Cimini: LaFleur and Rex Hogan pushed for Zach, said he was better than Lawrence

[BP]

10 hours ago, freestater said:

of course the guy who isn't here anymore is to blame. Zero accountability at One Jets Drive. 

Not just that, but let’s always air out our dirty laundry. It’s very professional. And they just can’t figure out why they consistently fail.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

36 minutes ago, maury77 said:

The Zach Wilson hive is the football equivalent of Qanon. If you are still even half expecting Zach Wilson to turn into a legitimate starter in the NFL, then .........

really weird that, thats what you took away from this story

[k-met57]

7 pages of discussion on a Cimini article....exactly as he drew it up. I laughed when i read this part. I think the jets were low key paying Dan O to show Zach Wilson how to run out of the back of the endzone.

 

"Wilson, dealing with the pro-White sentiment and his own on-field struggles, became "completely mentally blocked," according to Orlovsky. And he played like it."

[32EBoozer]

9 hours ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Ok so your narrative is to be angry at the mistakes we have made in the past. Tale as old as time especially pertaining to the Jets. How about a solid plan moving forward? What is your plan, what would you do now , what QB would you go after and what would be your priorities. It’s easy to point out every mistake once they have been made. We don’t know exactly how everything took place especially if it’s Cimini writing it. 

Was my narrative “angry”? You’re the one sounding angry.
Your previous post stated Jets should have taken the SF trade offer to take Zach. I simply mentioned it’s not that simple. JD wanted to get the Qb “in-house “ that season while he still had the ammo from the Jamaal Adams trade and build around Zach. So far it has been an abject failure except AVT, Sauce, Garrett Wilson & Breece. My plan would be exactly what we are doing. If plan A didn’t work move on to plan B…. Capable Vet Qb. Not Flacco dregs! I would prefer 1. an invested Rodgers 2. Jimmy G. or 3. Tannehill with Zach being re-built, if possible for 2025.
 

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Whose decision was it to barely play him in the preseason his rookie year? I appreciate the post but I’m sorry it just sounds like one giant excuse for Douglas and Saleh. It’s Saleh’s job to get Wilson ready. It was also his job to set the expectations with Lefleur.

The 3 game preseason, you were going to play ZW with backups?  

[FactsOnly]

spoiler alert;

HE IS!!!

[FootballLove]

6 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

It would've been the most Jetsy thing of all time ("JOAT") if we had the #1 pick and took ZW over TL.  

Ya that's how half this board is acting like JoeD passed on Trevor Lawrence for Zack Wilson. He actually passed on Alex Fields, Sam Darnold, Andy Dalton, and Carson Wentz for ZW. What JoeD wiffed on was a Vet for ZW to sit behind a yr or two.

[Dunnie]

spoiler alert;
HE IS!!!

... not at the moment . But the door is still slightly open ...

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[T0mShane]

13 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

But the issue is now its late in the game , specifically 2 years in , they can't "develop" ZW solely for another year and have it crash down on them. They hopefully (new offensive staff)  will commit do the work necessary in TC, PS classroom to preserve the asset(ZW) which would be the best outcome while utilizing a Vet QB to run the team in parallel. If ZW evoles it gives either a potential long term starter or a trade chip. If not then they are starting the process over looking for the long term answer. 

Yeah, I suppose that’s their best and only actionable plan moving forward, and that’s the public spin they’ve gotta put on it (along with “LaFleur was mean!”), but it’s all so pie in the sky that it’s hard to take seriously. I think Wilson and his people will get themselves out of here before they let these dopes further ruin his career by treating him like a stashed Euro player. Rodgers or Garoppolo will provide the cover for them to toss their mistake into the river when no one is looking. 

[T0mShane]

6 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

The 3 game preseason, you were going to play ZW with backups?  

Yes?

[Barton]

11 hours ago, football guy said:

They feel this team is able to compete for a championship and think it would be best to start from square one with Zach. If they acquired Rodgers it would be by far the best mentor for him given their relationship and playing styles, but more importantly Zach would not pose a threat to Rodgers job and could aim to master the offense behind him; Rodgers plays for likely 2 years, Jets evaluate Zach’s progress while learning as his backup, and if all goes accordingly you re-sign him and start him in his 5th year (he’ll be 26 when the season starts). 

If the sign Jimmy, I think they would go into TC annointing Jimmy as the de facto starter, but there would be a lot more room for Zach to steal that job from him the way Kenny Pickett did from Mitch Trubisky. It all comes down to how ready Zach is without pressuring him to be ready. If Zach miraculously reinvented himself over the offseason and was clearly outperforming Jimmy, they’d probably play Zach knowing that they can always go back to Jimmy. That said, more likely Jimmy would start for at least the year

Any chance Mike white returns?

[jgb]

21 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

lmao

Zach buried LaFleur, who's the one who most wanted him in the first place.

