Giants trade JPP

[bgivs21]

50 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think a large part of the reason they’d take a pass on a QB in the first place is that they think Davis Webb can play, which isn’t out of the question. I’d assume if Shurmur signs off on Webb, then why not trade down?

I get what you're saying but how could he have signed off on Webb? He's new to the org and hasn't seen him on any field yet.

[ASH1962]

2 hours ago, RSJ said:

 

It seems like no matter who the Giants select now they dont have a very clear direction into the future. They still have a shaky OL, no RB, shaky LBs and just got rid of their best pass rusher.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

and yet still have MUCH better personnel in place than we do

[ZachEY]

20 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Giants will still either:

1. Take a QB.

2. Take a BOATLOAD of Picks to Trade Down.

I see no way the Giants, sitting where they are in this draft, select a pass rusher or RB or the like.  As good as those kids might be, the value just isn;t there vs. either a Franchise QB replacement for Manning or half a draft's worth of pick compensation.

P.S. I don't think the Jets have enough left in draft picks to beat out what the Giants can get from say, Buffalo.  The Giants would/should be looking at 3x 1st Round Picks+ from what I've heard.

If the Giants want Barkley, they have to take them there.  Otherwise, this is completely correct.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Puts Bradley Chubb in play at #2.

Yup. And less need to trade down for more picks.

[k-met57]

31 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Giants will still either:

1. Take a QB.

2. Take a BOATLOAD of Picks to Trade Down.

I see no way the Giants, sitting where they are in this draft, select a pass rusher or RB or the like.  As good as those kids might be, the value just isn;t there vs. either a Franchise QB replacement for Manning or half a draft's worth of pick compensation.

P.S. I don't think the Jets have enough left in draft picks to beat out what the Giants can get from say, Buffalo.  The Giants would/should be looking at 3x 1st Round Picks+ from what I've heard.

i dont think there is any way the giants take a QB. taking someone like Rosen creates so many issues with the dynamic of the team...

- you are creating a rift with Eli that you just worked to fix, and you publically said eli can still play a couple of years if u get him the right weapons

- you are creating a no win situation for Eli, who as we know WILL throw 4 picks in a game by week 5...and will get distroyed by fans clammoring for the rookie

- and most importantly you are sending the message to the rest of the team that you are rebuilding...which will not sit well with the veterans on a team thats still a playoff team when healthy

- this is the same reason i dont think denver is taking a QB, those teams want players that can help them win now...not 2 years from now.

- i also dont think the giants trade out of 2, because i just dont think they want to go to 12 and take arden key or somenone like that. nelson, chubb, and barkley are potential all pros, anyone u get at 12 who knows

this is set up for the jets, we will have our pick of the second QB off the board.

[JetFaninMI]

Trading down is a big possibility now IMO. Denver has been mentioned but don't forget Buffalo. With those two 1st rounders and those 2 2nd rounders the Giants could land an RB at 12 and get a quality player with the other 1st. Add in those second rounders and they could have a ton of pics in the first three rounds. Makes sense if they are going full rebuild.

[RSJ]

21 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

and yet still have MUCH better personnel in place than we do

Not really. 

[Patriot Killa]

It seems they did this to free up the 19 million or so for OBJ and Collins next season. That’s what I got from it. That contract was ugly.

[Skeptable]

28 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

i dont think there is any way the giants take a QB. taking someone like Rosen creates so many issues with the dynamic of the team...

- you are creating a rift with Eli that you just worked to fix, and you publically said eli can still play a couple of years if u get him the right weapons

- you are creating a no win situation for Eli, who as we know WILL throw 4 picks in a game by week 5...and will get distroyed by fans clammoring for the rookie

- and most importantly you are sending the message to the rest of the team that you are rebuilding...which will not sit well with the veterans on a team thats still a playoff team when healthy

- this is the same reason i dont think denver is taking a QB, those teams want players that can help them win now...not 2 years from now.

- i also dont think the giants trade out of 2, because i just dont think they want to go to 12 and take arden key or somenone like that. nelson, chubb, and barkley are potential all pros, anyone u get at 12 who knows

this is set up for the jets, we will have our pick of the second QB off the board.

