The “rebuild” isn’t working

[Claymation]

1 minute ago, kevinc855 said:

He had full control of the roster after and made such bright moves like Mack 10 million dollars to never play center. He was here for 2019. Stop pretending different 

So the answer is none. That's all you had to say.

Hard to start a rebuild when you miss Free Agency and the NFL Draft but you knew that.

[fusionCA]

"the rebuild is not working!!!"

 

lets fire everyone , cut everyone and rebuild again!!!

[Matt39]

Last years draft was a disaster. It coming right after the Maccagnan disaster hurts Douglas probably more than it should, but it’s reality. 

[varjet]

You can’t rebuild by drafting 1 OL/year.  The Colts and Bills brought in multiples at once.  JD blew it last year by not drafting OL who were available.  Conklin and Thuney were not coming here.  
 

JD has no choice but to pay through the nose for OL next FA.  Moses is gone unless he is franchised, which is a possibility.   I would lock him up long term to check at least one OL position off.  
 

Everyone thought Becton had LT checked off.  They obviously lost track of he and Mima this past off season. 

 

[kevinc855]

8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Tear it all down and start over!  I'm tired of these half-assed rebuilds with a bunch of veterans.

The Jets finally tear it all down and start over.  Why are they so bad?  

This is a young team with a complicated system.  They are learning.  The camp/preseason is abbreviated compared to the past.  It will take time for them to get on the same page and for the coaches to know what isn't working and what is just a single player making a simple correctable mistake.

Some of our players that seem to offer something are probably the biggest offenders.  Mims probably isn't getting on the field because he doesn't know what he is doing.  Ty Johnson messed up at least one protection yesterday.  The lines and back of the D need to work as a unit which isn't happening.

Did anybody doubt that Bill Belichick is a scumbag would own a kid playing his 2nd NFL game out of BYU?  My friend (Viking fan) just complained about the Jets to me.  I told him, I know the Jets as well as anybody.  Didn't you notice I started the Pats D?  

For me, this was all expected and I still have a pretty rosy view of the potential of this group.  Yes, the 2020 draft seems weak, but Becton and Mann were contributing before the injuries.  They had a bunch of injuries at specific positions and a few guys are playing that only joined the team in September - Redwine, Colbert, Shaq Lawson,  Quincy Williams.  

I don't like to tell people how to fan, but if you expected this team to get off to a hot start  you are a delusional homer.  Suck it up, buttercup.  It'z always darkest before the dawn.  Yes, this was disappointing and the fact we suck doesn't mean that we will be good next year, but nothing I have seen means we won;t.  If you thought on August 20, 2021 that this team would compete in 2022, there is no reason to change that view IMO.

This is such a lazy asnwer. I know, everyone of you JD homers who like the rebuild "know better" you arent the "inpatient ones" you see THAT BIG PICTURE!! Oh save it!! This is a terrible team. You dont field a roster like this in the NFL. Its a disgrace. Zach didnt get "owned" by BB. He made alot of bad throws...period. 

Last year you told me to be chill about 2-14, this year you also want me to be chill about 2-14. When do you smart folks actually expect to start winning football games. 

[JustInFudge]

If Zach Wilson didnt put up one of the worst performances I've ever seen from a QB, that was a very winnable game.  Just a modicum of competence from the QB position and the Jets win.  

This was a conscious decision by the coaching staff and GM to throw him to the wolves in spite of what's best for this team and quite frankly, for Zach.  And that's the shame of it, when you're rebuilding and you dont really know what you have and you're breaking in a bunch of unknows and hoping for next season, having a QB like Wilson basically negates any roster assessment's you can make.

[kevinc855]

https://www.nj.com/jets/2021/09/nfl-insider-jets-joe-douglas-has-hung-zach-wilson-out-to-dry.html

[#27TheDominator]

44 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

What talent have we gotten rid of?

KelVin bE@cHum iZ sTarTinG 4 teH c@rD!naLs

[jj71787]

We have been in a rebuild every year since the AFC championship games. We tear it down and rebuild but we never rebuild it right. Not sure if it's coaching or talent, but players go to other teams and have success. Not sure what it is but this organization is missing what the rest of the NFL has/had. 

