Sam Darnold haters = clueless

[Matt39]

 

23 minutes ago, Dcat said:

And why does this message board ignore the FACT that Darnold throws off his back foot constantly?  Darnold is not being coached well at all (unless he is a complete a-hole who is uncoachable. But Darnold's personality screams the opposite of that).

Throwing off of your backfoot/footwork are bad habits that need to be fixed in high school/college and at worst the offseason. There's no time in season to be doing this. We knew his flaws going in. It's not like his tape at USC looks much different than what he's doing now.

[UntouchableCrew]

24 minutes ago, Dcat said:

And why does this message board ignore the FACT that Darnold throws off his back foot constantly?  Darnold is not being coached well at all (unless he is a complete a-hole who is uncoachable. But Darnold's personality screams the opposite of that).

Adam Gase sucks but I'm fairly confident nobody is coaching Darnold to throw off his back foot.

[Dcat]

Just now, UntouchableCrew said:

Adam Gase sucks but I'm fairly confident nobody is coaching Darnold to throw off his back foot.

My fear is that nobody is coaching Darnold how to NOT elect to throw off his back foot.  If that is happening, then the inference from your statement is that Darnold might be uncoachable.  I don't think so.  I think Gase isn't coaching him well.  At all.

[JustInFudge]

38 minutes ago, Lith said:

I like Darnold.  Optimistic about his upside -- he is far from a finished product and hopefully will improve with better weapons and an improved OL.  But here is what gives me concern.  These are his splits by quarter and when trailing late:

Split	Value	Cmp	Att	Inc	Cmp%	Yds	TD	1D	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	1D
Quarter	1st Qtr	130	189	59	68.78	1294	6	63	7	83.1	11	-78	6.8	5.81	15	77	5.1	1	6
	2nd Qtr	142	234	92	60.68	1794	13	77	4	96.0	19	-125	7.7	8.01	20	33	1.7	1	6
	3rd Qtr	103	176	73	58.52	1160	9	60	8	76.4	11	-71	6.6	5.57	10	53	5.3	0	4
	4th Qtr	137	256	119	53.52	1641	8	77	9	69.2	22	-142	6.4	5.45	32	37	1.2	1	6
	1st Half	272	423	151	64.30	3088	19	140	11	90.2	30	-203	7.3	7.03	35	110	3.1	2	12
	2nd Half	240	432	192	55.56	2801	17	137	17	72.1	33	-213	6.5	5.50	42	90	2.1	1	10
Split	Value	Cmp	Att	Inc	Cmp%	Yds	TD	1D	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	1D
Game Situation	Leading, < 2 min to go	1	1	0	100.00	17	0	1	0	118.8	0	0	17.0	17.00	17	-21	-1.2	0	0
	Leading, < 4 min to go	5	8	3	62.50	46	0	3	0	78.1	0	0	5.8	5.75	17	-21	-1.2	0	0
	Trailing, < 2 min to go	35	81	46	43.21	425	0	16	4	39.4	7	-43	5.2	3.02	2	16	8.0	0	1
	Trailing, < 4 min to go	44	101	57	43.56	513	0	20	6	34.8	8	-48	5.1	2.41	2	16	8.0	0	1

He has not been good in 4th quarter, especially when trailing late.  One of the things I want out of a franchise QB is a guy who can elevate his play in the 4th quarter with the game on the line.  Darnold has not shown ability to do that.  At least not yet.

Upgrade his weapons, build the OL and see if he can take the next step next season. 

In general, he seems to press when he thinks they need big plays.  You can even break this down to his play in tight situations.  When he scrambles, it's like he's always looking for the big play instead of just taking what he can get.  The overthrown INT that was called back, granted his check down was taken away but he could have run for the 1st or thrown it away but for some reasons when he scrambles, he's always looking big.  I think the same can be said when he's trailing.

Now, on the flip side and something that was encouraging this season is that in 4 of the wins this year, the Jets had a lead and either had a chance to put the game away or increase a lead requiring an additional score for the opposing offense; Dallas, Miami, Pitt, Buffalo and in the Miami game, he led the game winning drive for the Ficken FG.

