OL playing much better, but Wilson isn't

[AFJF]

I know people like to pull a few plays each week where the OL looks like a sh*t show as proof that the group sucks and they need to draft fifteen OL in April, but some nice trends per PFF.

Only drawback is not knowing how many of the pressures/sacks are on Zach because of holding on to the ball too long or taking too deep of a drop but fair to say we know he has done that a fair bit, meaning the OL is even better than the numbers show.

 

[rangerous]

37 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I know people like to pull a few plays each week where the OL looks like a sh*t show as proof that the group sucks and they need to draft fifteen OL in April, but some nice trends per PFF.

Only drawback is not knowing how many of the pressures/sacks are on Zach because of holding on to the ball too long or taking too deep of a drop but fair to say we know he has done that a fair bit, meaning the OL is even better than the numbers show.

 

it looks like the chart is incomplete.  it would make more sense if they showed the qb's snap to pass time for each game.  then there's a direct correlation to the pressure percentage.  i do agree the oline is playing better.  i also agree that wilson is holding the ball too long.  that was shown in vitor's pass analysis on jetX.

[JustInFudge]

The OL has been very good for a few weeks now.  Getting Van Rotten out and LDT helps too, so I honestly expect it to continue to get a little better each week.  They were clearly adjusting to new a new blocking scheme at the start of the season and Wilson was holding the ball way too long. VR was a liability but even so, it's never been as bad we thought.   OL's are going to allow pressure.  It happens.  It's the NFL.  I'm most impressed with their run blocking improvements, to be honest. 

What Zach needs to learn is how to help his OL out by not only getting the ball out faster but more importantly he needs to be more precise and consistent with his drop backs.  They're a mess right now.  He creates a lot of pressure on his own because he doesnt know how to stop his drop backs, 3 steps turn into 5/6, 5 turn into 7/8, and then fades left and right away from center of the pocket a ton.  All these habits, create pressure that wasnt necessarily there and allows for easier angles for pass rushers.  It also throws the timing off of everything they're trying to do but that's another conversation.  Many of these pressures and sacks, are on Zach.  

 

[Scott Dierking]

The thing about stats like this is that they do not discriminate against teams played and game situations.

The take away here is the snap to pass number, which we knew was poor. Wilson has been a slow processor. Also, the Jets prefer to roll him in the pocket.

[Barry McCockinner]

26 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

The OL has been very good for a few weeks now.  Getting Van Rotten out and LDT helps too, so I honestly expect it to continue to get a little better each week.  They were clearly adjusting to new a new blocking scheme at the start of the season and Wilson was holding the ball way too long. VR was a liability but even so, it's never been as bad we thought.   OL's are going to allow pressure.  It happens.  It's the NFL.  I'm most impressed with their run blocking improvements, to be honest. 

What Zach needs to learn is how to help his OL out by not only getting the ball out faster but more importantly he needs to be more precise and consistent with his drop backs.  They're a mess right now.  He creates a lot of pressure on his own because he doesnt know how to stop his drop backs, 3 steps turn into 5/6, 5 turn into 7/8, and then fades left and right away from center of the pocket a ton.  All these habits, create pressure that wasnt necessarily there and allows for easier angles for pass rushers.  It also throws the timing off of everything they're trying to do but that's another conversation.  Many of these pressures and sacks, are on Zach.  

 

The main problem IMO is that LaFleur only calls teh good plays for the other 12 QB's we've seen run the offense with efficiency. He likes to call it differently for Wilson, specifically, he calls teh bad plays with a much higher frequency.

[jamesr]

Snap to pass could be due to various factors. Great pass protection against a strong rush is one possibility; another is that the opposing D drop most men into coverage to confuse a young QB and the sacks / pressures are more due to coverage because the QB can't find anyone open.

I highly doubt that the plan is to have Zach hold the ball on slow developing plays ... more likely he is struggling to read pre-snap and identify his go to target that enables that quick rhythm offense that saw with White at QB.

[The Crusher]

29 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

The OL has been very good for a few weeks now.  Getting Van Rotten out and LDT helps too, so I honestly expect it to continue to get a little better each week.  They were clearly adjusting to new a new blocking scheme at the start of the season and Wilson was holding the ball way too long. VR was a liability but even so, it's never been as bad we thought.   OL's are going to allow pressure.  It happens.  It's the NFL.  I'm most impressed with their run blocking improvements, to be honest. 

What Zach needs to learn is how to help his OL out by not only getting the ball out faster but more importantly he needs to be more precise and consistent with his drop backs.  They're a mess right now.  He creates a lot of pressure on his own because he doesnt know how to stop his drop backs, 3 steps turn into 5/6, 5 turn into 7/8, and then fades left and right away from center of the pocket a ton.  All these habits, create pressure that wasnt necessarily there and allows for easier angles for pass rushers.  It also throws the timing off of everything they're trying to do but that's another conversation.  Many of these pressures and sacks, are on Zach.  

