Joe D getting a raw deal

[viffer]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Joe Douglas has done more wrong than right since he got here, so botching the most important contract of his career is no surprise.

SAR I

Boy, you're as right about JD as you were about Gase...

JD was holding out for offset language, which makes a lot of sense from a team point of view. The signing bonus payment was his bargaining chip. The Jets have paid the signing bonuses up front before, so there is no reason to believe they wouldn't do so for Wilson. By holding out for both they were able to "compromise." They got the offset language they wanted and only gave up the signing bonus payment they were probably always willing to give up.

It's amazing how many people on this board who have never negotiated anything are experts on negotiating tactics.

The Jets got what they wanted, and missed having their hopeful FQB for two shorts/no pads practices.

[viffer]

2 hours ago, AFJF said:

It has now been reported by multiple outlets that it's about offsets (which is idiotic) as well as the Jets wanting Wilson to defer his bonus money.  Several teams pay out their top picks within 30 days of signing.  The Jets want Zach to take part of it now and part of it next year.  It's literally his money.  Imagine  you doing a job where you earn 10K and your boss says he'd like you to take 5K today and 5K 8 months down the road so that he can hang on to your cash for you.

No, it's not his money until he earns it.

And you don't earn 10k the day you agree to a job. Maybe in your job you get 3 years future salary the day you agree to the job, but for the rest of the world we get paid when we earn it, i.e., weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly. NOT up front.

[flgreen]

23 minutes ago, AFJF said:

How insane would the Jets have to be to allow a holdout of any length to occur over a highly unlikely hypothetical loss of $2-3 million dollars four years from now?

 

They wanted to keep Wilson's money for an extra year and they didn't get to. 

 

Glad the kid won.

29 or 30 other teams in the NFL also do it.   

Jets have probably had this on the table since camp started.  Just like with the Darnold contract precedent.  Which you choose to ignore

Wilson won nothing.  This is what the Jets have been doing for 5 years.  Same contract Darnold got.  

I know you are going to continue to push your agenda in spite of the facts so, Salut

[Bowles Movement]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Joe Douglas has done more wrong than right since he got here, so botching the most important contract of his career is no surprise.

SAR I

Are you trying to replace Fidelio as the number one forum voice of negativity?

[AFJF]

26 minutes ago, flgreen said:

29 or 30 other teams in the NFL also do it.   

Jets have probably had this on the table since camp started.  Just like with the Darnold contract precedent.  Which you choose to ignore

Wilson won nothing.  This is what the Jets have been doing for 5 years.  Same contract Darnold got.  

I know you are going to continue to push your agenda in spite of the facts so, Salut

The fact is that the Jets wanted to keep some of Wilson's money.  In the end, they didn't get it.

For their trouble, they gave themselves about a 1% chance of saving a couple million dollars in 2026.  Phew.

[SackExchangeNYJ]

50 minutes ago, AFJF said:

How insane would the Jets have to be to allow a holdout of any length to occur over a highly unlikely hypothetical loss of $2-3 million dollars four years from now?

 

They wanted to keep Wilson's money for an extra year and they didn't get to. 

 

Glad the kid won.

I don't think this was the case. I think the agent wanted to take a stand on the offsets. The deferred payment business was all just bluster, a bargaining position.

In the end, the agent did not get the offsets out of the deal. But he saves face by being able to say he got all the guaranteed money up front.

[AFJF]

31 minutes ago, viffer said:

No, it's not his money until he earns it.

And you don't earn 10k the day you agree to a job. Maybe in your job you get 3 years future salary the day you agree to the job, but for the rest of the world we get paid when we earn it, i.e., weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly. NOT up front.

Take a look in to the rookie wage scale.  Contracts aren't the way they were back in the days of Sam Bradford.  Wilson's money was set aside the second he was drafted.  It just came down to whether or not the Jets would give it to him this month or next year.  Wilson wanted his money this month but the Jets wanted to hold some of it back.  I'm glad the kid won.