So I think we've seen both sides of the coin.

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Dunnie said:

In his own words "wins ... Lots of wins"

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

So you think this team, what was actually playing games were capable of getting lots of wins?  7 were underachieving? 

[Maxman]

2 hours ago, nico002 said:

Trolls/people that are absolutely clueless 

they see an INT and their vagina is instantly filled with sand 

it’s like they haven’t watched football for last 30 years

So this is actually bannable. Just letting you know.

[Thai Jet]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

I like you but didn’t like your post. Happens.

You're mixed up. He was wondering why YOUR post got neg repped by Dr. Jet. He was defending you.

[Drums]

It all comes down to wins. Those QBs all have Super Bowls. I was watching the Seahawks last night and I couldn’t help but wish we had a culture like that. But it all comes from winning. One day we will start winning and I hope it is because of Sam and not in spite of him. 

[jgb]

2 hours ago, Losmeister said:

it wasnt even my post i was talking about!!! sometimes i wonder wtf? but mostly i dont gaf...

 

 

1 minute ago, Thai Jet said:

You're mixed up. He was wondering why YOUR post got neg repped by Dr. Jet. He was defending you.

Oops @Losmeister my infinite apologies I thought you were asking why I neg repped OP. My bad bro!

[Losmeister]

18 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

How do you feel about him throwing on the run while eluding defenders?

He DOES make SOME plays that way. He also misses many. I'd love to see the out of pocket stats.

I mean...   I dont know exactly WhAT those stats would reveal. But I am thinkinig its not as rosy as some would have me believe. The one INT that we escaped by defensive penalty was simply way behind Crowder. 

[Losmeister]

6 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

You're mixed up. He was wondering why YOUR post got neg repped by Dr. Jet. He was defending you.

THIS!!!!

[Losmeister]

9 minutes ago, Maxman said:

So this is actually bannable. Just letting you know.

[Losmeister]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

 

Oops @Losmeister my infinite apologies I thought you were asking why I neg repped OP. My bad bro!

we goot

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Losmeister said:

we goot

Was tempted to butt fumble this post just cause.  

thanks bro 

[deucebag]

5 hours ago, Newjetsfan said:

Big Ben averages 1INT a game for the last 6 years...

Rivers the same...

Brees as well....

So they must not be franchise QBs?

Its more than just interceptions bro - Darnold's inaccuracy and misreads have not improved.  I am hoping an improved OL and WRs will help the jitters go away.

[Losmeister]

Just now, jgb said:

Was tempted to butt fumble this post just cause.  

thanks bro 

like i sed earlier, i got butt fumbles up the arse...   one more aint gonna change the state o the sphincter!

 

[Dcat]

1 minute ago, Losmeister said:

like i sed earlier, i got butt fumbles up the arse...   one more aint gonna change the state o the sphincter!

 

Hey, when you think about it, that should be the obvious place to store them.

[Bowles Movement]

8 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

He DOES make SOME plays that way. He also misses many. I'd love to see the out of pocket stats.

I mean...   I dont know exactly WhAT those stats would reveal. But I am thinkinig its not as rosy as some would have me believe. The one INT that we escaped by defensive penalty was simply way behind Crowder. 

Without knowing the answer what stats would you be happy with?

[Jet Life]

Im a big Sam believer and think hes done some great things with nothing around him, but its fair to want to see better results. I dont think that makes the skeptical crowd haters

[ASH1962]

First of all, I am 100% behind Sam and hope he becomes the FQB we so hope he will, however, the guy never throws a ball longer than 10 yards and in my humble opinion is soft, henceforth my nicknaming him 

I hope I am totally wrong here, I really do, but apparently, nobody has told the Jets that if you throw long once in a while, maybe you get a PI flag or holding call in your favor. But we continue this maddening dink and dunk crap resulting in 18 play 50 yard drives for FG's, while scoring 17 points a game. They are boring and hard to watch and I for one, am totally glad this season is now over.

[ZachEY]

27 minutes ago, Maxman said:

So this is actually bannable. Just letting you know.

Can’t do that.  The website would collapse without him.  He said so.

