Ja'Wuan James: Dolphins Never Had an Offensive Identity

[dbatesman]

10 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Are the Dolphins exceptionally good at decision making?

You’re so close! Just a little further!

[kdels62]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

An upgrade from Todd Bowles is not hard. Good at winning close games? That’s what you’re hanging your hat on? And if he didn’t have any talent on his team, whose fault is that? His. He was choosing the talent. Good thing he won’t have that responsibility here. Now he has.. *checks notes* the leagues worst drafter and bottom five general manager. Cool. Cool. 

I could hang my hat on the years of NFL experience and his reputation as an offensive genius that guided the best offense ever. I won’t do that tho because it seems trite.

It’s been stated that the Dolphins had a collaborative system for picking players which I guess we can still blame on Gase if you really want to do that. Regardless, that’s a detour that leads us away from Gase’s abilities as a head coach. It’s also super irrelevant because he decided that player control was beyond the scope of what he wanted.

[kdels62]

2 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

You’re so close! Just a little further!

Meh, I like Gase so the Jets did something I think is smart. If they’d chosen McCarthy then they’d be idiots... just like the Dolphins.

[HawkeyeJet]

My personal opinion is that they didn't have an identity because they basically played 2 different offenses depending on which QB was in.

When I watched them play with Tanehill it was a lot of zone read, play action, moving the pocket etc.

With Cutler and Osweiler it was more standard pocket passing etc.

That never made sense two me why your backup QB would have such a completely different skill set as your starting QB.  

Hard to have an identity when you are moving in and out of different concepts constantly.

Thats not a defense of Gase.  He should have seen that.  

[Charlie Brown]

5 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Can’t a lot of those concerns about Bowles be translated to the Gase led Dolphins? I’m asking because it seems he left the Dolphins in a very toxic state. 

Perhaps  

I didn’t want Gase so I am just trying to find something positive for Gase. 

So I am not big on defending him. 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, kdels62 said:

It’s really no fun to not try and analyze what happened especially since we’re still 2 months from free agency. I appreciate that Gase said he sacrificed stats for chances to win games this season. The stats and the results bear that out. The Dolphins were worse than us in every way but they managed to win more. If Gase can figure out how to get wins and mediocrity out of crap then I’m hopeful he can get more out of a legitimate QB prospect and $100 million in cap space. 

It never translates so easily but 7-9 with that Dolphins team means we should expect  playoff contention with our team which should be more talented than any Gase has previously had. 

I'm not going to rationalize for his failures with the Dolphins. I choose to take them as one of the few enjoyments over the last couple seasons.

Winning a game here or there despite bad stats is the sign of unexpected upsets rather than likely repeatable occurrences. We had that in 2013, too. 

Personally I think it's easy to just start awarding automatic would-be wins to someone who didn't earn them, and who's proven little as a HC. As though it's some mere formality that by showing up one could transfer all our wins to him and then start tacking on even more wins as extras. It doesn't work that way. 

Gase's Dolphins were 7-9 last year but 4 of those wins came in 5 games against 2 rookie QBs in the division plus an Oakland team tanking the season in advance. Against everyone else they were 3-8 which is very Todd Bowles level. One of his losses came to a Colts team that lost to Bowles -- so much for the idea that it's a given he'd win against every team beaten by the 4-win Bowles Jets. 

If he's given a better roster he'll do better. If not then he won't. He's no miracle worker despite many people wanting to believe he is. What he is is the one candidate who agreed to the Jets' HC job that came with strings attached that the failure of a GM gets to pick his DC for him. 

[jgb]

We're basically betting against the evidence that Adam Gase is a good coach. I choose to be optimistic for now. Because I'm burned out of always (correctly) predicting failure.

[Warfish]

19 hours ago, bitonti said:

they were the 30th ranked offense in the NFL

pretty sure even the Jets Jeremy Bates messin with sasquatch offense was ranked higher  

are we supposed to pretend the Dolphins were great? Cause Gase is the coach? 

