Trevor Talk

[EM31]

Peyton Manning was a gunslinger in his rookie year no doubt about it, and yes, the Colts did not have a good W-L record that year and yes, he did throw a lot of picks but there was nobody, nobody around the NFL who thought that Manning was anything other than a superstar in the making coming off his rookie year.

Where the eff is this nonsense coming from?

[Wonderboy]

4 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

If we land #1 we take Trevor, and I still believe in Sam. You’d be stupid not to make that pick though.

I think the only real competition we’ll face is from NYG. We look like the only 2-win teams in football. The others all look capable of 3+ wins.

 

The Denver outcome will be quite telling. If we lose to them with a backup qb, it’s pretty obvious the team has totally given up playing for Gase and are just going thru the motions. There a more a few games I believe we can pull an upset: Browns Raiders Dolphins Chargers. We’d be lucky to win 3 games this year.  Most of the weaker teams vying for the #1 puck play against each other so somebody’s got to win those games. The question is: can we beat anybody? 

[peebag]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Full agreement there.  Never use free agency to find anything more than a "bridge guy" at QB.  But that's also a good argument to suggest that, if you aren't sure you have your guy 3 years in (or less, in some circumstances), draft another one. 

The Cardinals gave up on Josh Rosen very quickly and it worked out well.  Why can't we do something similar as the Cardinals?  Hire a solid offensive coach, draft a QB, use your cap space and many picks to build around him.  We can turn this thing around very quickly.  

cuz...Jets.

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol stop it.  Darnold apologists are the ones using those stats in a vacuum, and they have been for the last 9 months.

I picked a data set that made Darnold look as good as possible, and he still came out as average.  

Want context?  5 of those 8 games were against defenses that ranked outside of the top 25 in the league.  That's the context of those stats.

Want different context? Sam had one of the worst OL in HISTORY

[Rhg1084]

41 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

If somehow we end up with the #1 pick.  That would be the unique scenario where you do whatever the kid wants. Let him hand pick his coach - if that's what it takes.  

Would be nice if Lawrence brought him college coach with him here 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, JetBlue said:

Hey I get it but life sucks sometimes.  They  are getting paid so deal with it.  They can always go play for someone else next year.  

Good luck trying to get FAs to. One to the team.  Good luck trying to get players to break their asses the following season.
It all sounds good, sounds easy.  It’s not.  That’s not even taking into account all the times players who seem like 1’s don’t wind up as 1’s or become busts.  
Too many unknowns.  
 

Tua 

[CanadaSteve]

4 hours ago, choon328 said:

Well that's bc last year in the final 8 games he played like a top 10 QB. This year not so much. 

Unfortunately, we were having the conversation prior to the trade deadline.

 

[Greenseed4]

We’re so bad that our backups would be drafting after our starters. 

[ZachEY]

4 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

Just like we don't know yet if Sam will be a top or bottom tier QB this season.  Stats can be twisted any way to prove a point . Take away fantasy football and a majority of these stats wouldn't even exist.

"Stats can be twisted any way to prove a point" is generally something people who's opinion isn't supported by the data like to say.  The data @Jetsfan80 presented was pretty clear, if you took Darnold's "good" half, and extrapolated to a full season, it was still only a league average performance.  I added the fact that Darnold, as per Football Outsiders, played 5 of the 6 worst defenses in the league over that period.  There's no twisting there, there's just proof that he was not a "Top 10 QB" last year.

I suppose you're correct in that we don't know yet if Sam will be a top or bottom tier QB this season.  A lot of things are possible.  It is possible he never throws another INT and never loses another game.  But, the fact that he was a bottom tier QB in year 1, a bottom tier QB in year 2, and a bottom tier QB through the 1st two weeks don't suggest he'll be anything but a bottom tier QB the rest of the way.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

Want different context? Sam had one of the worst OL in HISTORY

Show your work...

[ZachEY]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Pats will be resting their starters after locking up a playoff spot.  

I could see the Browns game being a W as well, because Baker Mayfield is barely better than Darnold.  They also might have some key injuries by then.  And/or Odell Beckham might go full Odell Beckham.  He hasn't been getting as many targets this year with the team going run-heavy.  For now, he says he's OK with it.  We'll see how he feels by Week 16.  

We've lost to the Browns in back to back seasons - last year, it wasn't competitive.  I'm not sure why this time will be any different.

As for the Pats, would you bet on the Jets starters over the Pats back-ups?

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

"Stats can be twisted any way to prove a point" is general something people who's opinion isn't supported by the data like to say.  The data @Jetsfan80 presented was pretty clear, if you took Darnold's "good" half, and extrapolated to a full season, it was still only a league average performance.  I added the fact that Darnold, as per Football Outsiders, played 5 of the 6 worst defenses in the league over that period.  There's no twisting there, there's just proof that he was not a "Top 10 QB" last year.

