Cut One: Elijah McGuire, Trent Cannon or Bilal Powell?

[Barry McCockinner]

Elijah is straight ?️

Cannon is trash too but he at least contributes on special teams

[thshadow]

1 hour ago, flgreen said:

The idea that he sucks because he fumbles to much is kind of silly when he's never fumbled in a real game 

I think it's clear that the Jets are terrified of having him return punts due to fumbling - so it's not silly to think he has fumbling issues.  Maybe only for punt returns.  But it would have been nice if he could return punts.

 

[kdels62]

I think it will be Powell after a disappointing preseason. If Powell is healthy and effective then it could end up being McGuire because he has the redundant skill set. Cannon seems to be Boyer's guy and that will matter when it comes to final cuts. 

[jeTMAC]

Bell

Montgomery

McGuire

Powell( ko return)

[jamesr]

12 hours ago, flgreen said:

So he fumbled 0 times in a real game.  Never fumbled from scrimmage.  Pre-season doesn't mean squat.  The guy had never returned a punt before. Because he's fast some idiot on the Jets decided he was a punt returner.    lol

Probably the best gunner on teams the Jets have had in awhile.  

Really didn't like the guy when the Jets drafted him, but along with the muffed punts, looked explosive in space at times in pre-season, which as I said doesn't mean much.  Think he could find a small roll in Gase's system.  The idea that he sucks because he fumbles to much is kind of silly when he's never fumbled in a real game 

Fans react a lot to first impressions. They stick in the memory and are brought up ad nauseum.  Cannon has a fumbling problem ... based on first impressions. Joe McKnight threw up in one of his first practices and it was still being mentioned years later that he was unfit, not prepared to work etc.

No logic for it, these things just stick in the memory. (So glad it didn't happen on Darnold when his first career pass was a pick-6).

I guess my concern on Cannon then is, if he's mainly a ST player but can't return kicks / punts ... can we afford a roster spot for a guy who is only a gunner on punt returns? Isn't there a guy out there who can be a gunner AND offer something more, either at RB, WR, KR, PR etc. Peake is also a good gunner, but doesn't offer much beyond that. As one trick ponies go, it's not the most compelling trick to have.

[Jetster]

We're talking 3rd RB after Bell & Ty, which means 1 of those guys after them HAS TO PLAY SPECIAL TEAMS. 

Either Powell or McGuire gets cut. 

[slats]

10 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Fans react a lot to first impressions. They stick in the memory and are brought up ad nauseum.  Cannon has a fumbling problem ... based on first impressions. Joe McKnight threw up in one of his first practices and it was still being mentioned years later that he was unfit, not prepared to work etc.

No logic for it, these things just stick in the memory. (So glad it didn't happen on Darnold when his first career pass was a pick-6).

100%. It's not even fumbling. He muffed punts. He never should've been back there, but the Jets had no one. 

10 minutes ago, jamesr said:

I guess my concern on Cannon then is, if he's mainly a ST player but can't return kicks / punts ... can we afford a roster spot for a guy who is only a gunner on punt returns? Isn't there a guy out there who can be a gunner AND offer something more, either at RB, WR, KR, PR etc. Peake is also a good gunner, but doesn't offer much beyond that. As one trick ponies go, it's not the most compelling trick to have.

Returning kicks and returning punts are two entirely different things. I'm thinking he can return kicks. 

But even if his main job is being a gunner on the punt team, that puts him ahead of McGuire. By quite a bit, IMHO. Their offensive numbers are very similar, but Cannon adds value on specials and McGuire doesn't. We're probably talking about the #4 RB here. That guy had better have special teams value. 

[flgreen]

2 hours ago, jamesr said:

Fans react a lot to first impressions. They stick in the memory and are brought up ad nauseum.  Cannon has a fumbling problem ... based on first impressions. Joe McKnight threw up in one of his first practices and it was still being mentioned years later that he was unfit, not prepared to work etc.

No logic for it, these things just stick in the memory. (So glad it didn't happen on Darnold when his first career pass was a pick-6).

