Jameson Williams vs. Every other elite Alabama WR prospect

[Sammybighead]

Is it weird that I prefer burks in this offense? Someone tell me I'm being crazy. 

One thing with williams is he seems to be a body catcher. That generally scares me...

[Greenseed4]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Asking you to shut up in draft threads would be like asking Einstein or Hawking to shut up during a discussion of the origins of the Universe just because they know more than most/all the people in the room.  I will not stand for that.  

[Greenseed4]

3 hours ago, Sammybighead said:

Is it weird that I prefer burks in this offense? Someone tell me I'm being crazy. 

One thing with williams is he seems to be a body catcher. That generally scares me...

You’re not crazy, Burks is WR1

[Greenseed4]

5 hours ago, WhartonJet said:

This is funny to me.  Jameson Williams' year at Alabama reminds me so much of Cee Dee Lamb's college tape.  Elite playmakers who are too fast & talented for the competition they are playing.  I don't know why you harp on a lack of route tree for Jameson when he is literally faster than any player on the field in the SEC.  Cee Dee Lamb has become an elite route runner in the NFL (and I grant was much a more polished route runner in college), but why hold this against Jameson?  The difference between the 2 is that Jameson las literal track speed and showed this year that he can play extremely fast too.  I will take my chances on that guy.

 

4 hours ago, Paradis said:

 

 

Alright listen, we're both Jet fans and I'm with you. I want more more talent at WR as well. Williams will probably blow the top off the defense... But when the DC has the safeties playing high/deep on a predictable 3rd and 8 inside the 20 -- your #4 pick at WR is effectively taken out of the game. The fact that you see similarities between him and Lamb speaks volumes about where you're coming from. I don't mean that to be rude or condescending -- but they're not the same, at all. Like dramatically so. The things that Williams struggles with IMO were the things Lamb was good at lol... @derp and @Chrebetfan80 are both huge Williams fans, so i'll let them offer another angle on this -- but you can go on twitter and follow my thread on him. I broke down games. He is electric, and there's promise in his development -- totally -- but number 4 is insane. He's not even WR1 (imo)... Burks, Wilson, London, i have all 3 ahead of him atm,... 

Tantalizing playmaking ability, but the Williams evaluation is no where no as straight forward as youre suggestion. 

 

3 hours ago, derp said:

To be clear my position is and has been that he’s going to be the first WR drafted and he will go in the top ten but his profile is risky, especially as a top ten pick.

I think he’s pretty unique relative to the other fast guys who have gone high - but still risky.

I can’t tell if Jameson is a body catcher by nature or if his routes dictate that (running past the defense, under the ball, creates a basket catch situation). Going back to the tape, he actually does resemble CeeDee Lamb in stature a little; but you don’t see a lot of contested traffic catches, or ladder climbing like you do with Lamb.  But then, you see him blowing up dudes on STs. And I mean, BLOWING them up… so apparently there’s not a fear of contact.   Maybe it’s just scheming.  He’s so f***ing fast, maybe coaches just had him running 9’s and skinny posts because that opened up their offense. 

There’s nothing wrong with drafting a sober, taller Ruggs.  But the idea that speed alone will make the team better is how you end up with a John Ross.
 I’d personally like to see more action over the middle; some traffic catches that turn into YAC (like you see with Lamb, and Burks), but not seeing it in college tape doesn’t mean it’s not possible. 

Personally, I think if Burks can run low 4.5’s or better, he’s the play.  Big Slot, like CeeDee (or Micheal Thomas, “Mr. Slant Boy”), let Elijah run the ‘Z’ where he’s most effective, and Corey drop passes from the ‘X’.  And let the big boys do some run blocking to spring Carter. 

Add in a physical TE or two (Njoku, and McBride) and some beef on the OL, and we have a bully offense that NOBODY wants to play.  

[Paradis]

3 hours ago, PLO said:

Are you the guy who would take Linderbaum at 4 overall? Or do I have that wrong? 

Eh, that’s probably me. I’m fine spending a high pick on him. At 4… with another pick on the top 10 it’s unlikely we’ll have to use the 4 but I really don’t care what it costs. No one will fuss over that in a couple years where we selected the next Mangold 

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Asking you to shut up in draft threads would be like asking Einstein or Hawking to shut up during a discussion of the origins of the Universe just because they know more than most/all the people in the room.  I will not stand for that.  

Lol. I’m flattered. But hawking is high bar. 

[Jet_Engine1]

5 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

 

1 choice forgives decades of mistakes?

 

Geez. Talk to my wife about that sh*t. You're very forgiving.

