Oline troubles

[Jetster]

Amazing what happens when QBs play behind Olines with injuries. 

So last night they were talking about how the Chargers had a couple of injuries on their Oline. Rivers throws 4 picks. 16 year veteran. Mahomes had an awful game except for a couple of runs for 68 yards after Hill went out & he's still got Kelce, Watkins, Hardman. 

This fan base is way too hard on our young QB. He's trying to learn a new system with very little support. And he's played behind lines that ranked at the bottom of the league with him behind center. Not ranked 20, but 31st & 32nd, DEAD LAST. 

When Brady calls it a day, Sam Darnold still might be 23,24,25 years old even if Brady miraculously plays 3 more years. We don't need Sam to be the best QB in the league (obviously we hope he becomes that), but if he's better than any other QB in the division at least we'll have a shot each year of making the playoffs & have Super Bowl runs. 

[Philc1]

Our OL has looked much better since the stiffs Kalil and Winters got hurt

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Our OL has looked much better since the stiffs Kalil and Winters got hurt

and beachum came back.

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Our OL has looked much better since the stiffs Kalil and Winters got hurt

Pass blocking was good against the worst team in the NFL. Run blocking was still terrible.

[Integrity28]

Hit take, DuuC.

[sec101row23]

Sam will be fine.  I know the age thing is brought up a lot, but it’s significant.  Tua Tagovailoa will be 22 years old at the time of the draft next year.  Him and Sam will be the same age.  Mayfield will be 25 come draft time.  The learning curve for Sam may be slightly longer than for some other guys, but he’ll get there.  
 

Also, Joe Burrow turns 23 on December 10th of THIS year.   He’s a year older than Darnold.  

[bitonti]

The line needs more but Sam plays much better with Harrison than Kalil.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app

[New York Mick]

The oline sucks, it did suck, it has sucked and it will suck until they bring in better players. They played two of the worst teams in the NFL and still couldn’t get a running game. 

[Philc1]

57 minutes ago, rangerous said:

and beachum came back.

I’d resign Beachum to a 2 year deal

 

i doubt we get a franchise LT in the draft plus we have a ton of holes

[Philc1]

45 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The line needs more but Sam plays much better with Harrison than Kalil.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Harrison is fine you don’t need a superstar at C

[rangerous]

26 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I’d resign Beachum to a 2 year deal

 

i doubt we get a franchise LT in the draft plus we have a ton of holes

maybe.  that means they don't necessarily have to use the first round pick on a lt.  or they could pick the lt and put him on the right side before shifting him.

[Joe W. Namath]

Oline looks better when Gase was forced to change it because.  We all knew harrison was better then khalil and compton then winters 2 months ago.

Wake up Adam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JetFaninMI]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

Pass blocking was good against the worst team in the NFL. Run blocking was still terrible.

THIS.

They still can't run block to save their lives. Pass blocking is getting better but if you can't run you can't win. Hopefully they can improve in this department too.

[freestater]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

Pass blocking was good against the worst team in the NFL. Run blocking was still terrible.

I'm as tough on these guys as much as anybody, but did you happen to notice that when Powell and Montgomery were in they were getting through holes and picking up chunks of yardage? I had forgotten that Montgomery was even on the team, tbh. I love Bell but RB2 and RB3 were outperforming him this week. 

[carlito1171]

37 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I’d resign Beachum to a 2 year deal

 

i doubt we get a franchise LT in the draft plus we have a ton of holes

Well I mean we could take Andrew Thomas with our 1st rd pick...but yea I wouldn’t mind bringing Beachum back if we don’t draft a bluechipper 

[section314]

Was switching back and forth to the Ravens/Texans game Sunday during timeouts of our game. Fouts was talking about the Raven Oline, saying that outside of Yanda, the other 4 starters have been playing 4 years or less, and all are their draft picks. Since Douglass learned from Ozie and deCosta, here's hoping the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.?

