Rank the Triumvirate

[UntouchableCrew]

For NFL teams your faith in the overall direction of the org can often be narrowed down to how much you believe in three central figures -- the QB, the HC, and the GM.

Even if your roster sucks or you have a bad history -- if the QB, HC, and GM are good usually things will work out long term.

How would you rank Zach Wilson, Robert Saleh, and Joe Douglas in terms of most to least confident in their abilities?

I think I know who would be first, but I'm curious how Jets fans feel about these three stacked up against each other and the likelihood they'd have success away from each other.

[JohnnyLV]

Douglas=Wilson>=Saleh

[T0mShane]

[HawkeyeJet]

The greatest trio since TLC, imho.

[UnknownJetFan]

I'd say JD is trending High as most confidence in him out of the 3 since really the Jury is still out of both Saleh and Wilson. Giving JD credit in area of last 2 drafts, and Cap mgt. of not only having it in real good shape over the last 2 years, but also for 2022 only 2M dead cap money, that is unbelievable.

JD - most confident of the 3(see above)

ZW - next in confidence of the 3(medium level confidence based on last years finish and overall talent added for this year on O for him) 

RS - last in confidence of the 3 since you really could not tell much from last year all the way through. Couldn't tell for Motivation, X's and O's, etc. and I'll give him some credit for the player relationship since they seem to like him and he has had some players come here that said they wanted to play for him.

[Warfish]

19 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

How would you rank Zach Wilson, Robert Saleh, and Joe Douglas in terms of most to least confident in their abilities?

Zach - Bust as of now.  Future 100% TBD.  Has potential, and I am rooting for him to take a huge step in 2022.  Low Confidence, need to see it first.

Saleh - Bust so far, owner of worst Defense in Franchise history.  Future 100% TBD.  Loved his hiring, now, 50/50 on that in hindsight.  Like Zach, hoping for a big step in 2022. Low Confidence, need to see it first.

JD - Great trader of assets away, pretty darn good drafter (on paper), poop in terms of Free Agency and new contracts, especially the first few years.  Future looks pretty bright if he can field a team that wins some games, and he cuts back on horrible FA signings and 1-year JAG placeholder Vets.  Medium to High confidence, but maybe that's just cause I loved the 2022 Draft class.

[Jet Nut]

Just now, Warfish said:

Zach - Bust as of now.  Future 100% TBD.  Has potential, and I am rooting for him to take a huge step in 2022.

Saleh - Bust so far, owner of worst Defense in Franchise history.  Future 100% TBD.  Loved his hiring, now, 50/50 on that in hindsight.  Like Zach, hoping for a big step in 2022.

JD - Great trader of assets away, pretty darn good drafter (on paper), poop in terms of Free Agency and new contracts, especially the first few years.  Future looks pretty bright if he can field a team that wins some games, and he cuts back on horrible FA signings and 1-year JAG placeholder Vets.

Busts

After one season?  

[UntouchableCrew]

12 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Zach - Bust as of now.  Future 100% TBD.  Has potential, and I am rooting for him to take a huge step in 2022.  Low Confidence, need to see it first.

Saleh - Bust so far, owner of worst Defense in Franchise history.  Future 100% TBD.  Loved his hiring, now, 50/50 on that in hindsight.  Like Zach, hoping for a big step in 2022. Low Confidence, need to see it first.

JD - Great trader of assets away, pretty darn good drafter (on paper), poop in terms of Free Agency and new contracts, especially the first few years.  Future looks pretty bright if he can field a team that wins some games, and he cuts back on horrible FA signings and 1-year JAG placeholder Vets.  Medium to High confidence, but maybe that's just cause I loved the 2022 Draft class.

So you have Saleh ahead of Wilson or they're essentially equal (bust until proven otherwise?)

[derp]

On an NFL draft forum I used to post on, one of the guys who was a Jets and Rutgers fan had a "Triumvirate of Greatness" signature. Think it was Brooks Bollinger, Brian Leonard, and Wayne Chrebet. Word triumvirate always takes me to that sig.

[Joe W. Namath]

Best young GM/Coach/QB combination the league.  These 3 are bringing us multiple Super Bowls over the next 10-15 years.

Get ready Jet fans!!!  Its happening!!!!!

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

We only have sufficient data on JD.  Overall, I give him a strong grade on the leading indicators to a successful team.  The roster is now competitive and the team set up to make a sustained run starting in 2023.  Coaching and QB play will determine how far the Jets go and what his final grade will be.    