[AFJF]

2 minutes ago, SackExchangeNYJ said:

I don't think this was the case. I think the agent wanted to take a stand on the offsets. The deferred payment business was all just bluster, a bargaining position.

In the end, the agent did not get the offsets out of the deal. But he saves face by being able to say he got all the guaranteed money up front.

The offsets are idiotic posturing for the agent to pretend he's doing something for the player.  In the end, it will not matter one bit to either party.  Wilson isn't getting cut before his deal ends and they aren't declining his fifth-year option.  If they do, nobody is paying him more than a million or two to come in as a first round bust camp body.  That's the money the billionaire owners will save themselves and what they looked like buffoons over.

I'm glad the kid got his money and the team gets to pretend they won something.

[SackExchangeNYJ]

Just now, AFJF said:

The offsets are idiotic posturing for the agent to pretend he's doing something for the player.  In the end, it will not matter one bit to either party.  Wilson isn't getting cut before his deal ends and they aren't declining his fifth-year option.  If they do, nobody is paying him more than a million or two to come in as a first round bust camp body.  That's the money the billionaire owners will save themselves and what they looked like buffoons over.

I'm glad the kid got his money and the team gets to pretend they won something.

The offsets may seem idiotic, but to some agents, it's about cracking a hard line taken by organizations. This wasn't for Wilson's sake. It was so the agent can say to future potential clients that he got the Jets to crack on offsets, which means if he represents them, he can make teams crack and allow the client to double-dip if they get cut. 

There is a reason the Jets have 29 other teams that negotiate offsets into their contracts. It's the same reason agents are trying to get them out of deals.

The bigger question is why he took such a hard line on the Jets and offsets, when he had no problem getting Burrow to sign a deal with offsets. 

[kthisguy]

This this tweet has any truth to it then it is well deserved heat on the Jets.

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, SackExchangeNYJ said:

What result? That he missed two practices in shorts?

My comment was made before he signed.  Yes it is unacceptable that a guy you have drafted 2 months ago is not signed before camp. 

It is unacceptable for a rookie to miss any camp time at all.  As I said blame whoever you like no excuse for this stuff not being ironed out until time is being missed.

[AFJF]

Just now, SackExchangeNYJ said:

The offsets may seem idiotic, but to some agents, it's about cracking a hard line taken by organizations. This wasn't for Wilson's sake. It was so the agent can say to future potential clients that he got the Jets to crack on offsets, which means if he represents them, he can make teams crack and allow the client to double-dip if they get cut. 

There is a reason the Jets have 29 other teams that negotiate offsets into their contracts. It's the same reason agents are trying to get them out of deals.

The bigger question is why he took such a hard line on the Jets and offsets, when he had no problem getting Burrow to sign a deal with offsets. 

Right, which is why it's dumb for teams to allow it to halt any progress even a little bit.  They should've blown past the posturing and given the kid his money instead of being the only team in the NFL that couldn't get the job done.

Either way, he's under contract, he got what he deserved, and the Jets can also claim a win no matter how meaningless it may be.

[AFJF]

3 minutes ago, kthisguy said:

This this tweet has any truth to it then it is well deserved heat on the Jets.
 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

 

D'oh...read that wrong.

Just glad it's done.

Edited July 29, 2021 by AFJF

[varjet]

In the next CBA this offset thing should get standardized.  

The teams and players can agree whether the player gets a windfall if they are cut early and can get paid 2x.

Otherwise, in the context of these large contracts, the rookie is signed for alot of money.  If they happen to get cut in a few years, do they get to make more money?  Maybe or maybe not, but they should decide and stop arguing about it.

For this contract, it was most important that Wilson started practicing.  I would not expect any more issues here for 4 or so years.  

Let's who the Jets sign long-term, starting with QW.  

[kthisguy]

Sorry double post

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, kthisguy said:

This this tweet has any truth to it then it is well deserved heat on the Jets.
 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

 

Yes.  If this is true it's a very bad look for the Jets.  Again, no real damage done but it certainly does tell me the people in charge are lacking basic awareness.

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, varjet said:

In the next CBA this offset thing should get standardized.  