 

 

 

[Joe W. Namath]

29 minutes ago, freestater said:

I'm as tough on these guys as much as anybody, but did you happen to notice that when Powell and Montgomery were in they were getting through holes and picking up chunks of yardage? I had forgotten that Montgomery was even on the team, tbh. I love Bell but RB2 and RB3 were outperforming him this week. 

Agree.  Leveon bell has been awful.  Hes stuck in mud.  Once we put guys on the field that can move, we ran it much better.

it started last Sunday but you could see bell is starting to lose reps.  i think that will increase and we will start to see less and less of bell each week.  he stinks.

[nyjunc]

Just now, Joe W. Namath said:

Agree.  Leveon bell has been awful.  Hes stuck in mud.  Once we put guys on the field that can move, we ran it much better.

it started last Sunday but you could see bell is starting to lose reps.  i think that will increase and we will start to see less and less of bell each week.  he stinks.

2 things on Bell, he doesn't look fully healthy (he's lacking his burst) and his running style is not a good one for this OL. Powell looks a lot better and obviously he's nowhere near the RB Bell is.

[PepPep]

1 hour ago, New York Mick said:

The oline sucks, it did suck, it has sucked and it will suck until they bring in better players. They played two of the worst teams in the NFL and still couldn’t get a running game. 

 

2 hours ago, Maxman said:

Pass blocking was good against the worst team in the NFL. Run blocking was still terrible.

The run game was better than it was with Kalil and Winters. 

[PepPep]

43 minutes ago, rangerous said:

maybe.  that means they don't necessarily have to use the first round pick on a lt.  or they could pick the lt and put him on the right side before shifting him.

 

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

I’d resign Beachum to a 2 year deal

 

i doubt we get a franchise LT in the draft plus we have a ton of holes

I think we need to invest in O-line early and often in this draft. I'm not going to say we HAVE to draft a LT no matter what in the 1st round without knowing where we pick or who will be available but I do know that even if the Jets do re-sign Beachem on a short term deal, he is a on the verge of falling off a cliff and a very temporary fix at best. I mean, we already know he can't hold his own against top competition. So, if Andrew Thomas is there, you take him, if Wirfs is there I would probably take him too- he is versatile and if he ended up being a Pro Bowl caliber OG or RT rather than a LT in the NFL I would not mind that one bit. Although I don;t nec. see why Wirfs can't be an NFL LT. 

I really like Leatherwood if we trade down a few spots.

I really like Prince Tega Wanogho as a second round prospect. 

The Jets HAVE to draft multiple O-linemen early in the draft to rebuild this O-line, regardless of the FAs the end up bringing in or bringing back. 

[ASH1962]

Pat Mahomes fights for the pink team. Ever notice the way he walks around LOL. 

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, rangerous said:

maybe.  that means they don't necessarily have to use the first round pick on a lt.  or they could pick the lt and put him on the right side before shifting him.

I don’t know if Thomas is going to be available where we draft.  If we go on a major run and end up 8-8 we may not have a shot at him he’s a much better prospect than Jonah was last year

[Philc1]

9 minutes ago, PepPep said:

 

I think we need to invest in O-line early and often in this draft. I'm not going to say we HAVE to draft a LT no matter what in the 1st round without knowing where we pick or who will be available but I do know that even if the Jets do re-sign Beachem on a short term deal, he is a on the verge of falling off a cliff and a very temporary fix at best. I mean, we already know he can't hold his own against top competition. So, if Andrew Thomas is there, you take him, if Wirfs is there I would probably take him too- he is versatile and if he ended up being a Pro Bowl caliber OG or RT rather than a LT in the NFL I would not mind that one bit. Although I don;t nec. see why Wirfs can't be an NFL LT. 

I really like Leatherwood if we trade down a few spots.

I really like Prince Tega Wanogho as a second round prospect. 

The Jets HAVE to draft multiple O-linemen early in the draft to rebuild this O-line, regardless of the FAs the end up bringing in or bringing back. 

We only have one first round pick and a ton of holes.  If Andrew Thomas there great but he may not be

[RevisIsland610]

Has Bell had a run of 10+ all year?  I think both Powell and Montgomery did in limited reps on Sunday. It's concerning. 

