Most important part of what Saleh said yesterday

[AFJF]

This is JMO of course, but hearing Saleh give an answer that wasn't the usual rehearsed coach BS was interesting.

Paraphrasing, but he talked about how the words "time" and "development" are like oil and water in today's NFL.  Not every guy develops at the same rate and expecting everyone to be a one or two year wonder isn't realistic.  He said everyone wants you to develop players, but they don't want to allow the time to do it.

Made me wonder if he really does want to give Zach more time to learn.

Just look at the QB they're playing this week.  A lot of us said the same things about Geno that we're now saying about Zach.  Now I'm not saying we give Zach six or seven years.  But is 3 or 4 the worst idea in the world?

 

Saleh Comments Regarding Zach Could Offer Peek at Coaches Thought Process Moving Forward - JetNation.com (NY Jets Blog & Forum)

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by AFJF

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

I mean, it's true. Especially for the QB position. And especially a top 3 overall pick. You expect that player to be pretty good right away. 

With Zach, I think they're past that point of trying, that's something that has to be committed to from the very beginning. They would either have to fully commit to him being QB3 the entire year next season and being inactive the entire season and announce that from day 1. "Listen guys, we're sticking with Zach but he will be inactive the entire year and we'll be moving forward with MW or whoever as our starer" 

But I think it's past that. If they get a decent offer for a trade, they'll jump on that and just apply what they've learned from this whole thing on the next situation they encounter.

 

 

[AFJF]

2 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

I mean, it's true. Especially for the QB position. And especially a top 3 overall pick. You expect that player to be pretty good right away. 

With Zach, I think they're past that point of trying, that's something that has to be committed to from the very beginning. They would either have to fully commit to him being QB3 the entire year next season and being inactive the entire season and announce that from day 1. "Listen guys, we're sticking with Zach but he will be inactive the entire year and we'll be moving forward with MW or whoever as our starer" 

But I think it's past that. If they get a decent offer for a trade, they'll jump on that and just apply what they've learned from this whole thing on the next situation they encounter.

 

 

Only part I disagree with is the trade aspect.  I may be wrong, but I can't see anyone offering more than a day 3 pick.  For that little, just keep working with him if you believe he can be salvaged.

If they think he's poop...move on and hope you're not wrong.

[undertow]

8 minutes ago, AFJF said:

This is JMO of course, but hearing Saleh give an answer that wasn't the usual rehearsed coach BS was interesting.

Paraphrasing, but he talked about how the words "time" and "development" are like oil and water in today's NFL.  Not every guy develops at the same rate and expecting everyone to be a one or two year wonder isn't realistic.  He said everyone wants you to develop players, but they don't want to allow the time to do it.

Made me wonder if he really does want to give Zach more time to learn.

Just look at the QB they're playing this week.  A lot of us said the same things about Geno that we're now saying about Zach.  Now I'm not saying we give Zach six or seven years.  But is 3 or 4 the worst idea in the world?

 

Saleh Comments Regarding Zach Could Offer Peek at Coaches Thought Process Moving Forward - JetNation.com (NY Jets Blog & Forum)

 

They can develop players as long as they want just as long as it's not at the expense of 50 other guys on the team and at the expense of season ticket holders who pay thousands to sit in the rain and watch Wilson throw the ball into the ground for two years.  Acting like fans weren't patient with the epic level of disaster Zach WIlson was is comical most fans were protecting the kid a month ago.

[Larz]

What choice do they have ? Cut him and take a cap charge of 11 million and 20 million in dead money?  
 

That 30 million pays for Fant, McGovern and Quinnen. You can’t lose 3 starters to spite Zach 

[Darnold's Forehead]

It would be fine if he was already deemed a project and the goal was to develop him into a quality back-up or low end starter.  But the goal (at least initially) was for him to be a franchise QB.  That means the goal is to develop him from what he is now (a hot mess) to a FQB?  That seems impossible to me, especially given this inexperience staff.

So you develop him for 2 more years and most likely he comes out and is an average QB at best.  The return on investment at this point is not worth it imo.

