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The Jets will select Tackle Liam Eichenberg with the 23rd pick of the draft.


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1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Not so sure about that. If they want O-line, Beerfish is correct -- trade back first. If one of the first tier guys falls, of course, take him. But I think the Jets are going to be facing an edge choice that's enticing at 23. That will be JD's first dilemma. Which way to go? If they can trade back, the extra pick will be very useful.

I would prefer Jets take a value pick at OL or a WR playmaker if available at #23...or trade down too.

If not possible...

Hope Jets take edge guys like kwity Paye, Ojulari or Jaelan Phillips.  Though Phillips medical history probably makes him too risky. 

Adding another quality edge player in a 4-2-5 scheme, would make Saleh's front four pass rush an elite top 3 one.  And do more to help the secondary then a CB pick here would.  You can get a good enough corner in rounds 3-5.  

But I have a suspicion Jets could also target LB here.  Like a Micah Parsons or Zevan Collins. 

OL-receiver weapon-trade down or edge...would be my order of preferences.

Just three days away and we'll know. 

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1 minute ago, TheClashFan said:

If all the top OT prospects are gone, including Teven Jenkins, maybe trade down a bit from 23. After him, there's a cluster of early to mid 2nd round OT prospects to choose from.  If the Jets stay at 34, I'm hoping for Creed.

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8 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

or at 66

I don't think so.

If a team wanted a T in the last 2 FAs, what were the options?

If the Jets are not wild about Fant and his contract expires this year, what do they do?

Look at the teams that pick between 23 and 34.  Many of them need T.  

When Becton gets hurt and Fant needs to move to LT to prevent Wilson from getting killed, who plays RT?  Edoga?

This is a tough one, because I agree that the Eichenberg, Cosmi, etc. are not the 23rd best player in this draft.  From OT is a premium position, and it is hard to find in FA, or in recent drafts, the later rounds.  

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25 minutes ago, varjet said:

I don't think so.

If a team wanted a T in the last 2 FAs, what were the options?

If the Jets are not wild about Fant and his contract expires this year, what do they do?

Look at the teams that pick between 23 and 34.  Many of them need T.  

When Becton gets hurt and Fant needs to move to LT to prevent Wilson from getting killed, who plays RT?  Edoga?

This is a tough one, because I agree that the Eichenberg, Cosmi, etc. are not the 23rd best player in this draft.  From OT is a premium position, and it is hard to find in FA, or in recent drafts, the later rounds.  

This guy is like the 10th ranked tackle in the draft. Obviously T is a premium position. I didn't argue otherwise.

Would you take the 10th ranked QB at 23 or 34? Why not, it's the most important position? What happens if your starter gets injured? Are you comfortable with a backup starting?

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1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

You guys are on the right track with Eichenberg and Cosmi, only it will be at 34 or 68 IMO.   There’s better value at OT in the 2nd and 3rd rounds than at pick 23.   

It would be Eichenberg or Radunz before Cosmi IMO.

Of all the OTs I think the Jets find a way to land either Jenkins, Eichenberg or Radunz.  Hainsey from ND should be on the radar too, but he'd move inside.

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1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Not so sure about that. If they want O-line, Beerfish is correct -- trade back first. If one of the first tier guys falls, of course, take him. But I think the Jets are going to be facing an edge choice that's enticing at 23. That will be JD's first dilemma. Which way to go? If they can trade back, the extra pick will be very useful.

I heard Hogan say that they will probably move around a bit due to having so many picks and not having space for all of them on the team. They will probably package some later round picks to move up in the 3 or 4th rounds.

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2 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

I heard Hogan say that they will probably move around a bit due to having so many picks and not having space for all of them on the team. They will probably package some later round picks to move up in the 3 or 4th rounds.

I've seen our roster. There's plenty of room.

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2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

The Jets are going to trade back and then take Creed Humphrey.

No one knows until we can look back in hindsight, but isn't Humphrey generally expected to still be on the board at 34? The latest Kiper/McShay mock (taking it for what it's worth) has him going to the Rams at 57. 

