The Debbie Downer Train of doubt and excuses

[Lith]

I just posted this in another thread.  Zach's passing chart against GB.  Two throws the entire game more than 15 yards past the line of scrimmage.  Zach may have struggled, but we did not do anything to challenge the Packers defense and make them defend the entire field.  If we are not going to stress the dfeense and just let them defend a 10 yard field, its going to be tough to get anything going. 

I know Denver has a really good defense, but we need to test them early to try to open things up. 

[More Cowbell]

11 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Manning broke is neck for crying out loud.  

His first season with Denver he passed for 4659 yards and 37 TDs with a 68% completion percentage. His second season he passed for a career best 5477 yards and 55 TDs  ( also a career best) with a 68% completion percentage.

Pretty good so far for a guy with a broken neck

His last season he passed for 2249 yards and 9 TDs with his second lowest completion percentage  at 60. Only his rookie season was lower.

He got old. Father time is undefeated. 

[jetstream23]

6 hours ago, slats said:

What’s also funny is that you seem to be taking it more personally than the people who the OP was probably targeting. You’re seeing more of the dreaded “homers” the last couple weeks because the primary trolls of the past year or more have been quieted by a three game winning streak. Although they did creep back in a bit with Zach’s 110 yard performance, as expected. 
 
Don’t worry, though, the next loss will establish the equilibrium that you’re more used to, lol. 

The premise of this thread was simple.  There's always a cloud or two on even the sunniest of days.  Stop pointing at them for a second.  Enjoy the weather.  Times are good for the first time in a very, very long time.  This wasn't a "**** you" to anyone, as @Warfish said (I didn't).

Yeah, the Christmas lights look great, but...

 

[Irish Jet]

9 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

His first season with Denver he passed for 4659 yards and 37 TDs with a 68% completion percentage. His second season he passed for a career best 5477 yards and 55 TDs  ( also a career best) with a 68% completion percentage.

Pretty good so far for a guy with a broken neck

His last season he passed for 2249 yards and 9 TDs with his second lowest completion percentage  at 60. Only his rookie season was lower.

He got old. Father time is undefeated. 

He Got Help

 

[jetstream23]

2 hours ago, ZachEY said:

Is this from Jaws too?

two

 

[T0mShane]

22 minutes ago, Lith said:

I just posted this in another thread.  Zach's passing chart against GB.  Two throws the entire game more than 15 yards past the line of scrimmage.  Zach may have struggled, but we did not do anything to challenge the Packers defense and make them defend the entire field.  If we are not going to stress the dfeense and just let them defend a 10 yard field, its going to be tough to get anything going. 

I know Denver has a really good defense, but we need to test them early to try to open things up. 

To add context to this: see all those short passes? He held the ball for an average of 3.12 seconds to make those tiny passes in this game, which is why so many analytics-based analysts are Zach Wilson skeptics. He currently ranks fourth in the league in time to throw, behind Justin Fields, Daniel Jones, and Lamar, who all have extensive QB run packages built into their playbooks. We just watched Russell Wilson hold the ball for an eternity last night, and he’s all the way down at #11 on this list. No bueno

[Warfish]

7 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

The premise of this threat was simple.

Freudian slip, lol?

7 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

There's always a cloud or two on even the sunniest of days.  Stop pointing at them for a second.  Enjoy the weather.  Times are good for the first time in a very, very long time.

Like I said, the biggest example I see of pointing at clouds is this very thread, and other "hater" callout/gatekeeping threads of a similar vein.  

[jetstream23]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Freudian slip, lol?

Like I said, the biggest example I see of pointing at clouds is this very thread, and other "hater" callout/gatekeeping threads of a similar vein.  

 

Come up to my face and say that, and I'll threaden you again! ?

 

[jetstream23]

30 minutes ago, Lith said:

I just posted this in another thread.  Zach's passing chart against GB.  Two throws the entire game more than 15 yards past the line of scrimmage.  Zach may have struggled, but we did not do anything to challenge the Packers defense and make them defend the entire field.  If we are not going to stress the dfeense and just let them defend a 10 yard field, its going to be tough to get anything going. 