The teams and players can agree whether the player gets a windfall if they are cut early and can get paid 2x.

Otherwise, in the context of these large contracts, the rookie is signed for alot of money.  If they happen to get cut in a few years, do they get to make more money?  Maybe or maybe not, but they should decide and stop arguing about it.

For this contract, it was most important that Wilson started practicing.  I would not expect any more issues here for 4 or so years.  

Let's who the Jets sign long-term, starting with QW.  

Agents will find something to fight over...otherwise they serve no purpose for the first 4 years of any player.

[SackExchangeNYJ]

5 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Right, which is why it's dumb for teams to allow it to halt any progress even a little bit.  They should've blown past the posturing and given the kid his money instead of being the only team in the NFL that couldn't get the job done.

Either way, he's under contract, he got what he deserved, and the Jets can also claim a win no matter how meaningless it may be.

They had to let the negotiation progress to where the agent saw getting the money upfront as winning, or at least saving face enough for him to give in on offsets. This was a two-way street.

If there is any question, it is why negotiations were held off until so recently. My sense is that part of this was because the only real leverage the agent has is in holding out. 

[NYJ1]

4 hours ago, AFJF said:

Twitter, FB and the forums trashing JD for not giving Zach his money but let's be real.  This isn't Joe D.  It's not his money.  He gains not one single thing by having Zach wait longer for some of his cash.  The only people who benefit from holding money back would be the Johnsons.

Listening to Chris Simms podcast and he just nailed it.  Said that to claim Joe D is insisting on holding money back makes no sense and he's not buying it.  He shouldn't be and neither should you.

As the old saying goes, "follow the money".  Johnson's can collect a year's worth of interest on $15-20 million if Zach agrees to let them hold his money for them.

Imagine believing the GM is like "Well, I know we took you second overall and don't have a QB, but I'd rather you stay at home so Woody and Chris can make a few extra bucks".  If Joe D had the power to do so he'd give Zach the money yesterday.
 

This doesn't make any sense to me? The only reason why Zach isn't in camp right is because of the a$$hole agent he hired? Money grubbing over very unimportant details. The Johnson's should have every right to withhold money i f Zach doesn't fullfil his contract. If he turns out to be Ryan Leaf the sequel, Woody and Chris should have every right to go after portions of the contract left unfulfilled.....

[doitny]

21 minutes ago, AFJF said:

The offsets are idiotic posturing for the agent to pretend he's doing something for the player.  In the end, it will not matter one bit to either party.  Wilson isn't getting cut before his deal ends and they aren't declining his fifth-year option.  If they do, nobody is paying him more than a million or two to come in as a first round bust camp body.  That's the money the billionaire owners will save themselves and what they looked like buffoons over.

I'm glad the kid got his money and the team gets to pretend they won something.

he was going to get his money anyway. 

his signing bonus is 22.9 m. so the Jets wanted to pay 16.9 this year and 6 mil next year. whats the big deal? does he really need more than 16 mil right now? its not like he will lose that 6 mil it he did it that way. and it would have been better for Zach tax wise too. pay more taxes getting one lump sum. 

no this was all about the agent and offset money. 

[flgreen]

11 minutes ago, varjet said:

In the next CBA this offset thing should get standardized.  

 

It will.

That's exactly why 30 teams insist on the off set.  It will be a bone they throw to the union to get something back that really matters to them.

Just like with the players not being allowed to talk to coaches, or be in the building in the off season except for OTA's. 

Owners don't care about that, but the vets do.  A lot of young players would work in the building all off season and take their jobs.  For coaches trying to break in new QB's it's nightmare.

Yep, it will be gone next CBA, but maybe the owners will get $100,000 fines a day  for hold outs instead of the $40,000 a day fine now.

This is not an idiotic item as some people keep on pushing, it's important to the owners as trade value. 

[flgreen]

23 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Agents will find something to fight over...otherwise they serve no purpose for the first 4 years of any player.