Granted they're all just guesses, but I'm not seeing any mock drafts that solidly have him going in round 1. What I'm seeing is just one site (I forget which) who lists him as an alternative-possibility selection (along with a couple other prospects). Every year there are also surprise picks towards the end of round 1, because a team had a specific need (those teams have fewer than we do) and they don't pick again until the late-50s or later.

This thread itself highlights an OL prospect that some like where we pick just after #20, others will have closer to #40, or still others have him around #60. This class seems to have its the few top OL guys - all 3 expected to be long gone before #23 - and then there's kinda everyone else: upwards of like 10 different prospects (in very subjective order) in the next tier. 

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2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

This guy is like the 10th ranked tackle in the draft. Obviously T is a premium position. I didn't argue otherwise.

Would you take the 10th ranked QB at 23 or 34? Why not, it's the most important position? What happens if your starter gets injured? Are you comfortable with a backup starting?

McGinn has Eichenberg the 5th T, after Sewell, Slater, Darrisaw and Jenkins.  I think that is about right.

Eichenberg could be a reach at 23, but he will not be there at 34.  

It is really a question of whether JD will roll with Fant for a year or more and take BPA at 23 and 34 and find a G at 66 or later.  

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16 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No one knows until we can look back in hindsight, but isn't Humphrey generally expected to still be on the board at 34? The latest Kiper/McShay mock (taking it for what it's worth) has him going to the Rams at 57. 

Granted they're all just guesses, but I'm not seeing any mock drafts that solidly have him going in round 1. What I'm seeing is just one site (I forget which) who lists him as an alternative-possibility selection (along with a couple other prospects). Every year there are also surprise picks towards the end of round 1, because a team had a specific need (those teams have fewer than we do) and they don't pick again until the late-50s or later.

This thread itself highlights an OL prospect that some like where we pick just after #20, others will have closer to #40, or still others have him around #60. This class seems to have its the few top OL guys - all 3 expected to be long gone before #23 - and then there's kinda everyone else: upwards of like 10 different prospects (in very subjective order) in the next tier. 

Thus the trade down aspect, I've seen Humphrey mocked late 1sr round to further back as you state.

If we can trade down to say late 1st round pick the top Center, then have 34 and also and asset, probably another 3rd rounder to boot.

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21 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Thus the trade down aspect, I've seen Humphrey mocked late 1sr round to further back as you state.

If we can trade down to say late 1st round pick the top Center, then have 34 and also and asset, probably another 3rd rounder to boot.

Kelly, Bradbury, Ruiz, Price were all mocked to go lower than where they were drafted.

And guys like Frederick, Biadasz and others end up getting drafted lower and teams regret it.

A Center with the right size and mobility who can step in and start should get drafted in the first round.  

The Packers lost their Center.  I can see Creed going there.  

The fact that JD spent real money on McGovern and Fant could prevent the Jets from drafting OL higher than they should.  

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15 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Thus the trade down aspect, I've seen Humphrey mocked late 1sr round to further back as you state.

If we can trade down to say late 1st round pick the top Center, then have 34 and also and asset, probably another 3rd rounder to boot.

Could be, but too early to decide yet. Depends on whether - at another position - another prospect sitting there at 23 is worth more than #34 plus a 3rd pick in round 3. 

I know this team needs help but at some point, honestly, they'd be drafting too many players for one class. Competition is one thing; there's also a point where we're wasting picks since there's room for only so many, and there's no chance Saleh's starting that many rookies together on the same side of the ball. Plus with this many higher-potential selections (lots of picks on days 1-2) it may be better to see what they've got after this year before doubling up on that position with a selection they didn't need (a pick - or two, or three - that should've been used in another way).

If he does trade down from #23 (very possible, I agree), and by the end of day two they've already taken 6 players, then on day 3 I'd expect at least one more trade for a pick a round higher the following year. And then again at least once next year again, for the same reason, to line up at least one more day-2 pick in 2023. Douglas still has a long contract ahead.

I'd rather he does that, and/or trades a 3rd with another 3rd or our 4th to move back up into round 2 for a better prospect. I'm not aware this is the best and deepest draft class in history, where we should be sinking 10 picks into it (6 of them by the end of day 2), and the one thing we're not lacking is having enough draft picks. 

