State of the Jets Roster - GM Comparison

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Okay.  I am out.  If I can't define potential vs. production in twelve posts that's on me.  I guess I can go back and look for the posts of you counting McKnight as part of our young core players or saying you were happier to give him and Greene and shot than hang on to Thomas Jones and Leon Washington.  

Yes.  Please do this.  

[HawkeyeJet]

57 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Joe McKnight was a complimentary back for a loaded USC program, where he had 13 career rushing TDs and 2 receiving TDs, hence why he was a # 112 overall pick.  Breece Hall was a true bell cow at Iowa St where he collected 56 total TDs.  He had nearly twice as many yards from scrimmage (4,675) as McKnight (2,755) in their respective collegiate careers.  They aren't comparable.   

Even noted ISU hater @HawkeyeJet would have to reluctantly admit that Breece Hall is an elite RB prospect.

I would agree.  He never beat Iowa, just like his overrated coach Matt Campbell, but he’s got all the tools to be the best offensive skill player this franchise has had in about 20 years.

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

Yep. And a couple of practice reports which, as we all know, are gospel and highly predictive.

If Sauce busts, the CB group takes a big hit, no doubt. Rightly or wrongly I am fairly confident that he isn't going to. He profiled as one of the safest prospects in many drafts and his performance since then has seemed to reflect it.

Same for Hall. RB is one of the few positions that rookies can routinely come in and, no pun intended, hit the ground running. He's the type of prospect who would have been an early first round pick in a different era, and again, his performance in the first portion of the off season seems to validate that. Again, he could bust, but I am fairly confident that he won't.

I am much less confident in Garrett Wilson. Receivers often have a tougher transition to the NFL, and he wasn't a blow you away type of college Prospect. But early reports have been encouraging, he's flashed in practices, and only needs to work into the mix as a number three or four wide receiver. So, lower confidence range, but still pretty confident.

I have much much less confidence in Johnson, Clemons, and ruckert, particularly when it comes to the extent of their impact as rookies. But their position groups are deep enough that any real contributions from them will be bonuses for purposes of this analysis.

I agree with this analysis.  Everybody defines these terms differently.  For me the issue is not that I think they will all bust.  It is that I feel there is a wide gulf between busting and reaching their full potential.  If they reach their full potential, I think your happy outlook on the roster is correct.  OTOH, just because they don't bust, that doesn't mean they will be better than some of those other position groupings.

[Ron Rico]

I hate using dichotomies to explain/rationalize my feelings, but...

In the NFL, each team is either getting younger, or getting older. 

In the either/or paradigm (which I despise), I'm happy to see the Jets getting younger. This is a good, young team, and I look forward to watching them compete this year.

[JustInFudge]

42 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

Yep. And a couple of practice reports which, as we all know, are gospel and highly predictive.

If Sauce busts, the CB group takes a big hit, no doubt. Rightly or wrongly I am fairly confident that he isn't going to. He profiled as one of the safest prospects in many drafts and his performance since then has seemed to reflect it.

Same for Hall. RB is one of the few positions that rookies can routinely come in and, no pun intended, hit the ground running. He's the type of prospect who would have been an early first round pick in a different era, and again, his performance in the first portion of the off season seems to validate that. Again, he could bust, but I am fairly confident that he won't.

I am much less confident in Garrett Wilson. Receivers often have a tougher transition to the NFL, and he wasn't a blow you away type of college Prospect. But early reports have been encouraging, he's flashed in practices, and only needs to work into the mix as a number three or four wide receiver. So, lower confidence range, but still pretty confident.

I have much much less confidence in Johnson, Clemons, and ruckert, particularly when it comes to the extent of their impact as rookies. But their position groups are deep enough that any real contributions from them will be bonuses for purposes of this analysis.

Oh dude, dont get me wrong.  This was literally my ideal draft minus Wan'Dale Robinson.  The receipts are out there, I wanted Sauce/Johnson w/ Garrett as my favorite WR in the draft and Hall as my favorite RB and I loved Ruckert as a mid round TE.  Never in a million years I thought we could land them all.  That said, it's hard to make declarative statements like this group is better than that one, without seeing them play.  However, I will agree, I havent been this excited to see a Jets team take the field in a long time because of my optimism of the talent that has been collected. 

 

[Maynard13]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Greene sucked.  I loved Ivory and the way he ran with reckless abandonment but he wasn't a pass catcher.  LT still had some juice left in the tank but he was a shadow of what he was in the mid-2000s.

