Fair assessment of the game

[rbstern]

8 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Im thrilled with the win, but that was about as unlikely a win as you will get in this league. Down 13 with 3 min or so to play and coming up with the win is not a recipe for winning consistently.

 

Why?  You see at least one of these every 2299 games. 

[nycdan]

55 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 

1. They should’ve cleared a path to let Chubb in (think NE letting Greene score in our last playoff win). As it is the only reason he got in is because of a missed tackle.

2. More evidence of the D not knowing the game situation, right before Davis’s pick. Defensive captain CJ Mosley didn’t even know the score & thought Davis was screwing up by sliding (see last paragraph here).

• So apparently if Mosley, Reed, and at least one other defender had been the one to pick off the pass, they’d have tried to run it back for a FG to try to break up the “tie” that wasn’t. With his initial run-back before sliding, could be Davis didn’t realize either.
• That whole last drive everyone on D has to be reminded: if you pick off a pass or pick up a fumble, hit the dirt.

 

I re-watched the last INT by Davis.  I don't think that was a case of him not knowing.  It looks to me like he took a few victory steps in a wide open section of the field, and slid as soon as a defender got close.  That's not something I think deserves a knock.  Adrenaline is a thing.  He got down way before there was even a hint of danger.

What did Mosley do?  I didn't see anything.  Was it part of an interview?

[rbstern]

Team still has a ways to go.  I thought the tackling was bad, and the o-line has to run block better.

In fairness, Cleveland has a lot of talent on the field on both sides of the ball.

Hopefully, with more experience and some swagger from accumulating wins, they'll clean up the low spots and get better.

[nj meadowlands]

9 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

Honorable mention: Max Mitchell: held his own, not perfect, but these reps are priceless for a player that might be our future right tackle.  Duane Brown backs up Fant when he returns. Also Ashtyn Davis, for a big play late; gets a lot of sh*t here, but that was a money play. 

Good post.  Especially like this point here.  Would be some serious, serious found money if Mitchell can be our RT for several years.

[nj meadowlands]

20 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Add Braden Mann to the list of stars.  Perfect onside kick.  Complete pass to convert on 3rd down.  And his punts were solid, including at least one I remember that bounced out on the 5-yard line. 

He was lambasted last week (fairly) so let's give him props this week.

Very true.  Game of his life.

[nycdan]

9 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

 

Now the Negatives:

1) Lamarcus Joyner: thank goodness Davis was on the field for that last play, because Joyner again this week was garbage.  Some awful arm tackling out there, the kind of stuff that gets most players benched.  I would start Davis over Joyner.  

 

Boy does Marcus Williams look like a missed opportunity right now.  Imagine him starting instead of Joyner last week.

[Sperm Edwards]

13 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I re-watched the last INT by Davis.  I don't think that was a case of him not knowing.  It looks to me like he took a few victory steps in a wide open section of the field, and slid as soon as a defender got close.  That's not something I think deserves a knock.  Adrenaline is a thing.  He got down way before there was even a hint of danger.

What did Mosley do?  I didn't see anything.  Was it part of an interview?

Yeah I’m 50-50 on Davis, but at least initially it looked like he was running it back before realizing (or someone else yelling “get down”). It could be he at least knew the score, but as an initial reflex didn’t immediately process that the game’s over if he goes down (without fumbling). It isn’t 100% obvious either way, but from the reporting, there were at least 3 players on defense who didn’t know (two of them were Mosley & Reed).

That’s on top of the prior defensive series with Reed not knowing the only chance the Jets had was to let Chubb/Cleveland score as quickly as possible.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34620174/new-york-jets-pull-2-touchdown-rally-final-2-minutes-help-cleveland-browns-gaffes

For all the good things he brings, someone needs to tell Reed when there are situations that differ from the norm (don’t try to make a stop, or don’t try to run it back if you pick it off). Same could’ve happened if it was 4th down & his job was to knock it down rather than risking a would-be pick bouncing off his hands into the arms of a player on offense.