I'm ok with overloading picks on a position of desperation, but do that with mid & late round picks since they're more likely to be nothings anyway, and if you really hit on 1 for 3 there it's still a success.

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6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Could be, but too early to decide yet. Depends on whether - at another position - another prospect sitting there at 23 is worth more than #34 plus a 3rd pick in round 3. 

I know this team needs help but at some point, honestly, they'd be drafting too many players for one class. Competition is one thing; there's also a point where we're wasting picks since there's room for only so many, and there's no chance Saleh's starting that many rookies together on the same side of the ball. Plus with this many higher-potential selections (lots of picks on days 1-2) it may be better to see what they've got after this year before doubling up on that position with a selection they didn't need (a pick - or two, or three - that should've been used in another way).

If he does trade down from #23 (very possible, I agree), and by the end of day two they've already taken 6 players, then on day 3 I'd expect at least one more trade for a pick a round higher the following year. And then again at least once next year again, for the same reason, to line up at least one more day-2 pick in 2023. Douglas still has a long contract ahead.

I'd rather he does that, and/or trades a 3rd with another 3rd or our 4th to move back up into round 2 for a better prospect. I'm not aware this is the best and deepest draft class in history, where we should be sinking 10 picks into it (6 of them by the end of day 2), and the one thing we're not lacking is having enough draft picks. 

I'm ok with overloading picks on a position of desperation, but do that with mid & late round picks since they're more likely to be nothings anyway, and if you really hit on 1 for 3 there it's still a success.

I'm not sure I get your point, other than your recent posts suggest you do not at all value making  great oline and feel a as o so one will be fine.

The higher you rate and pick players the better they should be right?

If the Jets pick oline at 23 and 34 they can do whatever the hell they want with the other 8 picks.

Once again, if there is one position group to err on the side of over building it is the oline.  We are picking a nww young Qb and the last one we had was a dumpster in good part due to terrible oline play.

I won;t beef too much if the jets went CB at 23 I suppose as long as they go oline at 34 and one of the 3rd rounders.

If we pick a friggin linebacker or pass rusher at 23 Douglas is a weak moron.

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7 hours ago, derp said:

If you’d like to try to distract from being wrong about Newsome in a way thats completely hypocritical when compared to your complaints about the quarterback they’re going to draft (and I’m not a fan of taking a QB at 2 so if you think that dig at Wilson would bother me, it doesn’t) - by all means.

I’m not a Newsome guy but there’s definitely a dynamic with this new regime. They like players regardless of injury issues

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3 hours ago, varjet said:

McGinn has Eichenberg the 5th T, after Sewell, Slater, Darrisaw and Jenkins.  I think that is about right.

Eichenberg could be a reach at 23, but he will not be there at 34.  

It is really a question of whether JD will roll with Fant for a year or more and take BPA at 23 and 34 and find a G at 66 or later.  

If Jenkins isn’t there at 23 just wait for Little in round 3

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4 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I’m not a Newsome guy but there’s definitely a dynamic with this new regime. They like players regardless of injury issues

The first two picks got hurt and missed time their rookie year during a pandemic season...but those guys hadn’t had missed time that consistently with injuries in college. Hell Mims played with a broken hand - that’s very different than Newsome not playing through nagging stuff.

Later they took discounts on I think two guys who had injuries - one of whom was healthy and the other continued to be banged up.

Certainly last year wasn’t good health wise but there wasn’t much on draft day besides Zuniga to point in that direction.

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7 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

I've seen our roster. There's plenty of room.

I think the young players from last year may end up being solid starters with a new coaching staff. You can't discard Clark, Davis and Zuniga. They were all players without a real training camp, preseason, etc. 

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9 hours ago, Alka said:

Remember that name.  He played against elite competition and didn't allow a sack in 2 years.  He will be perfect to be moved to right guard for this year, and possibly go to right tackle next year if Fant doesn't come back.

I believe that the upper echelon offensive linemen will be gone by 23, and if we don't select Eichenberg at #23, he won't make it until #34.

Other players at other positions will entice the Jets, but if they go on what they desperately need, then Eichenberg is the right pick.

Fine by me, and top rated WR lineman or CB is great!