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

This is such a lazy asnwer. I know, everyone of you JD homers who like the rebuild "know better" you arent the "inpatient ones" you see THAT BIG PICTURE!! Oh save it!! This is a terrible team. You dont field a roster like this in the NFL. Its a disgrace. Zach didnt get "owned" by BB. He made alot of bad throws...period. 

Last year you told me to be chill about 2-14, this year you also want me to be chill about 2-14. When do you smart folks actually expect to start winning football games. 

I honestly don't give a **** if you chill or not.  If you expected this team to be good you were delusional.  This team was designed to develop slowly over the long haul.  Will it work?  Who the **** knows?  Probably not, but if you expected them to be good out of the gate this year you are a maroon.

[HawkeyeJet]

Douglas hasn’t even been an employee of the organization for 3 years let alone been rebuilding for 3 years.

This is a legitimate question for anyone who wants to answer.  What do you think is a reasonable time frame is for a bottom feeding team to turnaround their fortunes and be a respectable competitive group week in and week out?  

[kdels62]

49 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

It’s year 3 for JD. Let’s call it like it is 

He didn’t do FA or the Draft for his first year. He also succeeded like $90 million in spending. I don’t worry about that year.

[kevinc855]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

I honestly don't give a **** if you chill or not.  If you expected this team to be good you were delusional.  This team was designed to develop slowly over the long haul.  Will it work?  Who the **** knows?  Probably not, but if you expected them to be good out of the gate this year you are a maroon.

Answer the question and stop dodging.  What year are the Jets in your blow up plan good? asking for some 50k STH who watch this garbage

[kevinc855]

1 minute ago, kdels62 said:

He didn’t do FA or the Draft for his first year. He also succeeded like $90 million in spending. I don’t worry about that year.

He had absolute control of the roster. its years 3 folks

[sec101row23]

6 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

If Zach Wilson didnt put up one of the worst performances I've ever seen from a QB, that was a very winnable game.  Just a modicum of competence from the QB position and the Jets win.  

This was a conscious decision by the coaching staff and GM to throw him to the wolves in spite of what's best for this team and quite frankly, for Zach.  And that's the shame of it, when you're rebuilding and you dont really know what you have and you're breaking in a bunch of unknows and hoping for next season, having a QB like Wilson basically negates any roster assessment's you can make.

This becomes the bigger problem.  The development of all of your other younger players takes a step back when the QB plays like he did yesterday.  You learn nothing and develop nothing from yesterday.  Zach needed to sit yesterday, but there wasn’t even a washed up vet on the bench that you could bring in to run the offense.   

[#27TheDominator]

17 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Answer the question and stop dodging.  What year are the Jets in your blow up plan good? asking for some 50k STH who watch this garbage

How the **** do I know?  I knew they would suck with Gase.  I think Saleh is a good candidate.  I will give him enough time to do his install before I wet my ******* pants.  

You sound like you had Woody's ear circa March 2015.  

[joewilly12]

JD drafted poorly and signed a bunch of no name free agents.

He's trying to rebuild with less talented players acting as if he found superstars in the trash heap. 

We have 1 legitimate NFL WR on the roster.

We have 0 legitimate TE's on the roster. 

We have below average RB's on the roster. 

Our OL needs work. 

It's going to be a long season. 

[92ShaunEllis92]

Was at the game yesterday and all joy as a Jets fan was wiped out of me by mid-3rd qtr. 

The crowd was into early on, I have no voice today, but this team (whether it’s the rookie QB, or the FO/CS for not having a viable backup QB when the starter implodes) just leaves you feeling jaded.

The refs didn’t help our cause early either and stifled some momentum swings that would have had the crowd even more into the game. Just sucks and the notion of more patience and year X of “rebuilding” are wearing thin. It’s worth getting upset over, but makes one reconsider if this is how to spend the little time I have off & gorgeous Sundays  for such a repeatedly disappointing team. 