Gase did nothing wrong, it was all Tannehill, yet Gase is great because he got something something from Tannehill, and ranking don’t matter anyway.....isn’t that the current talking point?

[Butterfield]

12 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Ja'Wuan sounds like a disgruntled employee who didn't like Adam Gase. 

It seems most people who work with Gase are disgruntled with him.  He rubs people the wrong way.

[Philc1]

19 hours ago, bitonti said:

they were the 30th ranked offense in the NFL

pretty sure even the Jets Jeremy Bates messin with sasquatch offense was ranked higher  

are we supposed to pretend the Dolphins were great? Cause Gase is the coach? 

Wow who’d a thunk Brock Osweiler throwing to scrubs wouldn’t result in the 1998 Vikings 

[jayrad01]

18 hours ago, HelenOfTroy said:

I hope you mean Louisiana, ‘cause Florida weather is oppressive compared to SoCal.  Our weather is moderate year round. 

Been to Florida and Miami numerous times and the heat and humidity is horrible, just as much an adjustment for us as freezing weather and snow.  Florida teams have indoor facilities, while unnecessary year round in SoCal.

The Dolphins practice outside almost always. They just recently got an indoor practice facility.

[rammagen]

17 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

So you are advocating for retaining Bowles over hiring Gase?

NO I think the OP and I agree gase had more talent and did less with it. While Bowles the amazing piece of work he was had less talent and got more out of it. This team with another coach has 7 wins do you think Gase could get 7 wins out of this team last yr. These were games they were in or ahead and and coaching was the deciding factor

[Scott Dierking]

19 minutes ago, rammagen said:

NO I think the OP and I agree gase had more talent and did less with it. While Bowles the amazing piece of work he was had less talent and got more out of it. This team with another coach has 7 wins do you think Gase could get 7 wins out of this team last yr. These were games they were in or ahead and and coaching was the deciding factor

Ok then, who would you advocate the Jets SHOULD HAVE hired?

I can pick similar holes in all the candidates. It is a very easy game to do.

[Creepy Lurker]

9 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Ok then, who would you advocate the Jets SHOULD HAVE hired?

I can pick similar holes in all the candidates. It is a very easy game to do.

Exactly. There is no perfect hire. Some coaches require total control over roster and others just want to coach and rely on the team being stocked with quality talent that fits the system etc. It takes positive contributions from MULTIPLE areas to make a team good. Coach is only 1 part.

The 3 most important are GM, coach and QB. You can have good at one position and bad at another which completely undermines the operation. That makes it even more difficult to put things in a vacuum and determine who actually did well at their jobs.

Mac and Bowles were both terrible and it was easy to see. It’s tough when you have a great QB that may be masking a bad head coach’s deficiencies (Rodgers/McCarthy?) or a bad GM that undermines the whole team with poor roster management. 

Normally I would just “leave it to the professionals” to figure this stuff out but this team has proven to be incompetent and not as smart/forward thinking as even the fanbase. That’s unacceptable and why I refuse to praise ANYTHING until good things come from it. None of us know what goes on behind the scenes. You are what your record is. End of story. 

[sourceworx]

13 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Was rookie Darnold > any QB Gase had in Miami? No, and I think this is more what EY was alluding to. 

It was past time for his predecessor to go, and I get the desire to feel they made the right decision here, but you have to admit the level of excuse-making for Gase has reached crazy levels already, and he hasn't even held a single practice yet. 

I'm happy he's an offense-minded HC. It's a nice change. Even still I'm also lol at all those suddenly excited over the hire because anything the Jets decide to do is by definition considered the smart thing. We were supposedly going to make this great big splash of a HC hire, and we ended up with the dooshy guy the Dolphins fired faster than we fired Bowles, because this was the one who agreed to hire the DC the GM had pre-selected. 

If we win a SB, no one will care if the HC's name is Gase or McCarthy or Harbaugh or Bowles. They could help him out by giving him better teams than the Jets' HCs have had for most of the past several years.

This is part of the deal when you hire a retread head coach.  Even Mike McCarthy, who many here wanted, came with plenty of question marks. A retread coach without them isn't going to be out there looking for a new job. 