I guess my concern on Cannon then is, if he's mainly a ST player but can't return kicks / punts ... can we afford a roster spot for a guy who is only a gunner on punt returns? Isn't there a guy out there who can be a gunner AND offer something more, either at RB, WR, KR, PR etc. Peake is also a good gunner, but doesn't offer much beyond that. As one trick ponies go, it's not the most compelling trick to have.

Not heralding Cannon as any kind of great player.  As I mentioned above I didn't like the pick in the draft at all.   It's just every time his name comes up some one says, "he sucks, fumbles all the time" Just not true.  He muffed some punts in pre-season, and as you said first impressions stick. 

Cannon  showed some explosiveness in camp.  We didn't see much of it during the season, but IMO the Jets O scheme was pitiful last year.  Nobody did much in the running game.  Crowell had decent stats off two games.  The rest of the year he was awful. 

They were running Cannon between the tackles.  For a guy with his frame that's stupid.  The zone blocking scheme, and Cannon's size/speed indicated he should have been stretching the edges , which is what you want in a zone blocking scheme, and catching the ball in  space where he can run.   IMO, the O Gase showed in Miami will be much more suited for Cannon's skill set.

I never really understood why people kept saying Peake was this great gunner.  Guy had 2 solo tackles in 2 years.  Solo tackles is what you pay gunners for.  Cannon had 7 solo's in one season.  A few of them were high light reel worthy as far as gunner tackles go.

Not saying Cannon is going to be anything this season, but I'm sure curious to see him in Gase's system.  It really seems to fit his skill set.  We'll see  

[#27TheDominator]

FWIW, I think Cannon can return kicks.   It is punts where he looked like sh*t.

[More Cowbell]

The addition of TM has made Powell nothing more than an emergency back. He does everything Powell can do and is younger and better. In a pinch he can be the lead back. I see no reason the retain Powell with TM on the team. 

As far as the other two, I really wanted to like McGuire but he has shown to bt JAG. If Cannon got rid of the fumble problem, he would be great on ST. Problem is he hasn't  done it to date.

Someone wrote we are removing the stench of Mac. I can think of nothing that would do that better than getting rid of his players that never contributed.  

All three can be cut and we probably don't  miss a beat

[The Voice of Reason]

It all depends on how Powell, McGuire and Cannon look in Preseason....

Based on last year McGuire looked slow. Was this because of the injury? We need to find out. I think that his injury has hampered him and he may never be the same again.

Cannon has speed and did have a couple catches but those fumbles on punt returns hurt him... Although he had some great tackles as a gunner and ran some good routes if he can cut down on the drops. I am curious to see how much better he gets with a full offseason. He was coming from Div 2, so there is a lot to digest when making to leap to NFL... I think he is still worth at the very least a spot on the PS, barring his improvement.  In college he wasn't known to fumble so I am not sure this will be a problem or if it was just adjusting to punt returns.

Powell.... I love this guy. But how much did the injury take from him. There was talk that this injury was possibly career-ending and life damaging. I am led to believe that he signed with the team as a last ditch effort to see how he recovered.... I could see him being the most likely cut before the season because of the severity of his injury.

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

The addition of TM has made Powell nothing more than an emergency back. He does everything Powell can do and is younger and better. In a pinch he can be the lead back. I see no reason the retain Powell with TM on the team. 

As far as the other two, I really wanted to like McGuire but he has shown to bt JAG. If Cannon got rid of the fumble problem, he would be great on ST. Problem is he hasn't  done it to date.

Someone wrote we are removing the stench of Mac. I can think of nothing that would do that better than getting rid of his players that never contributed.  

All three can be cut and we probably don't  miss a beat

Powell is a Tannenbaum player, not a Maccagnan player or an Idzik player.  I can see why people think that Montgomery is going to fill that role, but Montgomery was dumped in Green Bay and didn't get an offer from Baltimore.  He got a 1 year deal with a $90K guarantee.  The league doesn't view him as the sure thing this board does.  Getting yards with Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay is very different than with the Sanchez/Geno/Fitzpatrick/Petty/McCown/Darnold Jets.  Besides, if he made Powell redundant, then why would they bother bringing Powell back?  Powell was signed two months after Montgomery.  Montgomery was a Maccagnan signing, Powell was signed after the firing, in fact he may have been the first move Douglas made.

