General Draft/Prospect news

[Rhg1084]

45 minutes ago, section314 said:

Won’t get past Eagles at 10

They just resigned Fletcher Cox and drafted Jordan Davis last year 

[chirorob]

3 hours ago, football guy said:

Douglas typically does not like to draft players with questionable character and work ethic. But given what’s happened in free agency thus far + Carter’s projected fall, really starting to wonder if they’ll submit a card with his name on it in April. 

Their locker room is a great environment. They’ve flipped the culture. They have a “win-now” mindset. You would think we’d be a good fit for him. If Peter Skoronski is there I think he’d still be the pick, but this Jalen Carter stuff is worth following

Assuming the Jets don't have a second rounder in the draft, who plays o line if they go D tackle.

[Lith]

 

[Beerfish]

His legal issue  a bit of red flag

His combine and pro day thing, huge red flag. 

Lith can correct me if I am wrong did he not already have an issue with conditioning in the past?

Some team will take him relatively high but I would not touch the player.

[Lith]

13 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

His legal issue  a bit of red flag

His combine and pro day thing, huge red flag. 

Lith can correct me f I am wrong did he not already have an issue with conditioning in the past?

Someone team will take him relatively high but I would not touch the player.

I think the conditioning knocks on the Dawgs were overblown.  We play a heavy DL rotation, so there are concerns since these guys generally do not play more than 50% - 60% of defensive snaps.  But the only game where there was this narrative about coniditining was the loss in the SEC Championship in 21 against Bama, and from what I heard, there was a non-covid illness running through the team in that game.

But I do agree with you -- the legal issue has kind of gone away.  He was stupid and reckless, but not criminally stupid and restless.  But showing up for your pro day out of shape and overweight is a really bad look.  Especially just two weeks after the COmbine.  How do you let that happen.  I expect him to drop on draft day.  And if he drops to us, let him keep dropping.

[Phillyjet]

54 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

His legal issue  a bit of red flag

His combine and pro day thing, huge red flag. 

Lith can correct me f I am wrong did he not already have an issue with conditioning in the past?

Someone team will take him relatively high but I would not touch the player.

Guys with motivation issues generally don't work out.  You feel great when you draft them, but they generally bust in the pros.  Witness Quentin Coples.  Gotta have the motivation to have a long successful career.  Can deal with some of the character stuff if the love of the game is there. 

[section314]

2 hours ago, Lith said:

 

What a shocker.?

[chirorob]

2 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

Guys with motivation issues generally don't work out.  You feel great when you draft them, but they generally bust in the pros.  Witness Quentin Coples.  Gotta have the motivation to have a long successful career.  Can deal with some of the character stuff if the love of the game is there. 

If you're not motivated before you yet paid, you sire as hell won't be motivated after you get paid.

[win4ever]

The Jalen Carter one is so intriguing to me.  I hope he drops, and some team trades up for him, so we can get more picks.  I like the talent, but investing heavily in Q, and then dropping a first rd pick on a DT seems excessive when we have more needs.  I'd rather go OL/CB/Edge as of now.  Prior to all of these issues, I think Carter would have been the exception, but just too many red flags right now.  

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

18 hours ago, win4ever said:

The Jalen Carter one is so intriguing to me.  I hope he drops, and some team trades up for him, so we can get more picks.  I like the talent, but investing heavily in Q, and then dropping a first rd pick on a DT seems excessive when we have more needs.  I'd rather go OL/CB/Edge as of now.  Prior to all of these issues, I think Carter would have been the exception, but just too many red flags right now.  

I just don't think it's worth the risk right now. You're in a Superbowl window. You NEED to hit on these guys. We're not riding the coat tails of a Patrick Mahommes where we can swing on risky prospects and still be OK. Just take OL and get out of there. 

[Paradis]

Value meets pick lens: this guy could very well wind up being the steal of the RB draft

 

[Beerfish]

What is the medical exclusion?  what was his injury?

