in fairness to Hack, other Rooks unimpressive.

[32EBoozer]

Wentz, Goff, Lynch have All been unimpressive.  Only Dak has impressed from what I've seen.

We'll see where Hack is next TC

[JiFtheOracle]

Reality is, none of those guys were sh*t till the predraft hype started.  Nobody thought Goff was a #1 overall pick and who the **** is Carson Wentz?  Stupid to mortgage the future for guys like that and both teams will pay in the long run for it.  And Lynch is in that same boat...though Denver didnt mortgage the future, but he was pure predraft hype currently getting beat out by a UDFA.

Hack was a household name wayyyyy before these guys.  And judging him on last is just silly.  Everything around him was pure sh*t.  He may suck but using last nights game as the suck-o-meter is moronic. 

 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

Reality is, none of those guys were sh*t till the predraft hype started.  Nobody thought Goff was a #1 overall pick and who the **** is Carson Wentz?  Stupid to mortgage the future for guys like that and both teams will pay in the long run for it.  And Lynch is in that same boat...though Denver didnt mortgage the future, but he was pure predraft hype currently getting beat out by a UDFA.

 

True, but you yourself have said before that all that matters is finding a QB.  If either turns out to be a true franchise guy, it'll be worth the price, no?

[JiFtheOracle]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

True, but you yourself have said before that all that matters is finding a QB.  If either turns out to be a true franchise guy, it'll be worth the price, no?

If they pan out, sure...but they wont.  Neither were cant miss prospects.  This wasnt a Winston or Mariotta situation where they were the clear 1 and 2 picks.  

These guys shot up the boards based on...what exactly?  That they play QB?

I dont think mortgage the future in search of a franchise QB unless that prospect is as damn close to cant miss as it gets. 

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

If they pan out, sure...but they wont.  Neither were cant miss prospects.  This wasnt a Winston or Mariotta situation where they were the clear 1 and 2 picks.  

These guys shot up the boards based on...what exactly?  That they play QB?

I dont think mortgage the future in search of a franchise QB unless that prospect is as damn close to cant miss as it gets. 

 

 

I suppose.  But I never viewed Winston or Mariota as anywhere close to being "can't miss" guys either.  For the Rams and Eagles to give up as much as they did, they had to think they had found "their guy".  Hell, the Eagles had spent heavily on Bradford and Chase Daniels and still went up the board for Wentz.  The front office wouldn't go "all in" on these guys, risking their jobs in the process, without viewing them as elite prospects.

[56mehl56]

5 minutes ago, JiF said:

If they pan out, sure...but they wont.  Neither were cant miss prospects.  This wasnt a Winston or Mariotta situation where they were the clear 1 and 2 picks.  

These guys shot up the boards based on...what exactly?  That they play QB?

I dont think mortgage the future in search of a franchise QB unless that prospect is as damn close to cant miss as it gets. 

 

 

With the recent changes in rookie salary cap , does it really mortgage the future if you swing and miss on a first round QB. Ideally you'd expect that a 1st rounder will contribute but from a long term aspect its no longer as disasterous as in the past when 1st round picks got massive contracts.

[JoJoTownsell1]

I don't think Hack was prepared to play an entire game. Petty was probably supposed to go until half but when he get hurt that forced Hack into the game. It looked like the Jets were running the same plays over and over which is clearly a huge advantage for the defense. 

[Integrity28]

16 minutes ago, JiF said:

Reality is, none of those guys were sh*t till the predraft hype started.  Nobody thought Goff was a #1 overall pick and who the **** is Carson Wentz?  Stupid to mortgage the future for guys like that and both teams will pay in the long run for it.  And Lynch is in that same boat...though Denver didnt mortgage the future, but he was pure predraft hype currently getting beat out by a UDFA.

Hack was a household name wayyyyy before these guys.  And judging him on last is just silly.  Everything around him was pure sh*t.  He may suck but using last nights game as the suck-o-meter is moronic. 

 

This.

[munchmemory]

Anybody watching Hack and not being a little worried is kidding themselves.  Can he improve? Dear Lord, I hope so.  But just looking at the kid's overall "presence" kinda scares me.

[Bleedin Green]

2 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

With the recent changes in rookie salary cap , does it really mortgage the future if you swing and miss on a first round QB. Ideally you'd expect that a 1st rounder will contribute but from a long term aspect its no longer as disasterous as in the past when 1st round picks got massive contracts.

