Cimini: LaFleur and Rex Hogan pushed for Zach, said he was better than Lawrence

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Just now, undertow said:

This is major projection....the emotional people weren't the ones correctly analyzing the play of the 2nd overall pick it was those pretending he was playing well throwing for 150 yards and missing wide open receivers by 10 yards and calling people fake miserable fans for not living in their warped reality.

its not major projection at all, everyone directing their hate at ZW let the real problem off the hook, and continues to do so.

Doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results. Lets get rid of Sanchez, that will fix the problem, Geno, Darnold, ZW......

The real problem is how we run the org, get the right people in, the QB position will be fixed quickly, its that simple

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

To the nuthouse, seemingly.

Was she in a dark room and did she see the hat man ?

[undertow]

8 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I don't care about ZW, he is done, I care about the Jets. When you run your org like sh*t, you get sh*t players and sh*t results. I want a better run org. Hating ZW does not get that done, it deflects the blame on ZW instead of the real place it should be

ZW sucks and the people running the franchise suck....not complicated.

[Ron Rico]

54 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

Not taking the trade down haul from the 49’ers was one of the worst decisions this franchise has ever made. We’d have a playoff team and possible contending team right now with any average QB. I don’t know that Douglas should be fired for taking Zach rather than the trade down but a public flogging at the minimum. What a dumb jackass. 

Alot of fans are assuming JD will have a great draft, because of last year. It never occurs to them that the likelihood is at least the same he repeats 2020.

[Warfish]

Just now, 56mehl56 said:

Was she in a dark room and did she see the hat man ?

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, Ron Rico said:

Alot of fans are assuming JD will have a great draft, because of last year. It never occurs to them that the likelihood is at least the same he repeats 2020.

A lot of fans believe AR will have an MVP year with the Jets because of 2021. 

[T0mShane]

27 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I vividly recall when ZW was drafted that MLF was all over ZW and was the one who pushed hardest to get him.

Douglas and co were scouting Zach Wilson while MLF was still on the Niners staff. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Sure you don't, you just white knight him in nearly every post coincidentally.  I'm sure.

So do posters here at JN.  

Says the guy endlessly prattling about "hate" biases against Wilson, lol.  You're nothing but emotional language.

Very much still TBD.  

Whining about the Owner won't change things either.  He doesn't listen to this forum, and he isn't selling.

Be careful, that sounds alot like emotion.  

I do.  Every day.  

Ive never once, not once white knighted ZW. I have put the blame where it belongs. ZW sucks, getting rid of him doesn't fix the problem, which is how we are run. You let the real problem off the hook by directing everything at ZW, I look at ZW as a symptom, not the problem. I am smart, you are emotional.

Your completely wrong as usual.

Its funny, this fan base got the owner to fire Idzik, by flying a banner. Put the blame where it belongs, at the people the owner hires, and the reason he hires them.

You operate off of emotion, not facts or logic, you continue your 3 year temper tantrum like a toddler. 

 

[dcJet]

All the good stuff JD did is ruined. 

He's the best GM we've had in a while but this Zach blunder is a colossal blunder.  

The decision to go all in on an unknown and untested project like Zach, when JD had safer and saner options available, is just mind-boggling incompetent. 

WTF was he thinking?  It was incompetent to take a huge risk on an unknown player like that vs the alternatives.  

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Douglas and co were scouting Zach Wilson while MLF was still on the Niners staff. 

Yes, as they were scouting Fields and Lance as well, MLF loved ZW, it was documented at the time, I vividly recall reading it. I wanted Fields, or to bring back Darnold for a year or two. I remember reading it because the article painted MLF as a really bright young mind and I felt better about drafting ZW because of the article

[Flea Flicking Frank]

7 minutes ago, undertow said:

ZW sucks and the people running the franchise suck....not complicated.

no, its not complicated at all, but 99% of the hate on this board, is directed at ZW, not the people running the franchise. Which has been my exact point.

 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Cool. MLF is gone. Now why is Hogan still here? 

[DoubleDown]

Some of the claims don't seem plausible.

There is little doubt in my mind that if Douglas received a big offer to trade down from #2, he would have taken it, and tried to build around Sam Darnold in years 4 and 5 of his rookie contract.

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

The autopsy on the Douglas era isn’t too far behind. 

You think he will leave after the Jets win the Super Bowl with Aaron Rodgers? Possible, I think he comes back for a victory lap or three.

[Maxman]

Just now, DoubleDown said:

Some of the claims don't seem plausible.

There is little doubt in my mind that if Douglas received a big offer to trade down from #2, he would have taken it, and tried to build around Sam Darnold in years 4 and 5 of his rookie contract.

Jets would have made the playoffs this year with Darnold for sure.

[ScarletKnight89]

Saying somebody is better than the guy chosen ahead of him who you know you have no chance of drafting anyway isn't that big of a deal to me. 