[EM31]

A boatload of what seemed like potentially drive-killing penalties, some of which we overcame.  That needs to be cleaned up.

 

[Lith]

4 hours ago, Biggs said:

Props to Saleh going for the fake punt.   Big turnaround play that kept us in the game.  

Agreed.  The fake punt, going for the long FG, starting Flacco and his team playing the full 60 minutes.  Saleh made some moves that worked out.  It is okay to still question whether he is the right guy to lead this team long term, and still give him credit for making moves to help pull out a win.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

-I'm kinda not upset at the poor tackling in the run game - Chubb and Hunt are a bitch to bring down and the Browns have one of the better run games in the league. Still should be better but respect the opponent too. 

-I'm more upset at Jacoby f'n Brissett ripping us apart in the passing game. 22 of 27 passing?! You kidding me. I'm sure they were really keyed on the run game but man...guys were running wide open. Have to find some sort of balance. 

-Defense needs to blitz more. Sorry, but this pass rush is kinda over-rated. When they did blitz, they got home. I'd like to see Huff out there next week. 

-I'm not even killing Fant this week going up against the best in the league. And the oline only allowing 2 sacks overall...not too bad. 

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

 

Put me in the "meat head" category of liking the coach get emotional when the refs make bad calls.  

This can cause the ref to keep the flag in his pocket next time or it will even amount to a "make-up" penalty when the coach doesn't let his team get walked on.  

 

He can be emotional without forfeiting strategy. Go nuts while calling the timeout.

[TuscanyTile2]

The "fair assessment" of the game is that we should've lost it (had the Browns not fallen asleep).  Where the Jets go from here is the question.  Can we use this incredible turn of events to our advantage and get on a hot streak?  

[Claymation]

29 minutes ago, Lith said:

Agreed.  The fake punt, going for the long FG, starting Flacco and his team playing the full 60 minutes.  Saleh made some moves that worked out.  It is okay to still question whether he is the right guy to lead this team long term, and still give him credit for making moves to help pull out a win.

The jury is still out on the CS.

We faced two tough opponents, and played toe to toe with both of them. The Jets had quite a few miscues in the 1st game, they capitalized on the Browns' miscues in the 2nd game. 

If this young team keeps getting better, then the CS are doing their job. If not, time to find another HC and staff. It's that simple.

 

[Claymation]

7 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

The "fair assessment" of the game is that we should've lost it (had the Browns not fallen asleep).  Where the Jets go from here is the question.  Can we use this incredible turn of events to our advantage and get on a hot streak?  

Mistakes happen, teams need to take advantage of them.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Mistakes happen, teams need to take advantage of them.

Of course.  We were still incredibly lucky though. 

[JiFtheOracle]

I'll add.

- the tackling.  Chubb and Hunt are the best RB combo in the NFL and they're hard to tackle.  I thought they tackled pretty well last week vs. Lamar and company in bad weather, so we'll see how that goes moving forward but the Panthers IMO have a very good D and Hunt/Chubb made them look the same way last week.  Needs to be better, no doubt but I dont think it will be that bad week to week.

- the Browns gave the Jets the game more than the Jets won the game.  Hate this logic.  I'd argue the Jets gave the Ravens the game last week w/ mistakes, well this week, the script was flipped it just happened in a different fashion.

- a couple of underrated performers that I havent seen get some mention; Echols.  When Sauce went out, they attacked him and he had great coverage on a few plays.  Rankins, thought he played very well.  Kwon Alexander and Whitehead, feel like they had a few tackles where they saved from Chubb/Hunt from bust loose.

- disappointing performances; from what I saw, JFM was pushed around all game long.  Completely ineffective when in the game.  Joyner is bad and I dont understand why Pinnock isnt on this team.  Sauce/Carter, seemed like their communication was off a few drives, leaving either or out of position for easy completions. 

[Claymation]

16 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Of course.  We were still incredibly lucky though. 