1. Great cap management & contract structuring.  See today's post on Jets now ranking last in Dead Cap Space (a good thing)

2. Very happy with roster turnover/development.  It needed to start slow before accelerating

3. We now see an identity developing that matches/compliments Saleh's.  Strong offensive line, balanced attack, defensive pressure upfront and corners who can get you off the field on 3rd down

4. Leveraged our few (perceived) assets and traded them for a King's ransom.  The Jets WON the Adams, Darnold & Herndon trades and somehow got a 6th rounder for Blake Cashman, possibly the biggest heist of them all

5. Strategically built a value oriented roster using the draft above all else followed by discipline in free agency

6. Aggressively & effectively used the waiver wire tool when others didn't (e.g., Giants), utilizing a good eye for undeveloped talent (JFM, Berrios, Quincy W)

7. Draft:  2020 looks BAD but how much was influenced by Gase?  2021 & 2022 look like cornerstone pieces and the fruits of #3 above

8. Free Agency mixed results .. had to take some chances early, some bad injury luck, but finding its groove .  Looking at $5M+ per year contracts-- missed on Perriman, J Davis, Rankins; hit on McGovern, Fant; TBD on Lawson, C Davis; promising 2022 class looks best on paper).  GVR was what we paid, a $3M per year stopgap. ** All contracts structured with low impact escape clauses **

9. Moved on from Darnold not a day too soon, drafted a potential franchise QB, and has accumulated a supporting offensive cast to improve Wilson's chance of success

10. Fired Gase not a day too soon and hired who many believed to be the top coaching candidate available 

Miscellaneous:  restructured leadership reporting relationships; strong on Data Analytics; effort but not results in solving injuries    

[Gastineau Lives]

36 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Best young GM/Coach/QB combination the league.  These 3 are bringing us multiple Super Bowls over the next 10-15 years.

Get ready Jet fans!!!  Its happening!!!!!

I'm in, Joe W.

Its me and you, baby. Let the world say what it will.

[Warfish]

43 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

So you have Saleh ahead of Wilson or they're essentially equal (bust until proven otherwise?)

I suppose I have Saleh slightly ahead of Wilson, albeit probably with a negligible variance at this point.

Mostly because I truly liked Saleh's hiring and I didn't support the drafting of Zach Wilson.

So inherently I believed in one more originally, that one would be a success, and the other would not.

Now, I feel much more equal about them.  They're both squarely in the "show me" stage.

[Hal N of Provo]

Just now, Gastineau Lives said:

I'm in, Joe W.

Its me and you, baby. Let the world say what it will.

[Hal N of Provo]

Just now, Warfish said:

I suppose I have Saleh slightly ahead of Wilson, albeit probably with a negligible variance at this point.

Mostly because I truly liked Saleh's hiring and I didn't support the drafting of Zach Wilson.

So inherently I believed in one more originally, that one would be a success, and the other would not.

Now, I feel much more equal about them.  They're both squarely in the "show me" stage.

[MARTIN]

JD > BOB > ZACH... and i do like zach

[FidelioJet]

Too early

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

Too early

Too early to have confidence in their abilities, or too early to tell us all how much confidence you have in their abilities?

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

Not surprisingly, too many one line, quick hit narratives on Social Media and message boards.  The fact is it takes multiple years to evaluate a GM and more than 1 to evaluate a rookie coach or rookie quarterback on a team that is rebuilding.

As context, I built an online business that took 8 years before ultimately selling to a private equity shop.  This experience has told me SO much about the leading indicators to success.  Exponential sales or in the case of the Jets .. wins .. comes after you build the foundation.  

I truly believe the foundation is now set.  The Jets stunk in 2021 and had at least 2 wins fewer just from another case of excessive injuries.  I mean who bet them to win the Division?  Heck, they win 5 games if Wilson just handed off to Berrios against the Bucs.

Nothing has derailed my belief in Saleh and the culture and identity he is building.  He forewarned us about adversity before results.  Then the Jets lost their QB coach to a horrible accident, suffered a ridiculous amount of injuries, and had a rookie QB who was overthinking.  But the staff intentionally played the youngsters and transitioned to their new schemes at the expense of another win or 2.  These forward looking decisions and an adaptive defensive philosophy (premium put on corners) tell me that Saleh sees the forest thru the trees.

Now to Wilson, in my opinion the only way he doesn't become a better than average quarterback are the YIPS.  I do worry about some of the accuracy issues that didn't appear on his college tape.  Throws that some of us could make.  For example, a 5 - 10 yarder to a wide open receiver.  On the flip side, his upside is undeniable.  Arm talent, escapability, 'off platform' ..  

[Hex]

JD > Saleh >= Zach

JD has proven (At least to me) to be a good GM. I like the moves he has made, and he has build around Zach. Confidence: 75%

Saleh had a terrible defense last year, but they were destroyed by injuries and I also wonder how much of the blame for that bad D is on Ulbrich. Confidence: 50%

Zach played terribly, and during some stretches it was obvious he played badly even if the team around him sucked. I improved a lot in one year, and I think that he will play much better next season. Confidence: 50%

[rangerous]

douglas then saleh then wilson.  douglas has done a good job sweeping out the deadwood and bringing it what seem to be good players.  i grade saleh next because someone must have told lafleur to change his play selection.  wilson's next because he still has a bit of a gun slinger streak.  the bottom line is things are looking very up.

