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My QB Plan (For Today At Least)


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Just now, Jetsfan_always said:

As I've said before, Darnold is NOT the problem; the team has no wide receivers, no RB, a crap OL, and one of the worst NFL coachers, ever - you could have stuck Montana or Marino in at QB and it would not have mattered.

Until SD has quality around him, you cannot claim with certainty that he sucks. I do not get how people can be so hard on a guy who has had NOTHING from the GM on down to work with.

They have massive holes across the roster, and until those are addressed they will continue to suck. I am still furious they won two meaningless games to lose out on the #1 pick - but with that they should swap the #2 for a slew of picks and rebuild the offense into a functional unit.

Do me a favor and go look at Watson’s stats over there in Houston. He’s battled through horrible olines and then they deal away his best weapon this year and continues to throw for 30 tds. 
How bout he just plays better?

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I've been totally "wishy-washy" about whether to bring Darnold back or to move on. But in this post I'm going to say move on.  Why?  Because one draft spot shouldn't change the evaluation of Darno

I agree, without question, we're taking a QB. I think it would be insane to do that and then go out and take defense with the next two premium picks.  It would be full-on dereliction of duties.

I don’t disagree. The move here is to take Fields who is an elite top tier athlete like Allen. Built like a tank, Cannon, accurate, 4.4 speed, elusive. The guy has a higher QBR than TL for Christ

3 hours ago, QB1 said:

I don’t disagree.

The move here is to take Fields who is an elite top tier athlete like Allen. Built like a tank, Cannon, accurate, 4.4 speed, elusive. The guy has a higher QBR than TL for Christ’s sake. And pair him with Daboll or Roman. 

Look at how Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen are playing now. Then compare their college tape to Justin Fields college tape. Justin blows the other 2 away as a passer. This isn't a tough choice.

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This is a solid plan. 

I get that some people are gun shy about trying again at another QB prospect after failing with Sam so miserably, but I think you just have to get over it. 

We aren't going to be a consistently good team until we get a QB in here who can really play. Keep drafting a QB until you have a QB.

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1 hour ago, KRL said:

Do the people "bashing" the CB & Edge picks realize that they are our "desert" positions?

We need to get quality there not late round flyers 

Yes, but we have had the worst offense in the NFL for the last 2 years and a serviceable defense is a road to nowhere

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4 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree, without question, we're taking a QB.

they are going to take a QB 

the question is there a QB worth the 2 pick 

so far it's not clear

this MUST DRAFT QB plan of KRL and yours assumes these players are good or even decent

it often also assumes trade down is a great move (historically the team trading up gets the better player)_ 

there's alot to like (and dislike) about Fields and Wilson, more likely these are top 10-15 types not top 5 types

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My QB plan:

1) do not waste draft assets on a rookie QB only setting him up to fail on an incomplete, bad team.

2) JD says he will always listen to trade offers. If GMs make offers for Darnold and JD likes the value being offered, trade Darnold. If JD doesn't like the value offered, do not trade Darnold.

3) Bring in an Marcus Marriota or some other QB with starting experience to compete with Darnold (if not traded) and Morgan and/or Flacco (if he sticks around).

4) Build the team

5) in 2022 start looking to draft a rookie QB to put behind a complete team.

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4 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree, without question, we're taking a QB.

I think it would be insane to do that and then go out and take defense with the next two premium picks.  It would be full-on dereliction of duties.

Both of those picks need...I repeat NEED to be offense or JD should be fired on the spot.

Ok. But in this scenario we just brought in Thuney and Robinson. I think if THAT is how FA goes you have to at least consider a CB or Edge player if the value is there. Just saying. But in general, I agree, you would want to add another O-lineman or weapon for your your QB. 

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

Sam Darnold in year 4 of his career and 23 years old is a better QB prospect than Wilson and Fields at 21 

it's a low bar but there it is 

Yea - I just don't buy this. 

I'm not pretending to know that Fields or Wilson (or Lance) are going to be good pros, but we have seen Darnold start 37 games in the pros and perform at or near the bottom the league in most QB metrics. We basically know that he isn't the guy. I don't know that about Fields or Wilson (or Lance). 