I agreed with you until you said Denver... Denver is taking a QB, no doubt, maybe not in the first if it falls badly for them but he will. Just the fact that they tried so hard in the beginning to get Cousins tells me they don't have a QB on staff.  Sure they signed Keenam to a short contract but he is not the future and Elway wants that star QB. If Mayfield is there they take him.  But I still think they are in play to trade up.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, prime21 said:

They wont trade Eli.  Although he is declining I don't think they want to take another PR hit.  HE can groom the next guy if they select a QB.  If not then Webb will continue to learn from him.

Oh don't misunderstand; I totally agree with you that for PR reasons they probably won't. I'm suggesting if they're drafting a QB - unless, of course, it's a less-polished one like Allen is supposed to be - it's arguably what they should do. You're either building a winner with Eli or you're not. If you're building a winner with him you don't burn the #2 pick in the country on a single player at his same position.

When is the time going to come, over Eli's final 2 contract years, when (say it's Darnold) the new QB beats out Eli for the starting job in a head-to-head competition? It's not going to come at all. Only way it happens is you have to wait for Eli to deserve a benching, which indirectly dictates your season is either in the toilet or you can't see the rookie. , and they don't need a divided locker room with half wanting one guy and half wanting the other. You show them: this is your guy, and barring injury this is the way it's going to be starting right now.

[Sperm Edwards]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

What’s the cap hit on this for the team that gets him? Isn’t it like $17 mil? Asking for a friend cough Jaguars 

Less. Giants already paid $5m in SB earlier this month IIRC (I looked it up a week or so ago). Then next year it'd be in the high teens. New team would just pay roster bonus and salary. Anything else (option bonus, signing bonus) gets charged to the Giants because that's who paid it.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I've said for months, they can't trade Eli. He's not good and his contract is atrocious. No one wants him. This wasn't a conscious decision by the Giants. Eli was overrated when he was young, now he's just an old turn over machine.

He's basically a high priced version of mccown, tyrod, mccarron, Keenum...

The only question that's relevant to us is whether the giants are high on Davis Webb or willing to ride with Eli and try to build an elite team around him with guys like Barkley, Odell, engram, Shepard...

Nope. His contract is awesome for a new team. 

[RESNewYork]

1 hour ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

This was plan B. And plan A ( signing a established cousins ) was much more desired then plan B. The jets tried very hard for cousins. There would be no high picks wasted for a guy we would “hope could one day “ play as well as Kirk cousins. But it’s hard to attract a qb to a team who doesn’t care about offense much. So that is why Mac knows he has to draft a qb. Plus I think gettleman wants to build a strong OL, support cast “ before “ he goes worrying about who is going to replace Eli eventually. 

Agree to disagree. Don't understand the logic of building the rest of the team when you're picking 2 in a QB rich draft. You're putting off the QB for future drafts, where you don't know who will be available and you don't know where you're picking? Because you have a 37 year old QB who has steadily regressed. Just so the rest of the team is fortified for a future unknown?

We know that Kirk Cousins rarely happens. Again you're putting off picking the QB for a future unknown free agent who you have no idea if they will sign with your team. You just moved JPP to try and dump salary for next year when OBJ and Landon Collins are up, and you're already up against the cap this season.

The only logical reason to me is they feel Webb is better than these 4 QBs, or they just don't like the top 4. For me any other reason makes no sense.

[SMC]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Also worth noting: Gettleman’s M.O. as a GM has been to come in and chop the heads off of popular vets. Eli is going to be one of those on the chopping block within the next two years. 

Note, if Getteman was going to do that he had his chance now.  Instead, he paid Eli a $5 mil roster bonus.  I don't think this JPP trade means anything else besides saving money.

[k-met57]

42 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

I agreed with you until you said Denver... Denver is taking a QB, no doubt, maybe not in the first if it falls badly for them but he will. Just the fact that they tried so hard in the beginning to get Cousins tells me they don't have a QB on staff.  Sure they signed Keenam to a short contract but he is not the future and Elway wants that star QB. If Mayfield is there they take him.  But I still think they are in play to trade up.

Denver never made Cousins an offer. You can argue they knew you were priced out but thats speculation...Elway said Keenum was his guy...you can choose to beleieve him or not...but...they enver offered anything to Cousins.

[Skeptable]

29 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

Denver never made Cousins an offer. You can argue they knew you were priced out but thats speculation...Elway said Keenum was his guy...you can choose to beleieve him or not...but...they enver offered anything to Cousins.

