### Jets \ Lions -- Preseason Week Two, Game Thread ###

[MDL_JET]

10 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

The Hack pick is NOT indefensible. It's one game. However, the double safety with so many great offensive players on the board is really bad, even if they both become pro bowlers.

I think we would have picked Trubisky, but should have taken Mahomes, Watson or Peterman. And never signed McClown.

The Jets are still doing the right thing, there will just be some brutal moments. There is talent on this team

I'm having a hard time finding talent everywhere outside of Leo.

The offensive talent would be good if they were coming off the bench/depth guys. 

[Doggin94it]

22 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

The Hack pick is NOT indefensible. It's one game. However, the double safety with so many great offensive players on the board is really bad, even if they both become pro bowlers.

I think we would have picked Trubisky, but should have taken Mahomes, Watson or Peterman. And never signed McClown.

The Jets are still doing the right thing, there will just be some brutal moments. There is talent on this team

 

You think we should have taken the guy who was selected 4 picks ahead of us?

Today's game was brutal.  One thing I did appreciate was that they didn't play McCown at all - because that will likely set us back a bit in the regular season (after Hack's sh*t-show today, is there any doubt McCown starts?), but Bowles was willing to do what was in the team's long term interest rather than short term.  Let's hope that attitude carries forward.

[JohnnyLV]

14 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

You think we should have taken the guy who was selected 4 picks ahead of us?

Today's game was brutal.  One thing I did appreciate was that they didn't play McCown at all - because that will likely set us back a bit in the regular season (after Hack's sh*t-show today, is there any doubt McCown starts?), but Bowles was willing to do what was in the team's long term interest rather than short term.  Let's hope that attitude carries forward.

No I meant would of if available.

Bowles press conference was interesting. He did not name McCown the starter, did not say he would start or even play the third game, and said Hack and Petty will still get a lot of work. Maybe, they are actually both ahead of McClown from a practice standpoint. Also said a flat no to a question that it was safe to assume McClown would be the starter,

 

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, Bugg said:

True. And even if you luck into Darnold or Rosen, how do you help things with no OL and not much skill outside of Robbie Anderson and...I dunno. Cowboys succeeded with Elliott and Prescott because they have a beast OL, a solid TE and Dez Bryant in place already. The Jets' plan is they are suddenly going to stArt picking offensive players in 2018? So at best your entire offense will be figuring out how to play in the NFL. SAFETIES, MAN!

Free agency will likely make this team more than appealing for whichever young stallion we choose next year. There is plenty of money put away for next off-season and whether it's Macc or someone else in the GM seat spending it, my guess is that these holes will be far smaller or gone by this time next year.

- Get a QB with the top 3 pick we'll have.

- Spend the money, but do so wisely.

If they do that, this team will be more competitive than most think they will be within 3-5 years.

[RutgersJetFan]

2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

The Hackenberg pick was and is indefensible, but this year might be worse. I can see falling in love with Hackenberg's tools, getting a reference from O'Brien, etc., but not adding another young guy to the QB room is mind-boggling. I'm not even talking about Watson/Mahomes/Kizer; I'm talking about an arm that can offer even a modicum of competition at the back end of the roster. C.J. Beathard was drafted in the third round, is actually (not "basically" or "essentially" or whatever the ****) a rookie, and was playing with the 2nd and 3rd string of one of the few teams worse than the Jets, and he showed more poise and command of the offense tonight than Hackenberg has shown at any point in his miserable squirrel-handed life.

I had no problem with drafting him. Whatever, take a shot on a QB. Fine. Have at it. But the second he wasn't even good enough to put on pads he should have been cut. Then not drafting anyone this year, I mean come on. Look at teams that have found quarterbacks, this is not what they did.

[Jet9]

I used to think that if I was in too good of a mood the remedy was to watch Million Dollar Baby. Now I am CONVINCED that to bring someone back down to reality they just need to click on any JN thread. Sadness, dismay, hysteria, and half full glasses becoming half empty are the real deal around here. 

[BurnleyJet]

8 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Inches or cm?  This information is relative to my interests.

Now I'm worried

Ps We've had Brexit so it's inches

[BurnleyJet]

4 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

It feels great on draft night when you get the consensus BPA, but then you realize 3 months later he plays Safety, and you have no QB, RB, OL, and you go, and double down in Rd 2 on another Safety, and then look at the talent on offense you left on the board, it's astonishing.