 

He has been stepping backwards in the pocket since college. Someone I think @win4ever did a nice breakdown pre draft and that was one of my biggest takeaways. Not sure if it could be corrected or how it could be corrected, but it’s been there since they scouted him. 

[Barry McCockinner]

 

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

I know people like to pull a few plays each week where the OL looks like a sh*t show as proof that the group sucks and they need to draft fifteen OL in April, but some nice trends per PFF.

Only drawback is not knowing how many of the pressures/sacks are on Zach because of holding on to the ball too long or taking too deep of a drop but fair to say we know he has done that a fair bit, meaning the OL is even better than the numbers show.

 

Can’t help but think Wilson’s extended time is due to instantly bailing on the pocket.

[T0mShane]

Isn’t Zach’s entire BYU highlight reel just him running out of the pocket and flipping it downfield to open receivers (who now sell life insurance as a career)?

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Isn’t Zach’s entire BYU highlight reel just him running out of the pocket and flipping it downfield to open receivers (who now sell life insurance as a career)?

Lots of rolling out, zero wide open receivers.  I believe he was the top rated passer in the country on tight window throws and it showed up on film.  This is why his sudden inability to hit guys who actually are wide open and only a few yards away is confusing.

[Scott Dierking]

6 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Lots of rolling out, zero wide open receivers.  I believe he was the top rated passer in the country on tight window throws and it showed up on film.  This is why his sudden inability to hit guys who actually are wide open and only a few yards away is confusing.

Over thinking and not letting the game flow. He seems tightly wound. Hopefully it smooths over.

Maybe his mom actually is overbearing.

[Sammybighead]

We’re all aware Zach is the issue. It’s been discussed ad nauseum and proven out by his backups.

Let’s pray he begins to evolve as the oline did.

[Uncle Nicco]

“Holding the ball to long” really? What play did Wilson hold the ball too long? He was inaccurate but making good decisions. Let’s not get things twisted . Protection was OK but it cost us the first Moore TD and they also several runs blown up for loses. 

[Dunnie]

Whoa .. rookie struggles with parts of his game out of the gate .. story at 10 est.

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[Dunnie]

Can’t help but think Wilson’s extended time is due to instantly bailing on the pocket.

Or called rollouts to be more accurate.

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[sec101row23]

Aside from a glaring hole at the TE position, the rest of the offense has showed, with any QB not named Zach, it is at least capable of being an average NFL offense.  A huge improvement over what we have seen the past  several years. 

[Sonny Werblin]

2 hours ago, AFJF said:

I know people like to pull a few plays each week where the OL looks like a sh*t show as proof that the group sucks and they need to draft fifteen OL in April, but some nice trends per PFF.

Only drawback is not knowing how many of the pressures/sacks are on Zach because of holding on to the ball too long or taking too deep of a drop but fair to say we know he has done that a fair bit, meaning the OL is even better than the numbers show.

 

Quote

 

Release time

This is the one area of Wilson’s game where we saw some noticeable progress during his performance against Houston.

Wilson held the ball for an average of 3.10 seconds over his first six games, which trailed only Jalen Hurts among qualifiers entering Week 12.

Against the Texans, Wilson got that number down to 2.68, a season-low for him. That is a middle-of-the-pack release speed – for reference, it would currently rank 15th out of 32 qualifiers on the season.

Wilson did a visibly better job of getting the ball out quickly and finding his safe options underneath. He obviously has to be more effective at actually completing those throws, but it was promising to see Wilson speed up his processing and refrain from hanging on to the ball too long.

https://jetsxfactor.com/2021/11/30/zach-wilson-progress-3-critical-areas-texans-jets/

 

 

[Hal N of Provo]

34 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Lots of rolling out, zero wide open receivers.  I believe he was the top rated passer in the country on tight window throws and it showed up on film.  This is why his sudden inability to hit guys who actually are wide open and only a few yards away is confusing.

In college he knows exactly what the coverages are and he’s toying with them.  He isn’t thinking about anything big picture, he knows what’s coming and it’s all easy for him.  

When they run vanilla Zone stuff this year he looks like that now.   The D coordinators are not dumb.  They are watching the tape and screwing with him.  

On Sunday it was obvious the Texsan’s knew how to cover the “script.”
 

The path to victory:
1) The script BS needs to go   The slow starts are from that.  Have a script, just rethink the goals of play calls, and let it rip deep early to keep the D honest.

2) It’s got to slow down for Zach and I think it will.   There is no robbing time.  Zach is putting in the film room work, and the D is training his eye.

 

 

[Hal N of Provo]

4 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Aside from a glaring hole at the TE position, the rest of the offense has showed, with any QB not named Zach, it is at least capable of being an average NFL offense.  A huge improvement over what we have seen the past  several years. 