[Chrebetfan80]

On 3/16/2023 at 3:26 PM, win4ever said:

The Jalen Carter one is so intriguing to me.  I hope he drops, and some team trades up for him, so we can get more picks.  I like the talent, but investing heavily in Q, and then dropping a first rd pick on a DT seems excessive when we have more needs.  I'd rather go OL/CB/Edge as of now.  Prior to all of these issues, I think Carter would have been the exception, but just too many red flags right now.  

tantalizing talent, but i think I would pass as well.  trading down seems to be the best option to add more talent.  There really arent many blue chip prospects in this draft, and yes while we could add a big time Tackle at 13, I think we could also nab on in the 20s possible.  

We do need DT depth but I feel there are some good prospects that can be had in round 2/3 that we could maybe take a peek at instead of investing 13 overall on someone. 

[win4ever]

2 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

tantalizing talent, but i think I would pass as well.  trading down seems to be the best option to add more talent.  There really arent many blue chip prospects in this draft, and yes while we could add a big time Tackle at 13, I think we could also nab on in the 20s possible.  

We do need DT depth but I feel there are some good prospects that can be had in round 2/3 that we could maybe take a peek at instead of investing 13 overall on someone. 

Yeah, I'm kinda hoping they trade down as well because I don't really love this draft.  It has some guys I really like at RB, TE, and IDL but those don't really match our needs.  I just think it's wiser to wait for next year's crop or just hoard picks.  Although, judging from some of the player for picks trades, I don't know if this year's picks are valued as high.  

I'm still looking at the Saints as a possible trade down, albeit less likely now that they got their QB.  But Saints and Chargers intrigue me right now.   

[BCJet]

8 hours ago, win4ever said:

Yeah, I'm kinda hoping they trade down as well because I don't really love this draft.  It has some guys I really like at RB, TE, and IDL but those don't really match our needs.  I just think it's wiser to wait for next year's crop or just hoard picks.  Although, judging from some of the player for picks trades, I don't know if this year's picks are valued as high.  

I'm still looking at the Saints as a possible trade down, albeit less likely now that they got their QB.  But Saints and Chargers intrigue me right now.   

I think there are some good LBs, IOL and we really need a DT which also seems like something we can find in this draft.

As for carter, Todd McShay was on Rusillo's podcast and went in depth talking about carter.  Basically mcshay took a lot of heat for criticizing Carter's character.  He explained that he tries to be really thorough with the character stuff with any prospect because they are young kids sometimes with difficult backgrounds. He said he roots for all of them, carter included, to mature if there are issues in college.  With respect to carter he said there are issues outside of the car issue - late to meetings etc. and that he has confirmed it with multiple sources.

Its really hard because these kids are so young but if he could get it together, he and QW could be monsters for 4 years.

[win4ever]

On 3/21/2023 at 7:38 PM, BCJet said:

I think there are some good LBs, IOL and we really need a DT which also seems like something we can find in this draft.

As for carter, Todd McShay was on Rusillo's podcast and went in depth talking about carter.  Basically mcshay took a lot of heat for criticizing Carter's character.  He explained that he tries to be really thorough with the character stuff with any prospect because they are young kids sometimes with difficult backgrounds. He said he roots for all of them, carter included, to mature if there are issues in college.  With respect to carter he said there are issues outside of the car issue - late to meetings etc. and that he has confirmed it with multiple sources.

Its really hard because these kids are so young but if he could get it together, he and QW could be monsters for 4 years.

I've read some stuff online (ok, Reddit, so take it with some salt) that Carter had maturity issues well before the car incident, it's just that he was such a dominant force that it got swept under the rug.  I remember hearing Isiah Wilson (Titans OL first rd pick a few years ago from Georgia as well) had similar concerns and flamed out spectacularly.  

On the field, I think him and QW next to Lawson/JJ/Huff and others could be a nasty front.  However, I feel like it might be too much of a risk.   

@Chrebetfan80 On a side note, JSN apparently ran 4.48 to 4.52 today, so I'm assuming he's now cemented in the first round.  With the Hardman move, I think Dell is off the table for us as well.  I'm still on Jayden Reed though.  I'm guessing they are skipping WRs in this draft.  