I know Denver has a really good defense, but we need to test them early to try to open things up. 

 

Doesn't this show LaFleur is growing as an OC?  The Jets did exactly what they needed to do to win.  LaFleur didn't set the QB back on 7 step drops to get killed in a game the Jets effectively managed from start to finish.  They rushed the ball, they defended, they didn't need to pass too much.

Should print this and hang it next to the Pass Chart from Joe Namath's 4th Quarter vs. Baltimore (0 passes attempted).  Maybe even put up Elijah Moore's stats from GB next to Don Maynard's 0 receptions from Super Bowl III.

Glad both games were W's.

 

[BCJet]

For the Zach detractors, I wanted to see what other QBs who have improved every year did in their second years.

• Josh Allen went 10-6 (he only played one quarter of the last game so im not counting that).  He had under 200 yards in 3 pf their wins, and was held under 200 6 times.  He didnt have a single 300 yard game. 
• Russel Wilson went 13-3 and threw for under 200 in 5 games ( 3 of which were wins).  He had 1 300+ yard game. 
• In Ben's second season he played 9 regular season games going 7-2 and then winning a SB.  He was under 200 in 4 of the regular season wins and in the AFC championship.  He had 1 300 yard game all season.

I get that we all want to see zach make a huge leap, but it takes time to develop these guys.  We were running the ball down GB's throat and LaFleur is starting to establish an identity with this offense.  It is exactly what SF does offensively and while I would love to see a couple 300 3 td games from zach, I want to win and I dont want to wreck him as a player.  He is learning to take what the defense gives, not turn the ball over and somehow we are winning - to me that is how you develop a QB and a team.  

[LSJF]

50 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

 

All I am saying is saying Zach is fine means you are ok with his up and down play to date. I don't  agree. He needs to be more consistent.  He doesn't  have to be great, he just has to stop playing stupid. 

I'm fine with his progress, i love the mobility and 4th qtr comeback possibilities, his arm and his reads...Playing stupid? i'm not sure, he's progressing, not just chucking interceptions... Anyway, i'm bullish on Zach's success...He's got room to grow... three and Zero w Zachster  ... 

[More Cowbell]

18 minutes ago, LSJF said:

I'm fine with his progress, i love the mobility and 4th qtr comeback possibilities, his arm and his reads...Playing stupid? i'm not sure, he's progressing, not just chucking interceptions... Anyway, i'm bullish on Zach's success...He's got room to grow... three and Zero w Zachster  ... 

If he holds the ball against Denver the way he did against GB, we may be playing Flacco with Zach on IR. That is what I mean by stupid. We all agree Zach has gotten better since last season. God knows he couldn't  get worse. 

[TommyT]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

the "debbie downers" are the way we are because this type of hope is only gonna get you hurt 

sooner or later someone's going to stack the box and make the Jets pass to keep pace

you can't go into the locker room scoring 3 points in the first half and assume it's always going to work out 

 

Have faith my friend

[Hex]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

His first season with Denver he passed for 4659 yards and 37 TDs with a 68% completion percentage. His second season he passed for a career best 5477 yards and 55 TDs  ( also a career best) with a 68% completion percentage.

Pretty good so far for a guy with a broken neck

His last season he passed for 2249 yards and 9 TDs with his second lowest completion percentage  at 60. Only his rookie season was lower.

He got old. Father time is undefeated. 

And they still won the SB

[rtnelson]

Averaging 150 yards passing,150 yards rushing and 28 points a game will lead to a lot of victories.

We will get to see what it looks like when we are forced to pass 40+ times.  Because so far when the Jets have needed drives Zach has delivered.

[HighPitch]

7 hours ago, Warfish said:

Freudian slip, lol?

Like I said, the biggest example I see of pointing at clouds is this very thread, and other "hater" callout/gatekeeping threads of a similar vein.  

I want to apologize to u for busting your chops real hard lately. Im gonna stop

 

but seriously js23s comments were reasonable. Things are better, its a nice thing to experience for a change. You shouldnt be so weirded out by those that make comments about naysayers

i will submit that “ culture change”, real or not, is being emphasized in florham park for the players. Maybe fans also need a culture change?!