Short term Keenum is his guy for two years, if that... then what?  He is drafting a QB no doubt in my mind.

[k-met57]

3 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Short term Keenum is his guy for two years, if that... then what?  He is drafting a QB no doubt in my mind.

i dont think so. same as the giants, hard to justify to a veteran team with a 20m/year QB that wants playoffs next year, using a major asset to bring in someone who wont play.

[Skeptable]

5 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

i dont think so. same as the giants, hard to justify to a veteran team with a 20m/year QB that wants playoffs next year, using a major asset to bring in someone who wont play.

Sit Baker Mayfield, or Allen for two years while he learns the system. It's really not that hard to imagine. Elway comes from the generation that QBs sat for 2-3 years before they debuted. 

[SMC]

If Giants are trading with anyone, it's Denver.  Giants aren't trading with Buffalo and dropping to 12.  As EY mentioned, if they want Barkley, they have to take him at 2 because he's gone by Browns at 4.

I'm not convinced Giants take a QB if they stay at 2. 

Mayfield is not even in the equation at 3. Jets taking Rosen or Allen, depending on who falls to them.

[InstantClassic]

Mac looks like a genius in the Sheldon trade

[Rangers9]

It could put the Giants in line to trade back potentially with Buffalo. They could decide to draft a DL and a Qb. Or maybe give Davis Webb more time to develop and not draft a Qb.

[bla bla bla]

Denver moves to #2 for their 2nd this year and 2nd next year. Then the Giants trade #5 to Buffalo after Allen falls with the threat that the Cardinals are moving up and reel in Buffalo's 12, 22, and 2019 1st. They could set themselves up really nicely.

[jetstream23]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Puts Bradley Chubb in play at #2.

True, and it also means the Giants may be even less interested in moving down since they just accumulated two more draft picks this year.  Not sure that a win-now team is interested at all in trading down for additional picks, especially when they've just received more.

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, RESNewYork said:

Agree to disagree. Don't understand the logic of building the rest of the team when you're picking 2 in a QB rich draft. You're putting off the QB for future drafts, where you don't know who will be available and you don't know where you're picking? Because you have a 37 year old QB who has steadily regressed. Just so the rest of the team is fortified for a future unknown?

We know that Kirk Cousins rarely happens. Again you're putting off picking the QB for a future unknown free agent who you have no idea if they will sign with your team. You just moved JPP to try and dump salary for next year when OBJ and Landon Collins are up, and you're already up against the cap this season.

The only logical reason to me is they feel Webb is better than these 4 QBs, or they just don't like the top 4. For me any other reason makes no sense.

I don't think Gettleman wants to hear for the next 10 years, "Aren't you the guy who passed on those 3 Pro Bowl QBs back in 2018?"

[32EBoozer]

4 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

True, and it also means the Giants may be even less interested in moving down since they just accumulated two more draft picks this year.  Not sure that a win-now team is interested at all in trading down for additional picks, especially when they've just received more.

4 in the top 69 picks.... The cost for Buffalo just went up if they are looking to jump to #2.

 

Denver on the other hand is still in play if Elway wants a QB. Keenum only on a 2 yr. deal.

[bla bla bla]

One thing to note about Eli is that he has a no trade clause so the Giants be route is likely to cut him after this year. I think QB is very much in play for them at #2 but IMO if they like Webb a trade down would make a ton of sense given the haul they'd get from Buffalo.

[Warfish]

3 hours ago, k-met57 said:

i dont think there is any way the giants take a QB. taking someone like Rosen creates so many issues with the dynamic of the team...

- you are creating a rift with Eli that you just worked to fix, and you publically said eli can still play a couple of years if u get him the right weapons

- you are creating a no win situation for Eli, who as we know WILL throw 4 picks in a game by week 5...and will get distroyed by fans clammoring for the rookie

- and most importantly you are sending the message to the rest of the team that you are rebuilding...which will not sit well with the veterans on a team thats still a playoff team when healthy

- this is the same reason i dont think denver is taking a QB, those teams want players that can help them win now...not 2 years from now.

- i also dont think the giants trade out of 2, because i just dont think they want to go to 12 and take arden key or somenone like that. nelson, chubb, and barkley are potential all pros, anyone u get at 12 who knows

this is set up for the jets, we will have our pick of the second QB off the board.

Be good for us if you're right and I'm wrong, so I hope you're right.  We'll see.

