Missing out on OL in the Draft: e.g. Le'raven Clark OT

[David Harris]

He's my "we almost had him" guy that fell in the draft.

I think we were all a little surprised that OL wasn't addressed more in the draft.  I harbor a guess that Maccagnan was surprised too and perhaps that's why he traded the 2017 4th to get back into the 5th round this year to take Shell.  I think he had Shell as a 4th round talent so he therefore was worth a 4th rounder and with the average 3 year GM shelf-life in the NFL they'd get an extra year of development out of a pick who, if things fall right, could be a starting RT prospect.

 

Overall for OL I don't think Mac got outsmarted the board just didn't fall right.  The Colts took a highly rated OL right in front of us a couple times.  Kelly (C) in the first at #18.  I've been championing replacing Mangold's aging $9 million center salary but not at the cost of a first round pick so I think we still would've taken Lee.

The Texans, knowing Mangold's contract and age, jumped us and only us in the 2nd round to get get ahead to take Nick Martin (C).  However, it appears fairly clear now that Hackenberg was going to be our 2nd round pick no matter what so no OL there.  Reportedly, Mac did try to trade down knowing he could get Hack later in the 2nd but there was no tango.

Then in the 3rd, Max Tuerk (C) went early, a little bit later Shon Coleman the big RT from Auburn but then the pick right before ours the Colts take LeRaven Clark (OT) a perfect 3rd round gem good-chance-10-year-starting RT, great value, good need.  That one was a shot in the balls for me, a fairly low risk big upside pick that would've freed up Giaco's $5 mill.  By most accounts, our pick Jordan Jenkins (OLB) was very good value.  However, on 2 different post-draft interviews Mac has said that, "sometimes in the draft your guy gets literally drafted the pick before you" kind of hinting that happened this year and I keep thinking it was Le'Raven Clark.

Solid draft.  It will be judged on however the QB turns out as expected.  I'm disappointed we didn't get more quality OL but what I'm saying is that I understand based on how the board fell.  And yes, there are those that will say we could've traded up for some of those guys but frankly, I'd rather have kept the picks as we already didn't have a 5th and 6th.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Larz]

me too, I was super bummed he was taken

[TuscanyTile2]

Surprised the Ravens didn't take him

[Raideraholic]

6 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Surprised the Ravens didn't take him

Why he is horrible , and is going to have major problem in pass protection.    He was abused at the Senior bowl. 

[cant wait]

Art shell was a great player, hopefully his nephew can live up to his name 

[JetFreak89]

I agree 100%. It seemed the first few rounds there were good O-Line prospects about to fall only to see them taken right before us:

Round 1 - Pick 13 - Tunsil; Pick 16 - Decker; Pick 18 - Kelly

Round 2 - Pick 17 - Spriggs; Pick 19 - Martin

Round 3 - Pick 13 - Coleman; Pick 15 - Thuney; Pick 16 - Seumalo; Pick 19 - Clark .....etc.

 

I knew after the draft some fans would be roasting Mac about not getting top O-linemen but sometimes the board just doesn't fall your way. 

[Greenseed4]

I was secretly glad he wasn't there in the 3rd, which made taking Jordan Jenkins all that much better. 

[varjet]

The Jets won too many games last year.   Everyone wants OL.

[David Harris]

17 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

I was secretly glad he wasn't there in the 3rd, which made taking Jordan Jenkins all that much better. 

Jenkins and Clark play different positions but we'll compare their career trajectories over the years.

 In the short-term, for as much complaining we've done about the lack of O-line help, OLB was actually more of an immediate need. I mean we had no one opposite Mauldin ( Who BTW despite flashing is kinda a default starter himself).  But it contributes to the overall offense neglect.

[NYs Stepchild]

7 hours ago, David Harris said:

Jenkins and Clark play different positions but we'll compare their career trajectories over the years.

 In the short-term, for as much complaining we've done about the lack of O-line help, OLB was actually more of an immediate need. I mean we had no one opposite Mauldin ( Who BTW despite flashing is kinda a default starter himself).  But it contributes to the overall offense neglect.