As I, and others, have pointed out in this thread, Cannon hasn't had a "fumbling problem."  He fumbled/muffed a few times in a preseason game trying to field punts for the first time in a game situation.  He never actually fumbled during the season and he wasn't used on returns because the Jets had a pro bowl return man.

I am probably as low on McGuire as anybody here, but he deserves a shot in camp.  Same with Deangelo Henderson who is a very good runner, but actually does have fumbling issues. 

[Freemanm]

McGuire, by far. Cannon should return kick offs

[#27TheDominator]

Don't sleep on Jalin Moore, the UDFA out of Appalachian State.  He went undrafted after a fractured and dislocated ankle during a TD run cut his senior year short, but he was coming off two straight 1,000 yard 10+TD seasons, albeit in the Sun Belt.  Seems like he fits what Gase likes to do.  

[Obrien2Toon]

McGuire is just a bad player

dont think Powell has anything left

Cannon at least has some potential 

[jamesr]

6 hours ago, slats said:

100%. It's not even fumbling. He muffed punts. He never should've been back there, but the Jets had no one. 

Returning kicks and returning punts are two entirely different things. I'm thinking he can return kicks. 

But even if his main job is being a gunner on the punt team, that puts him ahead of McGuire. By quite a bit, IMHO. Their offensive numbers are very similar, but Cannon adds value on specials and McGuire doesn't. We're probably talking about the #4 RB here. That guy had better have special teams value. 

That was why I voted to cut McGuire over Cannon.

[jamesr]

5 hours ago, flgreen said:

Not heralding Cannon as any kind of great player.  As I mentioned above I didn't like the pick in the draft at all.   It's just every time his name comes up some one says, "he sucks, fumbles all the time" Just not true.  He muffed some punts in pre-season, and as you said first impressions stick. 

Cannon  showed some explosiveness in camp.  We didn't see much of it during the season, but IMO the Jets O scheme was pitiful last year.  Nobody did much in the running game.  Crowell had decent stats off two games.  The rest of the year he was awful. 

They were running Cannon between the tackles.  For a guy with his frame that's stupid.  The zone blocking scheme, and Cannon's size/speed indicated he should have been stretching the edges , which is what you want in a zone blocking scheme, and catching the ball in  space where he can run.   IMO, the O Gase showed in Miami will be much more suited for Cannon's skill set.

I never really understood why people kept saying Peake was this great gunner.  Guy had 2 solo tackles in 2 years.  Solo tackles is what you pay gunners for.  Cannon had 7 solo's in one season.  A few of them were high light reel worthy as far as gunner tackles go.

Not saying Cannon is going to be anything this season, but I'm sure curious to see him in Gase's system.  It really seems to fit his skill set.  We'll see  

The coaching last year did likely set back the stats for both the RBs; once Crowell went down they just tried to use McGuire / Cannon in the same way as Crowell it seemed, despite them being different types of back.

The resigning of Powell does lead me to believe that it's not a simple either / or between McGuire and Cannon; if he's healthy he gives the option to cut both.

[Jet Nut]

We'll sign one of the Eagles cuts.  They've got a lot of nice backs, someone will go and replace Powell

[sourceworx]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

We'll sign one of the Eagles cuts.  They've got a lot of nice backs, someone will go and replace Powell

Agreed. I think there is a very good chance that none of them make the final roster. 

[Jet Nut]

16 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Agreed. I think there is a very good chance that none of them make the final roster. 

Corey Clement would be an interesting guy to pick from Philly

[bealeb319]

Can I cut all three?

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[sourceworx]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Corey Clement would be an interesting guy to pick from Philly

Admittedly I don't know much about the Eagles. However even though at this point there isn't much Douglas can do to change the top of the roster, he can do a lot to the bottom of it. That's where he can truly make his mark on this year's team.

We're essentially talking about the third and fourth RBs on the depth chart. When it's all said and done, there's a good chance those spots will be filled with guys who currently aren't on the team. The same could be said for pretty much every other position group.