[Jet Nut]

12 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

It’s nkt just two players. Numerous Dolphins said they wanted out if Gase stayed. Landry “did nothing” with Baker. Wut? Third receiver? You mean the guy who had the most catches and yards was the third receiver? Really? He had 30 more catches than any Jets player. Stop with this Landry isn’t good stuff. That’s just false. 

Macc has two more years on his deal. That’s all he’ll get. And the new GM won’t keep Gase. We’ve all seen this before. 

All those bad things happened and the Dolphins were still like, “Thank you, next.”

How many players spoke up?  Add another who was tossed away, Suh, forgot him.  Stills?  He claims he never said it.

Yes, Landry was the 3rd WR at the end of the season.   Last year with the Fins, 112 catches, 980 yards?  8.8 per?  Hes a 10 yard per catch career WR who wanted 17 mil, you paying that for that kind of production?  As I said a dink and dunk slot receiver.  

Macc is gone in 2 years?  You have that on authority?  And then Gase is gone too?  Rosy pictures your painting for the team, should I cancel my STs?  LOL

[Jet9]

So, is Seattle's 12th Man really just a bag of dope? 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

It seems like Gase tried to do too much in Miami and failed, we have to hope he learned some lessons and gets back to things that made him successful, focus offense, Williams has the D

[CanadaSteve]

On 1/28/2019 at 1:21 PM, KRL said:

I wasn't in favor of hiring Gase, but to trash him for MIA offense when his QB's were
Tannehill, Moore, Cutler and Osweiler is ridiculous.  A true measure of his ability to
create an offense will be seen when he has Darnold behind center

Not sure why you got a confused face on this comment; its pretty spot on.

I mean, Bill Bellicheat had a terrible record in Cleveland as a head coach, went 5-11 his first season in NE, and started 0-3 when the hit heard round the world happened.  He does not go down as the GOAT of all-time as a coach without the GOAT of all-time QB drafted in the 6th round. 

I am not saying Gase is Bellichick, but for people to be trashing him like they are without seeing what he can do with a good QB is just ridiculous.

[Scott Dierking]

11 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

Exactly. There is no perfect hire. Some coaches require total control over roster and others just want to coach and rely on the team being stocked with quality talent that fits the system etc. It takes positive contributions from MULTIPLE areas to make a team good. Coach is only 1 part.

The 3 most important are GM, coach and QB. You can have good at one position and bad at another which completely undermines the operation. That makes it even more difficult to put things in a vacuum and determine who actually did well at their jobs.

Mac and Bowles were both terrible and it was easy to see. It’s tough when you have a great QB that may be masking a bad head coach’s deficiencies (Rodgers/McCarthy?) or a bad GM that undermines the whole team with poor roster management. 

Normally I would just “leave it to the professionals” to figure this stuff out but this team has proven to be incompetent and not as smart/forward thinking as even the fanbase. That’s unacceptable and why I refuse to praise ANYTHING until good things come from it. None of us know what goes on behind the scenes. You are what your record is. End of story. 

Very good post. 

Today, we suit here with Gase. Its is what we have. I can make strong arguments for him to be successful, I can make strong arguments against him being successful. Just like all of the candidates that were being considered, or could have been considered that were logically available. Gase was not my first choice.

But here we are. 

[rayzor]

16 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

How is 33 ranking at position above average? There are 32 teams so that means he would be bottom of the barrel starter or good depth?

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

I think this includes all Tackles.  R & L.  At least according to ProFootball Focus.

[Sperm Edwards]

On 1/29/2019 at 9:15 AM, sourceworx said:

This is part of the deal when you hire a retread head coach.  Even Mike McCarthy, who many here wanted, came with plenty of question marks. A retread coach without them isn't going to be out there looking for a new job. 

Agree to a point. Sometimes with a HC who's been in the same place for so long the team's just heard everything he's had to say and a change of scenery is in order on both sides. Especially when the main personality issue is between HC and an outspoken HOF QB whose clout trumps that of the HC.