[jgb]

17 minutes ago, AFJF said:

This is JMO of course, but hearing Saleh give an answer that wasn't the usual rehearsed coach BS was interesting.

Paraphrasing, but he talked about how the words "time" and "development" are like oil and water in today's NFL.  Not every guy develops at the same rate and expecting everyone to be a one or two year wonder isn't realistic.  He said everyone wants you to develop players, but they don't want to allow the time to do it.

Made me wonder if he really does want to give Zach more time to learn.

Just look at the QB they're playing this week.  A lot of us said the same things about Geno that we're now saying about Zach.  Now I'm not saying we give Zach six or seven years.  But is 3 or 4 the worst idea in the world?

 

Saleh Comments Regarding Zach Could Offer Peek at Coaches Thought Process Moving Forward - JetNation.com (NY Jets Blog & Forum)

 

For me the most important thing he said was “he still has a future here.” At the press conference at the last reset, he said “he is still our future.”

 

[KRL]

As popular as it is to trash Wilson and to declare that he's done here
I believe Saleh and expect him to get another shot in 2023.  Thankfully
we aren't DEN and haven't committed a ton of $$$ to the QB spot.  I 
expect White to be re-signed (2 yrs / 12-15 million) and a training
camp battle between he and Wilson

[Rangers9]

Saleh said all the right things but he talked about Zach being in a dark place and being able to climb out of this abyss. It’s not what you expect to hear from an org that still believes in a player. Plus deactivating him is a pretty strong action. Sounds like they’ve given up on him I can’t see them bringing him back to be third string or developmental in his 3rd season. 

[Sonny Werblin]

developing zach only works if you somehow fenagle a second reasonably priced contract out of it. 

[y2k8]

14 minutes ago, undertow said:

They can develop players as long as they want just as long as it's not at the expense of 50 other guys on the team and at the expense of season ticket holders who pay thousands to sit in the rain and watch Wilson throw the ball into the ground for two years.  Acting like fans weren't patient with the epic level of disaster Zach WIlson was is comical most fans were protecting the kid a month ago.

This.

His own teammates turned on him before the majority of the fanbase.

 

[JetPotato]

I don't want to hear anything more about Zach's "continued development"

His development is moving in reverse. He is bad and gets worse with every hit he takes, every interception he throws, every read he misses and every receiver he pisses off.

There's been no development. None. There never will be. He's dumb and he's emotionally fragile.

NEXT.

[y2k8]

17 minutes ago, Larz said:

What choice do they have ? Cut him and take a cap charge of 11 million and 20 million in dead money?  
 

That 30 million pays for Fant, McGovern and Quinnen. You can’t lose 3 starters to spite Zach 

I think best case scenario is that he flashes a bit during preason games and some team with an injury situation at QB comes a knockin. You can't trade him for nothing and you certainly can't just release him.

He's a distressed asset. You just hold it for now.

[Larz]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Saleh said all the right things but he talked about Zach being in a dark place and being able to climb out of this abyss. It’s not what you expect to hear from an org that still believes in a player. Plus deactivating him is a pretty strong action. Sounds like they’ve given up on him I can’t see them bringing him back to be third string or developmental in his 3rd season. 

I personally was flabbergasted that he spoke about that. Combined with him saying that when he told zach he was being demoted that zach said “ why me?”   He’s damaging zach repeatedly. These are unforced errors.  Can you imagine belicheat talking about Mac jones like this?  He’s putting things out there that make it harder for Zach, then says Zach is the future.  
 

he actually said that the QB goes to dark places I mean you can’t make this sh*t up. 
 

if Zach’s contact wasn’t guaranteed I’d say he’s trying to kick the can to the off-season and then they’ll just cut him but it’s fully guaranteed so it’s much more complicated than that. 

[derp]

I appreciate the commitment to development younger players that Saleh has pretty consistently shown. Played a ton of young guys the past couple of years. And seems he understands not everyone develops the same way. I also appreciate that he's not completely reactionary - this is a sport full of small sample sizes and lending too much weight to those small samples can really get you in trouble.