 

[PepPep]

I voted Cannon. I get that he is a good special teams player but he has shown the least of the bunch as a RB. 

However, McGuire and Powell are both coming off injuries. That will make a big impact on who I keep. If they look great and are fully cleared to play and are outplaying Cannon you gotta keep them and cut Cannon loose. 

I don't get the negativity coming at McGuire. The guy looked solid playing behind a terrible run blocking O-line. He has proven that he can be effective way more so than Cannon. 

Powell you pretty much know what you are getting from. The question with him is, again, the injury...but also his age. Not that he is too old to be effective, but that the Jets may want to give a younger guy the opportunity.  

[Jet Nut]

34 minutes ago, PepPep said:

I voted Cannon. I get that he is a good special teams player but he has shown the least of the bunch as a RB. 

However, McGuire and Powell are both coming off injuries. That will make a big impact on who I keep. If they look great and are fully cleared to play and are outplaying Cannon you gotta keep them and cut Cannon loose. 

I don't get the negativity coming at McGuire. The guy looked solid playing behind a terrible run blocking O-line. He has proven that he can be effective way more so than Cannon. 

Powell you pretty much know what you are getting from. The question with him is, again, the injury...but also his age. Not that he is too old to be effective, but that the Jets may want to give a younger guy the opportunity.  

Powell has shown over his career that he cant be counted on.  Hes coming off an injury which no one was sure, still dont, know if he will be himself.  Hes older than the rest for bonus point.

I would be shocked if hes on the roster and one of the others is gone

[fltflo]

Powell has shown over his career that he cant be counted on.  Hes coming off an injury which no one was sure, still dont, know if he will be himself.  Hes older than the rest for bonus point.
I would be shocked if hes on the roster and one of the others is gone

You know it’s amazing how everyone is judging the talent of this group, especially the young guys. We have certainly seen what Powell can do over the years. Is he a great talent, of course not;but he is a plugger. Four yards 3 yards 5 yards on an almost consist basis. He has done a ton of garbage work over the years for this team.
An here’s the thing I don’t understand about all this prejudgment, most of all these guys runs have been from behind this load of crap we call an offensive line.
How can we truly know how good any of these young guys are until we can pull a line together that can actually impose its will on a defense and open up a running game.
Let’s face it, the lines of the last 4 or 5 years were just above average when pass blocking and certainly well below average in run blocking.


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[y2k8]

If injuries don't decide, probably Cannon.  But I'd bet one of them doesn't make it through camp healthy.  

[Jet Life]

McGuire is a guy you can find anywhere late in the draft or UDFA. He does nothing special at all. JAG player. Cannon not good either but can maybe provide some ST value 

[GREENBEAN]

Powell has shown over his career that he cant be counted on.  Hes coming off an injury which no one was sure, still dont, know if he will be himself.  Hes older than the rest for bonus point.
I would be shocked if hes on the roster and one of the others is gone

Why can’t Powell be counted on? I see him as a very reliable runner, pass catcher and protector on pass blocking. I actually feel he is the exact opposite. One of the only consistent players on very inconsistent teams.


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[RobR]

2 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

Why can’t Powell be counted on? I see him as a very reliable runner, pass catcher and protector on pass blocking. I actually feel he is the exact opposite. One of the only consistent players on very inconsistent teams.


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He's on the wrong side of thirty, is coming off of a major injury, and has dealt with injury issues his entire career. Expecting him to be the player he was a couple of years ago is like mining for fools gold. He was a great Jet but probably falls in line with the Murrells and Baxters of our past. Never dominant, just OK.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, GREENBEAN said:

Why can’t Powell be counted on? I see him as a very reliable runner, pass catcher and protector on pass blocking. I actually feel he is the exact opposite. One of the only consistent players on very inconsistent teams.


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He gets hurt every time he gotten the number imsopt.  I appreciate the guy but, he is what he is.  A mediocre back who been around too long.

[GREENBEAN]

7 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

He gets hurt every time he gotten the number imsopt.  I appreciate the guy but, he is what he is.  A mediocre back who been around too long.