[jgb]

On 10/18/2022 at 2:50 AM, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Hi, I’m a Zach Wilson hater. Yes I am enjoying the win because wins have been few and far between for my entire 34 years of existence.

But you are confusing things a little bit. no one here is hoping that he is a bust. No one. Some of us just have a feeling that he will. A game in which we win but he throws for 110 yards isn’t going to stop the criticisms.

There are definitely things that should concern everyone. His completion percentage needs to be better. He needs to learn to put some touch on certain passes. No need to throw lasers to a rb 5 yards away. His ball placement can be better at times as well.

Yes I’d say he has improved in some areas from last year. He’s definitely cutting down the turnovers and I love the way he moves around in the pocket. He has a rocket for an arm and no doubt he has flashed his potential. But they are just flashes. He needs to be more consistent and do it for a complete game.  Im still waiting for a 300 yard performance or a game with 3 tds.

Right now it looks like we have a good team with a below average qb. Kind of like the Sanchez days. Trust me I would love to be proven wrong. I hope he can become a franchise qb. But from what I’ve seen so far I’m just not sure that he is.

Mouth-breathing hateR. Ask your mom to bring you some meatloaf down in the basement, troll.

On 10/18/2022 at 3:07 AM, T0mShane said:

You KNOW I’ve never processed an emotion, pally.

Is scorn an emotion?

On 10/18/2022 at 1:56 AM, FidelioJet said:

This is the best case scenario for many here.

These are the people that truly want Zach Wilson to fail (and it's becoming clear there are more than I thought)

Those people get to be excited about a win - and still complain about Zach Wilson, while holding out that last little bit of hope that he's still a bust.

I noticed at least 3 of the classic Anti-Zach crew that haven't been on this board for the past two weeks (when Zach played well and we won) that are now back and in their glory...declaring he hasn't gotten better from last year and is a bust.  Comical, yet sad.

I really do feel bad for these people...

Why would a Jets fan want the Jets QB to fail. This charge is bandied about but I’ve never seen anyone say that. It’s all based on armchair psychology of people TELLING skeptics what they “really” feel. Straw manning at its finest.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Why would a Jets fan want the Jets QB to fail. This charge is bandied about but I’ve never seen anyone say that. It’s all based on armchair psychology of people TELLING skeptics what they “really” feel. Straw manning at its finest.

Ask Fidelio to point to one post of someone wanting Zach to fail.  See what happens!

[southparkcpa]

On 10/17/2022 at 6:54 PM, Hex said:

Yeah the Jets are winning, but Zach sucks. 110 yards is never enough to win games.

Imagine if Zach plays better.  He , IMO, has not hit his stride yet. He has shown signs. But if he played near his ability 1st half GB, that game would have been over 2nd QTR.

This team has talent and with a solid Zach, we can see 2009-2010 type success.

 

 

 

[Irish Jet]

On 10/18/2022 at 12:56 AM, FidelioJet said:

This is the best case scenario for many here.

These are the people that truly want Zach Wilson to fail (and it's becoming clear there are more than I thought)

Those people get to be excited about a win - and still complain about Zach Wilson, while holding out that last little bit of hope that he's still a bust.

I noticed at least 3 of the classic Anti-Zach crew that haven't been on this board for the past two weeks (when Zach played well and we won) that are now back and in their glory...declaring he hasn't gotten better from last year and is a bust.  Comical, yet sad.

I really do feel bad for these people...

Name and shame buddy. 

[UnknownJetFan]

On 10/17/2022 at 6:54 PM, Hex said:

Yeah the Jets are winning, but Zach sucks. 110 yards is never enough to win games.

It is when your D and running game pulverizes teams.

[UnknownJetFan]

On 10/17/2022 at 7:06 PM, jetstream23 said:

 

The amazing thing is that the Jets are turning into a team that can win games with just average QB play.  That's a very, very good thing.

I think Zach will turn out to be a better than average QB.  That might be enough to go very far, similar to the 49ers getting to a Super Bowl and then a NFC Championship Game with Garropolo, or even our own Jets with Sanchez years ago.  At this point the Jets are very much looking like a Minnesota Vikings type team.  If Zach can become a better QB than Cousins over the next couple years the Jets could be a team competing for the playoffs consistently every year.