Luck is the residue of design. - Branch Rickey

[peekskill68]

2 hours ago, Larz said:

Lawson is shot. Pff rating will be like a 35. He can’t run or change direction. All he has is a bull rush. 

Lawson has always been a 5-6 sack/yr guy which is why the Bengals let him walk.  Some people watching him routinely dismantle Becton in camp, thinking he's Von Miller II, are over estimating his game.

[TheClashFan]

A win is a win in the NFL, so that's cool and I was very happy yesterday with that.

Sure, the Browns choked it away...they really did, but the Jets were there, still playing hard, to take advantage of their luck. 

The D is a real concern.  Poor tackling and several breakdowns in the secondary.  Can they improve?  Can the OL continue to improve?  The interior should be fine, but can Fant and Mitchell stay healthy over time?  Can Brown come back and become a solid swing tackle b/c the Jets are going to need one?

 

[Claymation]

My favorite part of the onside kick is that Elijah Moore puts on his helmet and starts strolling out before the call is made. Boss move.

[BigB]

In the first 2 games I feel the refs have given ticky-tack penalties against the Jets offense. This was especially true on long runs and did not see any holding penalty at all. Those penalties put you behind the chains and tough to over come. The Ravens and Browns seem to have holding penalties not called if you watch the replays. If you wipe out those penalties the Jets sure look like the better team on the field.

[TuscanyTile2]

31 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Luck is the residue of design. - Branch Rickey

"Hope is not a strategy"

-Unknown (at least by me)

[Larz]

29 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Lawson has always been a 5-6 sack/yr guy which is why the Bengals let him walk.  Some people watching him routinely dismantle Becton in camp, thinking he's Von Miller II, are over estimating his game.

His speed rush is gone. No swim, no rip. He’s going to be targeted for screens , traps, reverses.  He’s a liability now 

[nycdan]

Yeah I’m 50-50 on Davis, but at least initially it looked like he was running it back before realizing (or someone else yelling “get down”). It could be he at least knew the score, but as an initial reflex didn’t immediately process that the game’s over if he goes down (without fumbling). It isn’t 100% obvious either way, but from the reporting, there were at least 3 players on defense who didn’t know (two of them were Mosley & Reed).
That’s on top of the prior defensive series with Reed not knowing the only chance the Jets had was to let Chubb/Cleveland score as quickly as possible.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34620174/new-york-jets-pull-2-touchdown-rally-final-2-minutes-help-cleveland-browns-gaffes
For all the good things he brings, someone needs to tell Reed when there are situations that differ from the norm (don’t try to make a stop, or don’t try to run it back if you pick it off). Same could’ve happened if it was 4th down & his job was to knock it down rather than risking a would-be pick bouncing off his hands into the arms of a player on offense.

Found it…

Linebacker C.J. Mosley: "Whew! There were a lot of emotions, enough to realize I didn’t even know we had won the game after the interception. There was a lot going on. ... When Ashtyn got the interception, it was like, 'No, we need more yards, don't go down.' I thought it was a tie game. I didn’t know they missed the extra point."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[doitny]

M. Harris made the punch on the punt. he should be benched.

i will also say what most of you either forgot or dont want to say..... Cooper owned Sause. and he looked bad on that TD where he was just standing around. the announcers said he was waiting for help inside but he just looked wrong there. like in the middle of nowhere.

yeah we got some things to clean up but we overcame a bad refed game. the fantom holding call on Fant erased a 24 yd gain by Carter and a 1st and goal at the 4 yd line. instead we had to make a 57 yd FG.

and that out of bounds call on the 1st drive where you can see grass between the foot and the white line is as bad as you can get. another killed drive.

2 fumbles and drop passes in 2 games for Conklin. i would bench him even if Uzumah isnt ready. there has to be punishment for things like this. he almost cost us the game.

but the positives....

Flacco is balling it. 

GW is a star....

Hall and Carter are a good 1-2 punch at RB.

its important for young teams to find a way to win. and we did. we were in the game in the 4th and thats why we won. if we go into the 4th losing big as we usually do we dont win.