It certainly mortgages the future jobs of those making the decisions.  You're right that it's probably not as bad as it once was, but in the case of QB, it will definitely screw things up for at least a few years, as teams are always compelled to give those guys plenty of chances.

[JiFtheOracle]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I suppose.  But I never viewed Winston or Mariota as anywhere close to being "can't miss" guys either.  For the Rams and Eagles to give up as much as they did, they had to think they had found "their guy".  Hell, the Eagles had spent heavily on Bradford and Chase Daniels and still went up the board for Wentz.  The front office wouldn't go "all in" on these guys, risking their jobs in the process, without viewing them as elite prospects.

Winston?  Absolutely was a cant miss.  The only question mark was his character concerns.  Mariota...he had some question marks but he wasnt created by predraft hype. These were the 2 clear cut best players in college Football.

There was nothing elite about Goff, Wentz or Lynch.  Nothing.  IMO those teams were desperate and mortgaged the future for prospect who were extremely flawed.  That's a risk I wouldnt be willing to take.  I much prefer Mac's approach.  Even if Hack sucks...at least he still added what looks like a damn good haul of talent. 

 

[JiFtheOracle]

5 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

With the recent changes in rookie salary cap , does it really mortgage the future if you swing and miss on a first round QB. Ideally you'd expect that a 1st rounder will contribute but from a long term aspect its no longer as disasterous as in the past when 1st round picks got massive contracts.

It's not so much the money, its trading away an entire draft for teams with tons of holes. 

[dbatesman]

In fairness to Hackenberg, he's terrible at football, so it's not really fair to expect him to be good at football.

[Rangers9]

Look you can't say the guy is terrible yet. Not based on 2 exhibition games and he actually at times looked good in his first game. I'm not for drafting projects esp in the 2nd round. I expect the Qb to be somewhat game ready if called upon. And at least be able to run a base offense. So if Hack is next man up this season I don't think he could do the job. And let's face it. Last season in one game both of the Jets Qbs were injured. And about ten years ago in one game two Qbs (Chad and Fiedler) went down and were out for the year. 

[Beerfish]

43 minutes ago, JiF said:

Reality is, none of those guys were sh*t till the predraft hype started.  Nobody thought Goff was a #1 overall pick and who the **** is Carson Wentz?  Stupid to mortgage the future for guys like that and both teams will pay in the long run for it.  And Lynch is in that same boat...though Denver didnt mortgage the future, but he was pure predraft hype currently getting beat out by a UDFA.

Hack was a household name wayyyyy before these guys.  And judging him on last is just silly.  Everything around him was pure sh*t.  He may suck but using last nights game as the suck-o-meter is moronic. 

 

Can I use last nights game, the 1st game, training camp and his last two years of college to base his suck-o-meter rating?

[RutgersJetFan]

13 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

In fairness to Hackenberg, he's terrible at football, so it's not really fair to expect him to be good at football.

Yes but other than that.

[CrazyCarl40]

Whenever I would get in trouble in my youth, I'd tell my parents "well so and so did this", which I thought would be demonstrably worse and lessen the punishment. "Well so and so isn't our kid, you are!" would be their retort and the punishment wouldn't be less harsh. Lesson learned.

[JiFtheOracle]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Can I use last nights game, the 1st game, training camp and his last two years of college to base his suck-o-meter rating?

Sure.  That's fair.  

[nycdan]

He really does look like a Tarzan/Jane player.  Disappointing so far, but maybe he'll sort it out a bit this year.  Frankly, I'm much more optimistic about Petty at this point.

[Sperm Edwards]

32 minutes ago, JiF said:

Winston?  Absolutely was a cant miss.  The only question mark was his character concerns.  Mariota...he had some question marks but he wasnt created by predraft hype. These were the 2 clear cut best players in college Football.

There was nothing elite about Goff, Wentz or Lynch.  Nothing.  IMO those teams were desperate and mortgaged the future for prospect who were extremely flawed.  That's a risk I wouldnt be willing to take.  I much prefer Mac's approach.  Even if Hack sucks...at least he still added what looks like a damn good haul of talent. 

 

Neither of those two were can't miss prospects. That's hindsight (to the extent either are still can't miss today, just because of non-implosions as rookies). Character concerns (like those that existed with Winston before the draft) are huge, and they absolutely make someone a CAN miss prospect. There are endless examples of this. No one doubted his physical ability. 