You don't really need to see a RB play at the pro level yet to determine if he'll be a success out of the gates.  It's pretty much a no-brainer that Hall will.  Especially in a system like ours where its as "plug n play" as it gets for RBs.  I don't think this team has had a RB with his skill level since perhaps Freeman McNeil. 

So, yeah, without seeing him play a down, I'm willing to say he and Michael Carter are the best duo we've seen in a long time, and perhaps ever.

Was hoping they’d give Breece #24.  He’s more Freeman than Curtis or Jones. 

[CSNY]

2 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

Was hoping they’d give Breece #24.  He’s more Freeman than Curtis or Jones. 

Dam Freeman was good. Not fast but had ankle breaking moves and I just really liked the way he ran the ball. Great Jet that Freeman McNeil

[Jet2020]

8 hours ago, nycdan said:

The OL in 2010 was the best we've had in 40 years, maybe ever.

Brick, Faneca, Mangold, Moore, Woody.  Solid all the way across.  No way I take this year's group over that one.

Faneca was cut after the 2009 season. The 2009-2010 IL group was indeed our best OL possibly ever and it showed with the two deep playoff runs. 2010 RB, WR and TE groups were also very solid and all that resulted in above average QB play. 
 

I still don’t get why everyone is getting on their knees for JD when his teams haven’t had a half decent showing. It’s all based on potential, mostly QBs potential. We haven’t surrounded the QB with the 2009-2010 roster and so Wilson really needs to be a top 16 QB for this season to be successful and I have my reservations. 

[LIJetsFan]

14 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

Anyway, the main point of the analysis wasn't that this team is a better team than the team that went 11 and 5. It's that this roster is stocked with NFL players top to bottom and legitimate depth at almost every position. For the longest time, you would look at the Jets roster in find Fringe NFL players occupying key spots on the depth chart, as primary backups if not sometimes his starters. That's not this roster anymore. There is nobody slated for a meaningful role as a starter or primary backup with the possible exception of the safety position, LB, and OT, where you wonder how that guy is even on an NFL team.

I think the roster is good.  This season is almost totally on the CS to make something of it.  

[Joe W. Namath]

Joe Douglas is a generational GM.  What he has done since starting this ground up rebuild 19 months ago is nothing short of a miracle.

Thank you Joe Douglas!  Thank you!!

[CSNY]

10 hours ago, Jet2020 said:
 

I still don’t get why everyone is getting on their knees for JD when his teams haven’t had a half decent showing. It’s all based on potential, mostly QBs potential. We haven’t surrounded the QB with the 2009-2010 roster and so Wilson really needs to be a top 16 QB for this season to be successful and I have my reservations. 

This is just my opinion but the reason why the majority of Jets fans like JD is finally finally there is a clear plan on how to rebuild this franchise. JDs predecessor’s really had no clue on how to build perennial winning teams where JDs plan is plainly visible and by most accounts by the so called pundits has significantly upgraded the talent level on the roster.   It still remains to be seen if the players eventually work out but I like the direction of the franchise and JDs thought process of building a team 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

On paper, this team is loaded.

Douglas has built a compete roster.  Layering draft picks and supplementing with crucial vets.  You could see what he was doing if you took the objective approach to his rosters instead of just bitching about Mims, Davis, and not drafting Fields. 

It still has to perform on the field, but that's on the players.  

I expect a successful run the next 4-5 years. 

 

[Dunnie]

On paper, this team is loaded.
Douglas has built a compete roster.  Layering draft picks and supplementing with crucial vets.  You could see what he was doing if you took the objective approach to his rosters instead of just bitching about Mims, Davis, and not drafting Fields. 
It still has to perform on the field, but that's on the players.  
I expect a successful run the next 4-5 years. 
 

This is the best state the roster has been in 30 years ... maybe ever. Contract situation is healthy ... draft capital.is healthy... competition across the roster ... can it get better yes ... but I honestly cant ever remember feel this good about the work being put in by the front office. Mangini was the last time really.... and he got sh*t canned for the clown before he could grow the team.

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[Jimmy 2 Times]

3 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

This is the best state the roster has been in 30 years ... maybe ever. Contract situation is healthy ... draft capital.is healthy... competition across the roster ... can it get better yes ... but I honestly cant ever remember feel this good about the work being put in by the front office. Mangini was the last time really.... and he got sh*t canned for the clown before he could grow the team.