 

 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Found it…

Linebacker C.J. Mosley: "Whew! There were a lot of emotions, enough to realize I didn’t even know we had won the game after the interception. There was a lot going on. ... When Ashtyn got the interception, it was like, 'No, we need more yards, don't go down.' I thought it was a tie game. I didn’t know they missed the extra point."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah I only saw it in an article where the author mentioned it (the link I'd posted), but there's no reason to believe the author was flat-out lying. 

The way I see it is it's a thing they need to correct for the next time situations like this come up; that it's not enough to merely practice it, but there's no harm in reminding them in the huddle just in case there's one guy who isn't on the same page & isn't going to speak up to say so.

My preference for these learning moments to correct errors is this way from yesterday: win the game despite those errors. 

Luckily the Browns' errors were greater. I'm in favor of that lol.

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Larz said:

Lawson is shot. Pff rating will be like a 35. He can’t run or change direction. All he has is a bull rush. 

DEFENSE:
John Franklin-Myers - 78.6
Sheldon Rankins - 73.0
Michael Carter II - 72.6
Carl Lawson - 68.1
Michael Clemson - 66.1

[Long Island Leprechaun]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Of course.  We were still incredibly lucky though. 

To paraphrase Napoleon, "Genius is the ability to take advantage of chance." 

Cleveland's secondary let down at the end and played soft, but the Jets quickly capitalized on that weakness and made them pay for it. That's the sign of a rising team that doesn't quit. And Flacco executed when he had to. That's not luck either. The on-side kick was executed beautifully... luck? guys did their job and kept the ball in bounds and directed to their own players, who jumped on it. Garrett finding space and snatching Flacco's pass with authority to waltz into the endzone... luck? The two pieces of luck we had were Chubb not going down and the missed Cleveland extra point. I'll give you that.

[BroadwayRay]

6 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

DJ Reed is killing it! Wilson is amazing as well. 
 

JJ doesn’t seem like a top 10 Pick and prob

why he fell to us. The o line really needs to figure itself out sooner then later. Great win today tho. Cant take that away. Amazing win 

JJ has definitely been bad. He can't get off his blocks and he's struggling trying to set the edge. But I'm not worried -- yet. Rookie defensive lineman not named Aaron Donald almost always look bad their first year or two (Max Crosby is a prime example). It's one of those positions, like TE, where it just takes time.

The most troubling issue I saw in yesterday's game was the Jets' safeties. They are absolutely terrible -- the worst in the league possibly. And then there's Quincy Williams, who is also terrible. When the Browns RBs were sweeping around the end of the line for 10+ gains it was those bumbling idiots that were usually responsible. I think the Quincy Williams experiment has to come to a merciful end.

[#27TheDominator]

I will leave my game thoughts here since people have hit on so many...

Joyner was bad.

This is a parity league.  Just a few plays make a big difference.  If they overturned that call on the first drive and we continued moving the ball, maybe we don't go down 13.  The Browns were beneficiaries of a few questionable calls IMO and I am not usually one to say that.  

Tons of mistakes and drops.  Everybody is sucking off Wilson and he had a heck of a game, but he had a blatant drop that killed the drive before last.  The one after the D got them back the ball, knocking the Browns out of FG range.  It will be awesome watching him come into his own.  I bet that Wilson getting fed contributed to Denzel Ward sh*tting the bed on Davis.

Conklin?  He was the huge upgrade?  Another fumble and obvious drop.   Ruckert also had what I consider a drop.  I know a lot of people consider anything you can touch a drop, but these and the one Johnson missed in the middle of the field on the last drive were legit obvious drops. 

I think Carter should keep getting more reps than Hall for the time being.  Not sure why Johnson was getting run, but presumably at least one of the other two was failing on blitz pickup.  Like Wilson, Hall seems to be growing into the role.

Jermaine Johnson completely failed to set the edge at least once.  He has not flashed.  I am not surprised.  