[Losmeister]

7 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

Without knowing the answer what stats would you be happy with?

oh...   at least the NFL average, slightly higher would be preferable.

[ZachEY]

10 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

Without knowing the answer what stats would you be happy with?

From an advanced stats perspective, it would be nice to see a guy who you spent 4 high picks on, be higher than 32nd in DYAR and 31st in DVOA.

[Losmeister]

for those w/ any sorta Josh Allen envy

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/12/nfl-bills-josh-allen-stats-film-study

 

[Jets723]

4 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

From an advanced stats perspective, it would be nice to see a guy who you spent 4 high picks on, be higher than 32nd in DYAR and 31st in DVOA.

I don’t like just looking at stats because they don’t tell the whole story.  Sam has things he needs to work on no doubt about it but I think we agree that he has little to no support.  I dont think it’s fair to say” we traded 3 second rounders so he should rise above the crappy oline and no weapons”.  I would feel the same way for any QB.  So yes I agree Sam needs to take a big step forward next year but I still have mostly liked what I’ve seen despite the injuries and lack of talent around him

[roscoeword]

I love Sam and root for him like crazy. But he doesn't pass the eye test with me. it's not the interceptions, it's more like he still has mono. he seems to lack energy. he never makes plays with his feet. He doesn't seem quick... He makes "wow" throws sometimes, but not 'wow' plays. I fear he will be at best Andy Daulton.

[Warfish]

6 hours ago, Newjetsfan said:

I admit I am a fan of Sam.

We're all fans of Sam, because Sam is the QB of the New York Jets, and we're all New York Jets Fans.  You don't get a merit badge for saying this.

6 hours ago, Newjetsfan said:

Bashing Darnold for ints...etc.

So you're ok with Darnold's rate of turnovers then.  Got it.

6 hours ago, Newjetsfan said:

1st 6 full season average for these Hall of Fame QBs:

Tom Brady 15.8 gms, 24.5TD/13INT, 30.3sacks

Payton Manning 16gms, 27.8TD/18.3 INT, 21sacks

Darnold  12.5gms , 18TD/14INT, 32.5sacks

Per 16games 23TD/17.9INT, 42.6 sacks

Of course, other qbs did better in their 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th year but not by much.  All these talks of, "Oh, he better have 30TD to 10 INT in his third year talk is unfounded and stupid.

Big Ben in his third year stat:

15games 17TD/23INT,  46sacks

Tom Brady's First Two Years:

31 games, 30 starts, 20 wins, 10 losses, 637 for 1,014 (62.8%) for 6,607 Yards (6.5 YPA, 213 YPG), 46 TD, 26 INT's, 23 Fumbles, 72 Sacks.

He also was 11-3 and won on a Super Bowl his first year as starter.  He had 28 TD's his 2nd year and a consistent 2:1 TD:INT ratio his first three years.

Peyton Manning's First Two Years:

32 Games, 32 Starts, 16 wins, 16 losses, 657 for 1,108 (59.2%) for 7,874 Yards (7.1 YPA, 246 YPG), 52 TD, 43 INT, 9 Fumbles, 36 Sacks

He was 13-3 as a starter in his second season.  He had 33 TD's in his 3rd year, and threw for over 4,000 yards in his 2nd and 3rd years.  He had only one losing season over his next 14 years.

Ben Rothlisberger's First Two Years:  

26 Games, 25 Starts, 22 wins, 3 losses, 364 for 563 (64.7%) for 5,006 Yards (8.9 YPA, 192 YPG), 34 TD, 20 INT's, 4 Fumbles, 53 Sacks.

His record as a starter was 22-3.  He got to the AFCCG his rookie year.  He won a Super Bowl his second year.  

Sam Darnold's First Two Years:

26 Games, 26 Starts, 11 wins, 15 losses, 512 for 855 (59.9%) for 5,889 Yards (6.9 YPA, 226 YPG), 36 TD's, 28 INT's, 16 Fumbles, 63 Sacks.

He was 7-6 as a starter in 2019. 

6 hours ago, Newjetsfan said:

I can say, Darnold had similar or better than these above QBs in terms of development statistically.