 

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1 minute ago, BroadwayJoe12 said:

A franchise QB who’s worth it in the 10-15 range but not the top 5 range, is not a franchise QB. 

that too 

there's a very real possibility Fields can't read a defense and Wilson spends his career on IR 

that's why they don't go top 5 

eventually they become value to pick but they aren't "franchise" prospects more like projects who you hope outperforms the draft slot 

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5 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

My QB plan:

1) do not waste draft assets on a rookie QB only setting him up to fail on an incomplete, bad team.

2) JD says he will always listen to trade offers. If GMs make offers for Darnold and JD likes the value being offered, trade Darnold. If JD doesn't like the value offered, do not trade Darnold.

3) Bring in an Marcus Marriota or some other QB with starting experience to compete with Darnold (if not traded) and Morgan and/or Flacco (if he sticks around).

4) Build the team

5) in 2022 start looking to draft a rookie QB to put behind a complete team.

Did Archie Manning tell you that?? LOL

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1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Yea - I just don't buy this. 

I'm not pretending to know that Fields or Wilson (or Lance) are going to be good pros, but we have seen Darnold start 37 games in the pros and perform at or near the bottom the league in most QB metrics. We basically know that he isn't the guy. I don't know that about Fields or Wilson (or Lance). 

 

I wouldn't have bought it either

 

Trey Lance is actually a super interesting prospect but noone's seen what he can do vs real competition 

unfortunately none of these guys are worth the 2 pick, not without some serious self-convincing 

This is not a Pro Sam post it's more like after Trevor there's no obvious upgrades out there 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Yea - I just don't buy this. 

I'm not pretending to know that Fields or Wilson (or Lance) are going to be good pros, but we have seen Darnold start 37 games in the pros and perform at or near the bottom the league in most QB metrics. We basically know that he isn't the guy. I don't know that about Fields or Wilson (or Lance). 

 

darnold isn't even close to average.  and i think it makes the decision that much easier to move on from him.

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4 hours ago, KRL said:

I've been totally "wishy-washy" about whether to bring Darnold back or to move on.
But in this post I'm going to say move on.  Why?  Because one draft spot shouldn't
change the evaluation of Darnold's performance.  If we got the #1 spot Douglas would've
put Darnold on the market immediately, no questions asked.  Should being in the #2 spot
change his thought process that drastically?  Granted there's a "perceived" difference
between Lawrence and Fields or Wilson (we'll see) but there's no difference in Darnold's
performance.  He's been uneven and below average no matter what our draft position is.
I say re-start the "QB $$$ clock" and use what BUF did with Josh Allen as our model to
reset the QB position.  In 2018 there is no QB I wanted less than Josh Allen, he was a
physical freak who had poor accuracy and "wet the bed" against decent competition.  In
3 years a good offensive staff has grown Allen in every facet of QB play until he's now
a legitimate MVP candidate.  You could've never convinced me that Allen would ever be a
QB that could complete 68% of his passes:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3918298/josh-allen

So I'm going to put the pressure on Douglas and his staff to:

- Find the right HC with an innovative offensive staff who has a real plan to grow a QB
- Properly evaluate Fields and Wilson and pull the trigger

My general off-season plan would be:

- Trade Darnold for a #3 hopefully a #2
- In free agency sign a G (Thuney?), WR (Robinson/Godwin?) and Edge (Judon?)   
- In the draft:
  #1 - Fields or Wilson
  #1 - BPA CB or Edge
  #2 - BPA CB or Edge (whatever we don't pick with our second #1)
  #3 - BPA WR
  #3 - BPA OL
  #3 - BPA RB  

My 2 cents until I probably change my mind

I have no issue with this plan. I also really like Lance and think he should be in the conversation. And if you target Lance I think that allows you room to trade down a few spots (if you can swing a trade) and it makes more sense to keep Darnold around for another year if you can't get good value for him. Lance if raw and would need to sit for a year anyway. 

Anyway, thats my two cents. Target Lance, move down a few spots, if possible and take him, trade Darnold if you get good value, if not let Lance and Darnold battle it out in camp, assuming Darnold wins the job, give him another season and hope you get better value all while building a better team for Lance in 2022. 

