Losmeister Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 11 hours ago, Greenseed4 said: Gholston wasn’t the only first round pick that has set this team back, I can think of a few more... NYJ First Round Picks (since 2008) 2018: Sam Darnold 2017: Jamal Adams 2016: Darron Lee 2015: Leonard Williams 2014: Calvin Pryor 2013: Dee Millner / Sheldon Richardson 2012: Quenton Coples 2011: Muhammad Wilkerson 2010: Kyle Wilson 2009: Mark Sanchez 2008: Vernon Gholston mouth puke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornJetsFan1983 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Losmeister said: mouth puke Oh man remember Kyle Wilson, he was horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill1c Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 4 hours ago, NYJ37/12 said: I love the 3-4 personally. The 4-3 can work, but the Jets have no DE's that fit. I think like most teams today, the Jets will be a hybrid defense under Williams. Seems to offer significant draft flexibility, no? Just keep accumulating athletes vs. busts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill1c Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Losmeister said: 2012: Quenton Coples I'm a Coples fan, actually. I'm not saying he lived up to potential because he didn't. But A LOT of that goes to the coaching staff, who never had a concrete plan and had the guy playing all over the field in roles he wasn't best suited for. Draft a DT in the first and play him at LB? Ask him to lose weight, gain weight... And, of course, being one of his fans, I thought the claims of laziness or lack of focus were oversold. And the man had some ******* hard @ss hits man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris & Woody's Butler Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 19 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said: This entire topic exists only for people who think it’s fun to throw words around and pretend you know what you’re talking about. The differences between the 3-4 and the 4-3 circa when the Steelers and the Patriots were just about the only ones doing the former do not exist anymore. Every single team uses alignments that combine gap assignments and techniques from both. Everybody plays more nickel and predominantly under fronts in base. Football really is interesting and complicated, just not in ways that are super amenable to armchair bullsh*tting. are you a football coach? your armchair analysis sounded very informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losmeister Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 1 hour ago, phill1c said: I'm a Coples fan, actually. I'm not saying he lived up to potential because he didn't. But A LOT of that goes to the coaching staff, who never had a concrete plan and had the guy playing all over the field in roles he wasn't best suited for. Draft a DT in the first and play him at LB? Ask him to lose weight, gain weight... And, of course, being one of his fans, I thought the claims of laziness or lack of focus were oversold. And the man had some ******* hard @ss hits man. hes not an NFGL player anymore..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 As crotchety as Aaron Sorkin may be, he's 100% dead-on balls accurate with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 17 hours ago, Greenseed4 said: Gholston wasn’t the only first round pick that has set this team back, I can think of a few more... NYJ First Round Picks (since 2008) 2018: Sam Darnold 2017: Jamal Adams 2016: Darron Lee 2015: Leonard Williams 2014: Calvin Pryor 2013: Dee Millner / Sheldon Richardson 2012: Quenton Coples 2011: Muhammad Wilkerson 2010: Kyle Wilson 2009: Mark Sanchez 2008: Vernon Gholston 2012-2014 Brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varjet Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 How could Mac and Idzik try for 7 years and the Jets still not have an edge rusher. The Chargers have at least 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 How could Mac and Idzik try for 7 years and the Jets still not have an edge rusher. The Chargers have at least 2. They didn’t try. That’s the problem. Neither drafted a single edge rusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpain Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 9 hours ago, TNJet said: Yes Abraham at DE was the best I've ever seen play, although im too young to see the sack exchange in action. Abraham was a good player but he never dominated a game or the league the way Klecko did. Klecko only got cheated by the fact the league didn't record sack stats until he was half way thru his career . How he isn't in the HOF is horrible. If he had played on the steelers Cowboys or Niners he would be in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 21 hours ago, nycdan said: Sometimes it felt more like a 2-3-5 Yes teams ran right at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joenamathwouldn'tcry Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 31 minutes ago, Larz said: Yes teams ran right at it 31 minutes ago, Larz said: Yes teams ran right at it Teams ran right through, over, by, "it"; Take your pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 23 hours ago, Jetpain said: Thinking about the 3-4 vs the 4-3 and tho joe Klecko was the best D lineman we had, did we ever have a D lineman put in a more dominating season than Kris Jenkins that one season. ?? Mark Gastineau Dennis Byrd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 58 minutes ago, Jetpain said: Abraham was a good player but he never dominated a game or the league the way Klecko did. Klecko only got cheated by the fact the league didn't record sack stats until he was half way thru his career . How he isn't in the HOF is horrible. If he had played on the steelers Cowboys or Niners he would be in Hes not in because he plagiarized himself in an insurance fraud case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joenamathwouldn'tcry Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 20 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: Hes not in because he plagiarized himself in an insurance fraud case. And Ray Lewis?...………….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 21 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said: And Ray Lewis?...………….. Never went to prison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joenamathwouldn'tcry Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 3 hours ago, flgreen said: Never went to prison Should have... Two people are dead, wonder how well he sleeps at night. At best he was more than a...."bystander". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL047 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 The last pass rusher the Jets had was John Abraham, he played as DE in the 4-3 and a OLB in the 3-4. When they traded him to Atlanta the Jets never bothered replacing him. The Jets have had two GMs (Tannenbaum and Idzik) prior to Maccagnan and did nothing to get a pass rusher. Now that the defense is going back to a 4-3, Maccagnan now has to fix the defense for Williams. To convert from 3-4 to 4-3 the Jets need not one but two DE's that can not only put pressure on the QB but can stop the run as well; the Jets need not one but two DTs to clog the middle against the run; they need a MLB that can run sideline to sideline and can defend the short passes; they need both a strong and a weak side OLB; a strong secondary that can cover every type of wide out and TE they will face. Do the Jets have the players on the current roster to fill in those spots? Williams will need to do a lot of adjustments with these players and needs to get creative when blitzing. Maccagnan needs to be careful and I hope Williams has some type of say on who they are signing for his defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCJet Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 I can't believe there is someone defending Coples. He was a zero effort, massive underachiever, who was a disaster of a pick, considering we could have Melvin Ingram on the team right now. Anyway, as far as the 4-3, the only player who may struggle to fit into a 4-3 is Jordan Jenins, who I happen to like as a player but who simply doesnt have the skill set to play DE. Im not sure if he is strong enough to be a "run stopping" type DE nor is he fast enough to make teams respect his speed off the edge. Darron Lee should have the best opportunity to play a true weak side OLB and use his speed a lot more. We need to find Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 1:12 AM, Greenseed4 said: Gholston wasn’t the only first round pick that has set this team back, I can think of a few more... NYJ First Round Picks (since 2008) 2018: Sam Darnold 2017: Jamal Adams 2016: Darron Lee 2015: Leonard Williams 2014: Calvin Pryor 2013: Dee Millner / Sheldon Richardson 2012: Quenton Coples 2011: Muhammad Wilkerson 2010: Kyle Wilson 2009: Mark Sanchez 2008: Vernon Gholston 7 first round flops in a row from 2008-2014! Wow. At least Leo, Adams & Darnold are NFL players. Wilson & Milliner misses are why your paying huge free agent dollars at your CB positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry McCockinner Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Jetster said: 7 first round flops in a row from 2008-2014! Wow. At least Leo, Adams & Darnold are NFL players. Wilson & Milliner misses are why your paying huge free agent dollars at your CB positions. and people complain about Jamal Adams ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy2020 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 People get hung up on 4-3 and 3-4 waaaay too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 10:48 AM, sec101row23 said: It doesn’t matter what you call it. Teams are in nickel like 60-70% of the time anyway. Regardless of what you run you need to be good on the edges, athletes at pass rusher and corner are necessary. That’s where I would devote my resources to, need guys who can get to the QB and guys who can run with receivers. Under Rex we had a 3-4 defense but we used a lot of 4 man fronts plus like you said we were in nickel and dime a lot. I can see Williams doing the same thing The last time I saw the jets be totally inflexible on defense was the Herman Edwards years when we would be in 4-3 Cover 2 the entire game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 3 hours ago, jeremy2020 said: People get hung up on 4-3 and 3-4 waaaay too much. It can be a huge difference no doubt. Some players can only function in one scheme not the other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 10:52 AM, GreenFish said: More than anything, the Jets just need two new edge rushers that can get after the QB on a consistent basis. Leo, Shep, Anderson and Pennel are plenty good enough for the interior rush and run defense. We don't have anyone bringing the heat on a consistent basis from the edge. We are mostly going to be in nickel anyways. So no need to invest in LBs. Williamson and Lee are fine. If anything we need to bring in a slot corner. Whether it's Gregg or Bowles, we have the same issues on this defense. No edge rush and no slot corner. Skrine was a liability out there and we don't have anyone that can step in at the position at the moment. Roberts, Nickerson and Jones are probably better suited to be backups or outside corners. Draft Allen, sign Honey Badger. And of course a multitude of other imperative moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill1c Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 4:18 PM, Losmeister said: hes not an NFGL player anymore..... Yes, I'm glad you mentioned that. To me, it's the classic "Nature vs. Nurture" argument: In other words, in the NFL most players have superior talent. I mean, this IS the best of the best. I think it's a big difference to say "Coples Sucks" if he were drafted by the Steelers. I mean, if you can't make it in Pittsburgh, where they have a tradition of winning and a virtual factory of defensive playmakers. If the Steelers had drafted Coples, they would have had a plan for him and he'd be coming into a situation. How much of Coples lack of success due to his own limitations, physical and/or mental? vs. being in a chaotic situation, playing out of position, etc.? Who knows... And then I also believe that second chances really diminish the odds of success, even with superior talent. And that is mostly mental. I'm sure I'm missing a lot of evidence here; I'm happy to discuss further... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 A big factor is what do we do with McClendon? Do we resign him and if so does he have much left in the tank? if you don’t have an effective Nose you can’t run the 3-4 see 2007 Jets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joenamathwouldn'tcry Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, Philc1 said: A big factor is what do we do with McClendon? Do we resign him and if so does he have much left in the tank? if you don’t have an effective Nose you can’t run the 3-4 see 2007 Jets Maybe they should kick the tires on Lawrence Taylor then. Had the most effective nose in recent memory. Cut bait with McClendon, he's shot. Should be Williams call, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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