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4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I'm not sure I get your point, other than your recent posts suggest you do not at all value making  great oline and feel a as o so one will be fine.

The higher you rate and pick players the better they should be right?

If the Jets pick oline at 23 and 34 they can do whatever the hell they want with the other 8 picks.

Once again, if there is one position group to err on the side of over building it is the oline.  We are picking a nww young Qb and the last one we had was a dumpster in good part due to terrible oline play.

I won;t beef too much if the jets went CB at 23 I suppose as long as they go oline at 34 and one of the 3rd rounders.

If we pick a friggin linebacker or pass rusher at 23 Douglas is a weak moron.

Not necessarily. Sometimes a team can just take someone higher for the sake of taking him higher. Impossible to predict exactly, but Humphrey seems to be a good example. There's every indication he'll still be there at 34 (potentially still there at 44 and maybe even 54). Taking him at 23 or 26 doesn't therefore make him a better prospect, nor any wiser use of those picks. Quite the opposite. 

If the Jets were staring at pick #12 as their 2nd selection and one of the top 2 tackles is right there and then we passed on him, then you could make the argument that a lower pick is likely to equal a lesser prospect. 

In this draft class there's no clear-cut ranking from one prospect to the next (particularly after the first few who aren't slipping to 23 anyway). If one of them does, somehow, sure absolutely grab him & don't look back. I'm not interested in taking the 40th-best player in the draft at #23 just so we can say we drafted OL with our second pick.

The next pick is still pretty high, and is likely to yield the same-caliber iOL prospect we'd get at 23 (never mind after trading down a little from 23, as you desire). It's a completely different philosophy from Maccagnan - already without a 2nd round pick after trading up to #3 - passing on OL in round 3 (Baltimore took Orlando Brown after Maccagnan took Shepherd); then again passed on OL in round 4; and so on for the rest of the draft outright. The following year he again didn't look to the OL until the end of round 3, where he took Edoga whom no one even feels confident in as a swing tackle in his 4th season.

Apples & oranges.

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17 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I'm not sure I get your point, other than your recent posts suggest you do not at all value making  great oline and feel a as o so one will be fine.

The higher you rate and pick players the better they should be right?

If the Jets pick oline at 23 and 34 they can do whatever the hell they want with the other 8 picks.

Once again, if there is one position group to err on the side of over building it is the oline.  We are picking a nww young Qb and the last one we had was a dumpster in good part due to terrible oline play.

I won;t beef too much if the jets went CB at 23 I suppose as long as they go oline at 34 and one of the 3rd rounders.

If we pick a friggin linebacker or pass rusher at 23 Douglas is a weak moron.

No one here doesn't value the offensive line, some of us tend to -IMHO- overvalue it. There's a point where it's overkill, and taking OL at both #23 & #34 would be exactly that. I expect that the Jets are looking for one starter on the OL from this draft. Becton-McGovern-Fant are basically locked in, one highly regarded rookie at one of the guard spots, and then all the other offensive linemen on the team are battling it out for the other OG spot. That should result in a decent OL. 

They're taking the QB at #2, he's going to start. If/when they grab that one OL high, he'll start. Two rookie starters on the offensive side of the ball on opening day is plenty, especially when the team will be employing a new offense with a new zone blocking scheme. Some veteran presence will be welcome. 

The middle rounds of the draft produce all pro quality IOL, RBs, and TEs every year. Joe Douglas has five picks in rounds 3-5, too. Plenty of opportunity to grab those guys there. I expect (at least) two OL from this draft, they don't need to be his second two picks. 

Your last line is one you repeat often, and I could not disagree with it more. He's charged with building a complete football team, not just a complete OL. Anyone who understands the importance of the OL should be able to also understand the importance of a pass rush, but that often seems to get lost around here. The defense is also undergoing a conversion from a read & react, blitzing 3-4 to a 4-3 system dependent upon a dominant front four. If Joe Douglas were to somehow hit on a franchise QB at #2 and a stud pass rusher at #23, this draft would be heralded as one of the all-time great drafts regardless of what he did with all his other picks. As I stated above, the team isn't going to be looking to start three rookies on offense. If his BAP at one of those picks is Edge/CB/LB, that player will likely be a starter on defense. 