[Barton]

Irony is Jamesons NFL comp might just be Robby Anderson. Elite deep ball skills and ehh everywhere else. Jameson is physically stronger though. 

[Butterfield]

2 hours ago, Barton said:

Irony is Jamesons NFL comp might just be Robby Anderson. Elite deep ball skills and ehh everywhere else. Jameson is physically stronger though. 

I think Williams is better, but their games do seem similar.  

[Butterfield]

5 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

 

 

I can’t tell if Jameson is a body catcher by nature or if his routes dictate that (running past the defense, under the ball, creates a basket catch situation). Going back to the tape, he actually does resemble CeeDee Lamb in stature a little; but you don’t see a lot of contested traffic catches, or ladder climbing like you do with Lamb.  But then, you see him blowing up dudes on STs. And I mean, BLOWING them up… so apparently there’s not a fear of contact.   Maybe it’s just scheming.  He’s so f***ing fast, maybe coaches just had him running 9’s and skinny posts because that opened up their offense. 

 

He does make a lot of the basket type catches, but I think you are right in that the routes he is running dictates that he has to catch it like that.

He has made plenty of hands catches when he has needed to.  

[RedBeardedSavage]

3 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

1 choice forgives decades of mistakes?

 

Geez. Talk to my wife about that sh*t. You're very forgiving.

Haha

The Moore pick does inspire confidence. 

Deebo Samuel, Davante Adams, AJ Brown & DK Metcalf were all second rounders. 

I guess I'd say there's Jets history and good allocation of draft resources -and the two have been, historically, far apart.

But we're trying to change to that.

I don't see a Ja'Marr Chase in this draft.  There are always really good receivers in the second round every year, and the drop off in offensive tackles/edge rushers is always precipitous after round one.

A lot of this depends on what the organization truly believes about Becton and whether we bring back Moses. If we truly feel good @ RT, then I'm more open on rolling the dice on someone like Jameson Williams in the first.

If Treylon Burks tests well - that's the dude I'd draft over all the rest. 

[sec101row23]

The dilemma you have right now is that the WRs who seem to be the best fits for this team are all probably mid to late first round selections, so barring a trade down or a trade up from the second round, these guys will most likely not be drafted by the Jets.  If Burks or London really kill it in workouts then maybe one of them sneaks into the top 15.   
 

[section314]

6 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

The dilemma you have right now is that the WRs who seem to be the best fits for this team are all probably mid to late first round selections, so barring a trade down or a trade up from the second round, these guys will most likely not be drafted by the Jets.  If Burks or London really kill it in workouts then maybe one of them sneaks into the top 15.   
 

This point is absolutely valid, but I feel that in this case the Jets can be a little contrarian and take a WR with #7 if they feel he is "the guy." IMHO, after edge, WR#1 is our most glaring need. 

[sec101row23]

2 minutes ago, section314 said:

This point is absolutely valid, but I feel that in this case the Jets can be a little contrarian and take a WR with #7 if they feel he is "the guy." IMHO, after edge, WR#1 is our most glaring need. 

I agree.   Right now feels like almost anyone you mock with the Seattle pick is a “reach” because so few prospects have separated themselves.   

[section314]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

I agree.   Right now feels like almost anyone you mock with the Seattle pick is a “reach” because so few prospects have separated themselves.   

Thanks for the rundown on the new UVA coach. My son's father-in-law is a big UVA booster, and was very happy to read it. They are very excited about Elliot.

[playtowinthegame]

7 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

Looks like the draftnik legend Joel Buchsbaum.

 

[sec101row23]

19 minutes ago, section314 said:

Thanks for the rundown on the new UVA coach. My son's father-in-law is a big UVA booster, and was very happy to read it. They are very excited about Elliot.

You’re welcome.  Tony has been doing a nice job putting his staff together.   He’s going to be good for UVA.   Hope your son’s father in law likes screen passes though…Lol.   

[derp]

2 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

I agree.   Right now feels like almost anyone you mock with the Seattle pick is a “reach” because so few prospects have separated themselves.   

Frankly it's the same situation at 4. The board is definitely going to shuffle as we get closer but I have a feeling both picks are going to feel like "reaches".

Realistically there's a huge cluster in the top 20 prospects of the draft with very few players (certainly less than 4) who have really separated themselves as prospects. It's potentially going to be a wild draft.

I keep thinking the QB's are going to fall because it's a weak QB class but on the flip side if you've got a chance to improve what's easily the most important position on the field...the position player opportunity cost isn't as high as it would be most years. I wonder if there's going to be a big cluster of QB's somewhere...6-15 range maybe? You've got a bunch of teams who could use longer term answers and maybe they start to think if we're going to roll the dice anyway maybe we just roll the dice on a QB and we can always take another bite at the apple next year a-la Arizona with Rosen-Murray.