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Agreed.  I look forward to watching JD play the comp game and trading expiring vets for draft picks.  

I'm already anticipating the "Jets are cheap and never play their players!" complaint as Douglas continues to work the system.   Churning out expensive vets for high draft picks. 

 

Please extend Q tho. 

[rangerous]

good summary.  mostly agree.  right now i'm going with the 2015 receiver group.  marshall, decker, enunwa all fed off each other.  marshall was good enough so teams had to prepare for him and that left decker and enunwa free.  although if you factor in the te's and rb's this years team can be pretty special.  it doesn't seem like they'll have a true no. 1 receiver but there are guys with potential.  maybe wilson surprises out the gate.

[Dunnie]

good summary.  mostly agree.  right now i'm going with the 2015 receiver group.  marshall, decker, enunwa all fed off each other.  marshall was good enough so teams had to prepare for him and that left decker and enunwa free.  although if you factor in the te's and rb's this years team can be pretty special.  it doesn't seem like they'll have a true no. 1 receiver but there are guys with potential.  maybe wilson surprises out the gate.

My money is on Moore dominating. Wilson in an awesome raw talent ... but sloppy in his route running as of now.

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[nycdan]

12 hours ago, Jet2020 said:

Faneca was cut after the 2009 season. The 2009-2010 IL group was indeed our best OL possibly ever and it showed with the two deep playoff runs. 2010 RB, WR and TE groups were also very solid and all that resulted in above average QB play. 
 

I still don’t get why everyone is getting on their knees for JD when his teams haven’t had a half decent showing. It’s all based on potential, mostly QBs potential. We haven’t surrounded the QB with the 2009-2010 roster and so Wilson really needs to be a top 16 QB for this season to be successful and I have my reservations. 

Good catch.  I meant 2009.  That year had the five I mentioned.

Regardless of how things turn out, I think anyone can agree that JD has completely overhauled and improved this roster since taking over the dumpster fire that he inherited 3 years ago.  This team feels like it should be very competitive, with a lot fewer unrecognizable names on the top end of the depth chart like we used to have.  Granted it will all come down to Zach, but no GM, not even the smartest ones, can be sure if they are drafting Josh Allen or Josh Rosen.  You place the best bets you can, make smart trades, manage the cap, and make good signings.  Over time, that will give you a good roster.  I think JD has accomplished that.  If Zach Wilson turns out to be Joe Burrow, this team can be last year's Bengals very soon.  If not, it's a roster that's ready to bring in an accomplished veteran QB and make some noise.  Either way, I'm happy with the job he's done here.

[Jethead]

13 hours ago, CSNY said:

Dam Freeman was good. Not fast but had ankle breaking moves and I just really liked the way he ran the ball. Great Jet that Freeman McNeil

On my list of all-time Jets!

[More Cowbell]

22 hours ago, Jet2020 said:

Jets went 11-5 in 2010. Wrong year. That was one of the best Jets roster in a while. 

Offense: Sanchez, LT, Braylon, Holmes, Keller, Brick, Mangold, woody, Moore, Slauson

That’s an average group but it’s probably our best since then. 

I was going tonsay, why was this team not mentioned. This team had a chance to go to a SB. 

[LIJetsFan]

1 hour ago, CSNY said:

This is just my opinion but the reason why the majority of Jets fans like JD is finally finally there is a clear plan on how to rebuild this franchise. JDs predecessor’s really had no clue on how to build perennial winning teams where JDs plan is plainly visible and by most accounts by the so called pundits has significantly upgraded the talent level on the roster.   It still remains to be seen if the players eventually work out but I like the direction of the franchise and JDs thought process of building a team 

I don't think it would have been possible to rebuild so quickly had DJ not traded dead wood for draft pick.  W/o those picks the rebuild is very much slower.  So JD had a plan on how to implement his plan as well.  Hats off to our GM.      

[32EBoozer]

2 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Agreed.  I look forward to watching JD play the comp game and trading expiring vets for draft picks.  

I'm already anticipating the "Jets are cheap and never play their players!" complaint as Douglas continues to work the system.   Churning out expensive vets for high draft picks. 

 

Please extend Q tho. 

Agree 100% with playing the Comp game. But other than Fant, we don’t have the horses to take advantage of this game. 