[JetsFanatic]

As far as grades, IMO they all get an “incomplete.” JD is showing great promise. Saleh and Wilson need more time to fairly evaluate.

[Joe W. Namath]

4 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

As far as grades, IMO they all get an “incomplete.” JD is showing great promise. Saleh and Wilson need more time to fairly evaluate.

There is no "incomplete" with Joe Douglas.  He is a generational gm.

What Robert Saleh did last year with the youth and lack of talent on the roster was a borderline miracle.  To keep this team together, competing and believing when they really had 0 chance of winning any of these games was one of the best year 1 rebuild coaching jobs i have ever seen.  There is no "incomplete" for coach.  Hes a stud.

I think Zach is going to be a superstar but I can understand how you can give him an "incomplete:.  But a few weeks into this season and you are going to be off any "incomplete" bandwagon for Zach.  Hes going to be great.

[Drums]

Confident in JD

Not sure about Saleh but he has a real roster and needs to develop the draft picks. He talks the part, seems smart.  I don’t regret his hire.

I think Wilson will have a good year and if he doesn’t, he isn’t the guy. More than Wilson, I’m actually confident in the offense. What?

I think we are on the right track. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

So you have Saleh ahead of Wilson or they're essentially equal (bust until proven otherwise?)

Because of the D some blame Saleh.  But he doesn’t run the D.  Might as well blame him for Wilson’s rookie year too.

[Jet Nut]

10 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

As far as grades, IMO they all get an “incomplete.” JD is showing great promise. Saleh and Wilson need more time to fairly evaluate.

Exactly, someone gets it.  

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Too early to have confidence in their abilities, or too early to tell us all how much confidence you have in their abilities?

both

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

both

I get a distinct shell-shocked vibe from you lately Fid, hope you haven't lost that spark of optimism mate.

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

As far as grades, IMO they all get an “incomplete.” JD is showing great promise. Saleh and Wilson need more time to fairly evaluate.

If some of you were HS teachers, no one would get any grades till the final day of their senior years, when they either graduate or fail out, lol.

Grades now are clearly "mid-term", not final.  It's funny how some folks can't seem to grapple with that idea and reject out of hand the idea of any mid-stream evaluations.  

Well, till the guy in question makes a great pass, then all that "incomplete" stuff goes out the window in an avalanche of praise and "all time great" talk, lol.

[jetstream23]

4 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Best young GM/Coach/QB combination the league.  These 3 are bringing us multiple Super Bowls over the next 10-15 years.

Get ready Jet fans!!!  Its happening!!!!!

 

[JetsFanatic]

3 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

There is no "incomplete" with Joe Douglas.  He is a generational gm.

What Robert Saleh did last year with the youth and lack of talent on the roster was a borderline miracle.  To keep this team together, competing and believing when they really had 0 chance of winning any of these games was one of the best year 1 rebuild coaching jobs i have ever seen.  There is no "incomplete" for coach.  Hes a stud.

I think Zach is going to be a superstar but I can understand how you can give him an "incomplete:.  But a few weeks into this season and you are going to be off any "incomplete" bandwagon for Zach.  Hes going to be great.

I agree with you about JD, but it’s tough to give a grade until we see a final product. He did the right thing totally tearing down the garbage that Mac left him and is currently rebuilding the team from scratch. IMO he’s done everything right so far. There was a reason he demanded a 6 year contract because he knew the magnitude of job he had in front of him.

I also agree with you regarding Saleh and Wilson. Saleh kept a young team together last season and defeated Tennessee and Cincinnati and came within a hair of beating Tampa Bay. 

Wilson certainly improved by the latter part of the season going the final 5 games without throwing a pick.

[Sarge4Tide]

1. Caesar
2. Pompey
3. Crassus

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I get a distinct shell-shocked vibe from you lately Fid, hope you haven't lost that spark of optimism mate.

I think he knows if Zach Wilson fails in year 2 he'll have no one to blame but Zach Wilson.  An existential crisis if I've ever heard of one.

[Irish Jet]

4 hours ago, Sarge4Tide said:

1. Caesar
2. Pompey
3. Crassus

God damn ninja beats me to it.

Same order too lol.

[Hael]

Pretty obvious really.  JD >>>> Saleh >>>> Zach

It takes a few years for a system to really be implemented and to become team wide memory, and I dont expect things to be all smooth sailing this year either.  IMO Salehs hot seat if things dont work out is really end of next year and the following season.

JD has expertly delivered a tear down and has done 75% of the job in bringing in new blood that fits the new scheme.  A+ grade, I dont think there is a GM in the league that could have done more in such a short amount of time given the constraints he was under.

ZW..  Not impressed at all, his rookie year was flat out atrocious, and the flashes I saw were problematic from a reproducability stand point.  He’s basically just raw undeveloped arm talent and some ok athleticism.  I personally think the best case is like a 3-4 year project, but hope to be wrong.  My injury prognosis for him is very high.