We're going to need one of our guys to develop this year.

Winters, Dozier, Harrison, Qvale, Ijalana...somebody.

[32EBoozer]

8 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

We're going to need one of our guys to develop this year.

Winters, Dozier, Harrison, Qvale, Ijalana...somebody.

There comes a time when "Development" player needs to turn into solid contributor.

Winters, last yr. of contract, is a more good than bad contributor. Dozier, going into yr. 3 is a non-contributor and Harrison 2nd yr has offered nothing.

Big yr. for Winters with a contract on the line. Open door at RT for Qvale.... needs to step up.

[Colgateman]

8 hours ago, JetFreak89 said:

I agree 100%. It seemed the first few rounds there were good O-Line prospects about to fall only to see them taken right before us:

Round 1 - Pick 13 - Tunsil; Pick 16 - Decker; Pick 18 - Kelly

Round 2 - Pick 17 - Spriggs; Pick 19 - Martin

Round 3 - Pick 13 - Coleman; Pick 15 - Thuney; Pick 16 - Seumalo; Pick 19 - Clark .....etc.

 

I knew after the draft some fans would be roasting Mac about not getting top O-linemen but sometimes the board just doesn't fall your way. 

In the second teams jumped us for them too

[NYs Stepchild]

1 hour ago, 32EBoozer said:

There comes a time when "Development" player needs to turn into solid contributor.

Winters, last yr. of contract, is a more good than bad contributor. Dozier, going into yr. 3 is a non-contributor and Harrison 2nd yr has offered nothing.

Big yr. for Winters with a contract on the line. Open door at RT for Qvale.... needs to step up.

Some of these guys were regarded as highly as the ones we missed out on this year. Sooner or later we have to hit on one of them, or we're doing something wrong. I'm not asking for any one of them to pan out, Just anyone of them. 

I don't know how they would have shown us anything. We see them only in preseason. Harrison in particular we've only seen as a rookie. They're all still on the roster so they must have shown someone something. The fact that Qvale has shown promise has been leaking out. 

Really you don't know how a guy will do until you throw him out there. Hunter was supposed to be better than Howard until they actually played. Winters was going to be great out of college, and Slauson was a nobody. 

[Jetsfan80]

Well, we used a 2017 4th rounder to take Art Shell's nephew.  So clearly we saw something in him.  You don't need to take OL in the first three rounds to find success.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

It's obviously still a really small sample size but the past couple of drafts seem to reflect the kind of outmoded thinking you'd expect from a scout if your opinion of scouts was primarily informed by Moneyball. Using a first round pick on Darron Lee, for example, even though I like the player. One, it's inefficient to use a high pick on a position that's cheap to fill in free agency, and two, he's the smallest linebacker drafted in the first round in the last ten years besides Shaq Thompson. You could argue that Lee's is effectively a new position, a priority at that, and one for which he is in fact prototypical, and I do think all of that has merit, but it's tough to argue that the market actually reflects it yet. Hackenberg is obviously a disaster. There's very little reason to ever take a quarterback there given bust risk versus opportunity cost, let alone one with such bad numbers and tape, especially if you like him only enough to disregard the value proposition, the completion percentage, and the lol throws but not so much as to proactively lock him up instead of sitting back and letting things play out or at least refrain from trying to trade the pick away. Then with Shell, basically every study that's been done on the relative value of draft picks concludes that the discount rate applied to future picks is too high. This all conveys the impression of a war room full of fat guys chewing tobacco and winging it.

[slats]

Interesting analysis. At first, I was concerned this was gonna be another thread whining about the OL, and I'm grateful that it wasn't. Clark very well could've been his guy there. Would've made a lot of sense, obviously, for the Jets. At the time, I was a little surprised they took a second LB in round three. While Jenkins also potentially fills a big need, I felt like it was pure BAP there. 

[Stonehands]

If I am not mistaken, people traded in front of us in the first and second round to grab centers.  There must have been intelligence out there that we were looking to draft a Mangold replacement.

