Fitz and his Tough Opponents

[j4jets]

Rankings based on passing yards allowed.

Week 1: Browns - 22nd pass D, 30th ranked QB rating allowed - 179 yards, 2 TDs, 1 int.
Week 2: @ Colts - 24th pass D - 244 yards, 2 TDs, 1 int.
Week 3: Eagles - 28th pass D, 18th ranked QB rating allowed - 283 yards, 2 TDs, 3 ints.
Week 4: @ Dolphins - 21st pass D, 24th ranked QB rating allowed - 218 yards, TD, int
Week 6: Redskins - 25th pass D, 22nd ranked QB rating allowed - 253 yards, 2 TDs, int
Week 7: @ Patriots - 17th pass D - 295 yards, 2 TDs
Week 8: @ Raiders - 26th pass D - Got hurt.
Week 9: Jaguars - 29th pass D, 23rd ranked QB rating allowed - 272 yards, 2 TDs
Week 10: Bills - 19th pass D - 193 yards, 44.1% completion, 2 TDs, 2 ints.
Week 11: @ Texans - 3rd pass D, 9th ranked QB rating allowed - 216 yards, 48.7% completion, TD, 2 ints
Week 12: Dolphins - 21st pass D, 24th ranked QB rating allowed - 277 yards, 4 TDs
Week 13: @ Giants - Worst pass D - 390 yards, 2 TDs
Week 14: Titans - 7th pass D, 29th ranked QB Rating allowed - 263 yards, 3 TDs
Week 15: @ Cowboys - 5th pass D, 20th ranked QB Rating allowed. 299 yards, TD, int
Week 16: Patriots - 17th pass D, 296 yards, 3 TDs
Week 17: @ Bills - 19th pass D, 181 yards, 43.2% completion, 2 TDs, 3 ints

13 Ds were ranked in the bottom 16 of the league. ONLY 3 teams had a passing D ranked higher than average. Two of those three teams allowed QB ratings ranked 29th and 20th (Titans 101.3, Cowboys 94.2). And here we are, folks praising Fitz like he's the 2nd coming of Jesus or something. Jesus.

[Villain The Foe]

Fitz had a respectable season for what it was. He was the #2 QB, came in and really made last season fun to watch as a fan. He most certainly had help given the talent on the Jets and the lack of talent we played against. However with that said, Fitz did what he needed to do for the most part. My only concern with Fitz is when the defense isnt holding the opposing team to 20 or less points. We have to win more of those games. Historically Fitz hasnt been that type of player to do so. Coming in with the best team he's had (or the Jets have fielded imo) yet having the same results in that area (1-6 against teams scoring 21 or more points) is the reason why I'd rather see what a younger Geno Smith can do. 

 

If someone posted a thread right now saying that the Jets signed Fitz for 7 million per I wouldnt argue with that. However, signing Fitz to the price that he's looking for AND guaranteeing him the starting role would be a complete joke in my eyes. 

 

Fitz had a nice season but not the type of season that guarantees 12+ million and an unchallenged starting position. Thats where I pump the breaks and begin to criticize using examples like what you presented above. 

Fitz performance deserves 7 million, maybe 8 given that the Jets do prefer Fitz as the QB, along with the opportunity to battle it out again just to make sure that the best QB is on the field.

If Fitz doesnt like that, then let him sit in free agency and find a team that agrees with his asking price. 

[Mainejet]

Fitz tough opponents are dingbats. Fitz put up great numbers last season and I don't care if he did every week last season against the 42nd ranked pass defense. The point is, he EARNED another season to be the Jets starting QB. That's how simple logic works - you reward those that are deserving.

Geno, on the other hand, played like sh*t for two straight seasons and then created an enormous amount of embarrassment for the Jets because he stiffed one of his teammates out of $600 and got knocked out. That is behavior that is very clearly not deserving.

So once again, at least in this instance, Mac GETS it unlike the dingbats that support Geno. Those are probably the same people that think wrestling is real...

[peebag]

17 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Fitz had a respectable season for what it was. He was the #2 QB, came in and really made last season fun to watch as a fan. He most certainly had help given the talent on the Jets and the lack of talent we played against. However with that said, Fitz did what he needed to do for the most part. My only concern with Fitz is when the defense isnt holding the opposing team to 20 or less points. We have to win more of those games. Historically Fitz hasnt been that type of player to do so. Coming in with the best team he's had (or the Jets have fielded imo) yet having the same results in that area (1-6 against teams scoring 21 or more points) is the reason why I'd rather see what a younger Geno Smith can do. 