Look at Coughlin with Jacksonville. He had them at 14-2 in his 4th straight playoff season and who knows what might have happened that year if his offense didn't have a 5-turnover meltdown on top of surrendering a KO return TD (and honestly, how many of those things are directly due to a faulty HC?). When they fired him after a trio of 6-7 win seasons it was clearly time for both sides to move on. While Jacksonville didn't reach their goal, post-Coughlin (and Brunell) they soon got much better under Del Rio, and Coughlin of course won a pair of SBs with the Giants. Those are the times I think coaching changes are most significant. Sometimes it's an immediate shot in the arm, and sometimes it's an immediate housecleaning that starts to reap benefits a year later. For the most part, though, HCs tend to just go as the roster goes. Was Coughlin only half as good a HC in 2000 as he was in '99 because they went from 14 wins to 7? Of course not. 

An obvious difference with Gase, as opposed to a McCarthy (or a Coughlin) is he's never had any serious success as a HC, and his only obvious success season as OC came when he was handed the NFL's reigning #1 offense with another year of experience together, with a QB who routinely audibled after lining up, so fully crediting him for such success is ignorant. His first year as HC in Miami he had an easier schedule than even the 2015 Jets had, and convenient scheduling can allow a winning record despite being in the bottom half on offense and defense and surrendering more points than they scored on the season. Fortunate scheduling is not sustainable, though. We saw it with Bowles after 2015, and one of the best examples was Rex right before him from 2013 to 2014. Gase could have been Miami's year-1 shot in the arm as much as Bowles was with the Jets, before regressing to his natural mean. 

I think the likelihood is neither is the smartest nor dumbest football coach there's ever been. If Gase is given a solid team, and hopefully he is, then we should see an immediate bounce (we'll see some bounce anyway on offense, largely due to Darnold's rookie year being behind him). Gase has already shown in Miami he's no miracle worker. Give him a meh team and they'll generally have meh results: a losing team who sneaks in an upset here and there.

[bitonti]

20 hours ago, KRL said:

I wasn't in favor of hiring Gase, but to trash him for MIA offense when his QB's were
Tannehill, Moore, Cutler and Osweiler is ridiculous.  A true measure of his ability to
create an offense will be seen when he has Darnold behind center

1

I guess evaluating Bowles with Fitz, McCown and the most Int in the league Darnold wouldn't be fair either 

[bitonti]

2 hours ago, Butterfield said:

It seems most people who work with Gase are disgruntled with him.  He rubs people the wrong way.

that's everyone else's fault, not Adam Gase's

he's just an innocent sociopath, saying and doing anything to get one last NFL HC chance before becoming a footnote 

there are reasons and excuses why Gase is a great hire and gonna be awesome 

I just cant think of them right now 

Oh wait. there was that one time Bill Bellichek got fired once, invented a system of institutionalized cheating and then became a success. 

There's literally no connection between Adam Gase and BB but they are both human beings, so anything can happen, amirite! 

[bitonti]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Gase did nothing wrong, it was all Tannehill, yet Gase is great because he got something something from Tannehill, and ranking don’t matter anyway.....isn’t that the current talking point?

Ranks only matter when they are firing Todd Bowles. 

When they are hiring people, all sorts of easy excuses can be found. 

IT's a really great sign the new Head Coach has been here like a month and there's already a cottage industry of excuse makers

"hE's NoT CrazEEY EyES!  JuST hOw hE Look WIthoT His HAT!" 

[Scott Dierking]

21 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Agree to a point. Sometimes with a HC who's been in the same place for so long the team's just heard everything he's had to say and a change of scenery is in order on both sides. Especially when the main personality issue is with an outspoken HOF QB whose clout trumps that of the HC.