[Villain The Foe]

I dont know much about Clark, but I think the Jets did an excellent job getting Kyle Friend. And if Brandon Shell turns out to be something this season we'll be okay. I think Kyle Friend will be our future Center.

[Mainejet]

I was actually mortified that he didn't start overhauling the draft. IMO, this is the probably the biggest reason why the Jets will not be a good team in 2016. There were several choices for OL that Mac could have made and chose not to bite on a single one except to mortgage our future drafts on a role player that needs time to be developed. This draft sucked pure and simple and I believe it is going to show almost immediately when the season begins.

What about trading Mo? That would have most certainly provided us with a pick that could have been used for an OL prospect. Now, the Jets will get nothing for Mo except a sh*tty 3rd round compensatory pick. The facts is, Mac screwed the pooch on this draft. I truly believe that after this season there will be many fans questioning him and what he did during this offseason.

[slats]

7 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

I was actually mortified that he didn't start overhauling the draft. IMO, this is the probably the biggest reason why the Jets will not be a good team in 2016. There were several choices for OL that Mac could have made and chose not to bite on a single one except to mortgage our future drafts on a role player that needs time to be developed. This draft sucked pure and simple and I believe it is going to show almost immediately when the season begins.

What about trading Mo? That would have most certainly provided us with a pick that could have been used for an OL prospect. Now, the Jets will get nothing for Mo except a sh*tty 3rd round compensatory pick. The facts is, Mac screwed the pooch on this draft. I truly believe that after this season there will be many fans questioning him and what he did during this offseason.

Don't you have to go kick your dog or something? 

[Dcat]

7 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

I was actually mortified that he didn't start overhauling the draft. IMO, this is the probably the biggest reason why the Jets will not be a good team in 2016. There were several choices for OL that Mac could have made and chose not to bite on a single one except to mortgage our future drafts on a role player that needs time to be developed. This draft sucked pure and simple and I believe it is going to show almost immediately when the season begins.

What about trading Mo? That would have most certainly provided us with a pick that could have been used for an OL prospect. Now, the Jets will get nothing for Mo except a sh*tty 3rd round compensatory pick. The facts is, Mac screwed the pooch on this draft. I truly believe that after this season there will be many fans questioning him and what he did during this offseason.

It was a solid draft with multiple needs addressed.  But never mind reality.  When a guy like you wants to whine, there is no stopping it.  But geez... must you incessantly repeat yourself?  I think everyone here understands your view.  Are you repeating yourself over and over and over waiting for someone to agree with you?  Come on.  Give us a break.  That's not going to happen anytime soon.

 

[Augustiniak]

1 hour ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

It's obviously still a really small sample size but the past couple of drafts seem to reflect the kind of outmoded thinking you'd expect from a scout if your opinion of scouts was primarily informed by Moneyball. Using a first round pick on Darron Lee, for example, even though I like the player. One, it's inefficient to use a high pick on a position that's cheap to fill in free agency, and two, he's the smallest linebacker drafted in the first round in the last ten years besides Shaq Thompson. You could argue that Lee's is effectively a new position, a priority at that, and one for which he is in fact prototypical, and I do think all of that has merit, but it's tough to argue that the market actually reflects it yet. Hackenberg is obviously a disaster. There's very little reason to ever take a quarterback there given bust risk versus opportunity cost, let alone one with such bad numbers and tape, especially if you like him only enough to disregard the value proposition, the completion percentage, and the lol throws but not so much as to proactively lock him up instead of sitting back and letting things play out or at least refrain from trying to trade the pick away. Then with Shell, basically every study that's been done on the relative value of draft picks concludes that the discount rate applied to future picks is too high. This all conveys the impression of a war room full of fat guys chewing tobacco and winging it.

what is with all the whining?

[Augustiniak]

30 minutes ago, Stonehands said:

If I am not mistaken, people traded in front of us in the first and second round to grab centers.  There must have been intelligence out there that we were looking to draft a Mangold replacement.

the colts picked at 18 and took kelly, nobody traded ahead of the jets.  the jets weren't taking a center in the first or second rounds this year.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Don't you have to go kick your dog or something? 