[bostonmajet]

1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

A halfway competitive football team. To much to ask?

Not at all; this is the expectations from this team; most people, however, thought that it would take 5-7 games before that would happen. Starting 0-2 and Zack having a worse than bad game doesn't change any of that IMO.

To be fair the defense has been playing better than I expected so far. Now, if in the second half of the season the offense is consistently bad - that is something else. But, this team won't be really good until a couple of OL, better TEs, and some DB/LBs are added and we get a pass rush. Next year should be playoffs or bust.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

The crowd was into early on, I have no voice today, but this team (whether it’s the rookie QB, or the FO/CS for not having a viable backup QB when the starter implodes) just leaves you feeling jaded.

Exactly a decent backup QB to take over so ZW can sit. 

Poor planning on JD's part. 

Mike White should have been in that game yesterday after the 3rd INT. 

[dbatesman]

9 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Answer the question and stop dodging. 

 

33 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

what talent from the 2019 team would be powering us to success today?

 

[kevinc855]

Just now, bostonmajet said:

Not at all; this is the expectations from this team; most people, however, thought that it would take 5-7 games before that would happen. Starting 0-2 and Zack having a worse than bad game doesn't change any of that IMO.

To be fair the defense has been playing better than I expected so far. Now, if in the second half of the season the offense is consistently bad - that is something else. But, this team won't be really good until a couple of OL, better TEs, and some DB/LBs are added and we get a pass rush. Next year should be playoffs or bust.

Have to be honest. This is the first im hearing how it takes a team a half season to play competent football. When the Jets went 6-2 under Gase in the 2nd half of the season in 2019 you all called it "garbage time". I do agree with @SAR I on that point. 

Again for not playing well till week 9? This is a fando thing. They have camp and pre season to get your Sh"t together. 

[jgb]

14 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I honestly don't give a **** if you chill or not.  If you expected this team to be good you were delusional.  This team was designed to develop slowly over the long haul.  Will it work?  Who the **** knows?  Probably not, but if you expected them to be good out of the gate this year you are a maroon.

This was always going to be a bad football team. However, I can understand the emotion because the OL (especially week 1) and Zach have looked really, really bad. I think people were hoping to see some "pop" in his game.

However, it's still extremely early. Two bad games won't define Zach's career. Now if we are sitting in the back quarter of the season and Zach has put up 80% stinkers... then it might be time to start to worry. It's extremely unlikely that JD/Jets will pull a Rosen and move on from Zach after one year unless he has a like a 30INT/10TD year or something absolutely indefensible but how much resource Jets put into a viable FA vet QB next off season will be decided by Zach's entire body of work.

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, Claymation said:

This year is a learning one for Zach, and if he's worth his salt, he'll get better as the season goes along. That's what a rebuilding year is.

The Jets had more total yards than NE, more rushing yards, more passing & better at 3rd efficiency. The difference was Zach threw 4 interceptions. They lost the turnover battle 4-0. NE fumbled twice yesterday, one they recovered and the other the referee called the receiver down.

Zach's passes were consistently high & missed quite a few open receivers. It's up to Zach and the CS to fix that.

If we are going to talk "over all" not only are we dealing with nagging injuries to players that are on the current roster and able to play at some point in the next few weeks, but we are also missing 5 starters that are now done or close to done for the entire season. Curry Lawson Becton Davis Joyner  and most of those are on defense and the defense is doing all they can to be great but they are on the field for way to long to actually be great.

Zach's problem yesterday is he needs to check down once in a while and its obvious he does not like too but he better learn to pick his spots when to be aggressive, because being aggressive on our side of the field creates turnovers that usually end up in points. I have no problem with him taking shots when we are at the 50 but I have a big problem with him taking shots from our own 10 yard line  or inside our own 30 for that matter. Not sure why early on this was not addressed with the kid but at some point we need to design plays that are a bit more conservative so Zach can get in the rhythm he was talking about.

