Cimini: LaFleur and Rex Hogan pushed for Zach, said he was better than Lawrence

[FTL Jet Fan]

1 hour ago, 32EBoozer said:

Hindsight is always 20/20. If JD took the deal & Shanahan actually “Developed “ Zach (similar to Purdy) everyone is killing JD right now.

In a Petri dish view, JD was trying to get his young, affordable Franchise Qb in house to build around. I don’t think he was looking to wait another year. If Shanahan is trading the following Capital to get Zach, maybe this confirms what JD was thinking in drafting ZW

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, 32EBoozer said:

Hindsight is always 20/20. If JD took the deal & Shanahan actually “Developed “ Zach (similar to Purdy) everyone is killing JD right now.

In a Petri dish view, JD was trying to get his young, affordable Franchise Qb in house to build around. I don’t think he was looking to wait another year. If Shanahan is trading the following Capital to get Zach, maybe this confirms what JD was thinking in drafting ZW

 

 

 

Ok so your narrative is to be angry at the mistakes we have made in the past. Tale as old as time especially pertaining to the Jets. How about a solid plan moving forward? What is your plan, what would you do now , what QB would you go after and what would be your priorities. It’s easy to point out every mistake once they have been made. We don’t know exactly how everything took place especially if it’s Cimini writing it. 
 

Can’t understand why we still have Rex Hogan on staff. He is Woody’s Mr. Smithers. 

 

 

I wasn’t a Wilson guy, thought JF would have been better, but none of that matters now.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 minute ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I think it's safe to say that even if he doesn't let these idiots do it he'll replace them with other idiots. The Jets are like that a--hole bit in Spaceballs.

100%. Which is why the ZW SUCKS ASSSSSSSS posts and draft a QB with every damn draft pick is nothing more than emotional temper tantrums. 

Until Woody hires the right people for the right reasons, none of this matters.

Andy Reid made one high QB pick with the Eagles, and got McNabb, made one with the Cheifs, and got Mahomes. Either he is someone who knows what he is doing, or he is the luckiest coach on the planet. I don't overly believe in luck as a strategy. I believe luck is being prepared when opportunities present themselves.

We have JD and Saleh..... And to your point, if Woody moves on from them, it will be with KB and Taleh, a different named version of the same incompetence

[Biggs]

Jets culture under Douglas and Saleh: Blame someone else, no personal accountability. 

 

 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

40 minutes ago, dcJet said:

All the good stuff JD did is ruined. 

He's the best GM we've had in a while but this Zach blunder is a colossal catastrophe.  

The decision to go all in on an unknown and untested project like Zach, when JD had other safer and saner and lucrative options available, is just mind-boggling incompetent. 

WTF was he thinking?  There was no reason to take that huge a risk on an unknown player.

I'm pretty sure the Jets were not the only team in the NFL who ranked Zach that high. We're acting like everyone had him going in the second round. 

It was a collective swing and a miss. I'm not gonna hate on that. It sucks but IMO he's still doing a good job. Learn from it and move on. 

[Warfish]

19 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Woody hired the idiots who chose the QB

He did. 

I don't think JD is an "idiot", nor does the league, but there you go again with more emotional language.....

Even the best GM's can make mistakes, especially at QB.  Some are lucky enough to get a second chance.  

Nor sure what you really want Woody to here, JD and Saleh fired?  If so, that would be Woody doing the same thing Woody has always done, so not sure why you'd want that.  Especially knowing Woody would then be hiring the next GM/Coach, because he isn't selling the team.

19 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

you hate so much

Calling a thing what it objectively is isn't "hate".  Just FYI, since you seem to having so much trouble with this "hate" concept.

Also, complaining about how people unfairly "hate" someone in literally every single post while blaming others for that guys failure, that is textbook 'white knighting'. 

For example, saying "Woody has been a poor owner", which he has, doesn't mean I hate Woody.  The results are what they are.  

Now you know, and knowing if half the battle.

19 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

, you want to let the same idiots pick more QB's, you must love to hate, lol, enjoy

Isn't up to me.  But no, I would not have fired JD this offseason myself, if I were Owner. 

JD will be picking our QB for 2023.  

