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If Joe Flacco is as bad as some people think he is, his play in the first few games of the season (if he even starts more than one), will be self evident. Zach will be re-inserted as starter and we see what he is.

If Joe Flacco lights it up against the Ravens and Browns and the Jets are 2-0, you obviously keep rolling with him until he stinks up the joint a couple of times. Zach will be re-inserted as starter and we see what he is. If that's only half a season, so be it.

If Joe Flacco turns into Vinny Testaverde 1998 - and the Jets are a playoff team? Will any of us really care if we "don't know what Zach is" yet? 

I honestly don't get what people are so worried about. The situation will resolve itself.

Let's try and enjoy the season for as long as we can. It very well may be over before Halloween like almost every season the last decade.

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8 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

I had a different take on that INT. It wasn't the worst INT i've ever seen, saw it as more of great anticipation and break by the LB. Zach didn't expect to have to look off a guy on a quick route like that.

It's not the worst INT I've ever seen either.  I mean, I watched all of Sam Darnold's throws as a Jet.

The problem is, Zach never saw him coming.  The LB was doing his job, and made a nice play, but as I noted, it looked like the DB would also have had a pretty strong opportunity to get an INT there, if not break up the pass at the very least.

It's not the death blow, but considering it came right after skying the ball to G. Wilson, and off of a season like last year, it's, lets say, not a very good sign.

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2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Honestly the first pass that completely sailed over G. Wilson’s head was worse than the interception. You can’t play if you can’t make that throw 10 times out of 10.

I didn't re-watch the game, but someone who did yesterday said it looked like he saw a defender breaking on the receiver and threw it away .  Can't kill him for that if that is what he read. Things in real time aren't always what they seem. 

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5 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

In the pantheon of our sh*tty QBs of the past decade, was there ever a season that we came into without a narrative around them being "more confident" or some other thing that doesn't end up panning out?

So should we all just give up. All I'm saying is talk is cheap regardless of whether its pro or con. Lets let the games to be played be the barometer by which we judge the players. 

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14 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Flacco is a competent QB.  He wouldn't be hanging around if he wasn't.  He's not great.  But, he still understands the game of football.  We literally have no evidence that Zach does.  We just have hero ball, basically.

I've already conceded that Flacco isn't what's in the best interest of this team long term.  But, you asked why people would root for him.  The answer is pretty simple.  @UntouchableCrew nailed it as well.  I'm sort of tired of giving up years in the interest of some greater good that may never come.  It'd be one thing if Zach showed any promise.  He hasn't.  He's shown he can pull off some very exciting plays.  I'm at a point in my life where there's a lot of competition for my eyes and time.  Obviously I love the Jets, but if football isn't fun to watch, it's going to lose that competition.  If it doesn't make me happy, it's going to lose that competition.

If the Jets win the Super Bowl, I'll be at work on Monday.  So, while I still recognize what's best for the long term interests of the team, you'll have to forgive me not wanting to sit through another year of hapless QB play.  I've done it with Sanchez, with Geno, and with Darnold, and last year with Wilson.  In a decade, the payoff hasn't come.  So, you'll have to forgive me rooting for whomever makes the hobby fun.

3 wins.  I don't consider 3 and 0, considering the opportunities, that far apart.

At this point I just want a team that on certain sundays they have a legitimate chance of winning or you actually expect that they can hang close and win.

This is supposed to be entertaining, not torture

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6 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Flacco is a competent QB.  He wouldn't be hanging around if he wasn't.  He's not great.  But, he still understands the game of football.  We literally have no evidence that Zach does.  We just have hero ball, basically.

I've already conceded that Flacco isn't what's in the best interest of this team long term.  But, you asked why people would root for him.  The answer is pretty simple.  @UntouchableCrew nailed it as well.  I'm sort of tired of giving up years in the interest of some greater good that may never come.  It'd be one thing if Zach showed any promise.  He hasn't.  He's shown he can pull off some very exciting plays.  I'm at a point in my life where there's a lot of competition for my eyes and time.  Obviously I love the Jets, but if football isn't fun to watch, it's going to lose that competition.  If it doesn't make me happy, it's going to lose that competition.