We have a lot of speed on offense and I have not seen one WR screen or RB screen for that matter just to get the team in that rhythm in 2 weeks. I want to like Lefleur but as of now I'm not very impressed with his play calling in general or situational play calling.

[playtowinthegame]

15 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

If Zach Wilson didnt put up one of the worst performances I've ever seen from a QB, that was a very winnable game.  Just a modicum of competence from the QB position and the Jets win.  

This was a conscious decision by the coaching staff and GM to throw him to the wolves in spite of what's best for this team and quite frankly, for Zach.  And that's the shame of it, when you're rebuilding and you dont really know what you have and you're breaking in a bunch of unknows and hoping for next season, having a QB like Wilson basically negates any roster assessment's you can make.

That's why I wanted a veteran quarterback. If Zach isn't ready I wanted a vet who could get the ball in the hands of our skill position players so we could properly evaluate them.

[carlito1171]

The plan was always dependent upon drafting well....if it turns out we didn't it will be another rinse and repeat situation. 

 

The Browns were just able to do this successfully. Bills as well to an extent. It can be done. You have to hit on your picks. 

[kevinc855]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

This was always going to be a bad football team. However, I can understand the emotion because the OL (especially week 1) and Zach have looked really, really bad. I think people were hoping to see some "pop" in his game.

However, it's still extremely early. Two bad games won't define Zach's career. Now if we are sitting in the back quarter of the season and Zach has put up 80% stinkers... then it might be time to start to worry. It's extremely unlikely that JD/Jets will pull a Rosen and move on from Zach after one year unless he has a like a 30INT/10TD year or something absolutely indefensible but how much resource Jets put into a viable FA vet QB next off season will be decided by Zach's entire body of work.

I dont think we move on from Zach at all. We had Darnold start 3 years. (He is actually playin well now, go figure) It makes me worry alot. This is the next 3-4 seasons on the line. He needs a better line and he needs to mature in his decisions. The boos are healthy for him. He needs a little humbling

[bostonmajet]

4 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Have to be honest. This is the first im hearing how it takes a team a half season to play competent football. When the Jets went 6-2 under Gase in the 2nd half of the season in 2019 you all called it "garbage time". I do agree with @SAR I on that point. 

Again for not playing well till week 9? This is a fando thing. They have camp and pre season to get your Sh"t together. 

hmm - i kind of thought my sh't was together.

New HC and coaching staff; new system across the board. over 20% (12+) second year players (without OTAs and real training last year) and almost another 20% (9) rookies will cause this.

The Pats don't have this. problem as the CS has been stable forever and the most of the team knows the system inside and out. They add some rookies and they are surrounded by players who know the system. This just isn't the case.

Many teams have this problem for the first 2 weeks because of the limited preseason and CBA practice rules.

For those of us who thought this team would take a while to get acclimated (just like with SF D last year), this isn't a surprise. A lot of the talking heads were saying the same thing this summer. I think expectations became overly optimistic because of a good pre-season.

[FTL Jet Fan]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

Actually, the “rebuild” is working exactly as the Johnson brothers have hoped it would.  A rebuild keeps fans hopeful while accepting losing.   The perennial mantra of “hey we have a top 3 draft pick and $80M in cap room, oh the possibilities” is the ultimate rebuilding mindset.   It’s exhausting, wake me up when it becomes about the wins and losses, because this perennial rebuilding has run its course.  

Exactly what the Jets are great at PR BS through the media,  Hyping fans up, sending out stupid Tweets about the past. The the national media comparing  this kid to other QB before he steps on the field. The same thing with our past QB’s This is one of the many  problem with the Jets. It sets us up to fail every time.

That’s why I am I will believe it when I see it with this team. 

[kevinc855]

Just now, bostonmajet said:

hmm - i kind of thought my sh't was together.

New HC and coaching staff; new system across the board. over 20% (12+) second year players (without OTAs and real training last year) and almost another 20% (9) rookies will cause this.

The Pats don't have this. problem as the CS has been stable forever and the most of the team knows the system inside and out. They add some rookies and they are surrounded by players who know the system. This just isn't the case.