And I won't "hate" the new QB anymore than I hate the current crop of QB's.  I'll evaluate and advocate, as I always do.  If he sucks, I'll say so.  If he's truly horrid, I'll advocate for getting someone else.  Not that hard to get really.

I mean seriously, you whine about "hate" when it comes to Wilson more than a teen girl watching real housewives.....

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

He did. 

I don't think JD is an "idiot", nor does the league, but there you go again with more emotional language.....

Even the best GM's can make mistakes, especially at QB.  Some are lucky enough to get a second chance.  

Nor sure what you really want Woody to here, JD and Saleh fired?  If so, that would be Woody doing the same thing Woody has always done, so not sure why you'd want that.  Especially knowing Woody would then be hiring the next GM/Coach, because he isn't selling the team.

Calling a thing what it objectively is isn't "hate".  Just FYI, since you seem to having so much trouble with this "hate" concept.

Also, complaining about how people unfairly "hate" someone in literally every single post while blaming others for that guys failure, that is textbook 'white knighting'. 

Now you know, and knowing if half the battle.

Isn't up to me.  But no, I would not have fired JD this offseason myself, if I were Owner. 

JD will be picking our QB for 2023.  

And I won't "hate" the new QB anymore than I hate the current crop of QB's.  I'll evaluate and advocate, as I always do.  If he sucks, I'll say so.  If he's truly horrid, I'll advocate for getting someone else.  Not that hard to get really.

I mean seriously, you whine about "hate" when it comes to Wilson more than teen girl watching real housewives.....

Ive made my points clear, so have you, I don't have the energy nor the desire to do this with you. You have your take, its stupid, I have mine, its right. Enjoy yourself

[freestater]

36 minutes ago, Maxman said:

The Jets were a terrible team. They were trying to find a franchise QB. I don't have a problem with the swing and miss.

JD built up the talent level and Saleh has this defense rolling. Time to change course and get a vet QB because this is a win now team. That is partly do to Douglas and partly due to Saleh and the defensive staff.

This is where I'm at.

Landing Rodgers fixes a LOT of issues.

[Bugg]

1 hour ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I love how all the Poor Mikey crowd is calling BS on this. This is 100% not hindsight or blame game, I vividly recall when ZW was drafted that MLF was all over ZW and was the one who pushed hardest to get him.

MLF made his own bed

Don't you think it's awfully convenient the villain of the story is 1. no longer here and 2. already employed elsewhere. Could all be true, cannot profess to know.

Remain at a loss why anyone looking at BYU tape of Wilson and looking physically at him would pick him that high. It's simply not there.

 

 

[chirorob]

14 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Andy Reid made one high QB pick with the Eagles, and got McNabb, made one with the Cheifs, and got Mahomes. Either he is someone who knows what he is doing, or he is the luckiest coach on the planet. I don't overly believe in luck as a strategy. I believe luck is being prepared when opportunities present themselves.

We have JD and Saleh..... And to your point, if Woody moves on from them, it will be with KB and Taleh, a different named version of the same incompetence

I remember when Andy did that (picked McNabb), he was booed.

Everyone wanted Rickey Williams.

[#27TheDominator]

3 hours ago, slimjasi said:

It’s certainly possible after watching him play for a year and a half.

LaFleur wanted to bench Wilson in 2021.

2 hours ago, Trotter said:

Never knew we had someone named Rex hogan. Put him in the same category as hymie.

everytime I see the title of this thread I keep thinking why is hulk hogan involved in our qb

Hogan was VP of Personnel with Indy.  I think he is guy that was under consideration for GM positions.  Hogan and Phil Savage were widely lauded as having serious personnel men in the building.  He is not a financial guy like Hymie.  Quite the opposite.

 

1 hour ago, JiFields said:

I dont remember it this way.  I remember the reports saying JD was head over heels for him.  He was front and center at his proday, gushing over him and I dont even think Lil Mikey was there.

 

Cimini explained that Douglas only met Wilson in person once during the draft process, at BYU’s pro day in late March. It was a meeting that made a strong impression — “Ultimately that pro day really, really cemented it,” Douglas told Cimini.