I don't know how much the coaching staff thought they could play Wilson (or whatever QB got drafted) off the bat versus Douglas felt those guys were prepared enough to play off the bat. But I didn't think Wilson (or any QB they drafted in the first if that's the route they went in 2021) should have played right away. The roster was bad and all those guys had flaws. It was a very obvious mistake not to bring in a veteran, at the very least to make the rookie win the job and aid in the installation of a new system, I just don't know whose mistake it was.

Anyway, this is kind of where the franchise is. I don't think they need to trade Wilson and they can't cut him, but if he hangs around he's got to be inactive every game next year - barring of course meaningful change from where he was at this year under the same circumstances. They can revisit him in 2024. At this point his fifth year option almost can't possibly get picked up, so it's two more years unless they find a willing trade partner.

In the meantime they both need to find a veteran who can keep this roster competitive next year and they need to do serious thinking about how they want to go about acquiring a long-term answer at the position. Hopefully Douglas takes a long look in the mirror and considers why he missed so badly on Wilson, kind of like how they looked at adding skill talent instead of just building the OL. He loves the big arms so you know he's going to be thinking about Anthony Richardson and Will Levis.

Best case is honestly doing what Philly did with Hurts, if White gives them enough of a peek these two weeks for him to be their guy. Commit to him as a starter for 2023, have a capable backup in place, keep building up the roster, and acquire 2024 draft capital in case you want to go get a QB that class. That way you've either built around your long term QB or you've got the capital to get one and a good situation to put him into.

Obviously the OL needs to continue to be fixed. They can certainly add at WR as well, a running mate for Garrett Wilson. I'd also love to see them double down on the idea of being explosive in the backfield. Take Devon Achane day two or early day three so all of big plays ability isn't in the Breece Hall basket. I think big play RB's are such a cheap and easy way to add explosiveness to the offense. No need to stop at Hall.

[MysticalJet2]

It’s true; however, the amount of $ they make these days forces the expectations to have immediate results.  Poor business decision to develop a player for 4 years that’s drafted top 10 … or even the first round.

[CanadienJetsFan]

Take everything the HC says with a huge grain of salt. 
Remember that he’s the team’s spokesperson, kind of like the White House press secretary. Every word he says has been prepped and blessed by JD.

The lack of progress with Zach has been a disaster of a situation, and they are dealing with it the best way possible, which is to kick the problem down the road.

If guys like Mitchell Trubisky could get a second chance with some other team, so can Zach. Will that happen during the off-season? We’ll see.

[jgb]

14 hours ago, KRL said:

As popular as it is to trash Wilson and to declare that he's done here
I believe Saleh and expect him to get another shot in 2023.  Thankfully
we aren't DEN and haven't committed a ton of $$$ to the QB spot.  I 
expect White to be re-signed (2 yrs / 12-15 million) and a training
camp battle between he and Wilson

It’s only popular now. Those who said it before were pariahs with all sorts of unacceptable invective thrown our way.

[drsamuel84]

It would be pretty unorthodox to do but if MW plays well the next two weeks I wonder if they would consider franchising him, bringing in a real solid backup like a Teddy Bridgewater and sort of giving ZW a red shirt year to just sit on the sidelines and develop.  I think within the organization there is still some belief he can be a good QB but right now he's dragging down a potential playoff team.

[jgb]

30 minutes ago, undertow said:

They can develop players as long as they want just as long as it's not at the expense of 50 other guys on the team and at the expense of season ticket holders who pay thousands to sit in the rain and watch Wilson throw the ball into the ground for two years.  Acting like fans weren't patient with the epic level of disaster Zach WIlson was is comical most fans were protecting the kid a month ago.

My best jets memory is listening to my dad talk about Joe Namath. I’ve been plenty patient as we all have.

[Warfish]

43 minutes ago, AFJF said:

  But is 3 or 4 the worst idea in the world?

Yes.

For several reasons. Economic. Sunk cost fallacy. Odds of success/failure. Etc.