Both of these guys Macc and Bowles are gone after 2017. It's a do-over, I could tempt a Top GM prospect, with #1 pick, 80 mill cap space and no expectations.

[jetscrazey]

It's sure looking like the Jets will get a Darnold or Rosen type and then invest heavily in the o-line next offseason (plus a WR).

[Scoop24]

Just now, jetscrazey said:

It's sure looking like the Jets will get a Darnold or Rosen type and then invest heavily in the o-line next offseason (plus a WR).

I wish I could just as confidence like this.. but we will hire some defensive HC who draft defense again smh 

[ECURB]

I love how people blame the OL and WR...

The Jets D line put just as much pressure on the lions... Their 3 qbs all looked better

The jets dbs had a few near picks too...

Hack sucks. No need to spin it.

[dbatesman]

5 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Free agency will likely make this team more than appealing for whichever young stallion we choose next year. There is plenty of money put away for next off-season and whether it's Macc or someone else in the GM seat spending it, my guess is that these holes will be far smaller or gone by this time next year.

- Get a QB with the top 3 pick we'll have.

- Spend the money, but do so wisely.

If they do that, this team will be more competitive than most think they will be within 3-5 years.

Oh good, free agency, awesome

[Warfish]

7 hours ago, LionelRichie said:

I don't know what animal that even is but you totally missed the point of the post.   it had nothing to do with hackenburg and everything to do with maccagnan.   next time i will be sure to post the remedial version just for warfish and the rest of the kids on the short bus.  

Next time I suggest understanding a post before you roll into the "yur dumbz" response.

By the way, the animal in question is a Groundhog.  As in Groundhog Day.  Like the film with Bill Murray.  As in "we've been here before, repeatedly, and are seemingly reliving the same day (i.e. issue) again and again and again".

**** sake some people.

[Warfish]

7 hours ago, johnnysd said:

What's your solution? Continue to strive for mediocrity?

Well, as has been stated repeatedly, I would never have drafted Hack.  And I would have drafted far more evenly between Offese and Defense.  And I've have drafted Watson last year.

With that said, my solution right now?  Play Hack, said that from the start.  No matter how horrible he may or may not be, he starts all 16 if I'm the GM.  Ensure that he gets the entire year to show who he is, then dump him at years end (most likely) when he proves he is a Sanchez/Geno style bust.  

Then draft the best QB available in the next draft as high as possible, and use the rest of the draft to start filling in some offense-side holes.

But for the love of God stop blaming everyone else for failure of the QB.  Sanchez did not suck because he didn't get a fair chance and needed weapons.  Geno did not suck because he needed a fair chance and weapons.  And Hack does not suck because he needs a fair chance and weapons.  These players suck because they are not good Pro level QB's, and they fail to elevate the game of anyone around them.  Julian Edelman does not make Tom Brady, Tom Brady makes the various Julian Edelman's of the world into weapons.  Our QB choices make our skill position players worse, not better.

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, ECURB said:

I love how people blame the OL and WR...

The Jets D line put just as much pressure on the lions... Their 3 qbs all looked better

The jets dbs had a few near picks too...

Hack sucks. No need to spin it.

Major weaknesses on the team right now along with the RB position. 

The Lions scored 16 points our offense scored 0 points,(3 from a FG)  the faces have changed but the results haven't the same the offense has no players or game changers its a bunch of guys who probably wouldn't be in the NFL if it weren't for the NY Jets. 

3rd and long we throw the ball 7 yards. 

Almost doesn't count unless your playing horse shoes or hand grenades. 

Hack had no line to block and no one to catch the offense could be the worst in the NFL. 

[MDL_JET]

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Well, as has been stated repeatedly, I would never have drafted Hack.  And I would have drafted far more evenly between Offese and Defense.  And I've have drafted Watson last year.

With that said, my solution right now?  Play Hack, said that from the start.  No matter how horrible he may or may not be, he starts all 16 if I'm the GM.  Ensure that he gets the entire year to show who he is, then dump him at years end (most likely) when he proves he is a Sanchez/Geno style bust.  

Then draft the best QB available in the next draft as high as possible, and use the rest of the draft to start filling in some offense-side holes.

But for the love of God stop blaming everyone else for failure of the QB.  Sanchez did not suck because he didn't get a fair chance and needed weapons.  Geno did not suck because he needed a fair chance and weapons.  And Hack does not suck because he needs a fair chance and weapons.  These players suck because they are not good Pro level QB's, and they fail to elevate the game of anyone around them.  Julian Edelman does not make Tom Brady, Tom Brady makes the various Julian Edelman's of the world into weapons.  Our QB choices make our skill position players worse, not better.