Got to say tho, it's interesting reading the whole thread and seeing how may use "win now team" to describe the what, 3 win NY Giants?  Other than Eli once being a possible HOF QB, what on earth makes the Giants a "win now" team today?  say it or not, they are in a rebuild as we speak.  With a QB who I'd wager will not be a NY Giant on opening day 2019.

[Beerfish]

3 hours ago, k-met57 said:

i dont think there is any way the giants take a QB. taking someone like Rosen creates so many issues with the dynamic of the team...

- you are creating a rift with Eli that you just worked to fix, and you publically said eli can still play a couple of years if u get him the right weapons

- you are creating a no win situation for Eli, who as we know WILL throw 4 picks in a game by week 5...and will get distroyed by fans clammoring for the rookie

- and most importantly you are sending the message to the rest of the team that you are rebuilding...which will not sit well with the veterans on a team thats still a playoff team when healthy

- this is the same reason i dont think denver is taking a QB, those teams want players that can help them win now...not 2 years from now.

- i also dont think the giants trade out of 2, because i just dont think they want to go to 12 and take arden key or somenone like that. nelson, chubb, and barkley are potential all pros, anyone u get at 12 who knows

this is set up for the jets, we will have our pick of the second QB off the board.

- The Giants just won two games, two friggin games.  They wont give a fug whoa Eli thinks, he is going to be there for a year or two and he is no great shakes now.  He is a couple years younger than mccown and at this point not all that much better.

- They ARE rebuilding.

- If the new GM is not taking franchise QB at 2 becasue he is afraid of hurting the teams feelings and elis feelings he is a sheer and utter moron.

- You simply do not get the chance to sit where you are and take one of the top QBs often.  You usually pay through the nose.  So unless the GM feels they are going to win the super bowl in the next year or so.  (not liikely) he will have missed out.

- Hey I will be overjoyed if they pick a non QB it would be great for us but I don;t see it.  They could trade out for lots of picks though.

[MDL_JET]

13 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Be good for us if you're right and I'm wrong, so I hope you're right.  We'll see.

Got to say tho, it's interesting reading the whole thread and seeing how may use "win now team" to describe the what, 3 win NY Giants?  Other than Eli once being a possible HOF QB, what on earth makes the Giants a "win now" team today?  say it or not, they are in a rebuild as we speak.  With a QB who I'd wager will not be a NY Giant on opening day 2019.

They dealt with injuries to most of their WR's, the HC was a mess, and many believe they just need to fix the oline and get a run game going.  Back to the playoffs they go. 

 

[Warfish]

Just now, MDL_JET said:

They dealt with injuries to most of their WR's, the HC was a mess, and many believe they just need to fix the oline and get a run game going.  Back to the playoffs they go. 

Running Backs and solid O-Linemen can be found in later rounds too.  

 

[MDL_JET]

Just now, Warfish said:

Running Backs and solid O-Linemen can be found in later rounds too.  

 

Sure can, but that's what the talk is. Pair the "best RB in the last decade" with Eli, OBJ/Shepard, Engram and you've got one hell of an offense. 

[bgivs21]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

- The Giants just won two games, two friggin games.  They wont give a fug whoa Eli thinks, he is going to be there for a year or two and he is no great shakes now.  He is a couple years younger than mccown and at this point not all that much better.

- They ARE rebuilding.

- If the new GM is not taking franchise QB at 2 becasue he is afraid of hurting the teams feelings and elis feelings he is a sheer and utter moron.

- You simply do not get the chance to sit where you are and take one of the top QBs often.  You usually pay through the nose.  So unless the GM feels they are going to win the super bowl in the next year or so.  (not liikely) he will have missed out.

- Hey I will be overjoyed if they pick a non QB it would be great for us but I don;t see it.  They could trade out for lots of picks though.

Three years ago Eli threw for 4,400 yards 35 TDs 14 Ints

Two years go Eli threw for 4000 yards 26 TDs 16 Ints

Last year Eli threw for 3,500 yards 19 TD 13 Ints

He is not far removed from playing high quality football. The biggest difference is the Giants never addressed his o-line. For years everyone has said the way to beat the Pats is to get to Brady and disrupt his timing & get some hits on him. Now Eli is not Brady, but they are the same type of player - a pocket passer.