In all honesty, if I were a 1st round draft pick (yeah right  ) I wouldn't have an agent for the first contract and save the 7.5% (that's a lot of money) .  For the 2nd contract I sure would want a greedy dick on my side though.   

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, viffer said:

JD was holding out for offset language, which makes a lot of sense from a team point of view. The signing bonus payment was his bargaining chip. The Jets have paid the signing bonuses up front before, so there is no reason to believe they wouldn't do so for Wilson. By holding out for both they were able to "compromise." They got the offset language they wanted and only gave up the signing bonus payment they were probably always willing to give up.

It's amazing how many people on this board who have never negotiated anything are experts on negotiating tactics.

You have no idea what happened.  For all we know the Jets lost this negotiation.  For all we know Douglas might not have wanted to pay the bonus upfront, played hardball, and Woody got pissed and told him to just get it done already.

Either way, its great that we have Zach onboard.  Now he can focus on the objective-  getting a minimum of 8 wins to validate that Joe Douglas is actually a decent GM.

SAR I

[kthisguy]

he was going to get his money anyway. 
his signing bonus is 22.9 m. so the Jets wanted to pay 16.9 this year and 6 mil next year. whats the big deal? does he really need more than 16 mil right now? its not like he will lose that 6 mil it he did it that way. and it would have been better for Zach tax wise too. pay more taxes getting one lump sum. 
no this was all about the agent and offset money. 

There is actually no tax benefit as his base salary puts him into the top bracket. He will likely realize the same tax Payment if he split the bonus over two tax years. He would however lose the time value of the $6million. A guy with a billionaire uncle probably has some wise investing opportunities for Zach.

If the hold up was holding 1/3 of the bonus from the number 2 pick (something that has probably not been done) it is not a great look.


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[Chrebetfan80]

Everyone is over reactionary.. JD is working on a lot of moves.. Maybe too many at once even.   

People will pan him for not having Zach signed until today, but will praise him for his next big move.  

This is what being a GM in the NFL is about.  Even the best GM's don't crush every move, they just don't make the BIG mistakes.  2 years on the job and JD has this team looking like its on the upswing, to me thats a pretty darn good job so far. 

 

[More Cowbell]

4 hours ago, viffer said:

Boy, you're as right about JD as you were about Gase...

JD was holding out for offset language, which makes a lot of sense from a team point of view. The signing bonus payment was his bargaining chip. The Jets have paid the signing bonuses up front before, so there is no reason to believe they wouldn't do so for Wilson. By holding out for both they were able to "compromise." They got the offset language they wanted and only gave up the signing bonus payment they were probably always willing to give up.

It's amazing how many people on this board who have never negotiated anything are experts on negotiating tactics.

The Jets got what they wanted, and missed having their hopeful FQB for two shorts/no pads practices.

The offset only means anything if they cut him which would be insane and probably end JD's career

[kthisguy]

Everyone is over reactionary.. JD is working on a lot of moves.. Maybe too many at once even.   
People will pan him for not having Zach signed until today, but will praise him for his next big move.  
This is what being a GM in the NFL is about.  Even the best GM's don't crush every move, they just don't make the BIG mistakes.  2 years on the job and JD has this team looking like its on the upswing, to me thats a pretty darn good job so far. 
 

I like JD as a GM but is still new in the job. Yes, GMs have a lot of balls in the air. It becomes about prioritizing those balls. A NFL team without a starting QB signed on the roster and you draft a QB #2.

That is your first and only priority. If the reports are true that he did not start negotiations until last week and then asked for 30% of the signing bonus to be delayed a year (something that is not a common occurrence for a top three pick) is a rookie mistake (or ownership mandate). I say this as someone who likes his draft picks and understand his FA signings as they are logical. I do think he needs to get better in contract negotiations for current and high draft picks. (I hope the only high draft we get going forward is the Seahawk pick next year)



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[SAR I]

52 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

2 years on the job and JD has this team looking like its on the upswing, to me thats a pretty darn good job so far. 

That’s nothing but optics.   Douglas’ primary accomplishment has been taking a 7 win team with a few NFL pro bowlers into a 2 win nosedive with no one brought in to replace them.  