Is there any recent examples of a QB doing that with such a bad roster like the Jets have? Bad oline, zero run game and late round/udfa's starting at WR? I mean Hack has not been good, just thinking of our next poor QB that will be thrown to the fire with nothing around him. 

[Jet Nut]

8 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

Your argument is terrible. You've been wrong every steps of the way with hack and rely on the same excuse that was there for Geno that if you read this thread has several other people pointing out this fact that it's the same story all over again "Can't judge hack because..."

Hack sucks. If you and macc could accept that, the Jets might be able to find a QB. I'm sorry you don't get the correlation between Geno defenders and hack defenders. 

You have no idea what you are talking about.  Bringing Geno into it is off base on every level.  Especially when the loudest some got hating on Geno was when they insisted on Fitz.  Being as wrong as wrong can be with Fitz somehow now has you right about Hack. Your best reason?  Geno.  Whatever makes you feel smart. You have no idea what i wanted with Geno or what I think about Hack.  So don't tell me what I need to accept in his case.  

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You have no idea what you are talking about.  Bringing Geno into it is off base on every level.  Especially when the loudest some got hating on Geno was when they insisted on Fitz.  Being as wrong as wrong can be with Fitz somehow now has you right about Hack. Your best reason?  Geno.  Whatever makes you feel smart. You have no idea what i wanted with Geno or what I think about Hack.  So don't tell me what I need to accept in his case.  

Geno supporters do not get to play a "you were wrong about Fitz" card.  Sorry.  No one has been as wrong about a QB as Geno fans were.

Well, till now perhaps....

[August]

24 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Well, as has been stated repeatedly, I would never have drafted Hack.  And I would have drafted far more evenly between Offese and Defense.  And I've have drafted Watson last year.

With that said, my solution right now?  Play Hack, said that from the start.  No matter how horrible he may or may not be, he starts all 16 if I'm the GM.  Ensure that he gets the entire year to show who he is, then dump him at years end (most likely) when he proves he is a Sanchez/Geno style bust.  

Then draft the best QB available in the next draft as high as possible, and use the rest of the draft to start filling in some offense-side holes.

But for the love of God stop blaming everyone else for failure of the QB.  Sanchez did not suck because he didn't get a fair chance and needed weapons.  Geno did not suck because he needed a fair chance and weapons.  And Hack does not suck because he needs a fair chance and weapons.  These players suck because they are not good Pro level QB's, and they fail to elevate the game of anyone around them.  Julian Edelman does not make Tom Brady, Tom Brady makes the various Julian Edelman's of the world into weapons.  Our QB choices make our skill position players worse, not better.

So you use Tom Brady as an example? One of the few quarterbacks in history that took average talent at receiver and made them better than they were? How about surrounding your young developing quarterback with talent so you can evaluate him better? That's what normal NFL franchises does. 

[dbatesman]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You have no idea what you are talking about.  Bringing Geno into it is off base on every level.  Especially when the loudest some got hating on Geno was when they insisted on Fitz.  Being as wrong as wrong can be with Fitz somehow now has you right about Hack. Your best reason?  Geno.  Whatever makes you feel smart. You have no idea what i wanted with Geno or what I think about Hack.  So don't tell me what I need to accept in his case.  

[56mehl56]

8 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

I think Adams will be a very good player, but there is no way the Chiefs do any deal around Adams for Mahomes. They would not do Adams, Next years #1 and Hack. There is no reasonable deal they would consider for any player on the roster for Mahomes.

Did you even read the 1st sentence I wrote.

[Augustiniak]

20 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

Is there any recent examples of a QB doing that with such a bad roster like the Jets have? Bad oline, zero run game and late round/udfa's starting at WR? I mean Hack has not been good, just thinking of our next poor QB that will be thrown to the fire with nothing around him. 

This is the underlying problem that the current gm has not yet addressed.  The offense has only 1 former first round draft pick, and besides hack and asj i don't know if there are any former 2nd round draft picks.  Hack didn't look good but there is nobody else doing anything right.  Mccags seems to think you can get o-linemen later in the draft, as well as rbs and tes.  So the only players on offense worth 1st and 2nd round picks are qbs and WRs, thus devin smith and hackenberg.  It's no accident that in the past 20 years the only times the offense has been good was when all the skill players were imported, farve, Edwards, Holmes, Thomas jones, Martin, vinny, Marshall, decker, etc.  there's something about this team where the people in charge except tannenbaum are afraid to swing for the fences on offensive players.

