bicketybam Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 2 minutes ago, neckdemon said: Gotta have a backup plan at qb. Not sure that tyrod taylor is a good plan. But I guess Douglas is gonna run with it It's not like he had a ton of options. The two other guys went to places where they have excellent chances to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 23 minutes ago, David Harris said: He’s done his job and put the roster together. After the draft it’s on Saleh. He made some TERRIBLE draft picks (Becton, Zach Wilson, many later round picks) He has made some good trades and some good picks. (Garret wilson, Hall, Jermaine johnson, Sauce) He gambled every single thing on the Aaron Rodgers trade and got played so bad by the packers it was embarrassing. He spent so much time appeasing Rodgers last year he forgot to actually build a good roster. He has had some very good aspects to his gming an some utterly dreadful aspects. In the end you have to win and make the playoffs he has failed in that regard, and as for Saleh? Douglas chose him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtherwiseHappyinLife Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 15 minutes ago, bicketybam said: My point is that he shouldn't be branded a sh*t QB talent evaluater because he selected Wilson. I do agree it was a huge mistake having Wilson as the #2 last year. But if Rodgers missed only 2 games and Zach came in to game manage a 1-1 record, no one would be screaming. I don't think anyone expected Rodgers to go down 4 plays into the season. He had plenty of time to pick up a vet after Rodger’s injury and before the trade deadline and didn’t. He’s accountable for evaluating Zach as up to the task. This is part of talent evaluation and even though the Jets were 4-3 at the deadline, any good talent evaluator could see that Zach was still a major part of the problem. Smart GMs would have brought someone in early .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 2 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said: He had plenty of time to pick up a vet after Rodger’s injury and before the trade deadline and didn’t. He’s accountable for evaluating Zach as up to the task. This is part of talent evaluation and even though the Jets were 4-3 at the deadline, any good talent evaluator could see that Zach was still a major part of the problem. Smart GMs would have brought someone in early .. And ruin our draft position? Are you nuts??!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcJet Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 I've said this before, regimes that do a long-ass gut and rebuild rarely remain to see it completed. You eventually need a new regime to reset the losing culture of the rebuild. There are many, many examples of this - SF, Cle, Mia, Hou, Jax, Cin, Det all had long rebuilds and then new regimes to make them successful. Soon to be on that list... ATL, Chi. ... Jets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtherwiseHappyinLife Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 12 minutes ago, bicketybam said: And ruin our draft position? Are you nuts??!! Sends the wrong message to a team that was ready to make the playoffs last year that you aren’t willing to pull the trigger and upgrade backup QB after the starter went down in the first game. Rather relying on a guy you (JD) said needed to sit a year. Last year was not a tank year. It should have been about making the playoffs. It was clear to most that Zach simply wasn’t capable of that. In any event, I agreed with your point that many teams would have taken Zach at #2 in the draft. I’m simply bringing up poor decision in year 3 that involved thinking Zach was going to be or get good enough. I believe both points are fair … 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falco21 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 I am a big fan of Douglas, but his mistakes have really tarnished my overall view of him. With that said, it is hard for me to sit here and say that he needs to go, even if they do not have the season we all envision they should have. I say that because what more could you possibly want him to do? At the end of the day, it comes down to coaching and producing results with the players the coach is given. While you can make an argument that JD hired Saleh, I can easily make an argument back that anytime a GM hires a first time head coach, there is a large unknown on their abilities to run with the role and grow in it. Saleh has shown to be an excellent leader and a great locker room coach, but he needs to translate those traits into wins. My stance, as it sits today, is you keep Douglas, even if it doesn't pan out this coming season. Fire the coaching staff and let him find an alternative. It is VERY hard to find a good head coach in this league, let alone a good GM. Douglas has shown his abilities to draft talent, to sign good free agents, to manipulate the salary cap and work out team friendly deals. I just think this organization is making a mistake by just walking away from that without allowing another hire of a head coach. Personnel moves are one thing, wins largely falls at the feet of the head coach. No one can sit here and say that this is not the most talented roster we have had since 09 and 10. JD built it. Now Saleh needs to win with it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 8 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said: Sends the wrong message to a team that was ready to make the playoffs last year that you aren’t willing to pull the trigger and upgrade backup QB after the starter went out in the first game. Rather relying on a guy you (JD) said needed to sit a year. Last year was not a tank year. It should have been about making the playoffs. It was clear to most that Zach simply wasn’t capable of that. In any event, I agreed with your point that many teams would have taken Zach at #2 in the draft. I’m simply bringing up poor decision making that involved thinking Zach was going to get good enough that happened thereafter. I believe both points are fair … They are fair but my point has nothing to do with yours, lol. I'm not ready to say "You can't let Douglas draft a QB after he went and blew the Wilson pick." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 49 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said: It's bizarre how cyclical this franchise and fans are. This is like the 9th time we've all seen this movie and yet here we are still hoping that Johnny isn't going to get kicked in the ******* face. Jets fans: Hmmmmm, maybe this time she won't pull it away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wit Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 It’s hard to outwork the offensive coaching issues. The o line coach is maligned, and the offensive coordinator needs Rodgers to run the offense. If both of these things can be overcome and the defense continues to ball out, they can win a game in the playoffs as well. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtherwiseHappyinLife Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 18 minutes ago, Falco21 said: I am a big fan of Douglas, but his mistakes have really tarnished my overall view of him. With that said, it is hard for me to sit here and say that he needs to go, even if they do not have the season we all envision they should have. I say that because what more could you possibly want him to do? At the end of the day, it comes down to coaching and producing results with the players the coach is given. While you can make an argument that JD hired Saleh, I can easily make an argument back that anytime a GM hires a first time head coach, there is a large unknown on their abilities to run with the role and grow in it. Saleh has shown to be an excellent leader and a great locker room coach, but he needs to translate those traits into wins. My stance, as it sits today, is you keep Douglas, even if it doesn't pan out this coming season. Fire the coaching staff and let him find an alternative. It is VERY hard to find a good head coach in this league, let alone a good GM. Douglas has shown his abilities to draft talent, to sign good free agents, to manipulate the salary cap and work out team friendly deals. I just think this organization is making a mistake by just walking away from that without allowing another hire of a head coach. Personnel moves are one thing, wins largely falls at the feet of the head coach. No one can sit here and say that this is not the most talented roster we have had since 09 and 10. JD built it. Now Saleh needs to win with it I’d like to hear what JD has learned since he hired Saleh that would make the next coaching hire any better. - Did he simply go with the safe, popular decision at the time? - Was it a mistake to hire a Defensive guy in an offensive league? - What does he make of a young coach surrounding himself with inexperienced coordinators? - Does he have a new view on what it takes for a new coach to be a team leader? Things like accountability, flexibility & adaptability - Can we do away with salesy slogans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 1 hour ago, bitonti said: But who will make sure the free agents get their breakfast sandwiches? This is the most important question that needs to be answered. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 14 minutes ago, Dcat said: Jets fans: Hmmmmm, maybe this time she won't pull it away. Jets fans…. You want two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Harris Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 1 hour ago, Beerfish said: He made some TERRIBLE draft picks (Becton, Zach Wilson, many later round picks) He has made some good trades and some good picks. (Garret wilson, Hall, Jermaine johnson, Sauce) He gambled every single thing on the Aaron Rodgers trade and got played so bad by the packers it was embarrassing. He spent so much time appeasing Rodgers last year he forgot to actually build a good roster. He has had some very good aspects to his gming an some utterly dreadful aspects. In the end you have to win and make the playoffs he has failed in that regard, and as for Saleh? Douglas chose him. Agreed on all counts but remember the saying about the devil you know. Woody Johnson hired a 3rd party firm to find a previous GM, Idzik. He hired Ernie Accorsi to find a previous GM, Mike Mac. I am convinced that Joe Douglas is the best GM the Jets will ever have while Woody Johnson owns the team and is picking people to run football operations. Douglas has made some huge mistakes, but I give him credit for recognizing them and decisively pivoting at each turn. He drafted ZW, it failed, and then pulled a stunner of a trade to get a HOF QB. The first-round pick swap was bad, but 2 second round picks is peanuts compared to other QB trades such as the Russell Wilson trade. The Becton and Zach drafts were terrible but the drafting of highly regarded LT and QB were the right moves however the actual men were execution failures. He also had the best draft in franchise history in 2022. The Jamal Adams trade is one of the best trades in NFL history. He landed AR but then mistakenly gave away his personnel decisions, but again he quickly pivoted from this mistake, took the reins back this off season and absolutely crushed FA this year. We both acknowledge the mixed bag. The difference is, the good is enough for me to recommit to the relationship. The overall plan is excellent, the execution has been poor but is getting better. I think he's always had a good head on his shoulders, has learned many lessons, and I'm hoping he sticks around because I see the vision and think he's the guy to get us there. I think we also have to acknowledge the bad luck involved. Mekhi was the #1 OT on many boards, Joe Thomas raved about him, if he didn't get the knee injury things may not have gone sideways. ZW was scouted in a COVID year, Howie Roseman would've traded anything to move up for him that year, huge bust. AR, 4 plays, enough said. Hindsight makes them all look like horrible decisions but if we caught some breaks this would be a whole different conversation. The NYJ have never been closer to the Steelers/Ravens/Eagles model then they are right now. Yes, we just need the success part. We're due and I'm hoping we get it to justify keeping JD because I think we get there if he stays in control. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Ghost Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 2 hours ago, SackExchangeNYJ said: The one thing is, the expectations don't meet the reality. Yes, Douglas has had some bad picks and free agent signings. Are there GMs who don't? How does that make him any different from any other team executive in league history? If the expectation is to find a GM who never misses on a draft pick or free agent signing, I fear the fan base will never like a GM. Ever. And I honestly believe there is a contingent who never will like a GM, no matter what. I’d agree with you if we were seeing results on the field, but he’s been here 5 years and the team’s best win total has been 7. As far as hits and misses, he had one terrific draft a few bad ones but hit a $140 quinella when he missed on back to back 1st round picks at QB and LT. Those two picks (especially the #2 on Wilson) have set us back tremendously to the point where he had two dig deep for Rodgers and friends in order to keep his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 1 hour ago, David Harris said: .....I am convinced that Joe Douglas is the best GM the Jets will ever have while Woody Johnson owns the team..... From Wikipedia, and quite Apt in the realm of some sports fans: Status quo bias is an emotional bias; a preference for the maintenance of one's current or previous state of affairs, or a preference to not undertake any action to change this current or previous state.[1] The current baseline (or status quo) is taken as a reference point, and any change from that baseline is perceived as a loss or gain. Corresponding to different alternatives, this current baseline or default option is perceived and evaluated by individuals as a positive.[2] Status quo bias should be distinguished from a rational preference for the status quo ante, as when the current state of affairs is objectively superior to the available alternatives, or when imperfect information is a significant problem. A large body of evidence, however, shows that status quo bias frequently affects human decision-making. Status quo bias should also be distinguished from psychological inertia, which refers to a lack of intervention in the current course of affairs. The bias intersects with other non-rational cognitive processes such as loss aversion, in which losses comparative to gains are weighed to a greater extent.[2] Further non-rational cognitive processes include existence bias, endowment effect, longevity, mere exposure, and regret avoidance. Experimental evidence for the detection of status quo bias is seen through the use of the reversal test. A vast amount of experimental and field examples exist. Behaviour in regard to economics, retirement plans, health, and ethical choices show evidence of the status quo bias. It's amazing how many of these cognitive biases are expressed in the realm of sports fandom, honestly. Quote The NYJ have never been closer to the Steelers/Ravens/Eagles model then they are right now. I have no idea what Universe you exist in to believe that, because it's not even remotely accurate. We're far closer in 2024 to the Snyder "try to buy the playoffs via FA" Redskins than anything like the Steelers or Ravens model of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 2 hours ago, bicketybam said: It's not like he had a ton of options. The two other guys went to places where they have excellent chances to start. He had plenty of chances since last year. He royally f*cked up the situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 2 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said: It's bizarre how cyclical this franchise and fans are. This is like the 9th time we've all seen this movie and yet here we are still hoping that Johnny isn't going to get kicked in the ******* face. There were people rooting for johnny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleDown Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 There hasn't been a GM in the NFL to last this long with this little success since Matt Millen in Detroit. Not great company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 57 minutes ago, neckdemon said: He had plenty of chances since last year. He royally f*cked up the situation I'm talking about this year. Tyrod Taylor isn't a bad option. The two better ones were guys who want to be starters and have a great chance to be just that. I'm not talking about last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 42 minutes ago, bicketybam said: I'm talking about this year. Tyrod Taylor isn't a bad option. The two better ones were guys who want to be starters and have a great chance to be just that. I'm not talking about last year. i know. i'm just saying he created this problem last year and thats part of the reason our options were limited enough where we had to go with a guy like tyrod taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doitny Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 the Steelers made the playoffs with 10 wins. we could make it or not with 10 wins. i dont think he gets fired on a 10 win season without the playoffs. maybe even 9. 7 or 8 wins or less then yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 Ah no way if these guys get hurt again that we signed he will be kicked out of town Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanatic Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 7 hours ago, y2k8 said: Just like in Glengarry Glenross: 1st place is a car (long term extension). 