I dunno. He's done a pretty good job of getting out in front of this whole Darron Lee thing. Kind of reminds me of the bedlam that ensued when nine million anonymous goofballs all tried to position themselves as that guy who always knew Adrien Clarke was gonna be great.

[section314]

14 hours ago, David Harris said:

He's my "we almost had him" guy that fell in the draft.

I think we were all a little surprised that OL wasn't addressed more in the draft.  I harbor a guess that Maccagnan was surprised too and perhaps that's why he traded the 2017 4th to get back into the 5th round this year to take Shell.  I think he had Shell as a 4th round talent so he therefore was worth a 4th rounder and with the average 3 year GM shelf-life in the NFL they'd get an extra year of development out of a pick who, if things fall right, could be a starting RT prospect.

 

Overall for OL I don't think Mac got outsmarted the board just didn't fall right.  The Colts took a highly rated OL right in front of us a couple times.  Kelly (C) in the first at #18.  I've been championing replacing Mangold's aging $9 million center salary but not at the cost of a first round pick so I think we still would've taken Lee.

The Texans, knowing Mangold's contract and age, jumped us and only us in the 2nd round to get get ahead to take Nick Martin (C).  However, it appears fairly clear now that Hackenberg was going to be our 2nd round pick no matter what so no OL there.  Reportedly, Mac did try to trade down knowing he could get Hack later in the 2nd but there was no tango.

Then in the 3rd, Max Tuerk (C) went early, a little bit later Shon Coleman the big RT from Auburn but then the pick right before ours the Colts take LeRaven Clark (OT) a perfect 3rd round gem good-chance-10-year-starting RT, great value, good need.  That one was a shot in the balls for me, a fairly low risk big upside pick that would've freed up Giaco's $5 mill.  By most accounts, our pick Jordan Jenkins (OLB) was very good value.  However, on 2 different post-draft interviews Mac has said that, "sometimes in the draft your guy gets literally drafted the pick before you" kind of hinting that happened this year and I keep thinking it was Le'Raven Clark.

Solid draft.  It will be judged on however the QB turns out as expected.  I'm disappointed we didn't get more quality OL but what I'm saying is that I understand based on how the board fell.  And yes, there are those that will say we could've traded up for some of those guys but frankly, I'd rather have kept the picks as we already didn't have a 5th and 6th.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I honestly believe if Ryan Kelly had made it to #20, he was the pick. Would have been rt. guard this year, then our center for the next 10 years. 

[Xtina]

Can't believe he lasted as long as he did

[JetBlue]

7 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

We're going to need one of our guys to develop this year.

Winters, Dozier, Harrison, Qvale, Ijalana...somebody.

Add the player who was drafted; Brandon Shell.  Harrison should push Winters and Shell could surprise at RT.  

[Beerfish]

LeRaven Clark is going to suck.  He's a tackle version of hackenburg.  Passes all the eyes tests looks like he would be a great player body wise but is not good.

[Snell41]

4 hours ago, Mainejet said:

I was actually mortified that he didn't start overhauling the draft. IMO, this is the probably the biggest reason why the Jets will not be a good team in 2016. There were several choices for OL that Mac could have made and chose not to bite on a single one except to mortgage our future drafts on a role player that needs time to be developed. This draft sucked pure and simple and I believe it is going to show almost immediately when the season begins.

What about trading Mo? That would have most certainly provided us with a pick that could have been used for an OL prospect. Now, the Jets will get nothing for Mo except a sh*tty 3rd round compensatory pick. The facts is, Mac screwed the pooch on this draft. I truly believe that after this season there will be many fans questioning him and what he did during this offseason.

You might want to blow the dust off your needle, you keep skipping and repeating the same thing over and over. 