Look at Coughlin with Jacksonville. He had them at 14-2 in his 4th straight playoff season and who knows what might have happened that year if his offense didn't have a 5-turnover meltdown on top of surrendering a KO return TD (and honestly, how many of those things are directly due to a faulty HC?). When they fired him after a trio of 6-7 win seasons it was clearly time for both sides to move on. While Jacksonville didn't reach their goal, post-Coughlin (and Brunell) they soon got much better under Del Rio, and Coughlin of course won a pair of SBs with the Giants. Those are the times I think coaching changes are most significant. Sometimes it's an immediate shot in the arm, and sometimes it's an immediate housecleaning that starts to reap benefits a year later. For the most part, though, HCs tend to just go as the roster goes. Was Coughlin only half as good a HC in 2000 as he was in '99 because they went from 14 wins to 7? Of course not. 

An obvious difference with Gase, as opposed to a McCarthy (or a Coughlin) is he's never had any serious success as a HC, and his only obvious success season as OC came when he was handed the NFL's reigning #1 offense with another year of experience together. His first year in Miami he had an easier schedule than even the 2015 Jets had, and convenient scheduling can allow a winning record despite being in the bottom half on offense and defense and surrendering more points than they scored on the season. Fortunate scheduling is not sustainable, though. We saw it with Bowles as well, and one of the best examples was Rex before him from 2013 to 2014. Gase could have been Miami's year-1 shot in the arm as much as Bowles was with the Jets, before regressing to his natural mean. 

I think the likelihood is neither is the smartest nor dumbest football coach there's ever been. If Gase is given a solid team, and hopefully he is, then we should see an immediate bounce (we'll see some bounce anyway on offense, largely due to Darnold's rookie year being behind him). Gase has already shown in Miami he's no miracle worker. Give him a meh team and they'll generally have meh results: a losing team who sneaks in an upset here and there.

He actually made Tim Tebow like like he could play the position a very little bit. The same with Cutler. He bettered Kitna. Made Shaun Hill serviceable. Same with Matt Moore. And for a stretch made Tannehill look good. 

We can play these games as long as the day is long. There are plusses and minuses. He will be judges now on what he can do with Sam Darnold the next 3 years. The rest is message board posturing and conjecture.

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

Ranks only matter when they are firing Todd Bowles. 

When they are hiring people, all sorts of easy excuses can be found. 

IT's a really great sign the new Head Coach has been here like a month and there's already a cottage industry of excuse makers

"hE's NoT CrazEEY EyES!  JuST hOw hE Look WIthoT His HAT!" 

I personally like opinions that he is drug addled of some sort. Honestly Bit, you have come off your hinges. 

[Jet Nut]

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I guess evaluating Bowles with Fitz, McCown and the most Int in the league Darnold wouldn't be fair either 

If you dont look further than numbers and dont take into account what you see on the field.

[Sperm Edwards]

50 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

He actually made Tim Tebow like like he could play the position a very little bit. The same with Cutler. He bettered Kitna. Made Shaun Hill serviceable. Same with Matt Moore. And for a stretch made Tannehill look good. 

We can play these games as long as the day is long. There are plusses and minuses. He will be judges now on what he can do with Sam Darnold the next 3 years. The rest is message board posturing and conjecture.

Lol divine intervention made Tebow look like he could play a little bit. Or anyway it seemed like that. You ever see so many impossibly lucky breaks game after game?

Kitna was about the same before and after Gase. Ditto Matt Moore who had similar success in limited action even back when he was 25. Regardless, he's coming here to be the HC not the QBC. Bowles had success as a DC and DBC; that didn't make him a good HC either.

I've said I don't know how many times if he's given a good team there should be good results (or anyway, noticeably better results). If he's given a bad team there's little reason to believe he'd still have good results beyond maybe an initial shot in the arm that accompanies many scenery changes. 

[Scott Dierking]

35 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Lol divine intervention made Tebow look like he could play a little bit. Or anyway it seemed like that. You ever see so many impossibly lucky breaks game after game?

Kitna was about the same before and after Gase. Ditto Matt Moore who had similar success in limited action even back when he was 25. Regardless, he's coming here to be the HC not the QBC. Bowles had success as a DC and DBC; that didn't make him a good HC either.