Mariota was the exact opposite. No one really worried about his character, but they worried plenty whether his skills would translate to the NFL (or if he'd just get permanently injured before he could successfully make that transition). I remember things said like he could throw on the run, but he had trouble throwing accurately while standing in the pocket. On paper, that should be correctable; in reality, that only corrects if his nerves allow himself to set and throw. It's why he didn't vault up to #2 himself until well after free agency had started last year.

I wouldn't say there was nothing elite about any of them. Lynch certainly had (and has) elite arm strength and great size (is there such a thing as "elite size" lol)? We all know what the downsides were (and are), and why he's anything but a can't miss prospect.

"Can't miss" IMO is a very limited group. Luck, Eli, Palmer, Peyton, etc. Everyone else had legitimate question marks, even if many today pretend they didn't exist back then.

[kmnj]

lynch looked MUCH better and he is the guy the jets should have picked-fans were right

[Raideraholic]

1 hour ago, 32EBoozer said:

Wentz, Goff, Lynch have All been unimpressive.  Only Dak has impressed from what I've seen.

We'll see where Hack is next TC

No doubt about that as the only rookie Qb that looks ready is Dak Prescott.   ( has been very impressive) .    Now call me a homer but I think in time Connor Cook will be a very good Qb in this league.( for some other team) .      He isn't anywhere close to where Prescott is, ( a good year away) but like Matt Millen said he has the it factor at Qb.  He knows how to play, handles pressure well,  and has a quick release.   
 

[Rangers9]

Prescott has to prove it regular season. Same for any starting Qb. We'll see what happens when he plays vs the Giants in game one. To say he's way ahead of other rookie Qbs isn't the case yet. But if he pans out and has a career as starting Qb for the Cowboys it just means they got their Qbs like with Romo as a FA or with Dak as a 4th rounder. Let's not go crazy about this kid yet. Regular season is a different kettle of fish. Who knows maybe our 4th round guy in the long run will be our starter. Hopefully he isn't seriously injured. 

[Smashmouth]

55 minutes ago, JiF said:

Winston?  Absolutely was a cant miss.  The only question mark was his character concerns.  Mariota...he had some question marks but he wasnt created by predraft hype. These were the 2 clear cut best players in college Football.

There was nothing elite about Goff, Wentz or Lynch.  Nothing.  IMO those teams were desperate and mortgaged the future for prospect who were extremely flawed.  That's a risk I wouldnt be willing to take.  I much prefer Mac's approach.  Even if Hack sucks...at least he still added what looks like a damn good haul of talent. 

 

Dak Prescott doing what he is doing and the 3 so called top prospects doing a lot if nothing shows just how difficult it is to evaluate a QB coming out of college or even in pre season games for that matter. Its the biggest crap shoot in all of sports by a long margin.

The only fact that exists about QB evaluation is you really know nothing until heated NFL pressure sets in or when you play in real NFL games./ You can learn offenses, you can learn defenses, you can establish timing with your receivers, you can learn protections, BUT you cant learn to deal with pressure !! Some QB's can play under the intense pressure of the NFL others cant and when you are a player who can't deal with pressure all the things you learned above go out the window quickly.

Against great pass rushing teams you have to get the ball out in 3 seconds or less/ Even against bad pass rushing teams you have at the most 4-5 seconds. Each second is huge in the NFL So turning your head and scanning the field in a split second can happen numerous times in those short windows but once again if the pressure gets to you and you lose your composure your no longer scanning the field your not keeping your head downfield your trying to escape and it all blows up.

So Imagine for a second how hard it is for a Rookie who is trying to learn all those things and deal with the pressure at the same time ? Its extremely difficult and some guys just can't handle it and never will. Most if not all Rookies have a limited playbook the coaches would rather they play naturally with a limited playbook then to engulf them with too much. In that respect they can play faster and more to their natural talents. At that point you know whether they can actually deal with the pressure. Problem is that usually takes a year or 2 of evaluation.

[ljr]

15 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

No doubt about that as the only rookie Qb that looks ready is Dak Prescott.   ( has been very impressive) .    Now call me a homer but I think in time Connor Cook will be a very good Qb in this league.( for some other team) .      He isn't anywhere close to where Prescott is, ( a good year away) but like Matt Millen said he has the it factor at Qb.  He knows how to play, handles pressure well,  and has a quick release.   
 