Not sure who was at fault for the blown coverage.  Sauce handed the guy off inside, but Whitehead had already rushed up to cover the short out.  One of them ****ed up.  Pass rush was worse and had trouble with the QB running, but presumably they were concentrating on stopping the run.  @Larz analysis of Lawson is pretty accurate, but I am not sure his PFF rating will be so low.  I think that is what he always was.  It isn't necessarily horrible for this D.  Clemons will probably be the same. 

A Jeff Smith sighting!  Woo hoo!

 

[MARTIN]

I was as happy as anyone with the win, and in the back of my mind am cautiously optimistic about the impact this game will have on the team... but lets refer back to coach saleh after week one talking about winning vs losing games. 

The browns lost this game. Anyone who watched it after the emotion has settled down could conclude that the Browns blew this game more than the Jet's won it. Not trying to take away from the fact that the players for the Jets made plays when called upon... but those were all gifts. From multiple plays hunt went OB instead of going down IB, to Stephanski not telling Chubb to stay in, to the blown coverage by an otherwise great young CB... the browns made more mistakes in the last 5:00 of the game than they could afford. Any team in a position to win a game at north of 99% losing takes a number of errors to cause the meltdown.  

Point being, lets not go crazy. Jets had no business winning this game. There formula/game up until that point still left ALOT to be desired. The amount of stupid small mistakes this team made in the game were baffling. 

I say that to say this. This is kinda what reasonable fans expected... meh with some NICE flashes from the new toys early in the season. Wilson does look like a (star)ter, better than CD at this point at getting open. That is what we need. Dudes getting open. Tired of Zach throwing lasers to corey davis with a DB draped on him to not make the play. I like corey, good player, but not a great starter. 

I am optimistic that this win builds confidence and helps us become a better team, but don't be surprised with another head scratcher of a game this week, when burrow gets his first W and takes all jets fans down a peg or two. 

Crazy game, excited to see what zach can do when he returns. I will also say, this game from GW, does give me confidence that this will all work out with wilson. It means SOOO much to a young QB to have a guy who can get OPEN OPEN.

I am 60/40 leaning toward us being good, wilson being the franchise QB and us winning big games over the next few years. Sparks this year, flames firing out the sides by 2023. Champions by 2024.

[Trotter]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Of course.  We were still incredibly lucky though. 

i would typically agree with this but I am not sure i would go with luck.

Davis wide open is a blown coverage but Flacco still has to put the ball on him and davis has to catch it - but to be fair - let's go with  luck because of the coverage.

The onside kick was not a weird bounce or the guy just muffing the play - it was perfectly executed and placed.

The drive to score the winning td did not involve PI or other questionable call - it was QB/receiver execution that was perfectly timed.

Finally - it ended on an int - not a missed fg or some other type of play.

 

I do get where you are going with lucky - but other than the davis play which I am on the fence about - I don't see it that way.

Regardless of how we see it - a win is a win and let''s hope we continue it this Sunday. 

[Jetlife33]

The OLINE on those last 2 scoring drives held up so well and that’s with the browns knowing 100% a pass play is coming. 

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, Jetlife33 said:

The OLINE on those last 2 scoring drives held up so well and that’s with the browns knowing 100% a pass play is coming. 

Even on the strip sack, Mitchell was riding him around the pocket, but just didn't stay into him hard enough to keep him from reaching out.  He got beat, but it wasn't like one of those blow up free runs at the QB.

[varjet]

2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

 

- disappointing performances; from what I saw, JFM was pushed around all game long.  Completely ineffective when in the game.  Joyner is bad and I dont understand why Pinnock isnt on this team.  Sauce/Carter, seemed like their communication was off a few drives, leaving either or out of position for easy completions. 

I am a conspiracy theorist:

• Joyner was guaranteed money this year.
• A. Davis was a high 3rd round draft pick with athletic upside.
• The Jets thought they could put Pinnock on the PS.  
• We will lose at least one game from FS play.  Maybe Ravens was one of them.