Gas2No99 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 With more speed and coverage ability required by defenses - and LBs specifically - to cover multi-WR spread formations and ridiculously athletic receiving TEs the ideal "measurables" for an ILB have changed dramatically for today's Modern NFL. The drafting of college safeties (SS, mostly) such as Shaq Thompson in CAR, Deone Bucannon in ARZ, Su'a Cravens in DC, indicates that the classic "Thumper" ILB (David Harris) is becoming obsolete and a liability in pass coverage. ILBs MUST be able to keep up with RBs and TEs in covering the underneath zones where the Jets have been CONSTANTLY burned in by opposing offenses. Lee is still learning and has had his significant rookie mistakes, but he is improving and fits the mold of the new darting LB that can also be overpowered or outruns the play. Pryor has been HORRENDOUS in coverage in the secondary and can not be trusted for deep coverage; he's been the main culprit in a lot of the BUSTS in coverage, especially against Seattle. He can still hit like a truck and has adequate speed to cover the underneath area. Just do not let him compromise the deep portions of the field as he's done thus far by keeping him as a safety. At this stage, I wonder if our CS would be willing to move Revis to FS, Gilchrist to SS, and utilizing Pryor - and Antonio Allen as well as he played LB @ USC- at ILB. If not this year, perhaps next year? Would Revis consider a move to safety? Would Pryor thrive as a front seven player instead of constantly being exposed with bad angles and awareness in the secondary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadFan Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Bad angles. Also a poor tackler. "Hits "like a truck," you say... agreed. But I say he often doesn't wrap up. Not characteristics of an ILB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet9 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, RoadFan said: Bad angles. Also a poor tackler. "Hits "like a truck," you say... agreed. But I say he often doesn't wrap up. Not characteristics of an ILB. In his defense, no DBs wrap up anymore. Not sure when throwing your shoulder at a guy's knees became 'tackling' but thats what it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 no worries, todd is going to "play our game", and next week it will be all better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe W. Namath Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Ur asking a secondary player to move to linebacker in the middle of the season. Lets make darron lee a corner while were at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetscrazey Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 A good start would be to stop letting him cover TEs that split out. Pryor gives way too much cushion and always concedes the slant near the goal line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 5 hours ago, Larz said: no worries, todd is going to "play our game", and next week it will be all better Todd doesn't play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike135 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 No way. LB and DB are drastically different positions. I know a safety can lineup close to the LOS, blitz, fill the box and so on... but the positions are worlds apart. A safety normally has time to read, react and then choose what to do. A LB has to read and react as well, but many times with an olineman or TE blocking them. They have to be able to work out of blocks from dudes much bigger than they are. Constantly taking and giving out beatings. The transition from one to the other, even at a HS level, is extremely difficult and most times unsuccessful. Completely different skill set, physical attributes and mentality required for the two positions. Ask anyone who's played LB (successfully). It takes some time to learn that it requires a borderline insane mentality. Gotta flip a switch, that from my experience, isn't something that comes naturally to most. LB to DL is much more similar than LB is to DB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 What's better than one tiny linebacker? Two tiny linebackers! Also, this myth of Revis moving to safety is probably a few seasons away from happening at all. He has to agree to it and probably a pay cut. 17 million for a safety is outlandish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obrien2Toon Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Only rex Ryan would still draft a safety like Pryor in today's NFL. He's just about useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said: What's better than one tiny linebacker? Two tiny linebackers! Also, this myth of Revis moving to safety is probably a few seasons away from happening at all. He has to agree to it and probably a pay cut. 17 million for a safety is outlandish. Calvin Pryor (5' 11", 207 lbs) would make Darron Lee (6'1", 232 lbs) look like a GIANT in the middle of the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkus Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Pryor should be moved to the bench. Miles is a much better tackler and it is impossible to be worse in coverage than Pryor. I would also consider putting Antonio Allen in there in passing downs, he would be an improvement in coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 32 minutes ago, Barkus said: Pryor should be moved to the bench. Miles is a much better tackler and it is impossible to be worse in coverage than Pryor. I would also consider putting Antonio Allen in there in passing downs, he would be an improvement in coverage. So would a statue . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico002 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Pryor was our best defender last year- what happened??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 10 hours ago, RoadFan said: Bad angles. Also a poor tackler. "Hits "like a truck," you say... agreed. But I say he often doesn't wrap up. Not characteristics of an ILB. Or here's an idea, if you'll go with me on this. How about our career safety turned secondary coach, now our head coach, take a special interest in an inherited 1st round pick with real talent, and coach him into a better player. Show him what he's doing wrong and have him practice correcting it on the (practice) field over and over and over until it's second nature. People aren't born as bad angle takers from the womb. It's a learned skill and instinct, unless he's so stubborn or stupid he simply will not or cannot learn. In case of the latter, sit him down other than on obvious running downs, and the GM must resist the temptation to sign him to an extension, or to even exercise his 5th year option, after his initial 4 yr rookie contract is up. You can have a guy like him on the team, but you can't have him out there every down in a pass-first league if he doesn't drastically improve in coverage. And as an every down starter with a 1st round history, he'll be too expensive to keep as a situational player beyond his rookie deal. When a draftee is due a starter's salary in 2 years, he either fits as an asset every down, or let him go and recoup at least a comp pick (or even trade him outright before that). This should be Maccagnan's religion as GM, instead of forgoing draft picks for overpriced + temporary fixes, or forcing players onto the field where/when they don't belong. Break the rule a little if we're talking about a demon situational pass rusher who must be pulled on rush downs, but that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I think Pryor has taken himself out of the game for a series in every game this season. Tie that with his