 

[Chrebetfan80]

11 hours ago, win4ever said:

I've read some stuff online (ok, Reddit, so take it with some salt) that Carter had maturity issues well before the car incident, it's just that he was such a dominant force that it got swept under the rug.  I remember hearing Isiah Wilson (Titans OL first rd pick a few years ago from Georgia as well) had similar concerns and flamed out spectacularly.  

On the field, I think him and QW next to Lawson/JJ/Huff and others could be a nasty front.  However, I feel like it might be too much of a risk.   

@Chrebetfan80 On a side note, JSN apparently ran 4.48 to 4.52 today, so I'm assuming he's now cemented in the first round.  With the Hardman move, I think Dell is off the table for us as well.  I'm still on Jayden Reed though.  I'm guessing they are skipping WRs in this draft.  

 

JSN will be the first WR off the board I believe.  He's just the most pro ready.  Dell has climbed boards for sure, I love the kids game honestly both would be great here but with the recent events, and probably more signings to come, i doubt that we draft a WR this year.  Possibly next. 

Interestingly, just quickly perusing the board, I find it odd that people are down on the Hardman signing.  Obvioulsy coming at the expense of Moore (who i was bullish on predraft) sucks, I thought Moore would have blossomed this year with Rodgers throwing to him.  But I cannot minimize the impact a Hardman can have on this offense.  We have been begging for a "take the top off" type of talent at the WR position, and Hardmans speed is very legit. It was a big reason as to why the Chiefs felt good letting Hill go last year.  Hackett presents more of a vertical offense than Lafleur did so i expect that these moves (Lazard who is the BIG BODY WR who can go up and get a ball, and now Hardman who can take the top off) we will see a lot more openings for guys like Wilson, and possibly OBJ underneath. 

[win4ever]

12 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

JSN will be the first WR off the board I believe.  He's just the most pro ready.  Dell has climbed boards for sure, I love the kids game honestly both would be great here but with the recent events, and probably more signings to come, i doubt that we draft a WR this year.  Possibly next. 

Interestingly, just quickly perusing the board, I find it odd that people are down on the Hardman signing.  Obvioulsy coming at the expense of Moore (who i was bullish on predraft) sucks, I thought Moore would have blossomed this year with Rodgers throwing to him.  But I cannot minimize the impact a Hardman can have on this offense.  We have been begging for a "take the top off" type of talent at the WR position, and Hardmans speed is very legit. It was a big reason as to why the Chiefs felt good letting Hill go last year.  Hackett presents more of a vertical offense than Lafleur did so i expect that these moves (Lazard who is the BIG BODY WR who can go up and get a ball, and now Hardman who can take the top off) we will see a lot more openings for guys like Wilson, and possibly OBJ underneath. 

Yeah, with his performance in the agility drill, and doing good at the 40, he's pretty much locked in.  What do you feel about Addison?  I was somewhat surprised how close him and Jayden Reed tested out at, been thinking maybe he starts to slip a bit.  However, yeah, I think we're pretty much done with WRs in this draft unless it's a late pick.  Or someone that they had a really high grade on just drops.   I'm presuming Davis goes in a deal, so Wilson/Lazard/Hardman/Mims with a FA addition possibility.   Any additional FA would basically leave no room.   I think next year is almost a guarantee, because Hardman/Mims would both be free agents unless extended.  

I like the Hardman signing, my only hesitation is that he didn't thrive with a HoF QB, and a HoF coach who is specializing in offense.  I think he fits a lot better than people assume in the offense, because we need to go more vertical.  He allows us to manipulate the safeties much better, and he plays the outside.  While he's seen as a gadget guy, he's not really that far off from a guy like Addison in terms of height/weight.  To me, he plays the MVS role with Rodgers, a guy that gets about 2-3 deep shots a game from Rodgers, and then screen game.  He became redundant in KC because MVS basically provides the same role.  I think him playing on the outside is a big factor that is overlooked, because if Berrios stood on the outside, you can pretty much guarantee a WR screen.  Hardman lining up outside, moves the safeties because he's comfortable running routes from the outside, which allows for other routes to open.  He's not perfect, his route stems seem somewhat basic, but I like the chess piece aspect of it, with a QB like Rodgers.  