Would be awesome if the Jets could move down with a team that wants a QB. Lots of stuff they can do day two to improve talent/depth.

Also while I continue to think Williams chugs his way to consensus WR1 - Burks just absolutely fits what I think the Jets could use like a glove. Explosive, YAC, run game experience, size, contested ability...potential true #1 receiver. There's a chance he blows up the combine too, dude just has another gear. And he is gigantic. Throw him in with Moore and Davis as WR3, get him sweeps, screens, and deep shots as he gets up to speed, and let him make an impact while developing. Deebo Samuel trajectory.

[Paradis]

3 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

The dilemma you have right now is that the WRs who seem to be the best fits for this team are all probably mid to late first round selections, so barring a trade down or a trade up from the second round, these guys will most likely not be drafted by the Jets.  If Burks or London really kill it in workouts then maybe one of them sneaks into the top 15.   
 

we have two top 10 picks in arguably the worst draft in a decade. No QBs have excited the top 5 market, OTs are... there, I guess. No blue chip WRs, The pass rushers seems to be "your mileage may vary" types... Last year, you had 4 QBs, 2 WRs, Pitts, Sewell.. Can you imagine?

If that isn't #Jetlife material.... 

[Paradis]

10 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

 

 

I can’t tell if Jameson is a body catcher by nature or if his routes dictate that (running past the defense, under the ball, creates a basket catch situation). Going back to the tape, he actually does resemble CeeDee Lamb in stature a little; but you don’t see a lot of contested traffic catches, or ladder climbing like you do with Lamb.  But then, you see him blowing up dudes on STs. And I mean, BLOWING them up… so apparently there’s not a fear of contact.   Maybe it’s just scheming.  He’s so f***ing fast, maybe coaches just had him running 9’s and skinny posts because that opened up their offense. 

There’s nothing wrong with drafting a sober, taller Ruggs.  But the idea that speed alone will make the team better is how you end up with a John Ross.
 I’d personally like to see more action over the middle; some traffic catches that turn into YAC (like you see with Lamb, and Burks), but not seeing it in college tape doesn’t mean it’s not possible. 

Personally, I think if Burks can run low 4.5’s or better, he’s the play.  Big Slot, like CeeDee (or Micheal Thomas, “Mr. Slant Boy”), let Elijah run the ‘Z’ where he’s most effective, and Corey drop passes from the ‘X’.  And let the big boys do some run blocking to spring Carter. 

Add in a physical TE or two (Njoku, and McBride) and some beef on the OL, and we have a bully offense that NOBODY wants to play.  

Some good talking points. I kind of thought some similar things about Williams and his hands, as well as in traffic... but watching more games, I got more comfortable. It's not a strength, but a liability would be too strong an indictment. 

Route stuff aside, IMO his change of direction/short area speed leaves a lot to desire. Which casts a shadow over what he can do for offense besides the obvious

[ScarletKnight89]

Right now Jameson William is the guy I want the Jets to take at pick 4. He's explosive. 

[Jetsfan80]

9 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

1 choice forgives decades of mistakes?

 

Geez. Talk to my wife about that sh*t. You're very forgiving.

 

5 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Haha

The Moore pick does inspire confidence. 

Deebo Samuel, Davante Adams, AJ Brown & DK Metcalf were all second rounders. 

I guess I'd say there's Jets history and good allocation of draft resources -and the two have been, historically, far apart.

But we're trying to change to that.

I don't see a Ja'Marr Chase in this draft.  There are always really good receivers in the second round every year, and the drop off in offensive tackles/edge rushers is always precipitous after round one.

A lot of this depends on what the organization truly believes about Becton and whether we bring back Moses. If we truly feel good @ RT, then I'm more open on rolling the dice on someone like Jameson Williams in the first.

If Treylon Burks tests well - that's the dude I'd draft over all the rest. 

The 2nd round/early 3rd certainly seems to be the “sweet spot” for finding receivers for competent franchises.  It’s not early enough where a bust is a crushing blow but it’s also not so late you miss out on high ceiling talent.

Hopefully Douglas gets really good at drafting receivers in that range, because I don’t really foresee him using a 1st on a receiver any time soon, including on this draft class.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

6 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Haha

The Moore pick does inspire confidence. 

Deebo Samuel, Davante Adams, AJ Brown & DK Metcalf were all second rounders. 

I guess I'd say there's Jets history and good allocation of draft resources -and the two have been, historically, far apart.