Everyone has to realize that part of the reason that teams can’t fully stack the box to shutdown our run is that they have to honor Zack and the passing game since they know that will burn them if they don’t pay enough attention to it.

[Biggs]

15 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

His first season with Denver he passed for 4659 yards and 37 TDs with a 68% completion percentage. His second season he passed for a career best 5477 yards and 55 TDs  ( also a career best) with a 68% completion percentage.

Pretty good so far for a guy with a broken neck

His last season he passed for 2249 yards and 9 TDs with his second lowest completion percentage  at 60. Only his rookie season was lower.

He got old. Father time is undefeated. 

Interestingly Payton won his second career SB in that last season when he was clearly done as an elite NFL QB.

 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, ZachEY said:

Ask Fidelio to point to one post of someone wanting Zach to fail.  See what happens!

[More Cowbell]

38 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Interestingly Payton won his second career SB in that last season when he was clearly done as an elite NFL QB.

 

Again, are you going to credit Peyton with that win? I am pretty sure the defense won that game. 

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Again, are you going to credit Peyton with that win? I am pretty sure the defense won that game. 

Wins/losses are only a QB stat when they are Jets wins and the QB is a highly-drafted player.

[Jetsfan80]

Zach Wilson fanboys care wayyyyyy too much what us haterzzz think.  There's like 12 of us that don't believe in the kid at all.  Who cares?  Live your lives.  If Zach truly is the man, it will become clear and that will shut us up real quick, no?

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Zach Wilson fanboys care wayyyyyy too much what us haterzzz think.  There's like 12 of us that don't believe in the kid at all.  Who cares?  Live your lives.  If Zach truly is the man, it will become clear and that will shut us up real quick, no?

“But the hatrZzz care more about what happens on the Internet than in the games,” as they rush to the forums to call out Haterz after one of the biggest Jets wins in the last decade.

[Biggs]

2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Again, are you going to credit Peyton with that win? I am pretty sure the defense won that game. 

Yes I do credit Mannig's calm leadership as complimentary to that team and a big reason that team won a SB.  They don't sniff the SB with Osweiler in a big spot against NE in the AFC championship game.  It's exactly why the HC who benched Manning during the season went back to him for the playoffs. 

 

[ZachEY]

56 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Zach Wilson fanboys care wayyyyyy too much what us haterzzz think.  There's like 12 of us that don't believe in the kid at all.  Who cares?  Live your lives.  If Zach truly is the man, it will become clear and that will shut us up real quick, no?

Honestly, it's because personal attacks are now mod-sanctioned as long as it's coming from a pro-Jets point of view.

[ZachEY]

51 minutes ago, jgb said:

“But the hatrZzz care more about what happens on the Internet than in the games,” as they rush to the forums to call out Haterz after one of the biggest Jets wins in the last decade.

The irony is I always saw being down on one player as less of a hater than blaming the entire team for that one player's performance.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, ZachEY said:

Honestly, it's because personal attacks are no mod-sanctioned as long as it's coming from a pro-Jets point of view.

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

The irony is I always saw being down on one player as less of a hater than blaming the entire team for that one player's performance.

At least we’ve moved away from “no one has a chance behind this OL” and smoothly transitioned into the “actually, all the receivers are bad” phase to explain why the QB is completing 56%  of his passes. 

[greenwichjetfan]

1 minute ago, ZachEY said:

The irony is I always saw being down on one player as less of a hater than blaming the entire team for that one player's performance.

This.

I've gone above and beyond to call this one of the best assembled Jets teams of my lifetime. I have actual love for Breece and Kwon and Sauce. I've admitted I was wrong about JD after his initial draft. Yet, I've been labeled a hater because I feel like Zach isn't progressing the way he should be and my concern is that over the long run, it's going to hold back this awesome team.

Really makes you think about who the Jets fans are and who the Zach fanboys are.

[Biggs]

5 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Honestly, it's because personal attacks are now mod-sanctioned as long as it's coming from a pro-Jets point of view.

I'm not really Biggs.  Biggs isn't thin skinned.