Many teams have this problem for the first 2 weeks because of the limited preseason and CBA practice rules.

For those of us who thought this team would take a while to get acclimated (just like with SF D last year), this isn't a surprise. A lot of the talking heads were saying the same thing this summer. I think expectations became overly optimistic because of a good pre-season.

Alright, I will save this for when it "all comes together" around week 9? Fair? or later? 

[dbatesman]

28 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

https://www.nj.com/jets/2021/09/nfl-insider-jets-joe-douglas-has-hung-zach-wilson-out-to-dry.html

For anyone who doesn’t feel like clicking through (and you shouldn’t), it’s just Peter King saying this;

I think Jets GM Joe Douglas let down Jets franchise quarterback Zach Wilson on Sunday. I’ve harped on this through the offseason, the need in New York for a veteran backup to be a guide for Wilson. And Sunday, the need showed up. 26-year-old backup Mike White the only man in reserve. Four minutes into the second half of a loss to New England, Wilson dropped back and let a bomb fly deep down the middle of the field. No Jet was close when the ball fell to earth. But a Patriot was close—safety Devin McCourty, who intercepted it. Four interceptions in 35 minutes for the green Wilson. After the pick by McCourty, Wilson should have been yanked, given the rest of the day off while a hold-the-fort vet finished. There is no hold-the-fort vet, so Wilson stayed in and took his lumps. It’s just not sensible to treat the long-term answer at quarterback like this.

What a load of horsesh*t. You can say he hung the rest of the team out to dry, because Andy Dalton or Gardner Minshew probably wins yesterday’s game, but hanging Wilson out to dry? Give me a ******* break. Wilson’s the starter, for better or worse. When he sucks out loud, no one is benching him to protect his feelings. The idea that we need to save these guys from themselves so they don’t get sad is ******* pathological.

[FactsOnly]

The rebuild literally just started

Big Joe has had 1 draft prior to this year and had to get rid of the stink left by Mac (Darnold, Adams, Williams) not to mention Adam Gase

[FactsOnly]

1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

What about from his second draft? 

MC1, MC2, Moore, Hamsah, AVT, Wilson  are all starters. 

I have concerns about the team but yesterday was probably the worst Wilson will play in his whole career and he alone cost us the game. The OL played well, the defense was as good your gonna get considering how inept Wilson was. JFM, Huff, Hall are all good players at key positions on defense. 

Not to mention 3 of the players from the first draft are on IR

And LeFleur is clueless on Mims

[bostonmajet]

Just now, kevinc855 said:

Alright, I will save this for when it "all comes together" around week 9? Fair? or later? 

Agreed they need to get their sh*t together. If they don't improve I agree it will be time to panic.

If Mims and Becton aren't playing well by the end of the season; AVT and Moore; if Zack doesn't start looking the part and next year's draft doesn't pan out - it will be time for JD to go as well.

I have faith. Our new coaching staff has shown, in the past, they are good at developing players - something we have NOT had for a while. I think they have earned the first half of the season to prove it.

[Smashmouth]

17 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Answer the question and stop dodging.  What year are the Jets in your blow up plan good? asking for some 50k STH who watch this garbage

when you build via the draft and have 12 rookies + 9 second year players there are going to be growing pains and you will start to see what we really have around 5 to 8 games in when this team starts to grasp WTF is going on. If at that point we don't start to see results then there's one of 2 problems we have the wrong OC or the wrong players. We are not yet at that point.

If you remember last year it took TAMPA BAY with TOM BRADY 8 games before they started to show results and that's a team with seasoned vets across the board so Imagine what its going to take with the youth I mentioned at the beginning of this post. We installed a new coaching staff with a totally different scheme that the last 2 coaches that spanned 6 +years so players that did not fit that scheme were sent packing and the re-build was on. At this point that's all you really need to understand. It looks to me there were mistakes across the board on offense yesterday and Zach rather than being conservative and letting things develop decided to take ill advised shots down field and it bit him in the ass and it bit the team in the ass and that's pretty much it.