 

If someone posted a thread right now saying that the Jets signed Fitz for 7 million per I wouldnt argue with that. However, signing Fitz to the price that he's looking for AND guaranteeing him the starting role would be a complete joke in my eyes. 

 

Fitz had a nice season but not the type of season that guarantees 12+ million and an unchallenged starting position. Thats where I pump the breaks and begin to criticize using examples like what you presented above. 

Fitz performance deserves 7 million, maybe 8 given that the Jets do prefer Fitz as the QB, along with the opportunity to battle it out again just to make sure that the best QB is on the field.

If Fitz doesnt like that, then let him sit in free agency and find a team that agrees with his asking price. 

You can always promise the job then re-neg - that's the 'Murica way!!!

[New York Mick]

damn you guys can't let sh*t go. 

[AFJF]

Yet the Jets still want to start him over Geno.  

[Warfish]

39 minutes ago, j4jets said:

And here we are, folks praising Fitz like he's the 2nd coming of Jesus or something. Jesus.

Can't say I've seen anyone do that.  At all.

/shrug

What I have seen is a spirited debate as to whom gives the Jets the best chance to win in the short term, and what the chance is worth (salary wise).  Opinions clearly and stringly differ on these points.

Generally, those who support Fitz do so primarily because they do not have any faith in Geno, and because Fitz (while limited) had a mostly professionally productive year last year playing the scedule his team had.

Generally, those who support Geno do so primarily because they don't want to pay for Fitz, or to a lesser degree think Geno has been treated "unfairly", wasn't given a "fair chance", and that we should "see what we have" in Geno "with talent around him" before we allow him to hit free agency.

Nowhere, in any of the many debates on Fitz, have I seen anyone considering Fitz as "the 2nd coming of Jesus".  At best, what most Fitz fans see Fitz as is a reasonable veteran placeholder for 2016 who can keep us competative, but is only needed till one of the two kids (Petty, Hack) win the job, or we draft someone else to win the job. 

[Rangers9]

When the Jets signed Fitz he was coming off of a broken leg and couldn't play until training camp. Geno was the incumbent starter and as via protocol was listed on top of the depth chart but was never officially named the starter. Fitz had just started 12 games for the Texans before his injury and generally played well. He was benched for Mallett because Bill O'Brien wanted to see how Mallett would do and then he got injured. The next season he released Mallett because he is a jerkoff and not that good a Qb. Anyways last summer there was going to be a Qb competition but it never happened. The guy played well, we won ten games and only got blown out in one. The rest of the games were losses by 7 points or less including against NEP at Foxboro. The Raiders game we got slaughtered in was mostly on the defense and helped make Carr's rep as a  potential franchise Qb. Geno played ok not even good. But the team didn't coalesce under him and played poorly. They never were that bad under Fitz including week 17. That's significant when the team plays a lot better with one Qb over the other.

 

 

[j4jets]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

When the Jets signed Fitz he was coming off of a broken leg and couldn't play until training camp. Geno was the incumbent starter and as via protocol was listed on top of the depth chart but was never officially named the starter. Fitz had just started 12 games for the Texans before his injury and generally played well. He was benched for Mallett because Bill O'Brien wanted to see how Mallett would do and then he got injured. The next season he released Mallett because he is a jerkoff and not that good a Qb. Anyways last summer there was going to be a Qb competition but it never happened. The guy played well, we won ten games and only got blown out in one. The rest of the games were losses by 7 points or less including against NEP at Foxboro. The Raiders game we got slaughtered in was mostly on the defense and helped make Carr's rep as a  potential franchise Qb. Geno played ok not even good. But the team didn't coalesce under him and played poorly. They never were that bad under Fitz including week 17. That's significant when the team plays a lot better with one Qb over the other.

 

 

There was a competition n Fitz was perfectly healthy in the training camp. He never challenged Geno's starting status. I don't really care why a coach would bench Fitz for Mallett. And Geno played really well against Raiders, considering he had no practice with the firsts. Raiders came out all guns blazing n Jets were in passing formation pretty much the entire game. We had 28 yards rushing from our RBs. N get this. We didn't have Powell. How good was Fitz without Powell? So yeah, Geno did play well compared to Fitz. 

[j4jets]

25 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Yet the Jets still want to start him over Geno.  

Exactly, that's why we have him locked up for the next 27 years. 

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, j4jets said:

Exactly, that's why we have him locked up for the next 27 years. 