[Chrebetfan80]

10 hours ago, win4ever said:

Yeah, with his performance in the agility drill, and doing good at the 40, he's pretty much locked in.  What do you feel about Addison?  I was somewhat surprised how close him and Jayden Reed tested out at, been thinking maybe he starts to slip a bit.  However, yeah, I think we're pretty much done with WRs in this draft unless it's a late pick.  Or someone that they had a really high grade on just drops.   I'm presuming Davis goes in a deal, so Wilson/Lazard/Hardman/Mims with a FA addition possibility.   Any additional FA would basically leave no room.   I think next year is almost a guarantee, because Hardman/Mims would both be free agents unless extended.  

I like the Hardman signing, my only hesitation is that he didn't thrive with a HoF QB, and a HoF coach who is specializing in offense.  I think he fits a lot better than people assume in the offense, because we need to go more vertical.  He allows us to manipulate the safeties much better, and he plays the outside.  While he's seen as a gadget guy, he's not really that far off from a guy like Addison in terms of height/weight.  To me, he plays the MVS role with Rodgers, a guy that gets about 2-3 deep shots a game from Rodgers, and then screen game.  He became redundant in KC because MVS basically provides the same role.  I think him playing on the outside is a big factor that is overlooked, because if Berrios stood on the outside, you can pretty much guarantee a WR screen.  Hardman lining up outside, moves the safeties because he's comfortable running routes from the outside, which allows for other routes to open.  He's not perfect, his route stems seem somewhat basic, but I like the chess piece aspect of it, with a QB like Rodgers.  

Yea I think the 40 was the one concern maybe you could have coming in, can he be explosive enough to push the ball deep down field?  4.4 will make a lot of people feel better about a top 20 pick on him.  I like addison a lot actually, I think he showed more at Pitt than he did this year at USC honestly, but for a while i thought he may be the first WR picked (he still may be honestly, but I have a feeling it will be JSN).  Both are very polished products obviously, great route stems, great break points.  I think Addison is probably a little more dynamic in terms of RAC but i think JSN is a little more well rounded in terms of his strength and blocking.  I could see a GM building a team favoring one flavor over the other either way. 

Yea Hardman hasnt lived up to that 2nd rd pick billing but I think that he represents something the jets have lacked for a while (outside of a short stint with robbie anderson).  The offense hasnt had someone with true speed in a while and I think, as you stated, his ability to line up inside and outside presents teams with a dilemma.  Especially considering you can move Wilson and Lazard around too.  Now if you sign OBJ you can really get creative in terms of who is inside, outside, motioning across or short motion.  It just allows a TON of flexibility to the passing game.   Also great point with the MVS role that rodgers took advantage of in green bay.  Hardman is a cheaper version that will provide the same type of aspect for Rodgers on top of being adept in the run game (which will help in the redzone a TON). 

[Chrebetfan80]

Also ill put this here..

 

I've been told the jets had a VERY good meeting with Trey Palmer yesterday. 

[maury77]

48 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Also ill put this here..

 

I've been told the jets had a VERY good meeting with Trey Palmer yesterday. 

What do you think of Palmer as a prospect?

[Chrebetfan80]

18 minutes ago, maury77 said:

What do you think of Palmer as a prospect?

I liked palmer as a mid round guy who could help take the top off for us.  Ran a 4.33 at the combine which is great, and nebraska used him in a lot of ways to take advantage of his speed.  I thought once we cut berrios he would be a nice replacement who also fit the size we've been looking at in wrs (around 6-6'2 and 190-195 lbs).  He's obviously not perfect, played mostly in the slot and his breakpoints need work.  A lot of times when i watched his film and he's trying to drop the top into curls and comebacks but takes 4-5 steps to get out of breaks. It worked in college alot because DB's were scared of him flying by them, but in the NFL guys will stick to him tighter and he needs to get out in 3 steps on those routes. 

I would guess they scheduled the meeting before they knew they had hardmon signed so i would think now with him in the fold the need for palmer is less. 