If the Jets win the Super Bowl, I'll be at work on Monday.  So, while I still recognize what's best for the long term interests of the team, you'll have to forgive me not wanting to sit through another year of hapless QB play.  I've done it with Sanchez, with Geno, and with Darnold, and last year with Wilson.  In a decade, the payoff hasn't come.  So, you'll have to forgive me rooting for whomever makes the hobby fun.

While I vehemently disagree with 99% of the Flacco analysis, I can certainly forgive you for wanting what you want.  I just want to be treated the same way and have people understand that I will not be watching one snap of Flacco, nor will I be rooting for any victories with him under center, because I feel the opposite that you do, in the sense that I would trade a horrendous season or two in for the potential of 10-15 great years.  Maybe it’s the last bit of my youth hanging on to this idea that a year or two isn’t as long as it seems, but that’s just how I feel.  As of today, until we know more about Wilson’s timetable, I will not be watching Week 1 for the first time in all the years I’ve watched football.  I have no interest and I don’t have it in me to root for a washed up 37 year old back-up.  The last time I felt the way I did was 2017, with McCown, and I vividly remember how miserable I was watching that game.  I’ve made the tentative plans to go out and do something else, and I’m already thinking about what to do Week 2.

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11 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Honestly the first pass that completely sailed over G. Wilson’s head was worse than the interception. You can’t play if you can’t make that throw 10 times out of 10.

Big deal, a QB threw a pass that sailed.  Happens every game to every QB who plays the game.  
There isn’t a QB in the history of the game who hasn’t missed passes.  Or thrown INTs etc.  it’s part of the game.  

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11 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

It's not the worst INT I've ever seen either.  I mean, I watched all of Sam Darnold's throws as a Jet.

The problem is, Zach never saw him coming.  The LB was doing his job, and made a nice play, but as I noted, it looked like the DB would also have had a pretty strong opportunity to get an INT there, if not break up the pass at the very least.

It's not the death blow, but considering it came right after skying the ball to G. Wilson, and off of a season like last year, it's, lets say, not a very good sign.

DB was behind the receiver, he wasn’t in position to make a play, can’t agree there.  He didn’t take into account that the LB would jump the route and could make the play.  Hopefully he learned from it.  

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5 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I'm sure those are classified as great Defensive plays or misreads by the receiver - because it can't be Tom's fault - evah 

omg there are sooo many bone headed ones where he throws right to the defender 10yards away just go search youtube for tom brady interceptions and enjoy

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8 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

While I vehemently disagree with 99% of the Flacco analysis, I can certainly forgive you for wanting what you want.  I just want to be treated the same way and have people understand that I will not be watching one snap of Flacco, nor will I be rooting for any victories with him under center, because I feel the opposite that you do, in the sense that I would trade a horrendous season or two in for the potential of 10-15 great years.  Maybe it’s the last bit of my youth hanging on to this idea that a year or two isn’t as long as it seems, but that’s just how I feel.  As of today, until we know more about Wilson’s timetable, I will not be watching Week 1 for the first time in all the years I’ve watched football.  I have no interest and I don’t have it in me to root for a washed up 37 year old back-up.  The last time I felt the way I did was 2017, with McCown, and I vividly remember how miserable I was watching that game.  I’ve made the tentative plans to go out and do something else, and I’m already thinking about what to do Week 2.

I will root for Flacco in first few games of the season, but after that if Wilson comes back and then somehow Flacco goes back in, I agree, I would be rooting for losses to better draft position. If in anyway Flacco is slated as the guy next season, its a disaster before it starts. But I would root for Flacco early season in hoping Wilson can come in at some point to a season not over before it starts

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13 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

So should we all just give up. All I'm saying is talk is cheap regardless of whether its pro or con. Lets let the games to be played be the barometer by which we judge the players. 

My barometer is backed by 50+ years of ineptitude.

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19 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I didn't re-watch the game, but someone who did yesterday said it looked like he saw a defender breaking on the receiver and threw it away .  Can't kill him for that if that is what he read. Things in real time aren't always what they seem. 

Maybe. It seemed like an errant throw but would like to see it again.