I'm more outraged at the person, probably JD, who convinced himself that Becton was better than Wirfs.

[Warfish]

13 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Ive never once, not once white knighted ZW. I have put the blame where it belongs. ZW sucks, getting rid of him doesn't fix the problem, which is how we are run. You let the real problem off the hook by directing everything at ZW, I look at ZW as a symptom, not the problem. I am smart, you are emotional.

Your completely wrong as usual.

Its funny, this fan base got the owner to fire Idzik, by flying a banner. Put the blame where it belongs, at the people the owner hires, and the reason he hires them.

You operate off of emotion, not facts or logic, you continue your 3 year temper tantrum like a toddler. 

 

Yup, this sure isn't an emotional post at all.  Like totally.

Also, "wrong as usual", lol.  Got it.

[Maxman]

11 minutes ago, dcJet said:

All the good stuff JD did is ruined. 

He's the best GM we've had in a while but this Zach blunder is a colossal catastrophe.  

The decision to go all in on an unknown and untested project like Zach, when JD had other safer and saner and lucrative options available, is just mind-boggling incompetent. 

WTF was he thinking?  There was no reason to take that huge a risk on an unknown player.

The Jets were a terrible team. They were trying to find a franchise QB. I don't have a problem with the swing and miss.

JD built up the talent level and Saleh has this defense rolling. Time to change course and get a vet QB because this is a win now team. That is partly do to Douglas and partly due to Saleh and the defensive staff.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Yup, this sure isn't an emotional post at all.  Like totally.

Also, "wrong as usual", lol.  Got it.

I love how thats your takeaway of everything I said

 

[Maxman]

14 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Ive never once, not once white knighted ZW. I have put the blame where it belongs. ZW sucks, getting rid of him doesn't fix the problem, which is how we are run. You let the real problem off the hook by directing everything at ZW, I look at ZW as a symptom, not the problem. I am smart, you are emotional.

Your completely wrong as usual.

Its funny, this fan base got the owner to fire Idzik, by flying a banner. Put the blame where it belongs, at the people the owner hires, and the reason he hires them.

You operate off of emotion, not facts or logic, you continue your 3 year temper tantrum like a toddler. 

 

If only Woody Johnson received some criticism here. Everyone just loves him so much and nobody ever speaks ill of him lol.

Woody Johnson followed @JetNation on Twitter and unfollowed us for being critical.

The Jets have me shadow banned in life because of the criticism Woody receives here.

But yeah, nobody blames Woody.  Got it.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Just now, Maxman said:

If only Woody Johnson received some criticism here. Everyone just loves him so much and nobody ever speaks ill of him lol.

Woody Johnson followed @JetNation on Twitter and unfollowed us for being critical.

The Jets have me shadow banned in life because of the criticism Woody receives here.

But yeah, nobody blames Woody.  Got it.

you think Woody has received even a fraction of the hate that ZW has received in the past 2 years? lol is right

[Maxman]

1 minute ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

you think Woody has received even a fraction of the hate that ZW has received in the past 2 years? lol is right

Woody was gone and not running the organization for a long time. People hate him though, there is no doubt about that.

[Larz]

When JD was hired he made a big stink about the Jets scouting budget and got a huge increase. If he listened to anyone else besides the scouts, shame on him, that’s a brutal decision 

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I love how thats your takeaway of everything I said

Still crying?  

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Just now, Maxman said:

Woody was gone and not running the organization for a long time. People hate him though, there is no doubt about that.

My stance on this is clear, and people can block me or you can ban me if you want. Woody hires people who let him meddle, and won't tell him to GF himself. Those are the wrong people to hire, and are directly responsible for the results we have had.

The people who wouldn't let him meddle were removed, and replaced with people who would.

He hires first time HC's and GM's becuase they are desperate for their opportunity and will deal with him.

Good, proven HC's or GM's with choices would never put up with him meddling. 

ZW is a symptom, he is not the problem. Getting rid of ZW does not solve the problem, just like getting rid of Sanchez, Geno, Darnold before ZW did not solve the problem. Finding a QB is not a matter of luck, its a matter of knowing what you are doing. Its not lucky that Andy Reid ended up with Mahomes.

All the hate towards ZW deflects the blame from where it really belongs.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Just now, Warfish said:

Still crying?  

[T0mShane]

16 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Yes, as they were scouting Fields and Lance as well, MLF loved ZW, it was documented at the time, I vividly recall reading it. I wanted Fields, or to bring back Darnold for a year or two. I remember reading it because the article painted MLF as a really bright young mind and I felt better about drafting ZW because of the article

I have no doubt that LaFleur loved Zach at the time, but what was documented at the time was that Saleh loved him, LaFleur loved him, Douglas loved him, etc etc etc. You know who still loves him? Joe Douglas—the same guy who apparently refused a wondrous package of first and second round picks for #2, and he didn’t refuse those offers because of Mike LaFleur’s insistence

[Warfish]

7 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

you think Woody has received even a fraction of the hate that ZW has received in the past 2 years? lol is right

In fairness, Woody didn't play QB.  Woody didn't make Zach Wilson a bust.  