I suppose you're correct in that we don't know yet if Sam will be a top or bottom tier QB this season.  A lot of things are possible.  It is possible he never throws another INT and never loses another game.  But, the fact that he was a bottom tier QB in year 1, a bottom tier QB in year 2, and a bottom tier QB through the 1st two weeks don't suggest he'll be anything but a bottom tier QB the rest of the way.

And people think trevor lawrence is going to walk into a situation like this and lead us to the promised land?

There have been quite a few bottom tier QBs their 1st few years who were bottom tier because the team talent and or coaching stunk.

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

We've lost to the Browns in back to back seasons - last year, it wasn't competitive.  I'm not sure why this time will be any different.

As for the Pats, would you bet on the Jets starters over the Pats back-ups?

Probably not.  Just saying its possible.  This is the Jets we're talking about.  They suck at tanking.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

Want different context? Sam had one of the worst OL in HISTORY

The OL was playing fine in the final 8 games.  Next excuse please.

[ZachEY]

13 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

And people think trevor lawrence is going to walk into a situation like this and lead us to the promised land?

There have been quite a few bottom tier QBs their 1st few years who were bottom tier because the team talent and or coaching stunk.

I don't think a single person has said that Trevor Lawrence, or Fields, or whomever, would "lead us to the promised land."  Nor, has anyone blamed Darnold exclusively for why the Jets are bad.  But, Darnold is part of the problem, and any time you can't be certain you have a FQB, you need to be looking for a QB.  

And there have been probably a 20X multiple, of young QBs who were bad and stayed that way.  I know we all hope Sam Darnold isn't the QB we see on the field, but the QB we wish he was, but unfortunately, he's the exact same player he was in college, and continues to do dumb and bad things that have literally nothing to do with the people around him.

[ZachEY]

12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Probably not.  Just saying its possible.  This is the Jets we're talking about.  They suck at tanking.  

The thing is, it doesn't seem like "tanking" this year.  It seems like if they gave it 110% every game, they'd still lose.  I mean, will Vegas have us as favorites once this year?

[y2k8]

5 hours ago, choon328 said:

Have you watched them play this year? It doesn't take a genius to see that this team is terrible.  The only hope for this team was a massive progression by Darnold and that doesn't seem to be happening. I'm 100% sure people would rather be talking about how great Darnold and the team look rather then getting the #1 pick but it is what it is. 

It's been a disaster and the coach needs to go.  But it's Week 3. I'm not rooting for losses and I want to see what the QB can do. 

[Icer]

We are a walking disaster, I don't think we have to root for losses they will come naturally. Of course if it comes down to the wire and we are fighting it out with another team for the top pick, we should absolutely lose.

 

Look at what Kyler Murray did for the Cardinals--and they pulled the trigger on that after a single season. We will be going into Year 4 with Darnold as one of the worst QB's in the league, he is playing like damaged goods already and shown little improvement.

[HessStation]

I like, Sever for Trevor with some emo bitch crying In the background 

[HessStation]

35 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Probably not.  Just saying its possible.  This is the Jets we're talking about.  They suck at tanking.  

Will win 3 out of final 4 games after 2-10 start  book it friend 

[Wonderboy]

6 hours ago, BigRy56 said:

Zero chance the Jets are picking #1. Haven't we gone through this before? We're not going to be in a position to land either QB unless they fall. After the first 2 games, the Jets will pick somewhere in the back half of the top 10

We’re not talking about 2019 we’re talking about 2020. So far 2 games in, we are showing to be worse than even the 1st half of last year and what were we 1-7 ?

[RevisIsland610]

6 hours ago, JetBlue said:

Do you REALLY think Cinncinnati will have a worst record than us??  I don't see it.   

You can't have a worse record than 0-16. 

[Icer]

The Broncos game is a turning point on this narrative. They are lacking a ton of their offensive firepower , we will be playing at home and they have a backup QB on short-rest. If we lose that game, we are legit contenders for the top pick.

To me, drafting Lawrence is a no-brainer. Why would Joe Douglas stick with Darnold? He hasn't shown anything in the NFL other than inconsistency, and mediocrity at best. Why attach your one shot at being the GM to a damaged goods QB that you didn't draft? JD will hit the reset button on a much better prospect than Darnold ever was, and start the timeline again on his terms.

[RevisIsland610]

1 minute ago, Wonderboy said:

We’re not talking about 2019 we’re talking about 2020. So far 2 games in, we are showing to be worse than even the 1st half of last year and what were we 1-7 ?

Agreed. We have a worse team(no Adams, no Anderson) with a tougher schedule and more travel. 