[AFJF]

27 minutes ago, jgb said:

For me the most important thing he said was “he still has a future here.” At the press conference at the last reset, he said “he is still our future.”

 

That, to me is right up there with when Saleh said Zach was their guy for the rest of the year barring injury.  Not long after that they benched a completely healthy Zach Wilson.

He's not going to say in season that they're giving up on the kid whether they are or not.

I think his frustration with everyone wanting instant results and unwilling to give him more time is a little deeper than the coach speak "we love him, he's great, we see him as a player on this team in the future".

But again...JMO.

[AFJF]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Yes.

For several reasons. Economic. Sunk cost fallacy. Odds of success/failure. Etc.

Is this just for Zach, or should they cut bait on all players who struggle though their first 1 1/2-2 seasons?

[Rangers9]

23 minutes ago, Larz said:

I personally was flabbergasted that he spoke about that. Combined with him saying that when he told zach he was being demoted that zach said “ why me?”   He’s damaging zach repeatedly. These are unforced errors.  Can you imagine belicheat talking about Mac jones like this?  He’s putting things out there that make it harder for Zach, then says Zach is the future.  
 

he actually said that the QB goes to dark places I mean you can’t make this sh*t up. 
 

if Zach’s contact wasn’t guaranteed I’d say he’s trying to kick the can to the off-season and then they’ll just cut him but it’s fully guaranteed so it’s much more complicated than that. 

At yesterday’s practice after announcement that Zach deactivated saw a video of Zach joking around with Saleh. You figure?.

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, AFJF said:

That, to me is right up there with when Saleh said Zach was their guy for the rest of the year barring injury.  Not long after that they benched a completely healthy Zach Wilson.

He's not going to say in season that they're giving up on the kid whether they are or not.

I think his frustration with everyone wanting instant results and unwilling to give him more time is a little deeper than the coach speak "we love him, he's great, we see him as a player on this team in the future".

But again...JMO.

Mary Christmas, G man!

[undertow]

20 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

This.

His own teammates turned on him before the majority of the fanbase.

 

His own teammates also turned on him before the media did.......most people ignored Wilsons poor play till NE game 2.  Now they will tell you they won in spite of him but at the time people were singing a different tune and throwing parades for no turnovers. 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, undertow said:

His own teammates also turned on him before the media did.......most people ignored Wilsons poor play till NE game 2.  Now they will tell you they won in spite of him but at the time people were singing a different tune and throwing parades for no turnovers. 

Most people don’t want to be the first into the lifeboats but no one wants to miss the last one 

[Bleedin Green]

Geno has been in the NFL for a decade and it took until after 3 years as the backup on his 4th team before it finally worked out.  Credit to him for being good enough to stick as backup for that long and then finally take advantage of the opportunity, but we've still yet to see whether he can sustain this level of play long-term.  Even if he does, using one of the most significant outliers in league history is hardly much of an argument.  It's like saying you should spend every cent you have on lottery tickets every day because occasionally someone wins.  The reality is over the past 2 years Wilson's been the league's very worst QB, and history at the position gives no reason to believe anything will magically change, especially now more than ever with how excessively favored the passing game is in today's NFL.

In the end though, anyone who's paid attention to Saleh over the past 2 years should know that he is never going to say an unkind word about any of his players in public, no matter how frustrated he is with them.  That is an admirable trait, but also means there's little that should be taken from it, unless looking to paint a narrative someone wants to see.  Saleh's been blowing smoke up Mim's ass since the day he got here and yet the guy still hasn't broken past #4/5 on the depth chart and steps onto the field strictly based on the injuries or benching of others.  There's little reason to believe this is any different, particularly for a guy at a the league's most important position he's benched for the second time this season despite JD having tried to avoid there being any viable options to compete for the spot, other than the ones he wants, since the day he got here.

Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean you need to cut Wilson on the spot.  Assuming there's no great trade offers made for him, I'm totally fine with him sticking around, but you do not promise him even one more single snap for the rest of his career, as they need to go into next year with multiple better options at the position, to start and even for depth.  If by some miracle Wilson breaks through that crowd than so be it, but it would be wildly irresponsible to waste even one more second of the full team's time on an individual player who, to this point, has been a monumental bust.  I'm sure Saleh already realizes that, and Wilson will get the same opportunity to learn and grow that every bench player in the league gets, for as long he's still in it, but is deserving of no more than that.

[AFJF]

6 minutes ago, jgb said:

Mary Christmas, G man!

Same to you, bud.

[Jet Nut]

13 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Is this just for Zach, or should they cut bait on all players who struggle though their first 1 1/2-2 seasons?

Just Zach.  He moves in an entirely different universe

[carlito1171]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

This is JMO of course, but hearing Saleh give an answer that wasn't the usual rehearsed coach BS was interesting.

Paraphrasing, but he talked about how the words "time" and "development" are like oil and water in today's NFL.  Not every guy develops at the same rate and expecting everyone to be a one or two year wonder isn't realistic.  He said everyone wants you to develop players, but they don't want to allow the time to do it.

Made me wonder if he really does want to give Zach more time to learn.

Just look at the QB they're playing this week.  A lot of us said the same things about Geno that we're now saying about Zach.  Now I'm not saying we give Zach six or seven years.  But is 3 or 4 the worst idea in the world?

 

Saleh Comments Regarding Zach Could Offer Peek at Coaches Thought Process Moving Forward - JetNation.com (NY Jets Blog & Forum)

 

Yes he did say everyone wants you to develop but no one gives you the time to do it. He’s absolutely right….which is exactly why they will find a replacement at QB next year whether it’s giving MW the inside track on QB1 or signing someone outside the building. They don’t have “time”…..relying on the light bulb to magically come on in a broken 23 year old who can’t make NFL level reads or anticipatory throws is the express track to the unemployment line for this regime.  

[Joe W. Namath]

Again, unless Zach and his handlers demand to be moved, Zach is here for 2 more years.  There is 0 need to get rid of him.  Develop him and leave him as qb 3 next year.  And in year 4, who knows, maybe he blossoms and is ready to go.

 

[carlito1171]

46 minutes ago, KRL said:

As popular as it is to trash Wilson and to declare that he's done here
I believe Saleh and expect him to get another shot in 2023.  Thankfully
we aren't DEN and haven't committed a ton of $$$ to the QB spot.  I 
expect White to be re-signed (2 yrs / 12-15 million) and a training
camp battle between he and Wilson

Kiss the whole regime goodbye if this is their grand plan…..

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, AFJF said:

Only part I disagree with is the trade aspect.  I may be wrong, but I can't see anyone offering more than a day 3 pick.  For that little, just keep working with him if you believe he can be salvaged.

If they think he's poop...move on and hope you're not wrong.

The problem is that's a reinvestment - an expensive one - to pay him another fully-guaranteed $9-10MM to have him work with a QBC as the team's #3/PS QB for 2 more years. Then extend him, I suppose, on the off-chance he won't listen to his mom & gtfo as soon as he's able to -- unless the plan is to exercise the 5th yr option after the 2023 season for another $20MM or so. $30MM more to wait & find out. Too much investment for a low percentage chance, based on what we've seen so far.

If you don't think he's going to "get it" within the upcoming year, there's nothing to decide: you trade him & put that $9-10MM savings towards his replacement. I prefer they get more, but if a day 3 pick is all they can get then that's what the market bears. 

And for him, tbh he's better off elsewhere anyway. Even if he could succeed it won't be here at this point. He's lost the locker room (the receivers, anyway) & the fan base. Hard to believe he hasn't lost some/most (and maybe all) of the coaches, too. He's demonstrably worse than he was before, and that's all mental. He needs a change of scenery & the only way the Jets could carry him as a maybe-someday is if they had a young QB locked in for 3+ more years at very cheap, and even then it's likely a poor investment. 

[Adoni Beast]

There’s no good reason to cut Zack Wilson. The trade market won’t make it worth a trade either.

At this point you sit him, put him in QB flight school boot camp and hope for the best in 2024.