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9 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I will root for Flacco in first few games of the season, but after that if Wilson comes back and then somehow Flacco goes back in, I agree, I would be rooting for losses to better draft position. If in anyway Flacco is slated as the guy next season, its a disaster before it starts. But I would root for Flacco early season in hoping Wilson can come in at some point to a season not over before it starts

Any win with Flacco is a meaningless win that I will not be happy with.  I may not be watching, but my hope is that skill guys like Michael Carter, Breece Hall, Elijah Moore, and Garrett Wilson gain experience through reps, along with guys like Gardner or Jermaine Johnson on the defensive side of the ball.  Everyone else can go scratch, for all I care.  Flacco to Davis, Berrios, Conklin, Uzomah, etc. does nothing for me.  At all.  Zero.

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3 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Any win with Flacco is a meaningless win that I will not be happy with.  I may not be watching, but my hope is that skill guys like Michael Carter, Breece Hall, Elijah Moore, Garrett Wilson gain experience through reps, along with guys like Gardner or Jermaine Johnson on the defensive side of the ball.  Everyone else can go scratch, for all I care.  Flacco to Davis, Berrios, Conklin, Uzomah, etc. does nothing for me.  At all.  Zero.

Flacco rips apart the Ravens in the ultimate revenge game. Hands Zach the jets at 1-0, who then goes on to lead us to 6-2 of the first half. 

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17 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

While I vehemently disagree with 99% of the Flacco analysis, I can certainly forgive you for wanting what you want.  I just want to be treated the same way and have people understand that I will not be watching one snap of Flacco, nor will I be rooting for any victories with him under center, because I feel the opposite that you do, in the sense that I would trade a horrendous season or two in for the potential of 10-15 great years.  Maybe it’s the last bit of my youth hanging on to this idea that a year or two isn’t as long as it seems, but that’s just how I feel.  As of today, until we know more about Wilson’s timetable, I will not be watching Week 1 for the first time in all the years I’ve watched football.  I have no interest and I don’t have it in me to root for a washed up 37 year old back-up.  The last time I felt the way I did was 2017, with McCown, and I vividly remember how miserable I was watching that game.  I’ve made the tentative plans to go out and do something else, and I’m already thinking about what to do Week 2.

Truth is, I just can't bring myself to get excited about Wilson.  I'd probably feel differently if I thought there was a better shot of him turning it around.  But, and hopefully I'm wrong, or too early - I just don't feel good about his chances based on what I've seen.

So, I'm not as fired up about the future.  I don't know anything about the top QBs coming out, and I'm tired of investing in them in case maybe we get to draft one and maybe that one won't suck.  I think I'd rather just cheer on Sunday and then go back to life.

I mean this with no offense, but I do think there's a youthful component to it.  Because, there was certainly a time when I felt exactly that way.  It wasn't that long ago.  But, now I've got two young kids and I work pretty hard during the week (not so much today - ha) and watching football is a sacrifice.  One I'd certainly make time for if it wasn't so damn miserable.  But, how many Sundays in the last decade in front of a Jets game (at least on TV) were a better day than you could have had outside somewhere?  Apple picking and cider donuts, or Zach Wilson throwing 4 picks against the Pats?

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7 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Any win with Flacco is a meaningless win that I will not be happy with.  I may not be watching, but my hope is that skill guys like Michael Carter, Breece Hall, Elijah Moore, and Garrett Wilson gain experience through reps, along with guys like Gardner or Jermaine Johnson on the defensive side of the ball.  Everyone else can go scratch, for all I care.  Flacco to Davis, Berrios, Conklin, Uzomah, etc. does nothing for me.  At all.  Zero.

By the way, I felt this way when Darnold was playing.  How much was he holding back the other skill players.  It's worth noting, again, that these guys all looked better under Flacco, both last year, and the year before.

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21 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

DB was behind the receiver, he wasn’t in position to make a play, can’t agree there.  He didn’t take into account that the LB would jump the route and could make the play.  Hopefully he learned from it.  

He was behind... But from my viewing, had a pretty strong chance to get ahead of him by the time the ball got there.  He was moving in that direction, and is pretty much even when the ball is picked.

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11 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Any win with Flacco is a meaningless win that I will not be happy with.  I may not be watching, but my hope is that skill guys like Michael Carter, Breece Hall, Elijah Moore, and Garrett Wilson gain experience through reps, along with guys like Gardner or Jermaine Johnson on the defensive side of the ball.  Everyone else can go scratch, for all I care.  Flacco to Davis, Berrios, Conklin, Uzomah, etc. does nothing for me.  At all.  Zero.