The idea that he'd bang the table so hard for him and also not bang the table for a veteran in place, so Zach could sit for 1-3 years, seems pretty far-fetched.

Douglas followed the advice of the guy hired to run the offense. Turned down a wealth of picks, which it seems is normally a move he makes, and is now full of fat and regret as the OC isn't even here anymore but he's still left holding the Zach potato. 

Exactly. What the hell was the excuse to not get Minshew as a backup when JAX was shopping him who would’ve cost less than Jets gave up for Flacco mid season? Missing on a QB is one thing it happens — hardest position to scout — but to me the real crime here is the dog shiite handling of the rest of the QB room.

Same idiocy that had us pass on Tannehill after Darnold’s shaky first season. NO MORE ALL EGGS IN ONE BASKET ON YOUNG UNPROVEN QBS!!!

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Exactly. What the hell was the excuse to not get Minshew as a backup who would’ve cost less than Jets gave up for Flacco mid season? Missing on a QB is one thing it happens — hardest position to scout — but to me the real crime here is the dog shiite handling of the rest of the QB room.

Obviously, Mike LaFleur had full roster control, so take it up with him

[Matt39]

7 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

The 3 game preseason, you were going to play ZW with backups?  

Umm yes? 

[jgb]

17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Obviously, Mike LaFleur had full roster control, so take it up with him

Typical bad manager move. Blame your underlings. They don’t realize the next question is always “why da fugg did you listen to the idiot, then?”

JD is lucky that Woody can’t manage to tie his shoes much less a football operation 

[LIJetsFan]

12 hours ago, football guy said:

By no means am I absolving Saleh but I don’t think it’s fair to say getting Wilson ready was his job. He’s the HC- his job is to delegate responsibilities and macro-manage the team/staff. He shouldn’t have to hold Mike LaFleur’s hand through that process, especially when Saleh’s background isn’t on offense. Saleh’s biggest mistake was hiring an ultra-young staff IMO… for a young, developing team void of veteran talent that really made no sense in retrospect.

The bold is a BS take.  Saleh HAD to have noticed how poorly ZW was playing preseason, between game practices, AS WELL AS during game time.  QB is the most important player on the team, right?  Hoping for miracle wins  is not the way to HC a team.  It's on Saleh.  That is his Job.  Seems to me he never did a deep dive into finding out what was what on that side of the ball. 

I think JD is safe for now but this is Saleh's last chance to get it done.  I'm tired of the good system bad execution crap.  Reminds me of Idzik, good plan extremely piss poor execution.  Enough.         

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Typical bad manager move. Blame your underlings. They don’t realize the next question is always “why da fugg did you listen to the idiot, then?”

JD is lucky that Woody can’t manage to tie his shoes much less a football operation 

My favorite part of this whole saga is that nobody—no one—has offered up what the alternative option (that, presumably, Douglas and the smart scouts preferred if not for LaFleur’s treachery) was if they weren’t going to take Zach, which makes me think the alternative option was actually worse than drafting Zach. 

[jgb]

7 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

The bold is a BS take.  Saleh HAD to have noticed how poorly ZW was playing preseason, between game practices, AS WELL AS during game time.  QB is the most important player on the team, right?  Hoping for miracle wins  is not the way to HC a team.  It's on Saleh.  That is his Job.  Seems to me he never did a deep dive into finding out what was what on that side of the ball. 

I think JD is safe for now but this is Saleh's last chance to get it done.  I'm tired of the good system bad execution crap.  Reminds me of Idzik, good plan extremely piss poor execution.  Enough.         

I think deep down they knew he was a mush and would spiral to bad town if they brought in legit competition/dealt him any perceived adversity whatsoever. My guess is they basically had near-instant buyer’s remorse after getting to know him outside of controlled interviews and were stuck kid gloving.

[sec101row23]

MLF and Hogan are just the first couple of victims that Zach will leave behind.   Zach is a regime killer.  

[jgb]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

My favorite part of this whole saga is that nobody—no one—has offered up what the alternative option (that, presumably, Douglas and the smart scouts preferred if not for LaFleur’s treachery) was if they weren’t going to take Zach, which makes me think the alternative option was actually worse than drafting Zach. 

It’s hard to imagine what could’ve been worse but I also have supreme confidence that the Jets would’ve found it

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

MLF and Hogan are just the first couple of victims that Zach will leave behind.   Zach is a regime killer.  

Daniel Kelly pre-draft: “he will get everyone fired.”

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Yes?

 Because?  
 

[Jet Nut]

28 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Umm yes? 

Umm why? 

[LIJetsFan]

8 minutes ago, jgb said:

I think deep down they knew he was a mush and would spiral to bad town if they brought in legit competition/dealt him any adversity whatsoever. My guess is they basically had nearly-instant buyer’s remorse and were stuck kid gloving.

