Let's talk about our defense and coaching

[JohnnyLV]

I see tons of comments lauding Saleh and Ulbrich for their defensive coaching, but is it really that great? 

I don't think it is. In fact I think if anything our defensive is being minimized coaching.

Sauce, Reed and MC2 is the best Top 3 CB tandem in the NFL by quite a wide margin. Even being super conservative, they are a Top 3 CB and Top 20 CB and a Top 3 Nickel.

What do we do? Play mostly zone with set sides for each.

Sauce is basically Mevi$ yet we totally neuter his effect by treating him like Richard Sherman. He should man up against the opponents top receiver every game like Revis was effectively eliminating their best receiving threat.

Then add to that the fact that we almost never blitz, and with this CB trio we should be blitzing a LOT. 

We have one of the best DT in football, yet we insist on rotating him and minimizing his impact. It's our "system"

We have very solid edge rushers in Huff, JJ JFM and Franklin Meyers but we do nothing creative with them. They just play the edge and rush 4. 

In fact there is nothing creative about our defense at all.  We just have the talent to overcome a passive vanilla scheme

People think we "adjust" in the 2nd half well, but really all we do is stop playing with a 10 yard cushion.

We also have to be the worst team in the NFL on 3rd and long. We are great at 3rd and 2 but 3rd and 12 we play ultra charmin soft and must give it up like 35% of the time.

I truly believe that with the secondary we have a head coach that leveraged that could have this defense performing much much better.

I HATE this staff. They are maybe the worst we have ever had. And the record backs that up. Secret: Rodgers is not a silver bullet that fixes everything. We will be looking for new coaching in roughly  368 days.

[Beerfish]

We have superior talent but a very predictable scheme.

[ASH1962]

The pathetic thing is, everyone else in the world sees this, except for one MAGA idiot. The cult leader & owner. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Drums]

Just now, Beerfish said:

We have superior talent but a very predictable scheme.

That’s the interesting thing. It’s so predictable that they know how teams will attack it. Dangerous game but when you have talent it works, when you don’t, it doesn’t. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

It’s a pretty darn good defense. But whatevs. 

[Drums]

Also, I wish the offensive side was able to develop players like the defense has. The offensive players have seemingly gotten worse in their time here while the reverse seems to be true about the defense. I disagree with this thread. 

[Kalcott]

I still don’t understand how sauce isn’t always opposite their best receiver!

[varjet]

I did another post on this. 

Out of all of the various components, or teams, or whatever you want to call it, of the Jets Football Organization, the defensive coaches are the most competent and capable.  GM, Scouting, Strength and Conditioning, Training, Offense, Equipment, Facilities, etc.  They got rid of the Cheerleaders.  

It is only downhill from there.  

[Joejet]

17 minutes ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

It’s a pretty darn good defense. But whatevs. 

I don’t think anyone is saying that it isn’t a good defense. The point is with some creativity it has the talent to be a top 5 defense.

[Adoni Beast]

The scheme is not designed to be complex but it's coached well. The Legion of Boom was a similar (if not identical) scheme that Pete Carrol ran and won a Super Bowl with.

I'm fine with the defense as I think while not "elite" is plenty good enough to win a Super Bowl with (if the offense did its part). I also like the way they're coached (DL rotation, don't wear down the corners too much, and get after that QB with less blitz). 

It's the offense and the overall ya know...."head coaching" that I have issues with Saleh.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

It will be very difficult for JD and Saleh to win back the trust of the players.  Once someone starts to look like a buffoon, it goes downhill quick.

 

[Bronx]

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

We need an OC and DC who know how to play chess … or poker.  We are getting beat even when we have the better hand.  

[Beerfish]

47 minutes ago, Drums said:

That’s the interesting thing. It’s so predictable that they know how teams will attack it. Dangerous game but when you have talent it works, when you don’t, it doesn’t. 

Cleveland beat us last game with their best WR out because they had the TE absolutely eviscerate our all pro linebacker all game, or at least until the 150 plus yards of damage had been done.

[Drums]

Just now, Beerfish said:

Cleveland beat us last game with their best WR out because they had the TE absolutely eviscerate our all pro linebacker all game, or at least until the 150 plus yards of damage had been done.

There were 17 turnovers in the first half between special teams and the offense. I am not blaming the defense for much that game. They weren’t perfect this year but they were fine. 