Taking a look at where things stand moving into the season JD has the following options

George Fant: Do you extend him or let him walk for a big money payday ($16-$18m) or play the Comp game and slide Becton to LT & draft a RT next year? 

Kwon Alexander: Depending on how he plays this year, I can see JD extending him if he plays well  

JD will be looking to make the playoffs next year by supplementing our young talent with key vets in FA.  A 3rd round Comp pick in ‘24 isn’t reason enough to pass on FA next year  
 

Cutting CJ, Davis, Lawson next season could save us $40m in Cap Space but I believe that JD will look to renegotiate their deals especially if they play well, which I expect  them to  

 

 

[CSNY]

1 hour ago, Jethead said:

On my list of all-time Jets!

And one other Jet that doesn’t get mentioned is Dan Alexander. Good steady left guard who very rarely missed a start 

[Joe W. Namath]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

My money is on Moore dominating. Wilson in an awesome raw talent ... but sloppy in his route running as of now.

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Sloppy in his route running?  Raw talent?  Where do fans get this nonsense from?  

Wilson is nfl ready, a crisp route runner and is going to pay dividends right away.

[Dunnie]

Sloppy in his route running?  Raw talent?  Where do fans get this nonsense from?  
Wilson is nfl ready, a crisp route runner and is going to pay dividends right away.

Wrong ..

He often overstrides his plant foot during his breaks causing him to be less than perfect in the precision of his routes.

https://jetsxfactor.com/2022/04/14/garrett-wilson-raw-intriguing-wr-potential-ny-jets-film/

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[Joe W. Namath]

1 minute ago, Dunnie said:

Wrong ..

He often overstrides his plant foot during his breaks causing him to be less than perfect in the precision if his routes.

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HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA.  Ok.  I saw him at practice on Tuesday and he might be the best receiver on this team.  Saying he is raw and sloppy could not be further from the truth.

[Dunnie]

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA.  Ok.  I saw him at practice on Tuesday and he might be the best receiver on this team.  Saying he is raw and sloppy could not be further from the truth.

https://jetsxfactor.com/2022/04/14/garrett-wilson-raw-intriguing-wr-potential-ny-jets-film/

Educate yourself

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[Joe W. Namath]

2 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

https://jetsxfactor.com/2022/04/14/garrett-wilson-raw-intriguing-wr-potential-ny-jets-film/

Educate yourself

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I dont need to read anything whoever Joe Blewitt is wrote.  Ive seen him play in college and was there in person on Tuesday.  There is nothing raw and sloppy about him.  Raw and sloppy players dont get picked 10th in the draft.

[Dunnie]

I dont need to read anything whoever Joe Blewitt is wrote.  Ive seen him play in college and was there in person on Tuesday.  There is nothing raw and sloppy about him.  Raw and sloppy players dont get picked 10th in the draft.

Hope your right ... my money is on Moore

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[rangerous]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

My money is on Moore dominating. Wilson in an awesome raw talent ... but sloppy in his route running as of now.

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moore certainly looked good last season.  there's a reason why wilson was picked so high.

[FootballLove]

I love the hidden production that Joe Douglas has brought to the Jets!~

[Fantasy Island]

On 8/5/2022 at 3:45 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Oh right, I was the one who first mentioned McKnight.

You talk about potential and then only mention McKnight's High School star rating without addressing what I noted about collegiate production?  GTF outta here.  Not even close to the same level as NFL prospects, and that undermines everything else you're trying to argue about concerning the RB position.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotty_McKnight

There can be only one........

[BornJetsFan1983]

On 8/5/2022 at 9:15 AM, Doggin94it said:

OK, this is going to be a long one. But I was thinking today about how much better I feel about the Jets as a team versus at any time in the past decade plus, and I want to assess whether that's real or I'm fooling myself. To do that, let's go through the roster position group by position group, and compare it to what we had under Tannenbaum, Idzik, and Mac. To make the comparison tougher, we'll compare it against the best year (by record) for each GM: 2011 (11-5 for Tanny), 2013 (8-8 for Idzik), and 2015 (10-6 for Mac).

I'm going to leave the QBs for last, because why not.