The roster isn't going to be complete after this draft. The good news is that he has four picks in the first two rounds next year to put the finishing touches on it. 

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27 minutes ago, slats said:

No one here doesn't value the offensive line, some of us tend to -IMHO- overvalue it. There's a point where it's overkill, and taking OL at both #23 & #34 would be exactly that. I expect that the Jets are looking for one starter on the OL from this draft. Becton-McGovern-Fant are basically locked in, one highly regarded rookie at one of the guard spots, and then all the other offensive linemen on the team are battling it out for the other OG spot. That should result in a decent OL. 

They're taking the QB at #2, he's going to start. If/when they grab that one OL high, he'll start. Two rookie starters on the offensive side of the ball on opening day is plenty, especially when the team will be employing a new offense with a new zone blocking scheme. Some veteran presence will be welcome. 

The middle rounds of the draft produce all pro quality IOL, RBs, and TEs every year. Joe Douglas has five picks in rounds 3-5, too. Plenty of opportunity to grab those guys there. I expect (at least) two OL from this draft, they don't need to be his second two picks. 

Your last line is one you repeat often, and I could not disagree with it more. He's charged with building a complete football team, not just a complete OL. Anyone who understands the importance of the OL should be able to also understand the importance of a pass rush, but that often seems to get lost around here. The defense is also undergoing a conversion from a read & react, blitzing 3-4 to a 4-3 system dependent upon a dominant front four. If Joe Douglas were to somehow hit on a franchise QB at #2 and a stud pass rusher at #23, this draft would be heralded as one of the all-time great drafts regardless of what he did with all his other picks. As I stated above, the team isn't going to be looking to start three rookies on offense. If his BAP at one of those picks is Edge/CB/LB, that player will likely be a starter on defense. 

The roster isn't going to be complete after this draft. The good news is that he has four picks in the first two rounds next year to put the finishing touches on it. 

OVERvalue it?

We have not had a really good oline in years and have had garbage olines for year.

The Jets have spent fewer resources in the  last 10-15 years on oline than nay other team in the league.

The Jets just spent the majority of their FA dollars on the defene as they always do and did nothing to upgrade the oline, nothing.

Take your line of thinking and we never draft Mangold.  I mean you cannot spend two high picks on the oline, outrageous!

The you can get all pros lower down theory for oline is the same as you can get all pros lower down at any position, you have to get very lucky and if you look at all the picks this team has used below round one on oline since the 2006 draft most have been terrible and few few have been jags.

No you wont change my mind on this one.

- Oline has been totally neglected for 15 years.

- Young QB success is highly dependant on a really good oline.

- We just spent big FA dollars pass rushers, LB, WR's

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23 minutes ago, slats said:

No one here doesn't value the offensive line, some of us tend to -IMHO- overvalue it. There's a point where it's overkill, and taking OL at both #23 & #34 would be exactly that. I expect that the Jets are looking for one starter on the OL from this draft. Becton-McGovern-Fant are basically locked in, one highly regarded rookie at one of the guard spots, and then all the other offensive linemen on the team are battling it out for the other OG spot. That should result in a decent OL. 

They're taking the QB at #2, he's going to start. If/when they grab that one OL high, he'll start. Two rookie starters on the offensive side of the ball on opening day is plenty, especially when the team will be employing a new offense with a new zone blocking scheme. Some veteran presence will be welcome. 

The middle rounds of the draft produce all pro quality IOL, RBs, and TEs every year. Joe Douglas has five picks in rounds 3-5, too. Plenty of opportunity to grab those guys there. I expect (at least) two OL from this draft, they don't need to be his second two picks. 

Your last line is one you repeat often, and I could not disagree with it more. He's charged with building a complete football team, not just a complete OL. Anyone who understands the importance of the OL should be able to also understand the importance of a pass rush, but that often seems to get lost around here. The defense is also undergoing a conversion from a read & react, blitzing 3-4 to a 4-3 system dependent upon a dominant front four. If Joe Douglas were to somehow hit on a franchise QB at #2 and a stud pass rusher at #23, this draft would be heralded as one of the all-time great drafts regardless of what he did with all his other picks. As I stated above, the team isn't going to be looking to start three rookies on offense. If his BAP at one of those picks is Edge/CB/LB, that player will likely be a starter on defense. 