[Hex]

Jets defense would be top 3 if they had real coaching

[AZSOJ]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

We have superior talent but a very predictable scheme.

Which is what this system requires..... 

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 hour ago, Drums said:

Also, I wish the offensive side was able to develop players like the defense has. The offensive players have seemingly gotten worse in their time here while the reverse seems to be true about the defense. I disagree with this thread. 

Agree with this. Whatever criticisms people have of the Saleh regime, we do a good job of acquiring and developing defensive players.

For offensive players, joining the Jets is like drinking from the wrong cup at the end of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

[T0mShane]

It’s the quarterback. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

I have more confidence in Ulbrich than in Bobby Slogans, but yeah, it's hard to gauge Ulbrich's worth since he has plenty of talent to work with.

Tony Oden seems to be highly respected and worth his salt.

I mean the guy was able to get street FAs to hold down the fort against AJ Brown and DeVonta Smith.

Slogans is an absolute fraud. 

Barring some miraculous display of coaching acumen (and wins above expectation) next season, I'm confident in this assessment.

But whatever you think of Ulbrich, it's Hackett, Downing and Keith Carter (or maybe the entire offensive coaching staff, including Hackett's WR coach Azzani) who stick out like a sore thumb as the obvious flotsam that needs to go.

[Creepy Lurker]

13 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

I have more confidence in Ulbrich than in Bobby Slogans, but yeah, it's hard to gauge Ulbrich's worth since he has plenty of talent to work with.

Tony Oden seems to be highly respected and worth his salt.

I mean the guy was able to get street FAs to hold down the fort against AJ Brown and DeVonta Smith.

Slogans is an absolute fraud. 

Barring some miraculous display of coaching acumen (and wins above expectation) next season, I'm confident in this assessment.

But whatever you think of Ulbrich, it's Hackett, Downing and Keith Carter (or maybe the entire offensive coaching staff, including Hackett's WR coach Azzani) who stick out like a sore thumb as the obvious flotsam that needs to go.

It would be easy to gauge Salad and Ulbrich’s worth if JD purposely favored the offense with resources and had the defensive experts develop talent. Otherwise what the hell is the point of bringing them in? 

[usapaw]

1 hour ago, Joejet said:

I don’t think anyone is saying that it isn’t a good defense. The point is with some creativity it has the talent to be a top 5 defense.

But they need an offense to make this a reality. It's the Offense that is pure garbage.  

[Beerfish]

4 minutes ago, usapaw said:

But they need an offense to make this a reality. It's the Offense that is pure garbage.  

So lets draft a 25 year old developmental part time edge rusher.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, Creepy Lurker said:

It would be easy to gauge Salad and Ulbrich’s worth if JD purposely favored the offense with resources and had the defensive experts develop talent. Otherwise what the hell is the point of bringing them in? 

Exactly.  I'm getting a bit tired of how it's just assumed how good Saleh and Ulbrich are as defensive minds.  They have a lot of talent to work with so they SHOULD have a good defense.  Imo, they're only in the ballpark of "meets expectations".

[Creepy Lurker]

13 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Exactly.  I'm getting a bit tired of how it's just assumed how good Saleh and Ulbrich are as defensive minds.  They have a lot of talent to work with so they SHOULD have a good defense.  Imo, they're only in the ballpark of "meets expectations".

For a DC yes. For head coach, Salad is abysmal. 

[Joejet]

1 hour ago, usapaw said:

But they need an offense to make this a reality. It's the Offense that is pure garbage.  

No question about it. The thread was about defense which is what I was addressing.

[TuscanyTile2]

13 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

For a DC yes. For head coach, Salad is abysmal. 

I meant their coaching on the defensive side of the ball.  I agree that Saleh has been abysmal as a HC.

[GreenFish]

The simplicity of the defense helps develop players.

Guys like Quincy, JFM and DJ Reed got better with Saleh and Ulbrich.

The defense has 1 high priced FA (Mosley) and 4 1st round picks (Quinnen, Sauce, JJ and McDonald). The rest of the D is made up of day 3 picks and bargain FA signings.

The problem with our team is the QB first and foremost. Followed by the offensive coaching staff and Saleh.

[OilfieldJet]

19 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

The simplicity of the defense helps develop players.

Guys like Quincy, JFM and DJ Reed got better with Saleh and Ulbrich.