RB/FB

2022 Breece Hall, Michael Carter, Tevin Coleman, Ty Johnson, LaMichal Perine, Bam Knight. Nick Bawden, Trevon Wesco

      The one-two punch at the top has a chance to give the team an elite running game. Carter alone is a very good back - not a game breaker, but does everything very well, smooth, professional. Reminds me a bit of Curtis Martin in that sense - different skill set, but you know what you're getting with him and the primary difference between their rookie stats is volume/durability and efficiency. Martin averaged 4ypc over nearly 400 carries, Carter 4.4 over 150. Carter had more receptions (36 to 30) and averaged slightly more yards per reception (9 to 8.7). I'm not saying Carter is Martin and durability/volume is a hell of a skill - but if Carter was our number 1 back, there'd be no shame in that and the concern would be whether he could hold up. 

      But he's not our number 1. Hall is, and while it's early in camp, he looks like he could be a game-breaker. Fast, strong, good vision, can catch, and early reports out of camp are he looks good. Can't ask for more than this. Johnson or Coleman as the No. 3 are fine; guys who are competent NFL players you don't want to see playing a large role but are good depth backups in case of injury. The FB situation is not great, but Bawden might be competent. Wesco will be cut.

2015 Chris Ivory, Bilal Powell, Stevan Ridley, Zac Stacy. Tommy Bohannon

    A low-end group at best. I was a fan of Ivory when we got him and he had a good year for us (little north of 4ypc, 1K), but he was a low end starter. Powell was a terrific backup RB but he absolutely was a backup - that was his ceiling. Ridley and Stacy were good depth - both had had success in the past and as emergency replacements in case of injury they were decent options. Bohannon was a waste. Nothing about this group scared anyone.

2013 Ivory, Powell, Alex Green, Mike Goodson. Bohannon.

    Same analysis for Ivory and Powell - this was the year we traded for Ivory and I can see what Idzik was going for here (all young with upside) but this is just terrible. Powell led the team with 697 yards.

2011 Shonn Greene, LaDanian Tomlinson, Powell, Joe McKnight. John Conner.

    Awful. Greene had a good year (a little north of 4.0 ypc, 1k), but Tomlinson was a shell of his former self (75 carries, 250yds), Powell was barely figuring things out as a rookie, and McKnight (RIP, still horrible what happened) was useless. Conner had a great name and no game. 

Overall: You take the 2022 group without hesitation. It's better at the top than any of the comparator groups, and it's got better depth than any of them except maybe at No. 4 RB in 2015 (I'll take Coleman over Ridley/Stacy)

WR

2022 Davis, Moore, Wilson, Berrios, Smith/Mims

    Gonna limit this to the top 5 for comparison's sake. I honestly love our WR group right now - it's a terrific mix of skill sets, body types, and speed - but it's missing a true No. 1. Moore has a chance to be that guy, and if he does this group is going to make real noise. The depth is outstanding - Berrios at 4 is absurd and either Smith or Mims would be a fine number 5 WR with functional upside. It can survive an injury to one of the top 3, and even be functional if two get hurt at the same time (a group of "Davis/Berrios/Smith" would be bad but not embarrassing and still has two at least passable starting WRs).

2015 Brandon Marshall, Eric Decker, Jeremy Kerley, Quincy Enunwa, Devin Smith, Kenbrell Thompkins, Chris Owusu

    This is a really strong group. Marshall was dominant in 2015, Decker was a very good No. 2, Kerley a very good No. 3. The depth suffered once you got past them (Enunwa hadn't shown anything yet, Smith never would, Thompkins was mediocre), but that top 3 was terrific and Enunwa had real talent (couldn't stay healthy though)

2013 Santonio Holmes, Stephen Hill, Kerley, Greg Salas

    I cut this off at 5 because 12 WRs saw time on the Jets active roster that season (who can forget the immortal Ryan Spadola?) which tells you what a sh*t-show this unit was. Holmes managed all of 23 catches that year; Kerley led the team with 43. Enough said.

2011 Holmes, Plaxico Burress, Derrick Mason, Kerley, Erron Riley, Patrick Turner

     Holmes and Burress (and Mason) were obviously big names, but didn't produce very much in a run-first offense helmed by Sanchez (Burress and Holmes combined for a good WR season at 96 Rec for ~1200 yards). The depth didn't exist.

Overall: Pick your preference - do you want the top end greatness provided by Marshall in 2015 or the overall group in 2022? For roster building purposes, I'd take the 2022 group (can't guarantee no injuries, so I'll give up a little top end upside for security against downside injury risk) but it's not crazy to prefer the 2015 group given how ridiculous Marshall was that year.