Given that the roster is not really a strong playoff contender, I do understand your point. That said, I would love to see Wilson come in and have some meaningfull games. I think you really learn more about a lot about a young QB in meaningful games than you do in meaningless games

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11 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Any win with Flacco is a meaningless win that I will not be happy with.  I may not be watching, but my hope is that skill guys like Michael Carter, Breece Hall, Elijah Moore, and Garrett Wilson gain experience through reps, along with guys like Gardner or Jermaine Johnson on the defensive side of the ball.  Everyone else can go scratch, for all I care.  Flacco to Davis, Berrios, Conklin, Uzomah, etc. does nothing for me.  At all.  Zero.

Winning teaches young players how to win. 

Losing reinforces a culture of losing 

there's no such thing as a meaningless win 

PVO 

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Just now, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Given that the roster is not really a strong playoff contender, I do understand your point. That said, I would love to see Wilson come in and have some meaningfull games. I think you really learn more about a lot about a young QB in meaningful games than you do in meaningless games

If you gave this roster an above average QB, do we not think playoffs are possible?

Outside of LB, where are the big holes?

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4 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

If you gave this roster an above average QB, do we not think playoffs are possible?

Outside of LB, where are the big holes?

I'm having more and more questions about the coaching as time goes on, but I agree with you. Playoffs would be possible with a really good QB, at least on paper. 

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6 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

If you gave this roster an above average QB, do we not think playoffs are possible?

Outside of LB, where are the big holes?

I think we could get into the playoffs, yes, I don't think we are a threat to beat the Bills for the division and do any damage in the playoffs. now, if you get a big time QB in here, that is different.  

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16 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I'm having more and more questions about the coaching as time goes on, but I agree with you. Playoffs would be possible with a really good QB, at least on paper. 

I get that, I just don't think there's as big a differential between NFL coaches, on average, as there is between the talent.  Always felt this way.

13 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I think we could get into the playoffs, yes, I don't think we are a threat to beat the Bills for the division and do any damage in the playoffs. now, if you get a big time QB in here, that is different.  

Agreed.  Bills is probably out of the question.  But, yeah, I guess what my general thesis in the "Go Flacco" dept. is, I'm just don't think I have the appetite for another season watching a team that can't get started because of hapless QB play, even if it is in the name of "development."

5 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

If you gave most NFL rosters an above average QB they’re in playoff contention. 

I suppose that's true.  I guess I was thinking more along the lines of actually being able to do some damage.  We suddenly have a lot of weapons on offense, and there's a possibility we may have some guys who can get after the QB, which hasn't really been the case since Abraham.  I like the team - dislike the QB.

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Just now, ZachEY said:

Agreed.  Bills is probably out of the question.  But, yeah, I guess what my general thesis in the "Go Flacco" dept. is, I'm just don't think I have the appetite for another season watching a team that can't get started because of hapless QB play, even if it is in the name of "development."

I get that mentality, I really do. Personally, I am an all or nothing type personality in just about every aspect of my life. Go big or go home. The idea of getting into the playoffs with Fitzpatrick was somewhat fun, but I knew they weren't going anywhere. I had the same feeling with Pennington, they were in the running almost ever year, but outside of the first year I knew they weren't really a threat. I am probably older than you, and I want to see a jets SB win and celebrate it with my pops. I personally can deal with the hapless QB play from the standpoint of he either gets it at some point or we get a better draft pick. I can live with that. As I have gotten older I am able to not watch football on a sunday if I am not interested and be OK with it, and I am also fine with revolving my weekend around it if I am. But I completely get that perspective and respect it.

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29 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I'm having more and more questions about the coaching as time goes on, but I agree with you. Playoffs would be possible with a really good QB, at least on paper. 

This to me is an even bigger issue than Zach right now.  Another year of bad preparation, dumb penalties, lousy defense, and the Saleh kumbaya is over...

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3 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Ok, and what does that do for the long term future of the team?  You win a couple of games, pick around 15-17, and have no QB for the foreseeable future?  Then what?

The cardinals did the smart thing with Rosen. The jets are and 9ers are forcing the situation due to draft position and costs. You don’t have to pick top 5 to get a QB. Wilson is obtuse. That hasn’t changed since he got here and he was awful last week. He’s also soft and breaks easily. No touch, misses the easy throws. The jets will go back to Flacco after the offense looks good with him and terrible with Wilson. 

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