But we're trying to change to that.

I don't see a Ja'Marr Chase in this draft.  There are always really good receivers in the second round every year, and the drop off in offensive tackles/edge rushers is always precipitous after round one.

A lot of this depends on what the organization truly believes about Becton and whether we bring back Moses. If we truly feel good @ RT, then I'm more open on rolling the dice on someone like Jameson Williams in the first.

If Treylon Burks tests well - that's the dude I'd draft over all the rest. 

 

Could be JD's thinking as well.

[RedBeardedSavage]

33 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

 

Could be JD's thinking as well.

Going to be interesting how we approach that position this year - and the rest of the offensive line tbh. Fant's got another year left, and it's likely we extend him after a stellar season. AVT is locked-in @ LG.

Beyond that?

• McGovern is solid, but I think he'd be better @ RG 
• LDT has been good, but will we pay him - does he want to stay?
• Will Moses return?
• Becton is the huge question mark - is he penciled in as a starter anywhere? I doubt he overtakes Fant. Can he move to RT? Is the coaching staff just done with him? 

I didn't know the tackle class is that deep. That's good. But I really like Ekwonu - played the wide zone @ NC State is a punishing run blocker. But he'll seemingly cost a high first rounder. 

I see people talk about Neal from 'Bama all the time on this site - but does he fit this system? Can he move well? Do we want to roll the dice on another 350+ lb'er? I'm certainly not qualified to answer, but I'm skeptical. 

The easy solution is to just bring back Moses, extend Fant and go into camp assuming they're the starters and make Mekhi earn a spot.

In that scenario, and with the topic of this thread being WR, I think you could afford to go defense twice in the top 10 and then say WR/TE at the top of round 2. The dream scenario might be Trey McBride & David Bell at the top of the second round. 

[65 Toss Power Trap]

10 hours ago, Barton said:

Irony is Jamesons NFL comp might just be Robby Anderson. Elite deep ball skills and ehh everywhere else. Jameson is physically stronger though. 

Wow. Jameson might go top 15. Hopefully his ceiling is way about RA.

[65 Toss Power Trap]

6 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

The dilemma you have right now is that the WRs who seem to be the best fits for this team are all probably mid to late first round selections, so barring a trade down or a trade up from the second round, these guys will most likely not be drafted by the Jets.  If Burks or London really kill it in workouts then maybe one of them sneaks into the top 15.   
 

Yep. And the Jets need so much help on Defense that I hope they don't give up picks to trade up for a WR. Our WR situation is not perfect right now, but we've got some real holes to fill. CD hasn't shown that he's a dominant #1, and Mims doesn't look look like he's going to work out, but we've got some pieces. We'll find the guy at some point without having to get desperate.

[65 Toss Power Trap]

32 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Going to be interesting how we approach that position this year - and the rest of the offensive line tbh. Fant's got another year left, and it's likely we extend him after a stellar season. AVT is locked-in @ LG.

Beyond that?

• McGovern is solid, but I think he'd be better @ RG 
• LDT has been good, but will we pay him - does he want to stay?
• Will Moses return?
• Becton is the huge question mark - is he penciled in as a starter anywhere? I doubt he overtakes Fant. Can he move to RT? Is the coaching staff just done with him? 

I didn't know the tackle class is that deep. That's good. But I really like Ekwonu - played the wide zone @ NC State is a punishing run blocker. But he'll seemingly cost a high first rounder. 

I see people talk about Neal from 'Bama all the time on this site - but does he fit this system? Can he move well? Do we want to roll the dice on another 350+ lb'er? I'm certainly not qualified to answer, but I'm skeptical. 

The easy solution is to just bring back Moses, extend Fant and go into camp assuming they're the starters and make Mekhi earn a spot.

In that scenario, and with the topic of this thread being WR, I think you could afford to go defense twice in the top 10 and then say WR/TE at the top of round 2. The dream scenario might be Trey McBride & David Bell at the top of the second round. 

I think defense has to be the focus (which I assume you do also as you point out we ought to spend our first rounders on).

A long-term, stud TE would be awesome. I know nothing about Trey McBride. Who does he compare to? Any other TEs in the draft worth looking at? It would be great if we could figure out a TE this offseason. With that said, do any of the guys on the roster have a chance to be the long-term solution?  Does Yeboah have a high ceiling? Is Tyler Kroft not sufficient? Etc.

[sec101row23]

3 hours ago, Paradis said:

we have two top 10 picks in arguably the worst draft in a decade. No QBs have excited the top 5 market, OTs are... there, I guess. No blue chip WRs, The pass rushers seems to be "your mileage may vary" types... Last year, you had 4 QBs, 2 WRs, Pitts, Sewell.. Can you imagine?