TE

2022 CJ Uzomah, Tyler Conklin, Jeremy Ruckert, Yeboah/Cager

    Do we even have to talk about this? This is the best and deepest TE group the team has had in years. Maybe ever, from a depth perspective. Each of the top 3 either has been or reasonably projects to be a very good starter in the NFL.

2015 Jeff Cumberland, Kellen Davis, Wes Saxton. 2013 Kellen Winslow, Jeff Cumberland, Zach Sudfeld, Konrad Reuland. 2011 Dustin Keller, Josh Baker, Jeff Cumberland, Matthew Mulligan

Overall: Yeah, I'm not even bothering with analysis of those groups, which each had a maximum of 1 NFL caliber player in them. 2022 and it's not debatable.

OL

2022 Fant, Tomlinson, McGovern, AVT, Becton, Mitchell, Edoga, McDermott, Feeney, Herbig

    Leaving out the deeper backups, this is a good OL group with real concerns at depth OT and the durability of the starting OTs, which isn't a good combination. If everyone's healthy this should be a top 15-top 10 type OL; the interior is elite, Fant was one of the better pass blockers in the league last year, and Becton has all-world upside. Feeney and Herbig are terrific depth inside, but it's hold-your-breath time if Mitchell or Edoga need to see any time at OT. McDermott is faceplanting in camp and will likely be cut; I would not be surprised to see an addition to this group once other teams start cutting players.

2015 Brick, James Carpenter, Mangold, Willie Colon, Brenno Giacomini, Brian Winters, Brett Qvale, Dakota Dozier, Wesley Johnson, Tanner Purdum 

   4-across, this line is amazing. Brick and Mangold are HoF caliber players, Carpenter and Colon were very very good starting guards in the NFL. But after that, dear god. Brenno goddamn Giacomini started games for this team. Brian Winters was the best available depth. You can't block a pass rush with 4 players. Hot garbage.

2013 Brick, Winters, Mangold, Colon, Austin Howard, Vlad Ducasse, Purdum, Caleb Schlauderoff

   Again, we have a 4-man line, with Winters as a rookie playing a barely competent LG, and no depth. Hot garbage

2011 Brick, Matt Slauson, Mangold, Brandon Moore, Wayne Hunter, Ducasse, Purdum, Robert Turner, Schlauderoff, Colin Baxter

     OK, at least this time we're 5-across; IIRC, this was the year Hunter actually played a competent tackle. Slauson was a competent OG and Moore is vastly underrated - a terrific player.  But ZERO depth

Overall: Again, I don't think this is a close question. Brick and Mangold are all-timers, but the best "fifth man" on any of those lines was Wayne Hunter, and the backups are not NFL-caliber players. Even with the questions at OT on the 2022 team (health for Fant and Becton), if you force me to roll with one of those groups it's going to be this year's

DL

2022: Carl Lawson, Quinnen Williams, Sheldon Rankins, John Franklin Myers, Jermaine Johnson II, Bryce Huff, Jacob Martin, Vinny Curry, Jonathon Marshall, Nathan Sheppard, Solomon Thomas, Michael Clemmons

     That's 12 guys, some of whom are going to have to be cut (likely Curry and Sheppard if I had to handicap it today), and I left out other depth guys currently on the roster. I've got some concern about run-stuffing DT and high-end pass rush (need Lawson to be that guy) but this is a deep, skilled, and versatile group.

2015: Calvin Pace, Quinton Coples, Mike Catapano, Stephen Bowen, Leonard Williams, Sheldon Richardson, Muhammad Wilkerson, Damon Harrison, Leger Douzable, TJ Barnes

     Pro football reference has guys like Pace and Coples listed at DE, though they were technically 3-4 LBs. Since the D has changed, it's easiest to compare the groups this way, so I'll run with it. The 2015 DL had an embarrassment of high-end riches: top draft picks (Wilkerson, Williams, and Richardson) and a UDFA who developed into the best run-stuffer in the NFL (Harrison). Douzable was a very good backup, Catapano was an energy guy, Bowen was competent. Pace was a good edge setter. This was a good group, Mac's horrific misallocation of resources and Wilkerson's complete disappearing act aside, but it had no real pass rush threat, even from the 3-4 OLBs.