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, RevisIsland610 said:

Has Bell had a run of 10+ all year?  I think both Powell and Montgomery did in limited reps on Sunday. It's concerning. 

He’s been hurt since week 1

[jetstream23]

3 hours ago, Jetster said:

Amazing what happens when QBs play behind Olines with injuries. 

So last night they were talking about how the Chargers had a couple of injuries on their Oline. Rivers throws 4 picks. 16 year veteran. Mahomes had an awful game except for a couple of runs for 68 yards after Hill went out & he's still got Kelce, Watkins, Hardman. 

This fan base is way too hard on our young QB. He's trying to learn a new system with very little support. And he's played behind lines that ranked at the bottom of the league with him behind center. Not ranked 20, but 31st & 32nd, DEAD LAST. 

When Brady calls it a day, Sam Darnold still might be 23,24,25 years old even if Brady miraculously plays 3 more years. We don't need Sam to be the best QB in the league (obviously we hope he becomes that), but if he's better than any other QB in the division at least we'll have a shot each year of making the playoffs & have Super Bowl runs. 

No doubt in my mind that Darnold can be a Top 10 NFL QB in a few short years.  And, quite honestly, that's all you really need him to be IF the things around him are good as well.  You don't need a Top 3 QB.  Brady hasn't been elite for several years now but the Pats roster and coaching are solid up and down.  Matt Ryan, Jared Goff, Nick Foles....all Super Bowl participants in recent years.  Mahomes, Brees, Case Keenum were QBs in Conference Championship Games the past couple years.  A Top 10 guy can get you there.....and I think Sam is on he way to being that.

[greenwave81]

1 hour ago, freestater said:

I'm as tough on these guys as much as anybody, but did you happen to notice that when Powell and Montgomery were in they were getting through holes and picking up chunks of yardage? I had forgotten that Montgomery was even on the team, tbh. I love Bell but RB2 and RB3 were outperforming him this week. 

The difference being Powell is a pick a hole and go back, while Le’Veon takes his time to find what he thinks is the best route...and our OL can’t maintain blocks For sh*t. This Ol and Le’Veon are a mismatch

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

3 hours ago, Jetster said:

Amazing what happens when QBs play behind Olines with injuries. 

So last night they were talking about how the Chargers had a couple of injuries on their Oline. Rivers throws 4 picks. 16 year veteran. Mahomes had an awful game except for a couple of runs for 68 yards after Hill went out & he's still got Kelce, Watkins, Hardman. 

This fan base is way too hard on our young QB. He's trying to learn a new system with very little support. And he's played behind lines that ranked at the bottom of the league with him behind center. Not ranked 20, but 31st & 32nd, DEAD LAST. 

When Brady calls it a day, Sam Darnold still might be 23,24,25 years old even if Brady miraculously plays 3 more years. We don't need Sam to be the best QB in the league (obviously we hope he becomes that), but if he's better than any other QB in the division at least we'll have a shot each year of making the playoffs & have Super Bowl runs. 

I've been on this topic since Day 1 of Darnold's career.

All you need to do is actually WATCH the action.

If you do you'll be forced to admit that he can't be properly evaluated by just looking at his stats playing behind his so-called OL.  I swear you put Tom Brady behind the exact same OL, there would have been calls by fans even last year saying "Oh yeah...he's done".

Has Darnold made some poor decisions?  Made some bad throws?  Of course....but just you wait until he has any semblance of an OL that can create a pocket more than once every 2 weeks.

And if you want to look at stats, that he has completed 63% of his passes and would have a QBR over 100 if the New England game where he had .1 second to make a decision was tossed is pretty amazing.

[jetstream23]

7 minutes ago, RevisIsland610 said:

Has Bell had a run of 10+ all year?  I think both Powell and Montgomery did in limited reps on Sunday. It's concerning. 