[Jet Nut]

55 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Geno supporters do not get to play a "you were wrong about Fitz" card.  Sorry.  No one has been as wrong about a QB as Geno fans were.

Well, till now perhaps....

Only the ones who still can't get the story straight.  Fitz supporters were screaming Geno sucks, Fitz is good while I was screaming let them compete and let the best man win.  You guys were dead wrong, I wanted competition and never wanted to pay Fitz all that money.  Said more than enough times we could get as much with Geno and save 12 mil. 

So yes, i get to say it.  You and the Fitz supporters who ridiculed those of us who wanted to give Geno one last chance should stop telling us what we can play.  And no one was ever as wrong as you guys who pimped Fitz.  Ever. 

[August]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Geno supporters do not get to play a "you were wrong about Fitz" card.  Sorry.  No one has been as wrong about a QB as Geno fans were.

Well, till now perhaps....

What should "Geno fans" be "wrong about". The fact that he was a young quarterback that was surrounded by little talent around him? Or that his best receivers during his rookie year was a washed up Kellen Winslow and Jeremy Kerley? And yet he seemed to play ok at times when those 2 were on the field? Or his second year despite the inconsistency showed some improvements and despite his best receiver Eric Decker being in and out of the lineup with a hamstring injury? He was able to move the ball and make plays and show some promise? Or the fact that he never got a chance to play with Decker and Marshall for an extended period of time because we had a stubborn coach? A coach that chose to hitch his wagon on an older quarterback that had no long term future and who had no upside whatsoever? That very same older quarterback that the fans and media swore was the biggest reason for our "success" in 2015, and who they ultimately pressured the team into resigning? The same older quarterback that showed his true colors in 2016 after the fans and media told us that he was "the new Vinnie" he was "the new Rich Gannon" and "we need him in order to win games"? Yes it's fair to say to whoever that supported that older quarterback that they were wrong. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

Oh good, free agency, awesome

So with all the cap room this team will have next year you as GM wouldn't go shopping for FAs?  

 

[JetFaninMI]

Guys I was at the game last night. I can't believe I'm going to say this but I was impressed that Bowles started Hack-off and played Petty as well. That's as far as my praise goes. First off let me say I was reserving judgement on Hack-off until I saw him in game action. I can say this with no doubt in my mind: Hack-off is not an NFL QB. From start to finish Hack-off was just plain bad. Locking in on one WR, over throwing the ball, just plain bad all around play. The guy has no instinct for the game plain and simple. Petty looked WORLDS better than Hack-off. Even though it was against third stringers he looked like he belonged on the field.  He had a TD pass dropped that went right through the guys hands late and would have made this a game even with the horrible play all game long. I'm not saying Petty is the QB of the future but he deserves to move up on the depth chart and battle it out with McClown for the right to start. Hack-off, with this performance should be out of the running. It wasn't even as if the Lions played well. They were extremely beatable and take away the gift TD they were handed and the D was not that bad. This is all on Hack-off. If Petty had started the game we might even be talking about a win here that's how bad the Lions were. The Jets with Hack-off in there never even mounted a challenge. Hack-off has just proven what most have been saying all along. Macc made a horrible mistake drafting him and compounded that mistake by not drafting better especially in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Macc has set this team back with his draft picks and should be let go after this season is over. The writing is on the wall gentlemen.

[56mehl56]

11 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

This is the underlying problem that the current gm has not yet addressed.  The offense has only 1 former first round draft pick, and besides hack and asj i don't know if there are any former 2nd round draft picks.  Hack didn't look good but there is nobody else doing anything right.  Mccags seems to think you can get o-linemen later in the draft, as well as rbs and tes.  So the only players on offense worth 1st and 2nd round picks are qbs and WRs, thus devin smith and hackenberg.  It's no accident that in the past 20 years the only times the offense has been good was when all the skill players were imported, farve, Edwards, Holmes, Thomas jones, Martin, vinny, Marshall, decker, etc.  there's something about this team where the people in charge except tannenbaum are afraid to swing for the fences on offensive players.

It doesn't help that over this time frame we've had a litany of defensive minded HC's who think you can win modern football games with a great defense and a 3 yard and a cloud of dust offense. 