One has nothing to do with the other. 

The comment I made was in regards to who the Jets prefer as their starting QB...that would be Fitz.

Your comment is in regards to how much they are willing to pay him.  We don't know what that number is, but I'll venture a guess that it's more than what Geno makes.

They want him more than Geno, and insiders are saying they're willing to pay him 7x more.

I can figure out what that means...can you?

 

 

[j4jets]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

One has nothing to do with the other. 

The comment I made was in regards to who the Jets prefer as their starting QB...that would be Fitz.

Your comment is in regards to how much they are willing to pay him.  We don't know what that number is, but I'll venture a guess that it's more than what Geno makes.

They want him more than Geno, and insiders are saying they're willing to pay him 7x more.

I can figure out what that means...can you?

 

 

I guess I need to start you off with Football 101 n how rookie wage scale works. Once you figure that out, please come back n discuss. 

PS. Fitz just collected his 11th unemployment check. That breaks his record of 10 wins I guess. 

[Greenseed4]

Um, Fitz is the REASON our opponents pass defenses were ranked so bad. 

[AFJF]

3 minutes ago, j4jets said:

I guess I need to start you off with Football 101 n how rookie wage scale works. Once you figure that out, please come back n discuss. 

PS. Fitz just collected his 11th unemployment check. That breaks his record of 10 wins I guess. 

That also has nothing to do with my comment.

I said they prefer Fitz to Geno and thy have said as much...about a million times.

Sorry.

 

 

[Beerfish]

For a fan base to blast or minimize the play at Qb last year after the 100% total sh*t we have had at the position for a decade in which the clowns behind center actively tossed games away left right and center no matter the opponent often in a most franchise humiliating fashion indicates that a good number of jets fans have the 'Better to look stupid than to admit I was wrong syndrome.'  Don't worry folks it is prevalent in all walks of life, so don't feel bad.

[Rangers9]

2 hours ago, j4jets said:

There was a competition n Fitz was perfectly healthy in the training camp. He never challenged Geno's starting status. I don't really care why a coach would bench Fitz for Mallett. And Geno played really well against Raiders, considering he had no practice with the firsts. Raiders came out all guns blazing n Jets were in passing formation pretty much the entire game. We had 28 yards rushing from our RBs. N get this. We didn't have Powell. How good was Fitz without Powell? So yeah, Geno did play well compared to Fitz. 

First Geno was never named the starter. It was supposed to be a competition. You're really trying to make the case that not having Bilal Powell hurt the Jets vs Oakland. As soon as Fitz left that game things went downhill. The facts are the team plays better with him than with Geno. Hows about no excuses for Geno. You get an opportunity you make the best out of it even with no reps in practice. Fitz had to work his way up from a 7th round draft pick to a starter and then back again after Buff cut him. No one handed him any job. Geno will get chances in his career maybe even be our starter this year. It's really on him with no excuses even if things don't go well with the team. I'm kind of shocked that there are actually fans of his. Maybe here there are but not in the real world.

[peekskill68]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Can't say I've seen anyone do that.  At all.

/shrug

What I have seen is a spirited debate as to whom gives the Jets the best chance to win in the short term, and what the chance is worth (salary wise).  Opinions clearly and stringly differ on these points.

Generally, those who support Fitz do so primarily because they do not have any faith in Geno, and because Fitz (while limited) had a mostly professionally productive year last year playing the scedule his team had.

Generally, those who support Geno do so primarily because they don't want to pay for Fitz, or to a lesser degree think Geno has been treated "unfairly", wasn't given a "fair chance", and that we should "see what we have" in Geno "with talent around him" before we allow him to hit free agency.

Nowhere, in any of the many debates on Fitz, have I seen anyone considering Fitz as "the 2nd coming of Jesus".  At best, what most Fitz fans see Fitz as is a reasonable veteran placeholder for 2016 who can keep us competative, but is only needed till one of the two kids (Petty, Hack) win the job, or we draft someone else to win the job. 

This is way too mature and logical for this board. You should be ashamed of yourself... 

[AFJF]

10 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

For a fan base to blast or minimize the play at Qb last year after the 100% total sh*t we have had at the position for a decade in which the clowns behind center actively tossed games away left right and center no matter the opponent often in a most franchise humiliating fashion indicates that a good number of jets fans have the 'Better to look stupid than to admit I was wrong syndrome.'  Don't worry folks it is prevalent in all walks of life, so don't feel bad.

