panic button 

All you can do is hope they get better as the season goes on and hope this next offseason with all that money and all those picks, they really move the needle talent wise and I think Robert Saleh needs to really look hard at his staff and assess if he truly has the best possible coaches he can find to help develop Zach Wilson.  

That's why they gave him a six year deal. 

[FidelioJet]

9 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

I think you outcha mind. The Jets can protect ZW by : shorter passes, slants, hooks, quick outs and throws to the TE and RB's. Moving the pocket a little bit and really sticking to running the football. Even if success doesn't come in the first quarter, you can wear a team down and play action works ONLY when you run the ball consistently. I think LeFleur is trying too hard to show he is a "pass game guru" when it seems he is dialing up only downfield and sideline throws. Get more creative or be the first on the firing line.

Honestly....The solution isn't a short passing game.  It's a simplistic view.  

The short passing game only work when you have CB's and LB's backed up to protect against the bigger plays.  Much like the running game, the short passing game is the same.  

Defenses are going to stack the box to protect against the short passing and running games until the Jets can start beating them with chunk plays.  

It's not like the Jets are getting blitzed either where screen passes will work.  They are mostly getting beat upfront with 4 man rushes.  

When someone does come free our WR's are dropping far too many balls.  

It's an absolute mess that's been getting worse Week over Week.  You guys want to keep pretending there's some magic bullet the OC can pull out that will solve all of our problems - I hope you're right..

But I think it's far more complicated and this team is far worse off than that.

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, Rob Moore said:

I often times will reluctantly read the board after losses.  I kind of read it like a kid watching a horror movie, eyes half closed peeking through hands.

The type of insanity I’ve been reading the last weeks has reached new levels.  The insanity angers me seeing fellowj Jets fans throwing out asinine ideas.

But it also makes me feel so much better about myself.  I don’t mean to single out this thread to call out the craziness, but it was a good candidate.

 

I love the "I am better than you" posters.  You're my favorite type. 

Come on the board to tell others how wonderful of a person you.

Good for you.  

 

[ScarletKnight89]

The idea that ZW is going to be benched for the rest of the season is crazy lol. They aren't doing that. 

I agree that the team was so much better when Woody was in charge. He's not a great owner, but Chris Johnson has been terrible. He should be kept as far away as possible. The crazy thing is there are beat writers telling us that Chris is doing the right thing and the organization was lost under Woody. What a joke.

If they get the number 1 overall pick they should either trade it to a team that is looking to take a QB or take the best non QB there. Maybe this next draft will be one where there is a big time pass rusher like Kayvon Thibodeux at the top and the Jets can turn things around similar to the way the Browns did when they drafted Garrett and Baker back to back. 

[T0mShane]

20 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

First, I don't think anything I wrote would happen.  JD isn't going anywhere, but he shouldn't be the one running things in this all too important off-season..  

I think you're right on what will happen with Zach - a groin injury seems about right.  Seems to be thee goto with Crowder.

As for his his parents, I think they were already concerned with him going to the Jets in the first place and their biggest fears are being realized.   They are only going to be quiet for so long.  

This is the type of thing the NFL really doesn't want and might get involved to make sure a deal happens sooner than later.  But ZW isn't going anywhere this season.

Here’s a hypothetical that gets Wilson out of here this season: Let’s say Deshaun Watson really looks to be on a path to avoiding prosecution for his many issues, and Goodell gives the wink-wink to teams that he’s only going to hand down the six-games-appealed-to-four Roethlisberger Plan. The Texans call up Douglas at the trade deadline and offers Watson straight up for Wilson. Does Douglas take that deal? 

[peekskill68]

The D has not been awful even after all the injuries.  It has been able to keep us in games.  The O needs an intervention stat.  We are watching Wilson turn into David Carr in real time...

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

The idea that ZW is going to be benched for the rest of the season is crazy lol. They aren't doing that. 

I agree that the team was so much better when Woody was in charge. He's not a great owner, but Chris Johnson has been terrible. He should be kept as far away as possible. The crazy thing is there are beat writers telling us that Chris is doing the right thing and the organization was lost under Woody. What a joke.

If they get the number 1 overall pick they should either trade it to a team that is looking to take a QB or take the best non QB there. Maybe this next draft will be one where there is a big time pass rusher like Kayvon Thibodeux at the top and the Jets can turn things around similar to the way the Browns did when they drafted Garrett and Baker back to back. 

if ZW doesn't get actually hurt soon, you will see a phantom one.  Much like Darnold's foot injury in his rookie year.

I wouldn't be surprised if it happens this week during practice, but he'll more than likely get another week or two before this happens.  Things are not going to get better.

I agree that it won't be for the season, but giving him a 3 week break is certainly in the realm of possibility.

[Albaniajet]

[billo83]

10 minutes ago, Rob Moore said:

I often times will reluctantly read the board after losses.  I kind of read it like a kid watching a horror movie, eyes half closed peeking through hands.

The type of insanity I’ve been reading the last weeks has reached new levels.  The insanity angers me seeing fellowj Jets fans throwing out asinine ideas.

But it also makes me feel so much better about myself.  I don’t mean to single out this thread to call out the craziness, but it was a good candidate.

Indeed. I understand the frustration, but anyone not expecting a disaster out of the gate was fooling themselves. Lets see where they are at end of the season. But no one has the patience for that.

 

 

[JTJet]

ZW is not getting shelved for the season lol. Get out with that nonsense. It will literally NEVER happen.