The defense has 1 high priced FA (Mosley) and 4 1st round picks (Quinnen, Sauce, JJ and McDonald). The rest of the D is made up of day 3 picks and bargain FA signings.

The problem with our team is the QB first and foremost. Followed by the offensive coaching staff and Saleh.

Thomas is also a first rounder.

[doitny]

3 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said:

It would be easy to gauge Salad and Ulbrich’s worth if JD purposely favored the offense with resources and had the defensive experts develop talent. Otherwise what the hell is the point of bringing them in? 

but that is exactly what JD is doing.

out of 7 first rd picks JD used 4 on offense.. all 4 of his 2nd rd picks went to offense. thats 8 out of 11 prime picks on the offense.

big FA signings all went on Offense. Cook, Davis, Fant, Moses, Laken, Conklin, Uzamah, Rodgers....

who was a big FA on defense?/ Reed? Lawson ok thats it. Whitehead is a nobody, Adams is a UDFA, QW they picked up off of Jax PS. 

 

[Creepy Lurker]

2 minutes ago, doitny said:

but that is exactly what JD is doing.

out of 7 first rd picks JD used 4 on offense.. all 4 of his 2nd rd picks went to offense. thats 8 out of 11 prime picks on the offense.

big FA signings all went on Offense. Cook, Davis, Fant, Moses, Laken, Conklin, Uzamah, Rodgers....

who was a big FA on defense?/ Reed? Lawson ok thats it. Whitehead is a nobody, Adams is a UDFA, QW they picked up off of Jax PS. 

 

You’re right. I’m also speaking in general with past regimes like Rex and Tanny/Idzik or Bowles/Maccagnan. I’m tired of DCs that become head coaches getting a bulk of the resources allocated to their side of the ball. 
 

As you reminded me, this regime technically hasn’t done that. JD has just been atrocious at evaluating talent. Despite all the high picks and FA spending and trades, he has almost nothing to show for it at all. It’s the reason this team is pure trash. 

[doitny]

48 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

The simplicity of the defense helps develop players.

Guys like Quincy, JFM and DJ Reed got better with Saleh and Ulbrich.

The defense has 1 high priced FA (Mosley) and 4 1st round picks (Quinnen, Sauce, JJ and McDonald). The rest of the D is made up of day 3 picks and bargain FA signings.

The problem with our team is the QB first and foremost. Followed by the offensive coaching staff and Saleh.

100%

its a small sample size but Sieman in 2 games has avg 25 pts and 370 yds of offense 

in 11 games Zach avg 16 pts and 276 yds of offense. 

stats dont lie, Zach brought down this whole team

[Jet_Engine1]

5 hours ago, ASH1962 said:

The pathetic thing is, everyone else in the world sees this, except for one MAGA idiot. The cult leader & owner. 

[rangerous]

14 hours ago, Drums said:

That’s the interesting thing. It’s so predictable that they know how teams will attack it. Dangerous game but when you have talent it works, when you don’t, it doesn’t. 

Maybe true but there are quite a few other teams running the same defense and you’d think the jet offense would know how to attack it.

[jamesr]

15 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

The scheme is not designed to be complex but it's coached well. The Legion of Boom was a similar (if not identical) scheme that Pete Carrol ran and won a Super Bowl with.

I'm fine with the defense as I think while not "elite" is plenty good enough to win a Super Bowl with (if the offense did its part). I also like the way they're coached (DL rotation, don't wear down the corners too much, and get after that QB with less blitz). 

It's the offense and the overall ya know...."head coaching" that I have issues with Saleh.

I was watching one of the recent Cincy games, I think it was against Pittsburgh. Their defense was getting torn up ... really looked poor on all levels. And that was supposedly a Superbowl ready team before Burrow got hurt.

A lot of teams would kill to have the defense we have. It is more than sufficient to get you far in the playoffs. Could it be better? Sure. But the incremental gains we could get going forward will be far, far less than they will be on the offensive side. This isn't news to anyone.

I also see a lot of other teams struggling on 3rd and long too. Red Zone shows plenty of occasions where it's 3rd and 21 and the O gets a great catch for 22. I don't think this is an "us" problem. What does annoy me is when we give up loads of yards on a "safe" underneath play, stop the opponent short, but give them a very makeable 4th down. Teams are starting to go for it more on 4th down so the prevent D on 3rd down is becoming more of a liability, in my opinion. Something that teams need to start adjusting to.