@jgb said it best..."after years of eating dog food, we get one bite of a steak and start demanding filet mignon"

I said from the day Fitz arrived that it was going to be refreshing to have a competent QB under center.  Thats what I hoped for, and that's what we got.

He threw 562 passes last year, but the fans he upset by contributing to 10 wins only want to talk about 3 of them.

 

[Integrity28]

At this point, you idiots are having an argument with imaginary counter-points that nobody is making.

Stop with the new ******* threads about the same ******* sh*t. 

[j4jets]

42 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

For a fan base to blast or minimize the play at Qb last year after the 100% total sh*t we have had at the position for a decade in which the clowns behind center actively tossed games away left right and center no matter the opponent often in a most franchise humiliating fashion indicates that a good number of jets fans have the 'Better to look stupid than to admit I was wrong syndrome.'  Don't worry folks it is prevalent in all walks of life, so don't feel bad.

I simply presented facts. Facts that suggest Fitz isn't nearly as good as Fitznutz think he is. 

[joewilly12]

Tough opponents in 2015?  

The Jets had the easiest schedule in the NFL. 

[Patriot Killa]

6 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Tough opponents in 2015?  

The Jets had the easiest schedule in the NFL. 

Lol you didn't get it

[Smashmouth]

2 hours ago, j4jets said:

There was a competition n Fitz was perfectly healthy in the training camp. He never challenged Geno's starting status. I don't really care why a coach would bench Fitz for Mallett. And Geno played really well against Raiders, considering he had no practice with the firsts. Raiders came out all guns blazing n Jets were in passing formation pretty much the entire game. We had 28 yards rushing from our RBs. N get this. We didn't have Powell. How good was Fitz without Powell? So yeah, Geno did play well compared to Fitz. 

Fitz was not perfectly healthy until mid season. If you know anything about being in a cast it takes time for those muscles to get back in shape especially playing shape so don't claim Fitz was anything since you really don't know. What we did see was Fitz throwing getting stronger as the season went on which tells us he was probably battling a weak lower body early in the season due to the injury that has a big impact on your throwing motion and arm strength. I broke my leg playing football and was in an immobilization cast for a while. when I was able to remove that cast my leg was visibly smaller than the other leg and obviously weaker and I could not run like I used too. It took time to get that leg back up to speed so I can relate to the injury Fitz sustained. I'm not sure if he had surgery but if he did that would just intensify things.

[Smashmouth]

41 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

At this point, you idiots are having an argument with imaginary counter-points that nobody is making.

Stop with the new ******* threads about the same ******* sh*t. 

thank you

[Jetster]

Most of his yards in the Giants game came in the last 8 minutes. He played like dogsh*t for 3 & 1/2 quarters that put us in the hole we were in. The defense & the Giants kicker saved that game for us. Philly game was also brutal & he could have had 2/3 more picks they dropped. I'm ok with moving on.

[AFJF]

44 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

At this point, you idiots are having an argument with imaginary counter-points that nobody is making.

Stop with the new ******* threads about the same ******* sh*t. 

There you go again...please STOP comparing Fitz to Jesus!!!

[cant wait]

There was actually a decent article about this topic posted today

http://www.ganggreennation.com/2016/6/16/11955050/ny-jets-the-backup-plan

[Maxman]

3 hours ago, AFJF said:

Yet the Jets still want to start him over Geno.  

Do they?

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Do they?

They certainly have said so, but their actions to-date speak much louder.

[Sperm Edwards]

10 minutes ago, cant wait said:

There was actually a decent article about this topic posted today

http://www.ganggreennation.com/2016/6/16/11955050/ny-jets-the-backup-plan

 

Quote

 

One thing that jumps out is how Fitzpatrick's luck in facing top pass defenses has been the polar opposite of Geno Smith's. In 82 games since 2010, Fitzpatrick has faced only 22 top pass defenses.  That amounts to 27% of the games Fitzpatrick has played, a rate less than half of Geno's 58% games against top pass defenses.  In the last three years the numbers have been even more extreme, with Fitzpatrick facing top pass defenses in only 7 of the 38 games Fitzpatrick has played (excluding the 2015 Oakland game).  That amounts to only 18% of Fitzpatrick's games since 2013, a rate less than a third of Geno's 58%.  Perhaps unsurprisingly, this has been the best stretch of Fitzpatrick's career, by a fairly significant margin.