I like your take and this would be the most face saving scenario.  However if this was the case then after their rookie season  they should have been "pounding the table" as it were and demanding an upgrade in the QB room.  That, regardless of how it might have bothered Mr. Mush.  Our QB room has been a  hot mess since forever. No excuse (I'm looking at you JD) for not upgrading our QB room last year in the mush scenario. 

I think they deluded themselves into "Zack will get it in year 2" all evidence to the contrary.        

[jgb]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, I suppose that’s their best and only actionable plan moving forward, and that’s the public spin they’ve gotta put on it (along with “LaFleur was mean!”), but it’s all so pie in the sky that it’s hard to take seriously. I think Wilson and his people will get themselves out of here before they let these dopes further ruin his career by treating him like a stashed Euro player. Rodgers or Garoppolo will provide the cover for them to toss their mistake into the river when no one is looking. 

The guy is as phony as can be. He is boxed into the “me-first/team-never” narrative (can argue if it’s overblown but it exists) so he will be all “I just want to help the team anyway I can if that’s supporting and pushing a starter in front of me that A-OK with me blah blah blah” all while his surrogates wage a knock-down, knuckle-dragging media war on his behalf… which has already begun.

[jgb]

Just now, LIJetsFan said:

I like your take and this would be the most face saving scenario.  However if this was the case then after their rookie season  they should have been "pounding the table" as it were and demanding an upgrade in the QB room.  That, regardless of how it might have bothered Mr. Mush.  Our QB room has been a  hot mess since forever. No excuse (I'm looking at you JD) for not upgrading our QB room last year in the mush scenario. 

I think they deluded themselves into "Zack will get it in year 2" all evidence to the contrary.        

No lies detected 

[football guy]

1 hour ago, Barton said:

Any chance Mike white returns?

Depends whether they land Rodgers

[bla bla bla]

9 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

 So far it has been an abject failure except AVT, Sauce, Garrett Wilson & Breece. My plan would be exactly what we are doing. If plan A didn’t work move on to plan B…. Capable Vet Qb. Not Flacco dregs! I would prefer 1. an invested Rodgers 2. Jimmy G. or 3. Tannehill with Zach being re-built, if possible for 2025.
 

I'm not sure I'd call Conklin, Usomah, Carter, and Bam failures to put talent around Zach. When you have a horrible QB you will only get so many passing plays before a turnover on downs. 

[jgb]

Just now, bla bla bla said:

I'm not sure I'd call Conklin, Usomah, Carter, and Bam failures to put talent around Zach. When you have a horrible QB you will only get so many passing plays before a turnover on downs. 

QBs make their own weapons not the other way around the jets skill players were plenty good enough that they wouldn’t make a future FQB (much less a competent QB) play like the worst at his position in the league.

[Matt39]

18 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Umm why? 

Because he needed reps? You think the Jets plan for Wilson has been working?

[bla bla bla]

12 minutes ago, jgb said:

The guy is as phony as can be. He is boxed into the “me-first/team-never” narrative (can argue if it’s overblown but it exists) so he will be all “I just want to help the team anyway I can if that’s supporting and pushing a starter in front of me that A-OK with me blah blah blah” all while his surrogates wage a knock-down, knuckle-dragging media war on his behalf… which has already begun.

Has Zach done more "me" type stuff? I'm probably missing something, only thing that comes to mind was his response after the 2nd Pats loss. I've got the impression teammates don't like him because the team holds him to a different standard due to the selection status. I think Zach is a bad player, not necessarily a bad teammate.

 

[T0mShane]

25 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 Because?  
 

You are unclear as to why it might have been important to take a rookie quarterback who played in a hinterlands conference during lockdown whom you intend to start as a rookie and give him the maximum number of reps with NFL players in a non-pressure situation like preseason? 

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Because he needed reps? You think the Jets plan for Wilson has been working?

Throwing to backups and scrubs against backups and scrubs?  
It hasn’t worked because there wasn’t the right instruction.  

[jgb]

1 minute ago, bla bla bla said:

Has Zach done more "me" type stuff? I'm probably missing something, only thing that comes to mind was his response after the 2nd Pats loss. I've got the impression teammates don't like him because the team holds him to a different standard due to the selection status. I think Zach is a bad player, not necessarily a bad teammate.

 

I’m mainly pointing to the perception that exists, not really building the case. The reaction to his “no” comment seemed overblown but more troubling was that the locker room leaders didn’t rush to his unequivocal defense afterward. 

[T0mShane]

21 minutes ago, jgb said:

The guy is as phony as can be. He is boxed into the “me-first/team-never” narrative (can argue if it’s overblown but it exists) so he will be all “I just want to help the team anyway I can if that’s supporting and pushing a starter in front of me that A-OK with me blah blah blah” all while his surrogates wage a knock-down, knuckle-dragging media war on his behalf… which has already begun.

I think he and his people still have one card to play—that the Jets are a dysfunctional QB graveyard with a dipsh*t coaching staff—and they’re going to bang that drum hard if and when they bring in Rodgers.