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

If somehow we end up with the #1 pick.  That would be the unique scenario where you do whatever the kid wants. Let him hand pick his coach - if that's what it takes.  

We wouldn’t let Peyton Manning do that and that was when we had a semi-competent owner and Bill Parcells running the show

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, JetBlue said:

Gase won't be here. What are you not getting here? 

Lol you think the Johnsons have a clue

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Icer said:

The Broncos game is a turning point on this narrative. They are lacking a ton of their offensive firepower , we will be playing at home and they have a backup QB on short-rest. If we lose that game, we are legit contenders for the top pick.

To me, drafting Lawrence is a no-brainer. Why would Joe Douglas stick with Darnold? He hasn't shown anything in the NFL other than inconsistency, and mediocrity at best. Why attach your one shot at being the GM to a damaged goods QB that you didn't draft? JD will hit the reset button on a much better prospect than Darnold ever was, and start the timeline again on his terms.

More importantly, I believe he'd be a no-brainer to basically every GM. Despite Lamar Jackson's success, the NFL is still largely driven by old school thinking. A 6'6'' prototypical passer who is one of the humblest superstars around will be irresistible over a guy like Fields IMHO.

You even see it here. A not-insubstantial minority of Jets fans have expressed the preference for Darnold over Jackson even if picking now because they believe Jackson will linguini his knee and flame out like RGIII while Darnold will have a longer career.

[Wonderboy]

33 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I don't think a single person has said that Trevor Lawrence, or Fields, or whomever, would "lead us to the promised land."  Nor, has anyone blamed Darnold exclusively for why the Jets are bad.  But, Darnold is part of the problem, and any time you can't be certain you have a FQB, you need to be looking for a QB.  

And there have been probably a 20X multiple, of young QBs who were bad and stayed that way.  I know we all hope Sam Darnold isn't the QB we see on the field, but the QB we wish he was, but unfortunately, he's the exact same player he was in college, and continues to do dumb and bad things that have literally nothing to do with the people around him.

The world is not black and white. And Darnold was the best QB in NCAA his rookie season at USC and was good in his 2nd but dropped off because his OL sucked. And who here werent doing jumping jacks when Mayfield and Barkley went 1-2 and Sam dropped into our laps. If Trevor lands in our lap, ok take him. If not, build around Sam. Finis. 

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

This week will be a blowout. The Jets are trotting out quite possibly the worst starting lineup the NFL has seen in quite some years 

I’m starting Mo Alie Cox as a flex this week

[bealeb319]

Trevor Lawrence will be proudly representing the newly christened and re-colored Washington Warthogs on opening day 2021.
The Jets will pick 3rd, and select a WR.
You will not win the lottery.

Wr? Try defensive end

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[FidelioJet]

10 hours ago, Philc1 said:

We wouldn’t let Peyton Manning do that and that was when we had a semi-competent owner and Bill Parcells running the show

That’s not what happened. It’s one of the most misunderstood situations in the long history of Jet blunders. .
The fact is Archie was only going to let Peyton come out If and only of he knew Parcells would draft him #1 overall. .   Parcels was in win now mode and didn’t want to break in a rookie. 
In other words, Manning wanted to come to the Jets and we told him No. 

[Integrity28]

3 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

The Denver outcome will be quite telling. If we lose to them with a backup qb, it’s pretty obvious the team has totally given up playing for Gase and are just going thru the motions. There a more a few games I believe we can pull an upset: Browns Raiders Dolphins Chargers. We’d be lucky to win 3 games this year.  Most of the weaker teams vying for the #1 puck play against each other so somebody’s got to win those games. The question is: can we beat anybody? 

Just FYI: the team gave up last year, nothing changed. They won games in spite if him.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

Would be nice if Lawrence brought him college coach with him here 

Was just thinking the same thing. If you’re worried about Lawrence staying in school hire Debo. Then I looked at Debo’s salary... $9.3M. Johnsons wouldn’t pay Belichick $9.3M.

[Jetsfan80]

58 minutes ago, Icer said:

The Broncos game is a turning point on this narrative. They are lacking a ton of their offensive firepower , we will be playing at home and they have a backup QB on short-rest. If we lose that game, we are legit contenders for the top pick.

I mean, the 49ers already had injury issues, THEN lost their top pass rushers, Mostert, and their QB.  This after making a trip across the country for a 1 PM game.  They still blew us out.

I don't think we need to see the Denver game to know we're in contention for the top pick.

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, jgb said:

Was just thinking the same thing. If you’re worried about Lawrence staying in school hire Debo. Then I looked at Debo’s salary... $9.3M. Johnsons wouldn’t pay Belichick $9.3M.

And it would take a LOT more than $9.3M to pry Dabo away from Clemson.  If he, or any college coach, is going to make the jump to the NFL, he's going to pick a much better spot than the Jets.