As one might expect from a journeyman quarterback, the results Fitzpatrick has produced against top pass defenses have not been inspiring.  Fitzpatrick's various teams have posted a 5-17 record in the 22 games he has faced a top pass defense.  On the road against top pass defenses the record is 2-10.  Fitzpatrick has not won a road game against a top pass defense since the middle of the 2012 season.  Nine of Fitzpatrick's 22 games against top pass defenses since 2010 have produced passer ratings of 72 or better.  Eight have produced more than 20 points.  Seven have produced more touchdowns than interceptions.  The overall record, while better than Smith's, is not exactly the stuff dreams are made of.

 

 

Yeah, no fooling. But hey, results against easy opposition is supposed to be insignificantly different than results against difficult opposition. Totally meaningless, totally meaningless, even though his career - his recent career - is filled with the polar opposite of opponent quality being totally meaningless. But hey, something something Rich Gannon something something. 

I'm actually rooting for the Jets to offer him 1 year at $8M, and for Fitz to accept it. Cut Breno to make the wasted money, shifted to 2017, down to only $3M. Better that than keeping Breno at $5M for one more non-SB season of blocking for Geno, followed by years of baseless what-would-have-beens. 

[Warfish]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah, no fooling. But hey, results against easy opposition is supposed to be insignificantly different than results against difficult opposition. Totally meaningless, totally meaningless, even though his career - his recent career - is filled with the polar opposite of opponent quality being totally meaningless. But hey, something something Rich Gannon something something. 

Pretty clear what excuse-making direction you'll be going in 2016 if Geno dissapoints.  

Quote

"It's not Geno, look at this IMPOSSIBLE schedule!  How could we expect Geno to succeed against these guys!  And really, does Geno REALLY have enough talent around him?  Hell no!  We need to give Geno a fair chance, put some actual talent around him, so we can see what we got in this kid, he simply MUST be resigned!"

Lol.

[Larz]

obv they were ranked so low because fitz raked 'em

[Sperm Edwards]

15 hours ago, Warfish said:

Pretty clear what excuse-making direction you'll be going in 2016 if Geno dissapoints.  

Lol.

See, that's where you're again wrong about me. Hard opponents will be no excuse for a 4th year Geno. If he can't beat good teams - or at least perform well in the event the D just lays a monstrous egg - he's useless as well, except maybe as an experienced backup or as a cheap placeholder until a really good starter is ready to be out there.

I can excuse such obstacles for a QB who's learning to play the position right out of college. Geno's in his 4th NFL season now, and Fitz his 12th. Neither gets any such excuses for repeated poor play.

What the hell good is it to have a starter who chiefly contributes to wins only against some (certainly not all) of the bad/depleted teams on our schedule, and fills the air with excuses on the balance? Makes some additional games against bad/depleted teams more enjoyable, I'll grant you, but it won't accomplish the ultimate goal. 

Last, this is about Fitz not Geno. If Fitz's acceptability is only measured by the first 3 seasons of Geno Smith's career, then it isn't worth too much.

[slats]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

Fitz was not perfectly healthy until mid season. If you know anything about being in a cast it takes time for those muscles to get back in shape especially playing shape so don't claim Fitz was anything since you really don't know. What we did see was Fitz throwing getting stronger as the season went on which tells us he was probably battling a weak lower body early in the season due to the injury that has a big impact on your throwing motion and arm strength. I broke my leg playing football and was in an immobilization cast for a while. when I was able to remove that cast my leg was visibly smaller than the other leg and obviously weaker and I could not run like I used too. It took time to get that leg back up to speed so I can relate to the injury Fitz sustained. I'm not sure if he had surgery but if he did that would just intensify things.

Meh. Mo Wilk broke his leg in the last game of last season, and he showed up to camp this week to demonstrate that he and his leg are ready to go six weeks before training camp begins. This idea that Fitz wasn't healthy until mid season is kinda bullsh!t. 

And he did have surgery (as did Wilk), which is designed to speed up the healing process, not "intensify things." 

[Smashmouth]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

Meh. Mo Wilk broke his leg in the last game of last season, and he showed up to camp this week to demonstrate that he and his leg are ready to go six weeks before training camp begins. This idea that Fitz wasn't healthy until mid season is kinda bullsh!t. 

And he did have surgery (as did Wilk), which is designed to speed up the healing process, not "intensify things." 

depends on the break and where it is and how long they wore a cast. Fitz Obviously threw the ball with much more velocity later in the year of course you are going to deny that but if you look at the video its pretty much obvious. As for Wilk he still has some way to go or he would not be at the facility working out. Your such a hater