This is a make or break season for this GM in this his 3rd year.  He’s no rookie.  He inherited a rebuild-in-progress.  He was given a huge 11 month head start on his first draft.  He got rid of our best players.  He’d better have found great replacements.  

8 wins is the mandate.   I’m pulling for him.  

SAR I

[Action Zachtion]

5 hours ago, viffer said:

Boy, you're as right about JD as you were about Gase...

JD was holding out for offset language, which makes a lot of sense from a team point of view. The signing bonus payment was his bargaining chip. The Jets have paid the signing bonuses up front before, so there is no reason to believe they wouldn't do so for Wilson. By holding out for both they were able to "compromise." They got the offset language they wanted and only gave up the signing bonus payment they were probably always willing to give up.

It's amazing how many people on this board who have never negotiated anything are experts on negotiating tactics.

The Jets got what they wanted, and missed having their hopeful FQB for two shorts/no pads practices.

I called the lame ploy earlier but I'm still not impressed.  

I don't get the JD love crew... They had a 2 day holdout for a negotiable with very low value. 

He did the job he was supposed to do, just 3 weeks late is the best that can be said.  This is an overall negative for JD.  

[peebag]

29 minutes ago, SAR I said:

That’s nothing but optics.   Douglas’ primary accomplishment has been taking a 7 win team with a few NFL pro bowlers into a 2 win nosedive with no one brought in to replace them.  

This is a make or break season for this GM in this his 3rd year.  He’s no rookie.  He inherited a rebuild-in-progress.  He was given a huge 11 month head start on his first draft.  He got rid of our best players.  He’d better have found great replacements.  

8 wins is the mandate.   I’m pulling for him.  

SAR I

Who's setting this 8 win mandate?  Is it the Johnson's? What's the source?

[SAR I]

3 minutes ago, peebag said:

Who's setting this 8 win mandate?  Is it the Johnson's? What's the source?

Me.  On behalf of myself and smart Jets fans who aren’t going to get bamboozled again.  

If Joe Douglas is as great as everyone thinks he is then this is the year that his roster and coaching staff should show it. The schedule is easy.  All gas no excuses.  

SAR I

[HighPitch]

8 hours ago, SAR I said:

Joe Douglas has done more wrong than right since he got here, so botching the most important contract of his career is no surprise.

SAR I

LOL ok so I get the new angle:

Nobody cares about Gase anymore, so lets bash JD 24/7.

If the jets dont turn it around, you were the only one that called it. 
 

If they jets do turn it around, so admit you were wrong like you did with Gase in the end.

Once again taking a home run swing

Nice. But I really like the fan bash material best. Like the drinking, hot dog eating plumber joes that irritate you 8 sundays a year. More of that pls

[Dcat]

55 minutes ago, SAR I said:

8 wins is the mandate.   I’m pulling for him.  

SAR I

There is no such mandate.  You're making things up again. Unless it's your personal mandate in which case no one gives a crap.

[freestater]

21 minutes ago, SAR I said:

All gas no excuses

I'll agree that if ZW struggles, he was let down by his GM when his HC declared that all of his TC reps were precious and shouldn't be wasted on a vet QB during camp. These two days may have just ruined Zach's entire career. 

[Joe W. Namath]

51 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

LOL ok so I get the new angle:

Nobody cares about Gase anymore, so lets bash JD 24/7.

If the jets dont turn it around, you were the only one that called it. 
 

If they jets do turn it around, so admit you were wrong like you did with Gase in the end.

Once again taking a home run swing

Nice. But I really like the fan bash material best. Like the drinking, hot dog eating plumber joes that irritate you 8 sundays a year. More of that pls

In the 20 years ive read SAR posts, hes literally been right about nothing.  Not 1 thing.  Anything he thinks, the exact opposite happens.  He is the definition of a mush.

So him thinking Joe D stinks is gold for us jet fans.

If SAR starts harping on Zach Wilson get the gold jacket ready.  Zach will be the next mahomes.