2013 Pace, Coples, Wilkerson, Richardson, Harrison, Douzable, Kenrick Ellis, Scott Solomon

    Basically the same group, just with Ellis instead of Williams and Solomon as the deeper depth guy. Still no pass rush, still an elite 3-4 DL with Wilk, Richardson, and Harrison, still a misallocation of resources.

2011 Bryan Thomas, Pace, Wilkerson, Ellis, Sione Pouha, Ropati Pitoitua, Jamaal Westerman, Mike DeVito, Martin Tevaseu, Aaron Maybin, Marcus Dixon, Eddie Jones

     Thomas got a lot of grief for not being a top pass rusher and for not being Ed Reed, but he was a good player. Pouha was an elite nose by then, and Wilkerson was about to have a terrific rookie year. DeVito was a very good lunch-pail guy.

Overall: Again, to me, it's 2022 and not close. For all the assets poured into that 2015 DL, it still generated no pass rush and we had no room to play our 4 best guys at the same time. The depth in 2022 is much, much better than any of those other years, and the top-end pass rush is at least as good.

LB

2022 CJ Mosely, Quincy Williams, Kwon Alexander, Jamien Sherwood, Hamsa Nasirildeen, Marcel Harris, Del'Shawn Phillips, DQ Thomas

    The LB group is one of the real concerns on this team, though adding Alexander was big. Mosely is overpaid but still a very good player. Williams played well last year, let's see how he does. The depth is an abomination; if any of those top 3 get hurt we'll be hoping for huge growth out of Sherwood/Nasirildeen to just reach "mediocre LB"

2015 David Harris, Demarrio Davis, Erin Henderson, Lorenzo Mauldin, Jamarri Lattimore, TJ Reilly

    Again, Pace really belongs in this group, and it's hard to compare a 4-3 LB group to a 3-4 group. Harris is an all-time Jet (on the downside of his career by then, but still), Henderson was a competent vet. Davis was not yet good, and nobody else in this group ever would be.

2013 Harris, Davis, Ricky Sapp, Antwan Barnes, Nick Bellore, Jermaine Cunningham, Troy Davis, Garrett McIntyre

     This group is a dumpster fire; aside from Harris, the best players are a not-yet-good Demarrio Davis and Nick Bellore, who was such a good LB that he transitioned to FB a few years later. Again, Pace and Coples were the OLBs so it wasn't a total disaster, but ... not great, Bob!

2011 Harris, Bart Scott, McIntyre, Bellore, Josh Mauga

    Now that's a good group. Harris and Scott were elite ILBs paired with Thomas and Pace on the outside. This was a punishing LB group. No depth, though.

Overall: It's a closer question than I expected it to be given how light that 2011 group is behind the 4 starters, and it's not like you could transition them into this system. But as a group, I'll take 2011 over 2022.

CB

2022 Gardner, Reed, Hall, Carter, Echols, Guidry, Dunn

   This is a good, good group - what a change from last year. Carter's a terrific slot CB, Guidry is good depth behind him. Reed was a good FA signing and a solid No. 2 CB, while Gardner looks like he's going to be a real one. Hall and Echols were starting last year and are elite depth pieces. It's missing a lockdown number 1 right now, but maybe it isn't. We'll see.

2015 Darelle Revis, Antonio Cromartie, Buster Skrine, Marcus Williams, Dee Milliner, Dex McDougle, Darrin Walls

    The shells of Revis and Cromartie, Skrine the penalty machine, Milliner and McDougle in the trainer's room. Revis was OK that year but nowhere near the elite CB he was in prior years. Decent starters, terrible depth.

2013 Cro, Milliner, Walls, Kyle Wilson, Isaiah Trufant, Ellis Lankster

     Avert your eyes, this is ugly as sin. Cro was still a top-tier CB at that point, but he was the only NFL player at the position

2011 Revis, Cro, Brodney Pool, Wilson, Trufant, Lankster, Marquice Cole

    That's what I'm talking about. The depth is terrible but that doesn't matter as much when you have prime Revis and Cro locking down WRs 1-on-1; it gave Rex the ability to roll coverages to help on other players.

Overall: Give me 2011 because of just how crazy elite Revis and Cro were, but 3-6 2022 crushes the 2011 group and it's not a discussion.

S

2022 LaMarcus Joyner, Jordan Whitehead, Ashtyn Davis, Jason Pinnock, Elijah Riley, Will Parks

    Another area of concern - Whitehead is a good player and Joyner was elite a few years ago but our starters are low-end, overall, and our depth is a mix of unproven and unexpected. If Pinnock can keep growing that'll help, but Davis has been a disappointment and Riley and Parks are in the "nice story, who?" category.