If it shocks you the #2 overall pick gets more day to day criticism, as the biggest bust QB in NFL history, than the Owner, well, that seems like a you issue.  

And Woody isn't going anywhere, so maybe we should focus on the things that can change.  Like getting a better QB, perhaps?  Woody isn't an obstacle to getting a better QB.  If anything, JD and Saleh could be.

 

[maury77]

The only reason I'm not advocating for Douglas, Hogan and the rest of the front office to be taken out in front of the firing squad is that the Wilson draft was a Covid year so they had limited access to the prospects and they had a hell of a draft last year. Given the red flags Wilson had, it was (and continues to be) galactically stupid to pick Wilson at 2. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Just now, T0mShane said:

I have no doubt that LaFleur loved Zach at the time, but what was documented at the time was that Saleh loved him, LaFleur loved him, Douglas loved him, etc etc etc. You know who still loves him? Joe Douglas—the same guy who apparently refused a wondrous package of first and second round picks for #2, and he didn’t refuse those offers because of Mike LaFleur’s insistence

I don't think JD, Saleh or MLF have a damn clue of what they are doing with the QB position, and this is why I will say it as many times as I can, getting rid of ZW does not solve the problem. The fundamental problem we have is we have an owner who hires the wrong people for the wrong reasons. JD, Saleh, MLF, Hackett, they all suck. ZW sucks, but getting rid of him does nothing, the only thing that fixes the Jets is getting in people at JD/Saleh level who know what they are doing.

If they go out and get Rodgers, or Jackson, its like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound. It may cover up parts of the gore, but does nothing to address the underlying problem.

Get real people in here, magically the QB position will get solved, and quickly

[Flea Flicking Frank]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

In fairness, Woody didn't play QB.  Woody didn't make Zach Wilson a bust.  

If it shocks you the #2 overall pick gets more day to day criticism, as the biggest bust QB in NFL history, than the Owner, well, that seems like a you issue.  

And Woody isn't going anywhere, so maybe we should focus on the things that can change.  Like getting a better QB, perhaps?  Woody isn't an obstacle to getting a better QB.  If anything, JD and Saleh could be.

 

Woody hired the idiots who chose the QB you hate so much, you want to let the same idiots pick more QB's, you must love to hate, lol, enjoy

[Matt39]

6 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

My stance on this is clear, and people can block me or you can ban me if you want. Woody hires people who let him meddle, and won't tell him to GF himself. Those are the wrong people to hire, and are directly responsible for the results we have had.

The people who wouldn't let him meddle were removed, and replaced with people who would.

He hires first time HC's and GM's becuase they are desperate for their opportunity and will deal with him.

Good, proven HC's or GM's with choices would never put up with him meddling. 

ZW is a symptom, he is not the problem. Getting rid of ZW does not solve the problem, just like getting rid of Sanchez, Geno, Darnold before ZW did not solve the problem. Finding a QB is not a matter of luck, its a matter of knowing what you are doing. Its not lucky that Andy Reid ended up with Mahomes.

All the hate towards ZW deflects the blame from where it really belongs.

Not sure if it’s that or not. Good owners can meddle by setting clear expectations and holding people accountable to them, defining roles, deadlines to get things done etc. At the end of the day he’s the CEO of the franchise. He just had no prior experience in his life in doing this.

[kevinc855]

1 hour ago, peebag said:

Your 15 minutes are up.

Good 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Not sure if it’s that or not. Good owners can meddle by setting clear expectations and holding people accountable to them, defining roles, deadlines to get things done etc. At the end of the day he’s the CEO of the franchise. He just had no prior experience in his life in doing this.

Ok, so if this was not clear, than yeah, absolutely. Woody should absolutely be holding people accountable. The problem is Woody wants to meddle in football operations and feel like hes a part of the process. Let his son call the draft picks, tell the GM/HC to go get Tim Tebow, etc. Al Davis did this and he was an actual NFL football guy, and still largely messed it up. I don't know if Woody could accurately pick out a football from a soccer ball.

Demanding results is a good thing, but hes not hiring guys for results, hes hiring them to be able to play with his toy

[RutgersJetFan]

4 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Woody hired the idiots who chose the QB you hate so much, you want to let the same idiots pick more QB's, you must love to hate, lol, enjoy

I think it's safe to say that even if he doesn't let these idiots do it he'll replace them with other idiots. The Jets are like that a--hole bit in Spaceballs.