Why would LaFleur go?  He doesn't talk to players.

56 minutes ago, Warfish said:

To the nuthouse, seemingly.

Dallas?

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Ive made my points clear, so have you, I don't have the energy nor the desire to do this with you. You have your take, its stupid, I have mine, its right. Enjoy yourself

If you say so Francis.

 

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Don't you think it's awfully convenient the villain of the story is 1. no longer here and 2. already employed elsewhere. Could all be true, cannot profess to know.

Remain at a loss why anyone looking at BYU tape of Wilson and looking physically at him would pick him that high. It's simply not there.

 

 

Whose decision was it to draft Becton? Just as egregious as Wilson if not more. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

6 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Don't you think it's awfully convenient the villain of the story is 1. no longer here and 2. already employed elsewhere. Could all be true, cannot profess to know.

Remain at a loss why anyone looking at BYU tape of Wilson and looking physically at him would pick him that high. It's simply not there.

 

 

I don't think its convenient at all, I read it at the time of the draft, and have stated this multiple times on the board that MLF loved ZW in the draft process.

 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

6 minutes ago, chirorob said:

I remember when Andy did that (picked McNabb), he was booed.

Everyone wanted Rickey Williams.

yep

[Bugg]

12 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Jets culture under Douglas and Saleh: Blame someone else, no personal accountability. 

 

 

Thought; Jets under Johnson spare the Gase disaster ALWAYS hire a DC to be the HC. They get into the room with Robert Wood Johnson IV and babble about "toughness" or some other empty nonsense and THEY GET THE JOB. Brian Daboll talking about the offense he'd like to run, Johnson's eyes glaze over, no "toughness" in that. And then when the offense goes to hell, throw the OC into the volcano. It's very convenient for a DC coach, be it Rex Ryan, or Herman Edwards, or Todd Bowles, and now Bobby Saleh. Get a year or 2 in before anyone asks hard questions, and you have a fall guy to bang out a few more years at top salary.  Mangini never got the chance and again Gase. It's like this franchise refuses to learn anything. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

If you say so Francis.

 

[Phillyjet]

And One Jets Drive is now openly leaking stuff.  Guys stabbing each other in the back.  Roll out the body bags for next offseason.  That’s what I get from this story.  

[Mogglez]

He’s (Cimini) completely right.

[Leftylarry]

I didn't want Zach WIlson, wanted to trade down, maybe twice or 3 times because I thought that draft was CRAZY deep and it was, with at least 100 very, very good prospects, man, I loved Spencer Brown in the 3rd rd but I digress.

My favorite AVAILABLE QB in that draft was Justin Fields, he was the same height as Zach had a much thicker lower half , ran faster, could make the same throws, was at least equally as accurate as a thrower and had a fantastic pedigree, 5 star HS QB who played against TL in the OPENING, the big HS Camp (combine) and beat him there, buried in the SEC  at Georgia and then to Ohio STAte the BIG TEN against the best teams in the country and he usually excelled.

Then a few shmoes, none of whom took into consideration the fact the BIg TEN shut down football during COVID, only to bring it back  afte4r the players sitting out 6-8 weeks, decided FIelds couldn't make second reads which was ridiculous to anyone who saw him play the season before or woh watched him dismantle TL and CLemson in the playoff.

He feel to what #11 or #12 pick and Bears (who have given him the Sam Darnold, no chance to succeed treatment) stole him there and he will be a star in the future.

All that being said, ZW has shown enough that he deserves another season to develop, at times he looked like a VERY talented guy back there , why nobody thinks that while the rest of the league was getting to NFL quality 110% physical shape, ZW was sitting and rehabbing from losing a chunk of meniscus ( he should have taken the SANTANA Moss fix and missed the season, he will regret this later on) effected his play, I don't understand but that's a different story, again, I wouldn't have drafted him but now that i have him, crazy not to give him another year to develop.

Heading into year three of his career Aaron Rodgers hadn't really played  at all, a few mop ups.

[Bugg]

Just now, Phillyjet said:

And One Jets Drive is now openly leaking stuff.  Guys stabbing each other in the back.  Roll out the body bags for next offseason.  That’s what I get from this story.  