Agreed.   But adjustments to the success of other QBs showed why they are willing to let Zach learn.  The 20 yard throws Zach has an easy time with aren’t there for White.  
 

I see a path to this team becoming VERY good.  I think it’s happening.  

[thebuzzardman]

He's been playing like a not to be named spongy Hostess snack cake

[Jets4Life1979]

33 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

We’re all aware Zach is the issue. It’s been discussed ad nauseum and proven out by his backups.

Let’s pray he begins to evolve as the oline did.

So Flacco getting destroyed by an unblocked rusher against Miami while we're in the red zone was on wilson too?

[TuscanyTile2]

7 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

The path to victory:
1) The script BS needs to go   The slow starts are from that.  Have a script, just rethink the goals of play calls, and let it rip deep early to keep the D honest.

I was thinking they're using the script so he'd feel more comfortable with certain plays (that they'd run many times over in practice).  But the scripted plays haven't seemed to be very effective and he doesn't seem to be very comfortable.  

[Dunnie]

Aside from a glaring hole at the TE position, the rest of the offense has showed, with any QB not named Zach, it is at least capable of being an average NFL offense.  A huge improvement over what we have seen the past  several years. 

Yup .. and the hope is once the gane slows down for zach .. the offense reaches heights those other QBs could only reach in their dreams.

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[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

He has been stepping backwards in the pocket since college. Someone I think @win4ever did a nice breakdown pre draft and that was one of my biggest takeaways. Not sure if it could be corrected or how it could be corrected, but it’s been there since they scouted him. 

Yes, very evident on this film that he struggled mightily with simple drop backs and abandoning clean pockets, honestly, not sure it's fixable.  This is the same thing I hated about Bakery Mayflower when he came out and it's plagued him in the league as well, he's just much more accurate than Wilson.

[JustInFudge]

26 minutes ago, Uncle Nicco said:

“Holding the ball to long” really? What play did Wilson hold the ball too long? He was inaccurate but making good decisions. Let’s not get things twisted . Protection was OK but it cost us the first Moore TD and they also several runs blown up for loses. 

This ******* guy, what play did hold the ball too long and then literally references a play, where held the ball too long.

lmfao

[JustInFudge]

57 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Isn’t Zach’s entire BYU highlight reel just him running out of the pocket and flipping it downfield to open receivers (who now sell life insurance as a career)?

Yes.  And tons of just toss ups 50/50 balls where he required a receiver to make an absolute ridiculous catch.  Lots of open receivers vs. the most laughable defense you've ever seen.

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

Yes, very evident on this film that he struggled mightily with simple drop backs and abandoning clean pockets, honestly, not sure it's fixable.  This is the same thing I hated about Bakery Mayflower when he came out and it's plagued him in the league as well, he's just much more accurate than Wilson.

So true.   One of the biggest differences we saw and pointed out when White first took over was how White, when he reached the top of his drops, was that he either threw the ball when the back foot hit, or he would shuffle forward up into the pocket.  It was no coincidence that because of that the O-line all of sudden looked competent.  Not only does Zach drift, but he totally abandons even basic footwork fundamentals, thus leading to some really inaccurate throws.  

[T0mShane]

22 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

the D is training his eye.

cc: @joewilly12

[Gastineau Lives]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Isn’t Zach’s entire BYU highlight reel just him running out of the pocket and flipping it downfield to open receivers (who now sell life insurance as a career)?

Zachs receivers won all the 50 50 bawls 

Zachs receivers were wide open

[thebuzzardman]

20 minutes ago, thebuzzardman said:

He's been playing like a not to be named spongy Hostess snack cake

Let it be known I'm referencing Sno-Balls. Nothing else. You degenerates. 

[HawkeyeJet]

Wilson could have really benefited from that predicted Mims breakout game against the Texans.

[T0mShane]

11 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Zachs receivers won all the 50 50 bawls 

Zachs receivers were wide open

Zach is so bad that passes to wide open receivers are 50/50 balls

[thebuzzardman]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Zach is so bad that passes to wide open receivers are 50/50 balls

Zach is from the part of the country where a lot of the people practice a philosophy that until not that long ago encouraged sharing.  So, it's possible this sort of behavior is ingrained. 

[jamesr]

38 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I was thinking they're using the script so he'd feel more comfortable with certain plays (that they'd run many times over in practice).  But the scripted plays haven't seemed to be very effective and he doesn't seem to be very comfortable.  

But is that because of the plays or because of the player?

If the plays are fine in practices and Zach is hitting the receiver with catchable passes all week, then it must be something to do with the game day itself - pressure to perform, crowd noise, opposing D etc. AKA "The yips".

I cant imagine they run through this stuff in practice, go three and out and say "yep, let's roll with that on Sunday".