season last year and he's either made of glass and tough as hell, or soft. I think it's a little bit of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blocker Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 M Williams is my favorite whipping boy on this D, but the title of most disappointing is a close race between Pryor and Mauldin. In hindsight the pre-camp hopes for Mauldin were undercut by what occurred in camp, where he did not take over the starting job. For myself and I would guess many here we also wanted to see Mauldin's development as a sign of Macc's drafting prowess, a factor not applicable to Pryor. But as for Pryor, it seemed completely reasonable to expect him to show development, and play up to his draft status. He hasn't. Clearly. I don't know if it's what Spermie suggests is some shortcoming of the CS in helping Pryor, or whether he's just not that good, too slow to be effective in the pass D. But if he keeps up the bad play, he may surpass Mauldin as most disappointing player on D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rex-n-effect Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Move Folk to QB Move Jenkins to TE Move Decker to OC ...**** why not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 12 hours ago, Gas2No99 said: With more speed and coverage ability required by defenses - and LBs specifically - to cover multi-WR spread formations and ridiculously athletic receiving TEs the ideal "measurables" for an ILB have changed dramatically for today's Modern NFL. The drafting of college safeties (SS, mostly) such as Shaq Thompson in CAR, Deone Bucannon in ARZ, Su'a Cravens in DC, indicates that the classic "Thumper" ILB (David Harris) is becoming obsolete and a liability in pass coverage. ILBs MUST be able to keep up with RBs and TEs in covering the underneath zones where the Jets have been CONSTANTLY burned in by opposing offenses. Lee is still learning and has had his significant rookie mistakes, but he is improving and fits the mold of the new darting LB that can also be overpowered or outruns the play. Pryor has been HORRENDOUS in coverage in the secondary and can not be trusted for deep coverage; he's been the main culprit in a lot of the BUSTS in coverage, especially against Seattle. He can still hit like a truck and has adequate speed to cover the underneath area. Just do not let him compromise the deep portions of the field as he's done thus far by keeping him as a safety. At this stage, I wonder if our CS would be willing to move Revis to FS, Gilchrist to SS, and utilizing Pryor - and Antonio Allen as well as he played LB @ USC- at ILB. If not this year, perhaps next year? Would Revis consider a move to safety? Would Pryor thrive as a front seven player instead of constantly being exposed with bad angles and awareness in the secondary? We should move him to QB, oh wait no we should have drafted a QB at 20 that year instead of him, a guy named Carr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 While he certainly doesnt have the characteristics of an ILB, it's not a crazy thought on situational downs. The only issue is, he cant cover when there's a cushion so what makes you think he can cover all the way up at the LOS? All that said, isnt this exactly what you signed Antonio Allen for? A true tweener who's proven he can cover at the LOS? And what happened to the Big Dime, Big Nickel packages that supposedly Bowles was the architect of in Arizona? We dont see it, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 This should have been their move last year, you know before spending a top 20 pick on an inside linebacker whom they are going to hamper by the system played. Bowles loved Deone Buchanan, he should have made Pryor his buchanan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehands Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Why not just play Bruce Carter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Not a crazy thought Mark Barrin moved from safety to OLB and improved significantly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoeword Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Aaron Pryor also hit like a truck, especially after he got up from the canvas after getting knocked down. Let the hawk play safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Max are you passing out drugs or something or gas everyone lost their ******* minds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 9 minutes ago, New York Mick said: Max are you passing out drugs or something or gas everyone lost their ******* minds This what happens with bad coaching and poor scheming. Every player looks horrible and people wanna start switching their positions and stuff. Just like great coaches with great scheming can make wideouts serviceable dbs in a pinch. NFL circle of life and shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 8 hours ago, Obrien2Toon said: Only rex Ryan would still draft a safety like Pryor in today's NFL. He's just about useless It was Idzik's move. I know this for a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 The real question is why are they playing Pryor as FS instead of a Box Safety. The answer, I think, has nothing to do with the best place to play Pryor; instead it has more to do with a lack of people to play CB and FS. In reality Sheldon shouldn't be playing OLB. He is playing there because there is no depth (and little quality) at OLB. Ideally, you would just rotate Sheldon in with Leonard and Mo. Not making excuses for Pryor as he sucks in coverage, but the real problem is a lack of playmakers in the secondary and OLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy2020 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 15 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said: Ur asking a secondary player to move to linebacker in the middle of the season. Lets make darron lee a corner while were at it. If you make Darron Lee a corner then who is going to play Quarterback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe W. Namath Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 3 hours ago, drdetroit said: Not a crazy thought Mark Barrin moved from safety to OLB and improved significantly It happened once. We will forgot the other thousand upon thousands of safeties who couldnt hack it that were outright cut. 1 in 10,000 are great odds. do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said: It happened once. We will forgot the other thousand upon thousands of safeties who couldnt hack it that were outright cut. 1 in 10,000 are great odds. do it! Thousands upon thousands? Can you cite examples since you know everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 48 minutes ago, detectivekimble said: It was Idzik's move. I know this for a fact. I wanted Cooks or Clinton-Dix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 10 hours ago, nico002 said: Pryor was our best defender last year- what happened??? No he wasn't . I have a problem with having to hide a high 1st round pick . We already have a problem covering backs and TEs and now you want to take a guy who can't cover and move him to that position . I think I see the logic in this move . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 6 hours ago, detectivekimble said: It was Idzik's move. I know this for a fact. I despise Rex, but this is true. Idzik called Rex from the road and pushed Pryor on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 That said, the worst part about drafting Pryor is that literally every criticism you could make for the move was exactly repeated by drafting Darron Lee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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