That's an interesting analysis.  

I could point out that your analysis missed material facts (Two Super Bowl winners, Peyton's 30+ TD, 4,000+ passing).

I could point out that this is yet another cherry picked analysis (let's do the same vs. some failures, it may enlighten you to see similar production through similar periods to Sam.  Sam was a mirror, I'll remind you, in most stats and W/L production, to Patrick Ramsey thru 23 starts).  

I could point out that Brady was a rock solid 2:1 TD:INT guy and 60%+ guy from the start, Darnold is not.

I could point out that while Manning threw alot of INT's and was bad his rookie year, he was 13-3 his second year, rarely got sacked because of his speedy release and smarts, and broke the production levels you say we shouldn't expect from Sam, even though you think Sam is on par with Manning.

I could point out that Rothlisberger wasn't kept on because he was a great passer, but because he a big, strong guy and leader who didn't fumble and won almost every game he started (22-3) on a team built around the rush and defense, and he did what was needed to win, not to produce stats (which did get better), winning a Super Bowl after getting to the AFCCG.

Trying to claim equivalence between Darnold and Manning, Brady or other HOF'ers is laughable at this point.  It's also 100% unneccessary!

Almost all of us here at JN, myself included, are 100% behind Sam Darnold as our starter in 2020.  We all support building around him, providing him a much better O-line, at least one #1 WR and more.  We do not need to be convinced he is our best shot in 2020 and (for now) at having a Franchise QB.  No one (or almost no one) wants to cut him, or move on, or draft another starting QB in 2020.

But with that said, we DO expect improvement.  As we should, improvement means more wins!  We want more wins, don't we?

The AVERAGE production of NFL QB's who started and played all 16 games in 2019 is:

16 games, 356 for 559 (63.8%) for 4,164 Yards (7.4 YPA, 260 YPG), 25 TD's, 12 INT's, 36 Sacks.

I think it is ENTIRELY reasonable to want to see Sam Darnold, in 2020, meet this average level of performance while starting 16 games.

If you don't think asking for average is right, that it's too much to ask, so be it.  I expect average.

 

[Big_Slick]

3 hours ago, Losmeister said:

he's played worse than 2017 mclown.

And when Mcclown filled in while Sam was injured in 2018 how many games did he win?

[usanyj]

20 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

First of all, I am 100% behind Sam and hope he becomes the FQB we so hope he will, however, the guy never throws a ball longer than 10 yards and in my humble opinion is soft, henceforth my nicknaming him 

I hope I am totally wrong here, I really do, but apparently, nobody has told the Jets that if you throw long once in a while, maybe you get a PI flag or holding call in your favor. But we continue this maddening dink and dunk crap resulting in 18 play 50 yard drives for FG's, while scoring 17 points a game. They are boring and hard to watch and I for one, am totally glad this season is now over.

To your point, yesterday he did that, and the ball was deflected and picked. Upon replay, it was an obvious PI on crowder that wasn’t called, and then wasn’t challenged by Gase. I’ve seen plenty of qbs throw up 50/50 balls that get caught or picked or a PI. I’ve seen plenty of people call that smart. I’ve seen plenty of people here call it dumb and a bad read when darnold does it and it’s picked. I also think the jets don’t throw downfield enough. I can’t think of a single time this year darnold threw it deep and we got a call that put the ball at the opponents 1 yard line. Doing this, especially late and trailing is a smart play 

[Big_Slick]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

How about starting with training him to stop throwing off his back foot?  It's constant. He will NEVER be a stud until that awful habit is stopped. No progress in that regard.

How about starting with an OL that can give him more than 2 seconds to let the WR's run their routes and give him a pocket to step up and throw the pass. He's got the DL and blitzers in his face from the snap. Should he just take the sack so he doesn't throw off his back foot?

[usanyj]

10 minutes ago, roscoeword said:

I love Sam and root for him like crazy. But he doesn't pass the eye test with me. it's not the interceptions, it's more like he still has mono. he seems to lack energy. he never makes plays with his feet. He doesn't seem quick... He makes "wow" throws sometimes, but not 'wow' plays. I fear he will be at best Andy Daulton.