As things go sideways, it's less about winning football games than to keep getting paid for as long as possible. Mike Lafleur, goes, everyone else keeps their jobs. Music keeps going if the Jets get in the playoffs; if not the music stops first week of January 2024. Once again we have a former DC HC who has no real idea how to fix an offense. You would think a guy who has been observing how offenses work to stop them would get that; Bellichick and Parcells are examples of guys who made that transition to coach the whole team and give the offense direction. But there aren't many around the NFL today who have done so. 

Once again, Robert Wood Johnson IV made a braindead hire as a HC. But "toughness" and what not. 

[southparkcpa]

3 hours ago, freestater said:

of course the guy who isn't here anymore is to blame. Zero accountability at One Jets Drive. 

Thank you Joe Douglas, Thank you.

[Matt39]

8 minutes ago, Phillyjet said:

And One Jets Drive is now openly leaking stuff.  Guys stabbing each other in the back.  Roll out the body bags for next offseason.  That’s what I get from this story.  

This was the off-season to reset. You have a handful of good players that could have allured someone you’d think. The eggs in one basket approach for Rodgers (which feels unlikely) is setting up for a total clusterF of a season.

Douglas had more than enough time to figure it out. It didn’t work and it ended with a 6 game losing streak. Any other org and that gets you fired. Next season is going to be a colossal waste of time. 

[Phillyjet]

Wonder who is turning the knife in Rex Hogan’s back?  He’s still in the building.  Killing LaFleur is convenient, but at least he’s gone from the cesspool.  I imagine JD is having a bad day.  Not his MO.  

[Patriot Killa]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Cimini tossing up an autopsy of the Zach Wilson collapse. The usual stuff: Zach sucked, poor leader, receivers hated him, hurt by the Mike White love, etc. The three juiciest tidbits below (first one sounds like they come from Douglas himself): 

1. There was heated debate about Zach. The scouts who were skeptical of him thought he was a three year project who should sit. Allegedly, LaFleur and Rex Hogan banged the table for him. 
 

2. Douglas did turn down fat offers for the 2 pick. (the Jets have always claimed they “never talked to San Fran” about the pick). In a piece written about Jalen Hurts a few weeks ago, it was reported that the Eagles were desperate to come up for Zach, but Douglas refused, and that’s how the Eagles ended up with Hurts.

3. Zach had become a disaster in practice. One player saying that he only completed three passes in practice before the Denver game. 
 

Fun piece, if anyone still thinks Zach has a chance here. 
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35602882/why-zach-wilson-new-york-jets-career-taken-off

Everything considered, the damage may be irreversible, as well as the trade value.
 

Yikes.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

3. Zach had become a disaster in practice. One player saying that he only completed three passes in practice before the Denver game. 

I was at the Denver game.

Couldn't believe how badly he was missing on the opening drive.  And it never really got better as the game went on.

And some of the sacks he was taking and the manner in which he was taking them were absolutely ridiculous.

[Matt39]

6 minutes ago, Phillyjet said:

Wonder who is turning the knife in Rex Hogan’s back?  He’s still in the building.  Killing LaFleur is convenient, but at least he’s gone from the cesspool.  I imagine JD is having a bad day.  Not his MO.  

I’m wondering if everyone knows Rodgers isn’t coming and this is a way to begin the CYA process. The off-season to move on from this front office was this one. The 6 game collapse was more than enough reason to. 

[TheClashFan]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

If you deconstruct what happened, I think the logical conclusion was that the right move was to: 1)  trade the pick and use the capital to draft an O line and skill players; 2) put Darnold or a mediocre veteran at QB; 3) wait for the O-line to mature and begin to play as above average group; 4) wait for the new O to be fully installed by the OC and become second nature to the players; 5) then, after the boxes for 1 through 4 have been checked, go find a young QB to become your starter - and make him win the job -  sitting him for a year if necessary.

The lesson to be learned? You can't rush some things. It takes a few years to build an Offense consistent and mature enough to put a rookie QB into and expect anything other than poor results and the development of bad habits.

Yeah, I think JD thought that AVT (who they were clearly targeting) would complete his OL rebuild, so after taking ZW at #2, he moved up with his other 1st round pick to get AVT. Why else would he move up to get a G rather than an OT?