I would think being in a 3rd back role behind Bell and Montgomery is the perfect role for him at this point. He is simply more dynamic than Mcguire will ever be and while he is obviously older, I don't see Mcguire being worth retaining if we don't have to. Bilal Powell for one year until Gase/Douglas can bring in a back they like to groom behind Bell would be more valuable than having a guy who will most likely never be the feature back. Mcguire is fine if it ends up that way, but I'd rather go with Bilal for 2019.  I'll admit there is a touch of emotion behind my thoughts though.  I see Powell as very reliable. 

 

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, GREENBEAN said:

I would think being in a 3rd back role behind Bell and Montgomery is the perfect role for him at this point. He is simply more dynamic than Mcguire will ever be and while he is obviously older, I don't see Mcguire being worth retaining if we don't have to. Bilal Powell for one year until Gase/Douglas can bring in a back they like to groom behind Bell would be more valuable than having a guy who will most likely never be the feature back. Mcguire is fine if it ends up that way, but I'd rather go with Bilal for 2019.  I'll admit there is a touch of emotion behind my thoughts though.  I see Powell as very reliable. 

 

Very reliable?  When did he ever show that?  And now we're expecting more after surgery to fix a career threatening injury?  

Te second part is as I said earlier.  Philly has a lot of talented backs on their roster.  Backs Joe Douglas brought in.  Someone's going and all are better, younger  options than Powell.  

[GREENBEAN]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Very reliable?  When did he ever show that?  And now we're expecting more after surgery to fix a career threatening injury?  

Te second part is as I said earlier.  Philly has a lot of talented backs on their roster.  Backs Joe Douglas brought in.  Someone's going and all are better, younger  options than Powell.  

he's missed 7 games in his entire career prior to this injury that Bowles made sound much worse than it was.  Powell did an interview this week where he said the doctors (he saw more than one) literally never spoke about the injury being career ending. Powell has been a very solid and reliable back. He's no Zeke Elliot but come on. His averae has always been 4 YPC or above and he's a solid pass protector. Outside of age, which is legit he's a good option as a 3rd back. 

I can see the Eagles backs coming in as you said, but keeping it to the thread topic, I would see Powell as a better option than Mcguire and I see Cannon as making the team for his ST play. 

 

Date	League	Injury	Details
Oct 21, 2018	NFL	Cervical Neck	Powell underwent surgery for a bulging disk in his neck.
Oct 8, 2017	NFL	Leg Calf Strain	Powell missed 1 game.
Oct 15, 2015	NFL	Pedal Ankle Sprain Grade 2	Powell missed 4 games.
Nov 11, 2012	NFL	Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1	Powell returned the following week after getting concussed against Seattle.
Oct 14, 2012	NFL	Shoulder Dislocation	After a hard hit against the Colts, Powell was sidelined for the final quarter of the game plus the following 2 weeks.

[GREENBEAN]

23 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

The addition of TM has made Powell nothing more than an emergency back. He does everything Powell can do and is younger and better. In a pinch he can be the lead back. I see no reason the retain Powell with TM on the team. 

As far as the other two, I really wanted to like McGuire but he has shown to bt JAG. If Cannon got rid of the fumble problem, he would be great on ST. Problem is he hasn't  done it to date.

Someone wrote we are removing the stench of Mac. I can think of nothing that would do that better than getting rid of his players that never contributed.  

All three can be cut and we probably don't  miss a beat

That doesn't mean removing guys just due to the fact that Macchiato's brought them in though. Peake may fall into that category of non contributors.  I can see getting rid of guys that Macc felt compelled to keep like Lee, but if a player can contribute and he's already on the team it's not smart to create a need. 

 

[GREENBEAN]

9 hours ago, RobR said:

He's on the wrong side of thirty, is coming off of a major injury, and has dealt with injury issues his entire career. Expecting him to be the player he was a couple of years ago is like mining for fools gold. He was a great Jet but probably falls in line with the Murrells and Baxters of our past. Never dominant, just OK.

He's barely been injured. No more than the nagging types of things most players deal with.