2nd place (w playoffs) is a set of steak knives (1 year extension) 3rd place is he's fired. Good movie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJF71 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 8 hours ago, Adoni Beast said: The facts are clear and obvious about this team's record under Joe Douglas.. It's been putrid, but however rocky the road has been we have arrived at our destination folks and that is the current roster we have. I think Joe Douglas has done enough to survive whatever happens this season. If they underperform, a rash of injuries, etc. I think Saleh is gone and Douglas gets extended. We don't really have anymore bad contracts and certainly long term ones We have a really good core of young players The vets supporting them are not off a cliff yet and aren't signed to big time long-term deals We still have our picks moving forward to draft a QB once Rodgers is gone Quite simply, it took awhile but Douglas has put together a team that can compete and is well-balanced. If he drafts a good LT and WR this draft to assume the roles of post-Tyron + post-Williams then I think he absolutely is unequivocally back regardless of what happens this season. Additionally, there's no reason to believe that if this year goes well enough that Tyron and/or Williams don't come back for another year or two. I'm not absolving Douglas of the many faults and missteps that he has taken, however he has fixed those without mortgaging our future in anyway. Only matters if the Jets win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 Douglas has been doing a good job all along or our team would not be in this situation right now no matter what JD did this offseason. yes he made some mistakes at QB not having a viable back up and yes the OL could have been handled better but injuries to the top QB on your roster and 15 + different OL rotations due to injury are Impossible for any GM to remedy. if we get bit by the injury bug its not on JD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJ37/12 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 He needs to win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfmartin Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 I honestly don’t think so. I really think Woody keeps him and puts it all on Saleh. Woody has already made comments pre-free agency that “we have the talent we just need to figure out how to deploy it.”Hopium. Those two are tied togetherSent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Thornburgh Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 9 hours ago, Augustiniak said: If rodgers gets hurt again, you still have a win now team with no qb. Which is why we should draft a qb at 10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Thornburgh Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 2 hours ago, bicketybam said: I'm talking about this year. Tyrod Taylor isn't a bad option. The two better ones were guys who want to be starters and have a great chance to be just that. I'm not talking about last year. Tyrod is a massive upgrade over Zach but he’s very injury prone and getting older which means we are watching Zach again by mid-October Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 1 minute ago, Rich Thornburgh said: Tyrod is a massive upgrade over Zach but he’s very injury prone and getting older which means we are watching Zach again by mid-October Come on, my guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 6 hours ago, Falco21 said: I am a big fan of Douglas, but his mistakes have really tarnished my overall view of him. With that said, it is hard for me to sit here and say that he needs to go, even if they do not have the season we all envision they should have. I say that because what more could you possibly want him to do? At the end of the day, it comes down to coaching and producing results with the players the coach is given. While you can make an argument that JD hired Saleh, I can easily make an argument back that anytime a GM hires a first time head coach, there is a large unknown on their abilities to run with the role and grow in it. Saleh has shown to be an excellent leader and a great locker room coach, but he needs to translate those traits into wins. My stance, as it sits today, is you keep Douglas, even if it doesn't pan out this coming season. Fire the coaching staff and let him find an alternative. It is VERY hard to find a good head coach in this league, let alone a good GM. Douglas has shown his abilities to draft talent, to sign good free agents, to manipulate the salary cap and work out team friendly deals. I just think this organization is making a mistake by just walking away from that without allowing another hire of a head coach. Personnel moves are one thing, wins largely falls at the feet of the head coach. No one can sit here and say that this is not the most talented roster we have had since 09 and 10. JD built it. Now Saleh needs to win with it Even if it does work out this season, I'll still probably will want Bobby Stairs to be fired (though there's no way it'll happen). JD I'm back to feeling very optimistic about again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Thornburgh Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 1 minute ago, bicketybam said: Come on, my guy. Remember last summer when you weren’t supposed to bring Zach up because he was never going to play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 3 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said: Tyrod is a massive upgrade over Zach but he’s very injury prone and getting older which means we are watching Zach again by mid-October From your lips to the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' ears! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreened Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 Even Woody Johnson was smart enough to put a playoff mandate on Douglas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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