[win4ever]

12 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Yea I think the 40 was the one concern maybe you could have coming in, can he be explosive enough to push the ball deep down field?  4.4 will make a lot of people feel better about a top 20 pick on him.  I like addison a lot actually, I think he showed more at Pitt than he did this year at USC honestly, but for a while i thought he may be the first WR picked (he still may be honestly, but I have a feeling it will be JSN).  Both are very polished products obviously, great route stems, great break points.  I think Addison is probably a little more dynamic in terms of RAC but i think JSN is a little more well rounded in terms of his strength and blocking.  I could see a GM building a team favoring one flavor over the other either way. 

Yea Hardman hasnt lived up to that 2nd rd pick billing but I think that he represents something the jets have lacked for a while (outside of a short stint with robbie anderson).  The offense hasnt had someone with true speed in a while and I think, as you stated, his ability to line up inside and outside presents teams with a dilemma.  Especially considering you can move Wilson and Lazard around too.  Now if you sign OBJ you can really get creative in terms of who is inside, outside, motioning across or short motion.  It just allows a TON of flexibility to the passing game.   Also great point with the MVS role that rodgers took advantage of in green bay.  Hardman is a cheaper version that will provide the same type of aspect for Rodgers on top of being adept in the run game (which will help in the redzone a TON). 

Yeah, I think JSN goes first at this point, he was in the conversation before the 40, and he ran a lot faster than I expected.  I'm not the biggest fan of pro-day times, as they tend to be a bit faster.  However, his tape as well as the physical traits just push him over the edge at this point.   I really liked Addison's tape, especially his aggressiveness to catch the ball and shield the defender with his body.  There was a part of me that explored maybe we go WR at some point, but that seems to have passed now.  Thanks, yeah, I kept trying to find a spot on Addison because he's been somewhat quiet in the combine news.   I just can't seem to get a good read on the order in this draft, guys (besides JSN) don't seem to be separating as much as I expected.  

Yeah, I'm pretty excited about the added element, especially because we for some reason didn't really go deep as much as we should have.  Part of it is the OL issues, but we never seemed to threaten the safeties much at all.  He allows for depth outside and inside, which is something we need especially if someone like OBJ is on board.  

8 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Also ill put this here..

 

I've been told the jets had a VERY good meeting with Trey Palmer yesterday. 

I looked into him before the Hardman signing, and loved him as a deep threat.  Nebraska's offense sucked, and the QB sucked as well, but this guy was constantly open.  Although since he blazed the combine, I kinda put him on the back burner because we might not be picking WR much at all.  

He kinda reminded me of Will Fuller, where he just had a second gear down the field.  I didn't like his route tree, but put him on the outside, and he should be one of those dynamic No. 2/3 types that wreck havoc on safeties.  

 

[sec101row23]

This has to be one of the most uninspiring drafts in a while.   I just can’t get into it this year.   I wouldn’t blame JD if he traded away a bunch of picks this year for future picks or players.   

[win4ever]

14 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

This has to be one of the most uninspiring drafts in a while.   I just can’t get into it this year.   I wouldn’t blame JD if he traded away a bunch of picks this year for future picks or players.   

I don't know if it's the lack of top 10 pick, or just prospect fatigue but I can't bring myself to go deep dive like usual.  I got some All-22 from my usual guy, but I really haven't looked at much.  Maybe post draft, I'll get into the guys we pick.  

Like I took a look at JSN and my God, Marvin Harrison Jr jumps out.  He has size, speed, route running, good hands.  He's basically Justin Jefferson with a better body.  

[section314]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

This has to be one of the most uninspiring drafts in a while.   I just can’t get into it this year.   I wouldn’t blame JD if he traded away a bunch of picks this year for future picks or players.   

When the QB’s are not good, it definitely puts a damper on the rest of the draft.

[Chrebetfan80]

14 hours ago, win4ever said:

I don't know if it's the lack of top 10 pick, or just prospect fatigue but I can't bring myself to go deep dive like usual.  I got some All-22 from my usual guy, but I really haven't looked at much.  Maybe post draft, I'll get into the guys we pick.  

Like I took a look at JSN and my God, Marvin Harrison Jr jumps out.  He has size, speed, route running, good hands.  He's basically Justin Jefferson with a better body.  