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1 hour ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Do me a favor and go look at Watson’s stats over there in Houston. He’s battled through horrible olines and then they deal away his best weapon this year and continues to throw for 30 tds. 
How bout he just plays better?

There is no infrastructure on the team for any QB to succeed. So you draft another young prospect QB, then what?

What quality, proven success NFL coaches do you have in place to teach the new kid?

Do you have a winning culture to bring him into?

Who does hand he the ball off to? An almost 40 year old RB?

Who does he throw to, a few 3rd tier WRs that have never come close to 1,000-yard receiving years?

At this point the QB is the LEAST of the roster/team problems, the team is a total f-cking disaster, so if you can plug 3-5 major holes in one draft with A-grade talent while standing pat at QB with Darnold kept in place, that is a LEAP forward in my book.

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4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

that too 

there's a very real possibility Fields can't read a defense and Wilson spends his career on IR 

that's why they don't go top 5 

eventually they become value to pick but they aren't "franchise" prospects more like projects who you hope outperforms the draft slot 

i can't see douglas taking fields, just doesn't seem like his kind of guy.  maybe wilson, and maybe not at 2.  i think the decision to stay or trade out of 2 will be dictated more by how much he can get for the 2 pick, and less by how much he's in love with one of the qbs.  i think douglas wants picks.

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9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Sam Darnold in year 4 of his career and 23 years old is a better QB prospect than Wilson and Fields at 21 

it's a low bar but there it is 

people are looking at "Anyone but Sam" and noone bashed Sam more than me but these QBs you guys want to use the 2 pick on are not elite 

Trevor was Elite, Fair enough 

these other guys are more like mid-late 1st rounders than top 5 picks. 

reaching 10-15 slots on a QB when you don't even have the infrastructure around him to compete isn't such a hot strategy 

and JD with 4 years left on his deal or whatever doesn't need to be desperate about this evaluation 

This.

Everyone is too quick to pivot from Trevor to the next QB when there’s a consensus that a huge gap exists between the QB1 in this draft and everyone else. 

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8 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

4) Build the team

5) in 2022 start looking to draft a rookie QB to put behind a complete team.

this is most likely JD's plan too 

what NFL GM's try to do is get the team built then make a run at the SB with the QB on the rookie deal 

once that guy gets Matt Stafford money it's hard to load the team the same way 

besides this, the whole problem with the Trevor Lawrence "model" is that it assumes 1 player can overcome decades of institutional rot 

there is an outcome where the Jets got 1, TL flames out hard and JD is unemployed 

it was a path he would have had to gone down, based on the strength of TL as a prospect 

but it's super hard to expect this rookie to come in and change everything 

(and adding mercinaries like Joe Thuney/Allen Robinson to the mix still isn't enough) 

I've said there's no such thing as a multi year rebuild but there are super bowl windows and when you take the QB you are essentially opening the window 

they tried it with Sam and everyone blamed Sam for not being the savior but these aren't realistic expectations 

 

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1 minute ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

This.

Everyone is too quick to pivot from Trevor to the next QB when there’s a consensus that a huge gap exists between the QB1 in this draft and everyone else. 

There was a thread made in November in this forum saying fields was better than TL. 

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10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Sam Darnold in year 4 of his career and 23 years old is a better QB prospect than Wilson and Fields at 21 

it's a low bar but there it is 

people are looking at "Anyone but Sam" and noone bashed Sam more than me but these QBs you guys want to use the 2 pick on are not elite 

Trevor was Elite, Fair enough 

these other guys are more like mid-late 1st rounders than top 5 picks. 

reaching 10-15 slots on a QB when you don't even have the infrastructure around him to compete isn't such a hot strategy 

and JD with 4 years left on his deal or whatever doesn't need to be desperate about this evaluation 

Right. If JD doesn't love these QBs -if he rates them near where you do here- is it worth it to him to spend the #2 on one of them? How would that compare to moving down a few spots and adding a second round pick this year and another first next year? Or dropping 10-12 spots and collecting extra first rounders for the next couple of years, plus? 