Any thought in the possibility he was mandated not to take off running because of the spleen and the spleen guard he wore all year? 

[ZachEY]

9 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

I don’t like just looking at stats because they don’t tell the whole story.  Sam has things he needs to work on no doubt about it but I think we agree that he has little to no support.  I dont think it’s fair to say” we traded 3 second rounders so he should rise above the crappy oline and no weapons”.  I would feel the same way for any QB.  So yes I agree Sam needs to take a big step forward next year but I still have mostly liked what I’ve seen despite the injuries and lack of talent around him

Stats "don't tell the whole story" but opinions of Jets fans who have an emotional investment in the outcome is a better measure?  Should we ignore everything else, and go to a Bills, Browns, or Redskins message board for the true evaluations of their respective QBs.  These stats aren't perfect, because there is no perfect measure, but they're certainly better than fans who don't apply their evaluations evenly or fairly.  How many threads here have we had killing Baker Mayfield?  Not one blames Freddie Kitchens for the mess the way Jets fans are perfectly willing to blame Gase for the overwhelming majority of Darnold's problems.

We do agree he has little support.  Not, no support.  That said, when you use 4 high picks on a player, you expect him to be a part of the solution, not someone you need everything to be perfect, or nearly perfect, for.  And, my expectation, and everyone's should be, even with this supporting cast, to be better than 31st and 32nd in these stats.  No one said top 10.  But, not last seems fair and reasonable.

[Jets723]

Just now, TeddEY said:

Stats "don't tell the whole story" but opinions of Jets fans who have an emotional investment in the outcome is a better measure?  Should we ignore everything else, and go to a Bills, Browns, or Redskins message board for the true evaluations of their respective QBs.  These stats aren't perfect, because there is no perfect measure, but they're certainly better than fans who don't apply their evaluations evenly or fairly.  How many threads here have we had killing Baker Mayfield?  Not one blames Freddie Kitchens for the mess the way Jets fans are perfectly willing to blame Gase for the overwhelming majority of Darnold's problems.

We do agree he has little support.  Not, no support.  That said, when you use 4 high picks on a player, you expect him to be a part of the solution, not someone you need everything to be perfect, or nearly perfect, for.  And, my expectation, and everyone's should be, even with this supporting cast, to be better than 31st and 32nd in these stats.  No one said top 10.  But, not last seems fair and reasonable.

Obviously we don’t agree on this but just to make it clear I don’t care what Baker does or any of the other QBs do, I’m simply focused on our QB.  I never said he was great, in fact I said he didn’t take the big step forward like I expected.  However I do feel he has shown more than some think considering the bad situation he is in currently.  I’m the first to admit the things he needs to clean up but I do think he still is important even now when going through consistency issues.  I don’t get hung up on the we traded 3 second rounders thing, I understand that.  He isn’t a finished product yet though so gotta show some patience.  

[Big_Slick]

59 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

I won’t go as far as to call anybody a “hater” I don’t think that is fair.  However I do feel that some are too over critical.  I’m a Sam fan but I have no issue pointing out his mistakes and things he needs to work on. However I also take into account that he doesn’t have much of a support system right now other than Crowder and Robby.  

Sam acknowledges that there are aspects of his game that he needs to improve on and he appears to be working on them. One rap on Sam in college was ball security and fumbles, I noticed that he keeps both hands on the ball when he's forced to scramble and yes he does get strip sacked but that's usually from the blind side after our turnstyle OL fails to even slow down the edge rush.

[Jets723]

Just now, Big_Slick said:

Sam acknowledges that there are aspects of his game that he needs to improve on and he appears to be working on them. One rap on Sam in college was ball security and fumbles, I noticed that he keeps both hands on the ball when he's forced to scramble and yes he does get strip sacked but that's usually from the blind side after our turnstyle OL fails to even slow down the edge rush.

Absolutely.  I think most fans that are pro Sam are pretty fair about issues he needs to fix.  Yes there are some that make too many excuse but on the flip side there are also those that are too overly critical