I must have read something wrong here ... Sounds like you used a "Matt Millen said so" as a means to support a position ... That can't be right!

[JiFtheOracle]

53 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Neither of those two were can't miss prospects. That's hindsight (to the extent either are still can't miss today, just because of non-implosions as rookies). Character concerns (like those that existed with Winston before the draft) are huge, and they absolutely make someone a CAN miss prospect. There are endless examples of this. No one doubted his physical ability. 

Mariota was the exact opposite. No one really worried about his character, but they worried plenty whether his skills would translate to the NFL (or if he'd just get permanently injured before he could successfully make that transition). I remember things said like he could throw on the run, but he had trouble throwing accurately while standing in the pocket. On paper, that should be correctable; in reality, that only corrects if his nerves allow himself to set and throw. It's why he didn't vault up to #2 himself until well after free agency had started last year.

I wouldn't say there was nothing elite about any of them. Lynch certainly had (and has) elite arm strength and great size (is there such a thing as "elite size" lol)? We all know what the downsides were (and are), and why he's anything but a can't miss prospect.

"Can't miss" IMO is a very limited group. Luck, Eli, Palmer, Peyton, etc. Everyone else had legitimate question marks, even if many today pretend they didn't exist back then.

Well, I disagree.  They were the consensus #1 and #2 picks not only the year they came out but before their final seasons in the NCAA.

Winston was being compared to Luck from an Football smarts perspective.  Mariota had a few concerns, namely adjusting to an NFL offense...that was pretty much it but yeah for that maybe he wasnt/isnt a cant miss...but damn close.

Either way, my point remains.  They werent predraft hype players like Goff, Wentz and Lynch.  There were consensus #1 overall caliber players their entire college career.

 

[32EBoozer]

3 hours ago, munchmemory said:

Anybody watching Hack and not being a little worried is kidding themselves.  Can he improve? Dear Lord, I hope so.  But just looking at the kid's overall "presence" kinda scares me.

I think we were saying that about Petty last year.

Last TC and season plus a full off-season and another TC really has helped Petty... he's no longer a Heart Breaker

https://youtu.be/fFnOfpIJL0M

 

 

[PS17]

In fairness to Hack, he was playing with a second string offensive line, and only had one maybe-NFL-caliber WR in Robby Anderson to throw to. I'm not excusing his play; he looked terrible and no one should be happy. But let's pump the breaks before calling him an epic bust. If he looks this bad next year then I'll be alarmed. 

[32EBoozer]

10 minutes ago, PS17 said:

But let's pump the breaks before calling him an epic bust. If he looks this bad next year then I'll be alarmed. 

This 1000%

Let the kid sit, watch and study film for a season then come back next TC and compete.

[FidelioJet]

This is a guy we drafted in the second round with a clear understanding that he's going to required a complete overhaul of his fundamentals/footwork.  He was drafted soley on potential.   

Mac saw his penn state film and knows he needed to be completely rebuilt  

Yet, he's received almost no reps in Preseason and the coaching staff has come out and stated they haven't yet even tried to fix his footwork.  That they're going to wait until the off-season. 

This is about what should have been expected.  

[JetsFanatic]

I'm not concerned at this point. I expect him to look much better next season.

[Adoni Beast]

Its pretty simple. He's had limited, basically non existent reps in camp. There were only so many plays they could call him to run. He had to play longer than expected.

As somebody else stated, it looked like they kept running the same play over and over again. This is one of the problems of having 4 QB's. Limited reps for development. 

[UntouchableCrew]

2 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

No doubt about that as the only rookie Qb that looks ready is Dak Prescott.   ( has been very impressive) .    Now call me a homer but I think in time Connor Cook will be a very good Qb in this league.( for some other team) .      He isn't anywhere close to where Prescott is, ( a good year away) but like Matt Millen said he has the it factor at Qb.  He knows how to play, handles pressure well,  and has a quick release.   
 

You?  A homer? No way!

[jackhuntr]

Petty didn't look good this time last year also, let's give Hack a year and hope he improves as much as Petty did.

 

[Paradis]

44 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

This 1000%

Let the kid sit, watch and study film for a season then come back next TC and compete.

That's fine, but it's not reassuring that he's as big of a mess and most teams thought he would be. I fail to see the reason why taking such risks when we have NO one in the bullpen is "smart move".  Meanwhile Lynch who was deemed to big of a project (LOL given our present situation) has shown tangible progress.