He's been injured on and off the whole year.  I also think he's a bit miscast in the structure of the running game we currently have.  I recall starting a thread or writing a lengthy post about this in August or September, saying that the Jets were in a Catch-22.  Bell seems to run better in a man-blocking scheme rather than zone.  He wants OLinemen to quickly get on blocks so that HE can identify the gap or the one unblocked guy he'll have to beat.  The Jets run more zone-blocking it seems.  The problem is that our personnel seem slightly better suited for that and it has helped in some pass protection.  So, what do you do?  Do you block in a scheme that might be better for what your OLinemen can do or do you block using techniques that your RB loves?  I'm not surprised that "quick hole hitters" like Powell or Montgomery have had some success recently.

[New York Mick]

49 minutes ago, PepPep said:

 

The run game was better than it was with Kalil and Winters. 

And? It still sucks

[Apache 51]

'' Oline Troubles''

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[jetstream23]

2 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

I've been on this topic since Day 1 of Darnold's career.

All you need to do is actually WATCH the action.

If you do you'll be forced to admit that he can't be properly evaluated by just looking at his stats playing behind his so-called OL.  I swear you put Tom Brady behind the exact same OL, there would have been calls by fans even last year saying "Oh yeah...he's done".

Has Darnold made some poor decisions?  Made some bad throws?  Of course....but just you wait until he has any semblance of an OL that can create a pocket more than once every 2 weeks.

And if you want to look at stats, that he has completed 63% of his passes and would have a QBR over 100 if the New England game where he had .1 second to make a decision was tossed is pretty amazing.

Lots to talk about with Sam, but let me pick one thing in what you said that I've seen turn from a negative to a positive.  We all know that Sam has little Favre in him in terms of not being afraid to take a chance, make an off-script/risky throw, be a bit of a gunslinger.  It was Sam's MO in college.....great talent, great arm, sometimes careless with the football.  And, that can sometimes work (as it did vs. the Giants) or not (Patriots).  But, I think Sam is becoming more aware of his tendency to do this and has been getting better at quickly making the risk/reward decision.

Sam also seems to learn from these mistakes in game.  Last week vs. the Redskins is a good example.  He made one really bad mistake in a game that was the Jets to lose.  We didn't need him to take chances, he didn't have to play above his head for the Jets to win.  But he made a bad throw while about to get sacked and it turned into an INT.  As we all know an Incompletion (throw it away) is better than a sack.  But a sack is better than an INT.  Sam should have taken the sack if he couldn't get the ball out of bounds there.  The POSITIVE is that I didn't see him do this again the rest of the game.  He threw a couple balls out of bounds and settled for some situations where a punt would be better than a turnover.  This is growth IMO.  I like that there's some gunslinger in him....we'll really need it at some point to win games when the Jets are outmatched.  But calculating the risk/reward on each play, knowing the situation and understanding the Incompletion > Sack > INT precedence is what makes good QBs become great QBs.  Perfect example - Jamies Winston.  Lots of TDs and lots of INTs.  He's just out there throwing it.  Has all the talent in the world but doesn't seem to be able to pump the "mental brakes" on a play that is going to go sideways on him.

[jetstream23]

6 minutes ago, Apache 51 said:

'' Oline Troubles''

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Ha!  Yeah, that was kind of a polite way to describe it.

Did you hear about the Titanic?  It was a disturbing boat ride.

[Maxman]

2 hours ago, PepPep said:

 

The run game was better than it was with Kalil and Winters. 

Yes but the jury is out because it was the Redskins. That being said it would be hard to get worse than Kalil and Winters.

[sec101row23]

1 hour ago, RevisIsland610 said:

Has Bell had a run of 10+ all year?  I think both Powell and Montgomery did in limited reps on Sunday. It's concerning. 

Even Adams had a nice run called back by a holding penalty.  He looked visibly faster than Bell as well.  Sometimes these backs Just lose it.  We’ve seen it before.  The really good backs can still make something out of nothing sometimes, Bell looks old.  Hard to justify bringing him back at a $15 million cap hit.  I’d move him in March.