If you love WR play, marvin harrison jr film is clinic tape. Its fantastic, thats a kid that you take and not worry at all about him producing at the next level. 

[derp]

13 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

If you love WR play, marvin harrison jr film is clinic tape. Its fantastic, thats a kid that you take and not worry at all about him producing at the next level. 

Feel like he’s going to be the first traditional top 5 pick big #1 WR to come out since 2011. Such a great run from 2003-2011 with Andre Johnson, Fitzgerald, Megatron, Green, and Julio. I thought it was normal to get one of those guys every couple of years and turns out it was not at all. Though I do think the rule changes have made the 6’ to 6’2 type who can run routes more valuable than when guys could just get mugged in the secondary.

[sec101row23]

20 hours ago, section314 said:

When the QB’s are not good, it definitely puts a damper on the rest of the draft.

Agreed.   But it’s also that there just isn’t that many true blue chip prospects.   When you look at the premium position groups ( Edge, WR, CB, OT) there just isn’t a lot to get excited about.   

[Augustiniak]

7 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.   But it’s also that there just isn’t that many true blue chip prospects.   When you look at the premium position groups ( Edge, WR, CB, OT) there just isn’t a lot to get excited about.   

This year is a lunchpail meat and potatoes draft for the jets.  OT, C, LB, maybe S/cb.  

[Chrebetfan80]

22 hours ago, derp said:

Feel like he’s going to be the first traditional top 5 pick big #1 WR to come out since 2011. Such a great run from 2003-2011 with Andre Johnson, Fitzgerald, Megatron, Green, and Julio. I thought it was normal to get one of those guys every couple of years and turns out it was not at all. Though I do think the rule changes have made the 6’ to 6’2 type who can run routes more valuable than when guys could just get mugged in the secondary.

Yea I agree, aside from Chase a few years ago, MHJr will most likely be a top 5 pick at WR.  Dudes just flat out that good.

Just like anything, football catches up with trends. When Julio, Johnson, Calvin, Green were coming out the NFL corners were generally smaller, so having big fast bodies that could go up and get the ball were at a premium.  Those guys came in with great speed, height, and route running ability and feasted on smaller defensive backs.  Now, we're seeing a lot more corners with length, guys coming out at 6'1 6'2 or in sauces case 6'3 with great length.  The premium now has been on guys that can get out of breaks in less steps. 6'0-6'2 is a sweet spot for guys that can be in that 195-200 range, run a good 40, have a body type that an hold up to the NFL game and also drop their hips to get out of their breaks.  Route running is the premium now, its much harder with how talented defensive players are to just win with physical traits. 

[T0mShane]

Who do you guys use for your draft analysis? It seems like, especially this year, Draft Twitter is terrible, and even the “pros” have gone mealy-mouthed about everyone. The only guy I’ve heard or read that’s providing anything of substance is Dane Brugler. 

[OilfieldJet]

20 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

This year is a lunchpail meat and potatoes draft for the jets.  OT, C, LB, maybe S/cb.  

Nothing the matter with this.

[section314]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Who do you guys use for your draft analysis? It seems like, especially this year, Draft Twitter is terrible, and even the “pros” have gone mealy-mouthed about everyone. The only guy I’ve heard or read that’s providing anything of substance is Dane Brugler. 

I really like DJ the best. Others I find helpful because they actually balance flaws and strengths are Zuerlin and Bleacher Report.

[Chrebetfan80]

I'm starting to get the feeling that we wont be picking at 13.  A lot of the people I talk to have been getting the sense that trading down seems more and more likely. 

Credit where it is due... I know others on the board have hinted at this but I think its good intel based on what I have heard as well.  The Giants are particularly hot and heavy for JSN and looking to trade up.  I think this could be a deal to look at as a likely landing spot. 

Giants pick 25.  Not saying this trade will happen, just getting the sense talking to people that there is a lot of interest in 1) the Jets moving down and 2) the Giants moving up so im doing a little bit of projecting on my own part and connecting the dots from my own information to the exact trade scenario others here have posted. 

We've all been busy looking at prospects to draft at 13, might be time we shift gears and start looking at that mid 20's landing spot.