Regardless, I've said I don't know how many times if he's given a good team there should be good results (or anyway, noticeably better results). If he's given a bad team there's little reason to believe he'd still have good results beyond maybe an initial shot in the arm that accompanies many scenery changes. 

We basically agree here, it is more of a talent based circumstance. better or worse, under a particular coach can often be argued in many directions, without clear conclusion.

If it was divine intervention that helped in Denver, I will take that on my side. We are due, no?

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

We basically agree here, it is more of a talent based circumstance. better or worse, under a particular coach can often be argued in many directions, without clear conclusion.

If it was divine intervention that helped in Denver, I will take that on my side. We are due, no?

Certainly seems like it. But I've been saying that for a quarter century plus, so what do I know.

[Jetster]

 

Let me ask you this question, when was the last time the NY Jets had an experienced experienced Head Coach & an experienced DC that had also had head coaching experience? The answer is never. 

So let's sit back & see how it plays out. MOST Jet fans wanted 2 things to happen in this job search. 1st, they wanted a Head Coach who actually had NFL HEAD COACHING experience. Gase checks that box. 2nd, most wanted to FINALLY bring in a guy that was an offensive head coach & work with Darnold. Gase checks that box. 3rd, most wanted an experienced DC with the balls to whip this team into shape & Gase instantly hired THE BEST AVAILABLE GUY who has years of experience & had just come off an interim Head Coaching gig. Williams checks that box. 

But we stil have that small minority of fans that will complain about everything, disagree with everyone, forecast gloom & doom before free agency & the draft arrive & will already be painting the Jets at 3-13 & telling us in 3 years Gase will already be fired, Darnold a bust, the Patriots win 3 more Super Bowls, and they pray this all comes to fruition so they can come on this board & say "I told you so". They live in a negative world you wouldn't wish on any family member & I hope they're all on the anti depressants they should be on. Well, they're family & friends should also be on them to be able to deal with these fans dark thoughts.

[CrazyCarl40]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

How many players spoke up?  Add another who was tossed away, Suh, forgot him.  Stills?  He claims he never said it.

Yes, Landry was the 3rd WR at the end of the season.   Last year with the Fins, 112 catches, 980 yards?  8.8 per?  Hes a 10 yard per catch career WR who wanted 17 mil, you paying that for that kind of production?  As I said a dink and dunk slot receiver.  

Macc is gone in 2 years?  You have that on authority?  And then Gase is gone too?  Rosy pictures your painting for the team, should I cancel my STs?  LOL

The articles of which players wanted out are easily searchable. 

I still don’t understand how the leading receiver was the 3rd receiver. Who was ahead of him? Landry is a move the chains receiver who is capable of breaking one. 17 million? Where’d you get that figure?

Macc has two years left on his contract as far as I can tell. After two more losing seasons, he’ll be canned. The new GM won’t keep Gase. The rebuild version 7 can begin in 2021. Rebuilding 8 begins when Darnold bolts in free agency. I left my Kelly green glasses at home. Sorry.

[jgb]

Gotta disagree with Jawuan James here. Dolphin offense passed the eye test last year. Anyone who can't see that needs to get checked for cataracts. They just couldn't close the lid on some close ones.

In a few games they took their lashes but they never shed any tears. They focused and weren't blindsided by a hurt QB. The haters kicked sand in their face but the players squinted and marched on, never distracted when everyone was signing funeral dirges and laying irises on their grave.

Gase was the teacher and the players, his pupils. He worked overtime until he was bleary and bloodshot. Most of you will wink to each other at this but don't be short-sighted. The stats are only part of the visual. Blink and you'll miss the big picture. Gase can see the future and it's so bright we gotta wear shades.

 

 

[Adoni Beast]

32 minutes ago, Jetster said:

 

Let me ask you this question, when was the last time the NY Jets had an experienced experienced Head Coach & an experienced DC that had also had head coaching experience? The answer is never. 

Bill Parcells & Bill Belichick as his DC was the last time we had that.

But, I do agree with you that the Gase & Williams hirings are something to be excited about.