People need to remember that a GM's job is constantly in jeopardy. Why would Gettlemen draft a QB at 2 & wait for him to develop when he has a player who has shown he can play some really good football when protected & a roster with talent that is ready to win now. As fans we look at the situation out to 10-15 years. But as a GM whose job security depends on how the team performs NOW, it doesn't make sense for them to go QB IMO.

[jvill 51]

15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Be good for us if you're right and I'm wrong, so I hope you're right.  We'll see.

Got to say tho, it's interesting reading the whole thread and seeing how may use "win now team" to describe the what, 3 win NY Giants?  Other than Eli once being a possible HOF QB, what on earth makes the Giants a "win now" team today?  say it or not, they are in a rebuild as we speak.  With a QB who I'd wager will not be a NY Giant on opening day 2019.

Not going to go back and read through the thread nor am I going to speak for anyone else, but this isn’t about what anyone here personally thinks of the Giants. Rather, it all hinges on how Giants ownership and management perceives the team. There’s a strong case to be made that the Giants see themselves as a “win now” team. The moves they’ve made this offseason (Ogletree, Solder, Stewart) along with the fact that their new 67 year old GM isn’t getting any younger suggest that this may be the case, as does the seemingly renewed commitment to Eli (though this could just be coachspeak) and Gettleman’s repeated insistence that when you’re picking at number 2 you need to get a hall of fame type player.

Then there is the fan angle. While the Giants are not typically the team that bends to the whims of their fan base like the Jets do, I don’t think the Giants ownership group has ever experienced the type of backlash that they received last season over the benching of Eli. The play on the field was certainly the bigger factor, but the fans’ reaction to the Eli benching played a large role in ownerships’ decision to fire McAdoo and Reese at the end of the year.

By and large the Giants fans see this as a quick fix, a retool rather than a rebuild. The Eagles just won a Super Bowl and the fans are not going to be happy if the Giants do not do everything in their power to surround Eli with impact players so he can make a run at a 3rd ring over the next few years. They think Eli has another 3-4 years left. Whether the Giants front office feels the same is the question. 

To me this is all crazy talk. The Giants were abysmal last year. They haven’t scored over 30 points in a game in the past two seasons. They’re deluding themselves if they think Eli has anything more than a year or two left, if he’s not actually done already. They have a golden opportunity to set themselves up for the next 10-15 years.

If the Giants were rational they take the QB. But there’s certainly a chance that they’re not rational and they go for the quick fix.

[Beerfish]

14 minutes ago, bgivs21 said:

Three years ago Eli threw for 4,400 yards 35 TDs 14 Ints

Two years go Eli threw for 4000 yards 26 TDs 16 Ints

Last year Eli threw for 3,500 yards 19 TD 13 Ints

He is not far removed from playing high quality football. The biggest difference is the Giants never addressed his o-line. For years everyone has said the way to beat the Pats is to get to Brady and disrupt his timing & get some hits on him. Now Eli is not Brady, but they are the same type of player - a pocket passer.

People need to remember that a GM's job is constantly in jeopardy. Why would Gettlemen draft a QB at 2 & wait for him to develop when he has a player who has shown he can play some really good football when protected & a roster with talent that is ready to win now. As fans we look at the situation out to 10-15 years. But as a GM whose job security depends on how the team performs NOW, it doesn't make sense for them to go QB IMO.

Fitzpatrick threw for over 30 tds and 3900 yards a few years ago.

As i said in another thread, one reason they have to have an ironclad oline is the QB has zero mobility and collapses is the rush is there. 

Why would gettleman draft a QB at 2? 

- You almost never get to 2 and have a chance to draft a franchise Qb.

- Your starter is 37 years old and near the end of the road, even if you can wring another couple years out of him.

- some of you guys seem to be forgetting just how hard it is to get that top end Qb we have been searching for for years.  We had to trade 3 2nd rounders just to get the 3rd best Qb in this draft.

- The giants are no 'close to going all the way' as i said i hope like heck he does what you guys think he is going to do.  It will be great for the Jets and very dumb for the giants long term.

[MehlFreeman]

Hi  everyone! Long time viewer. Couldn't read any longer without posting cause draft has me going crazy. Think giants are still drafting QB cause Eli seems at the end of his rope. Really hope we get Sam or Baker. Sorry Rosen fans but every time I look at tape on him I'm not that impressed.