The roster isn't going to be complete after this draft. The good news is that he has four picks in the first two rounds next year to put the finishing touches on it. 

Very good post.  I don't agree regarding the urgency and volume of drafting OL, but I get the points you make and there is logic there.  I've been suffering from Jets OL PTSD syndrome for some time now, and the draft is like a medical dispensary with the cure.

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3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

OVERvalue it?

We have not had a really good oline in years and have had garbage olines for year.

The Jets have spent fewer resources in the  last 10-15 years on oline than nay other team in the league.

The Jets just spent the majority of their FA dollars on the defene as they always do and did nothing to upgrade the oline, nothing.

Take your line of thinking and we never draft Mangold.  I mean you cannot spend two high picks on the oline, outrageous!

The you can get all pros lower done theory for oline is the same as you can get all pros lower down at any position, you have to get very lucky and if you look at all the picks this team has used below round one on oline since the 2006 draft most have been terrible and few few have been jags.

No you wont change my mind on this one.

- Oline has been totally neglected for 15 years.

- Young QB success is highly dependant on a really good oline.

- We just spent big FA dollars pass rushers, LB, WR's

The Jets spent a first rounder at LT last year, and I'm proposing that they spend another one (or a very high second) on an IOL this year. That's Brick-Mangold, just a year apart. So clearly my line of thinking does not go against that. 

And yes, the fans here overvalue the OL. It's like it's the only unit on the team for some people. I get that it was ignored for too long, but Joe Douglas used two picks on it last year and brought in a number of free agents, including a couple more expensive ones. The OL has not been ignored since he arrived, and it won't be ignored in this draft. I expect at least two. With all that activity, it's a little hard to say it's been ignored for 15 years when it hasn't been the last two. 

The all pros later theory works for some positions better than others. It doesn't work so great for the more premium positions; QB, Edge, CB, WR. It works great for the lower valued positions such as RB, TE, S, G/C, though.  

Taking OL at both #23 and #34 is taking a player very high who you expect to ride the bench. I'd rather use one of those picks on a player who's going to start right away. Let's see what the coaches and the scheme they're bringing to the team does for the OL. I think a guy like Fant, a converted TE, will do much better in the zone scheme. That's the approach I expect them to take. They probably like the guys they've got better than you do, and see better fits for them in this system than you see. Offensive lines are all about how they work together, not just the individual parts. That's why/how many great OLs include late picks/UDFAs/cast-offs. I expect them to trust the system rather than overdraft the position, because that's the smart thing to do. 

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21 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

It would be Eichenberg or Radunz before Cosmi IMO.

Of all the OTs I think the Jets find a way to land either Jenkins, Eichenberg or Radunz.  Hainsey from ND should be on the radar too, but he'd move inside.

You may be correct.  I just think that there will be a really good Edge prospect sitting at 23 and some decent OTs still on the board and likely available at 34.  
 

I could see a scenario like this play out:

1. Zach Wilson

23. Kwitty Paye

34. Samuel Cosmi 

 

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16 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

I think the young players from last year may end up being solid starters with a new coaching staff. You can't discard Clark, Davis and Zuniga. They were all players without a real training camp, preseason, etc. 

Davis has the kind of body type that gets injured with big hits , his fat percentages look very low, all twitchy muscle and bone, not much shock absorber or much weight. 6’1, 201 SS? 

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2 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

You may be correct.  I just think that there will be a really good Edge prospect sitting at 23 and some decent OTs still on the board and likely available at 34.  
 

I could see a scenario like this play out:

1. Zach Wilson

23. Kwitty Paye

34. Samuel Cosmi 

 

I'd have no problem with that but would prefer a different OT at #34.  But the approach is 100% spot on because after the first few OTs it's largely a grab bag of similar guys.... and we're looking for a RT or RG/RT.   IMO there are no fewer than 8 guys who could fit at RT for the Jets and probably deserve to be taken prior to Round 3.

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