[NYs Stepchild]

4 hours ago, Mainejet said:

I was actually mortified that he didn't start overhauling the draft. IMO, this is the probably the biggest reason why the Jets will not be a good team in 2016. There were several choices for OL that Mac could have made and chose not to bite on a single one except to mortgage our future drafts on a role player that needs time to be developed. This draft sucked pure and simple and I believe it is going to show almost immediately when the season begins.

What about trading Mo? That would have most certainly provided us with a pick that could have been used for an OL prospect. Now, the Jets will get nothing for Mo except a sh*tty 3rd round compensatory pick. The facts is, Mac screwed the pooch on this draft. I truly believe that after this season there will be many fans questioning him and what he did during this offseason.

You were actually mortified? I have never once been mortified. Something tells me you've spent much of your life in this state. 

[derp]

Not sure where the low-risk stuff on Clark is coming from. It's pretty well documented that he's coming out of a system where he never really had to have his hand in the dirt and is an absolute mess from a technique standpoint. Not a plug and play guy at all.

I feel like their guy was Shaq Lawson. This is my baseless theory and I will continue to stick with it. My guess is that they wanted Lawson or Jenkins (but probably had a third contingency option if Jenkins was gone in the third since that seemed very possible and they obviously wanted Hackenberg). Part of why they said nothing about Mauldin. If they got Lawson he was going to be a strong side guy, Jenkins or another guy (like Fackrell) and he's the weak side. That's my guess anyway. 

There were rumors they wanted Pharoh Cooper as well, wouldn't be surprised if they were sniped on him.

[SenorGato]

23 minutes ago, derp said:

Not sure where the low-risk stuff on Clark is coming from. It's pretty well documented that he's coming out of a system where he never really had to have his hand in the dirt and is an absolute mess from a technique standpoint. Not a plug and play guy at all.

I feel like their guy was Shaq Lawson. This is my baseless theory and I will continue to stick with it. My guess is that they wanted Lawson or Jenkins (but probably had a third contingency option if Jenkins was gone in the third since that seemed very possible and they obviously wanted Hackenberg). Part of why they said nothing about Mauldin. If they got Lawson he was going to be a strong side guy, Jenkins or another guy (like Fackrell) and he's the weak side. That's my guess anyway. 

There were rumors they wanted Pharoh Cooper as well, wouldn't be surprised if they were sniped on him.

Agreed all around

I don't feel Clark is some dramatically better or safer OL prospect than Shell. Definitely think Lawson would have been the pick at 20, and I remember them being tied to Cooper in January or February.

[derp]

47 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Agreed all around

I don't feel Clark is some dramatically better or safer OL prospect than Shell. Definitely think Lawson would have been the pick at 20, and I remember them being tied to Cooper in January or February.

Also as I think about it there are some parallels between Jalin Marshall and Cooper (below average height, good weight, below average timed speed, good in space). So kind of fits a mold they might have been looking to add on offense.

[SenorGato]

19 minutes ago, derp said:

Also as I think about it there are some parallels between Jalin Marshall and Cooper (below average height, good weight, below average timed speed, good in space). So kind of fits a mold they might have been looking to add on offense.

*shakes fist at Rams for landing Tavon Austin*

[derp]

9 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

*shakes fist at Rams for landing Tavon Austin*

That draft was so, so bad.

Though in retrospect the Jets could have come out of it with Sheldon and Tyler Eifert which would have been pretty sweet.

Just looked at it again. Man that was a truly awful draft.

On the flip side the Jets could have also come out in round 2 with Jamie Collins and 3 with Terron Armstead. 

Obviously this is easy in hindsight, though I liked basically all of those guys. Sheldon less than most of them based on need although I was on board with bringing in a freak athlete on the DL post draft. And to be fair I did like Austin too. And overall that draft was really weak. But man, some huge missed opportunities.

Martavis Bryant getting passed up in the 4th round of the 2014 draft for Jalen Saunders AND Shaq Evans will always sting the most though. Because Martavis was the guy I wanted in the 4th that year in addition to the obvious hindsight being 20/20 aspect of things and the whole taking two crappy WR's instead of a good one despite the coach's massive Clemson bias.

I'm done.