There are a couple very sound, very logical options for JD other than just simply taking the QB. This team, that started 0-13 this year, still has plenty of holes to fill. 

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1 minute ago, QB1 said:

There was a thread made in November in this forum saying fields was better than TL. 

There’s only one guy that’s been hyped as a generational prospect for several years. 

Reasonable people can disagree, but there are also people on this site that want to keep Adam Gase... sooooo, ya know...

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3 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

There’s only one guy that’s been hyped as a generational prospect for several years. 

Reasonable people can disagree, but there are also people on this site that want to keep Adam Gase... sooooo, ya know...

Not arguing against TL, but Fields could be worthy of the 2nd pick 

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6 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

There’s only one guy that’s been hyped as a generational prospect for several years. 

Reasonable people can disagree, but there are also people on this site that want to keep Adam Gase... sooooo, ya know...

Other then Sar who is just trolling??

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1 minute ago, Savage69 said:

Other then Sar who is just trolling??

Is he? I hope so. But yea, point taken. 

5 minutes ago, QB1 said:

Not arguing against TL, but Fields could be worthy of the 2nd pick 

"Could be" is fine by me. But I prefer to take Sewell, or Chase if he blows up the combine. It's not about building for Sam, it's about putting a team in place that will allow whomever plays that position to have a fighting chance. 

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

they are going to take a QB 

the question is there a QB worth the 2 pick 

so far it's not clear

this MUST DRAFT QB plan of KRL and yours assumes these players are good or even decent

it often also assumes trade down is a great move (historically the team trading up gets the better player)_ 

there's alot to like (and dislike) about Fields and Wilson, more likely these are top 10-15 types not top 5 types

So here's the deal with that -

If you take the QB at 2 or 15.  If he hits you'll be quite happy you spent a second on him.

If he misses you're back to picking in the top 5 again in 4 years anyway.  Regardless of where you're taking him.

Pick the best QB in the draft and take him at 2.  QB is too important to mess around with.

Kinda like passing on Mahomes because Adams was the better "Value"

When you don't have a QB you draft your highest rated one and do everything you can to support him. 

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2 hours ago, PepPep said:

Ok. But in this scenario we just brought in Thuney and Robinson. I think if THAT is how FA goes you have to at least consider a CB or Edge player if the value is there. Just saying. But in general, I agree, you would want to add another O-lineman or weapon for your your QB. 

Even better, more to help you develop your QB - sign those two and draft offense with your top 3 picks.  You're not winning super bowl next year anyway.

Help turn the kid into a franchise guy but supporting him in any and every way you can.

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2 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

there’s a consensus that a huge gap exists between the QB1 in this draft and everyone else. 

look at the consensus' from 2018

best Qbs were NOT the top 3 though everybody and their aunt said the top 3 were defo the top 3....

at this point...  i admit that i hope TL busts like a mfer. i have nuthn against the guy whatsoever in any way.

its just that JN pumps up its own ideas so crazily and they are so bad so often....      it just will make all the tank posts and the wekass lamenting over "we LOST Trevor" even more disgusting than they already are.

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6 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

I just don't see that . Throwing at the combine proves nothing. Both have strong arms , its game situations to see how players react to different defenses which will probably be the determining factor between them. I also feel the interviews with these are more important than combine testing .

Hey, we agreee on something  :) 

IMO the interview process, and the white board is going to make the final decision.

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6 hours ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Yep. We finally have a chance to pair a rookie QB and new HC together from the start. Keep him in the same system from year 1 to 2. Just let him learn as much as he can. 
Let the veteran keep this team respectable and let it ride. You have a chance to actually develop a team the right away. No need to get cute. 

Rex and Sanchez ?

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6 hours ago, slimjasi said:

This is a solid plan. 

I get that some people are gun shy about trying again at another QB prospect after failing with Sam so miserably, but I think you just have to get over it. 

We aren't going to be a consistently good team until we get a QB in here who can really play. Keep drafting a QB until you have a QB.

Or until Dwayne Haskins shakes loose and becomes as a free-agent.

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