If that isn't #Jetlife material.... 

agreed.   The more I look at this draft, the more disappointing it gets.  This could be worse than 2013.  

[section314]

8 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

You’re welcome.  Tony has been doing a nice job putting his staff together.   He’s going to be good for UVA.   Hope your son’s father in law likes screen passes though…Lol.   

As long as they are thrown to Hoos, he's good.

[Jet_Engine1]

On 1/7/2022 at 6:33 PM, Paradis said:

Terrible way to assess a pick and I would forfeit this team if the took a guy who run 4 routes, 2 out of 1 formation at 4. 

this is the definition of letting a pair of t*ts decide your fate. 

Is this about Nike Zimmer?

[RedBeardedSavage]

5 hours ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

I think defense has to be the focus (which I assume you do also as you point out we ought to spend our first rounders on).

A long-term, stud TE would be awesome. I know nothing about Trey McBride. Who does he compare to? Any other TEs in the draft worth looking at? It would be great if we could figure out a TE this offseason. With that said, do any of the guys on the roster have a chance to be the long-term solution?  Does Yeboah have a high ceiling? Is Tyler Kroft not sufficient? Etc.

I'm definitely not a scouting expert, but if you take a look at the draft forum - all the guys in that sub forum love him. Kroft is always injured and Yeboah is an undrafted FA.

And I'm not sure I'm married to taking two defensive players - but I'm open to it.

With four picks in the top 40 - it's not out of the realm that the two best players available in the first are defenders, and guys like McBride or the second tier receivers are available high in the second. There's seemingly no WR that's worth a top 10 pick this year, and depending on how we handle our offensive tackle situation this year, we may not have need there either. 

It's really early into this process though. Once we have combine, we'll know more. 

[65 Toss Power Trap]

1 hour ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I'm definitely not a scouting expert, but if you take a look at the draft forum - all the guys in that sub forum love him. Kroft is always injured and Yeboah is an undrafted FA.

And I'm not sure I'm married to taking two defensive players - but I'm open to it.

With four picks in the top 40 - it's not out of the realm that the two best players available in the first are defenders, and guys like McBride or the second tier receivers are available high in the second. There's seemingly no WR that's worth a top 10 pick this year, and depending on how we handle our offensive tackle situation this year, we may not have need their either. 

It's really early into this process though. Once we have combine, we'll know more. 

I was just watching some highlights--he's like a lighter weight lineman who can catch and run. He's impressive. Hopefully he's there in the 2nd Round.

[Chrebetfan80]

On 1/7/2022 at 10:50 PM, Paradis said:

 

 

Alright listen, we're both Jet fans and I'm with you. I want more more talent at WR as well. Williams will probably blow the top off the defense... But when the DC has the safeties playing high/deep on a predictable 3rd and 8 inside the 20 -- your #4 pick at WR is effectively taken out of the game. The fact that you see similarities between him and Lamb speaks volumes about where you're coming from. I don't mean that to be rude or condescending -- but they're not the same, at all. Like dramatically so. The things that Williams struggles with IMO were the things Lamb was good at lol... @derp and @Chrebetfan80 are both huge Williams fans, so i'll let them offer another angle on this -- but you can go on twitter and follow my thread on him. I broke down games. He is electric, and there's promise in his development -- totally -- but number 4 is insane. He's not even WR1 (imo)... Burks, Wilson, London, i have all 3 ahead of him atm,... 

Tantalizing playmaking ability, but the Williams evaluation is no where no as straight forward as youre suggestion. 

Lamb isnt a good comp to me.  Different games coming out and Lamb was a much more nuanced route runner coming out.  

What you see with Williams is the raw tools to be an excellent route runner which I think will show as we go through the process.  His foot speed and his ability to sink his hips at the top of breaks making sure he looses little speed in and out of this point is excellent.  Short area quickness is not so much of his game, but the ability to accelerate fast is really special. 

4th overall is too high for any WR in this draft.  In fact i wouldnt take any of them top 10 probably.  My sweet spot is in the teens for WR's although I do think Williams and Wilson will go earlier, with one going in the top 10. 

[56mehl56]

At WR I love both Treylon Burks and David Bell at TE I'd go for Trey McBride or Charlie Kolar. 

[JAFJET]

No matter which WR the Jets decide to go with at 4 or even 10 some other club will pick one later in the draft that will turn out to be much better. That's just the way it goes with the Jets.

 

[Larz]

Torn ACL

the jets injury jinx is powerful indeed!