2015 Calvin Pryor, Rontez Miles, Dion Bailey, Ronald Martin, Marcus Gilchrist, Jaiqwan Jarrett

    Ouch. This is a terrible group.

2013 Ed Reed, Dawan Landry, Antonio Allen, Jarrett, Josh Bush

    Not terrible. Reed was a shell of his former self but Allen and Landry were passable players, as were Bush and Jarrett.

2011  Jim Leonhard, Eric Smith, Emmanuel Cook, Tracy Wilson

     Leonhard and Smith were try-hard players underappreciated while they were here, but nothing particularly terrifying for opposing QBs. Depth was non-existent.

Overall: Can't believe I'm saying this but the 2022 group is the best of all of these. Wow ... was not expecting that when I started looking. 2013 has a similar lack of high-end players and worse depth, and same for 2011.

ST

2022 Hennessey, Mann, Zeurlein/Piniero, Berrios, Hardee

     Hennesey is an excellent long snapper and Mann is a competent punter. The K situation is obviously a huge concern. Berrios is a terrific return guy and Hardee an elite gunner, but also I doubt he makes the team.

2015 Purdum, Weatherford/Quigley, Folk/Bullock

     Fine at LS, kicker was good. Punter was fine. 

2013 Purdum, Folk, Quigley

    Quigley was terrible. Folk was very good.

2011 Purdum, Folk, TJ Conley

    Conley was terrible, Folk was excellent

Overall: I'll take 2011 if forced to choose - better a mediocre to bad punter than a mediocre to bad kicker - but if we can get competent kicking this year from one of Zeurlein or Pineiro it'll be 2022.

QB

2022 Zach, Flacco, White

     This has been talked to death; this season turns on what Wilson ends up as. Backups are as good as could be asked for.

2015 Fitz, Geno

     Carried only 2 QBs and Fitz had a magical season. 

2013 Geno, Matt Simms

     I don't want to talk about it.

2011 Sanchez, Brunnell

     Sanchez was where Zach is this year - the high draft pick whose development would be the key to the year. He ended up playing decent enough as a caretaker QB to get regular season wins, but not good enough to finish the job. Brunell was a 41 year old statue

Overall: The only question is whether you take Sanchez's known floor over Zach's potential (and potential collapse), but overall the 2022 QB room is the best of these.

 

What's my takeaway on all of this? Joe Douglas has done an outstanding job, and for the first time in forever we're fielding a full NFL team. The depth on this roster is crazy, and there are few true holes (run stuffing DT? LB depth? True No. 1 WR/CB?). Outcomes this year turn on Wilson, but position group for position group I'll take this 2022 roster ahead of the 2011 team that went 11-5, and there's no reason Wilson can't be at least as good this year as Sanchez was in 2011. This is a goooood roster.

 

Great post even is I disagree I think this is a great exercise to see where anyone actually thinks the team is . Great post. 

For the record I take fitzmagic over all qbs we have ever had other than Namath.

Loved that season and that guy! Haha..j/k go Zach attack

 

[BornJetsFan1983]

13 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

Agree 100% with playing the Comp game. But other than Fant, we don’t have the horses to take advantage of this game. 

Taking a look at where things stand moving into the season JD has the following options

George Fant: Do you extend him or let him walk for a big money payday ($16-$18m) or play the Comp game and slide Becton to LT & draft a RT next year? 

Kwon Alexander: Depending on how he plays this year, I can see JD extending him if he plays well  

JD will be looking to make the playoffs next year by supplementing our young talent with key vets in FA.  A 3rd round Comp pick in ‘24 isn’t reason enough to pass on FA next year  
 

Cutting CJ, Davis, Lawson next season could save us $40m in Cap Space but I believe that JD will look to renegotiate their deals especially if they play well, which I expect  them to  

 

 

Lawson won't go anywhere if he is a presence in the back field this year.

[Jetsfan80]

13 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotty_McKnight

There can be only one........

Hayden.  ??

[UntouchableCrew]

Thoughtful write-up.

I'm a little less inclined to declare this OL what you are or to pick this WR group over a Marshall/Decker 1-2 punch that was as productive as it was but I generally agree with your premise and the direction of the franchise.