At the end of the day, all this is on JD.  I guess it is just easier and cheaper to dump the OC at this time than ZW, who would incur a big cap hit.  I'd guess that JD will trade ZW if he can get a decent return for him, as unlikely as that seems.

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

4 minutes ago, Phillyjet said:

Wonder who is turning the knife in Rex Hogan’s back?  He’s still in the building.

Hogan sounds like the new Terry Bradway.

Clueless loser who somehow manages to skate like Teflon and span multiple regimes despite the never-ending failure and ineptitude.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

22 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Whose decision was it to draft Becton? Just as egregious as Wilson if not more. 

Disagree

Becton has been fine when he's been on the field

#11 pick OT

vs

#2 QB

You simply cannot afford to whiff on the latter.

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Disagree

Becton has been fine when he's been on the field

#11 pick OT

vs

#2 QB

You simply cannot afford to whiff on the latter.

QB whiff hurts more obviously. The process that any team has in place that could lead to the selection of Becton with Wirfs on the board is a broken and or lazy process. 

[Paradis]

Can't recall being more disinterested in an offseason.... despite being in the best position in forever to be a good team if we can find a QB...

I'm bored with the predictability of past bad decisions. The redundancy of ineptitude is anticlimactic at this point... Zach Wilson a reach? gee... MLF being in over his head? Who knew... Lack of accountability from Staff?... Never heard of that... late season implosion... Free Agency blues.. 

*yawn* 

[rex-n-effect]

I can believe LaFleur looked at ZW's raw athleticism and thought he could mold him into a functional pocket passer with no experience developing QBs. LaFleur strikes me as a guy with very little self-awareness. I can also believe this is rumor to pass blame to somebody who isn't with the team anymore. 

Sitting here today it's kinda better if this is true because it means there is a glimmer of hope that ZW was so bad in large part due to LaFleur. Maybe a new OC can at least make ZW a serviceable backup for the remaining two years guaranteed on his contract.

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Micah Parson's #11 in green and white would be looking better than Mims (current wearer of the #11) right now

Douglas also passed on Chase, Sewell, and DeVonta Smith in order to have his pet project

[freestater]

31 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Whose decision was it to draft Becton? Just as egregious as Wilson if not more. 

With Wirfs right there? Totally. I can almost forgive the swing-for-the-fences approach to Wilson. Taking a flier on Becton with a guy like Wirfs on the board is incompetence 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Lots of inconsistencies with this story, though. LaFleur wanted him, but was also the guy pushing to bench him? And Douglas was powerless to 1. Not take a deal, 2. Trade Darnold two days after the Pro Day and 3. Not bring in a vet? Sounds like a lot of CYA over there

Maybe I worded it poorly in my haste to make a funny. None of this is to shield Douglas from criticism. He's still the GM. He appropriately gets credit for the picks when they work out - not the scout or asst GM - so he rightfully gets the blame when they don't. But it's not unreasonable to take heavy guidance from the guy hired to run the offense just as he wants it. Then again more credence should be given to an OC hire who's actually installed & all by himself run an offense before. Never mind the lack of a vet better than Flacco.

I'm fine with dumping Darnold when he did. Darnold sucked, and if anything that should have only upped the ante for the #2 pick. I'd rather they draft a QB earlier & have him sit on the bench than wait until we're ready for the next guy to start and presume any draft pick is ready to start week 1 (as they did). But no way do I value 1 more year of Darnold over 6th in the current year plus a 2nd & 4th the following season (which turned into top 10 picks in those rounds, in no small part because Darnold was their QB, plus Cam in the annual missed games from Darnold). 

If he followed LaFleur's advice & Wilson was what everyone hoped, Douglas would get credit for pulling that trigger not LaFleur. But it's also hard to imagine LaFleur pulled so hard for ZW and wasn't also so adamant that ZW is the starter so picking up a better veteran QB was a total waste of resources.

Douglas gets credit, as he should, for not putting too many eggs into the Jamal Adams basket. He gets the same proportional criticism for putting too many eggs into the Zach Wilson basket.