I'm willing to give Bowles his fair shot , but damn our next HC better come from an offensive minded background 

[dbatesman]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

So with all the cap room this team will have next year you as GM wouldn't go shopping for FAs?  

 

No, but I'm quite certain the Jets will because they're stupid, and because Maccagnan's drafts have been such an ungodly disaster that we'll need to spend every penny of the money just to put a marginally competitive team on the field.

[56mehl56]

3 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

Guys I was at the game last night. I can't believe I'm going to say this but I was impressed that Bowles started Hack-off and played Petty as well. That's as far as my praise goes. First off let me say I was reserving judgement on Hack-off until I saw him in game action. I can say this with no doubt in my mind: Hack-off is not an NFL QB. From start to finish Hack-off was just plain bad. Locking in on one WR, over throwing the ball, just plain bad all around play. The guy has no instinct for the game plain and simple. Petty looked WORLDS better than Hack-off. Even though it was against third stringers he looked like he belonged on the field.  He had a TD pass dropped that went right through the guys hands late and would have made this a game even with the horrible play all game long. I'm not saying Petty is the QB of the future but he deserves to move up on the depth chart and battle it out with McClown for the right to start. Hack-off, with this performance should be out of the running. It wasn't even as if the Lions played well. They were extremely beatable and take away the gift TD they were handed and the D was not that bad. This is all on Hack-off. If Petty had started the game we might even be talking about a win here that's how bad the Lions were. The Jets with Hack-off in there never even mounted a challenge. Hack-off has just proven what most have been saying all along. Macc made a horrible mistake drafting him and compounded that mistake by not drafting better especially in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Macc has set this team back with his draft picks and should be let go after this season is over. The writing is on the wall gentlemen.

How the F is a QB supposed to go trough progressions when he has 1.2 seconds to throw the ball. You mean the game plan that had them hand off of 1st and 2nd downs and put him into horrible 3rd down situations - yes I'd have no instinct of the game plan either. 

[Warfish]

11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Only the ones who still can't get the story straight.  Fitz supporters were screaming Geno sucks, Fitz is good while I was screaming let them compete and let the best man win.

The best man did win, and he was horrible.  Yet as horrible as he was, he was still better than the sh*tstain that was Geno Smith.  Your ranting will never make you "right" about Geno.

Quote

You guys were dead wrong, I wanted competition and never wanted to pay Fitz all that money.

We had a competition, twice.  Geno lost one by getting punched, the other by being a sh*tty QB.  Deal with it mate.  

If you don't like it, go root for the Giants about it.

 

[jason423]

After seeing more of the Bowles press conference Im more annoyed with last night. For the most part he passed off a lot of blame on the offensive line for Hack (which is fair) and then insinuated since they called so few pass plays he didnt get a fair chance anyway. You have  a team playing starters early and you go out there with mainly your second unit on the line, which would be a  third unit in most other places. What did he expect would happen?  They would be incredibly good?  He didnt give Beachum and those guys the night off like McCown. They came in later after the kids confidence would have been destroyed anyway. And when it comes to passing plays by all means be like the Eagles and call more. If you want to evaluate the guy go bombs away and let him fling it. I dont need to see him hand off to Bilal Powell running for 3 yards to mimic a real game.  Maybe they wanted a built in set of excuses but you just cant make any sense out of what their plan in right now.

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

It doesn't help that over this time frame we've had a litany of defensive minded HC's who think you can win modern football games with a great defense and a 3 yard and a cloud of dust offense. 

I'm willing to give Bowles his fair shot , but damn our next HC better come from an offensive minded background 

True again.  Bowles won't last the season.  Mccags will be on thin ice by the end of the season.  Philosophy will only go so far, the jets need a gm who is willing to draft offense early and often.  The talent disparity is sickening, that the jets best wr is a UDFA.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, jason423 said:

After seeing more of the Bowles press conference Im more annoyed with last night. For the most part he passed off a lot of blame on the offensive line for Hack (which is fair) and then insinuated since they called so few pass plays he didnt get a fair chance anyway. You have  a team playing starters early and you go out there with mainly your second unit on the line, which would be a  third unit in most other places. What did he expect would happen?  They would be incredibly good?  He didnt give Beachum and those guys the night off like McCown. They came in later after the kids confidence would have been destroyed anyway. And when it comes to passing plays by all means be like the Eagles and call more. If you want to evaluate the guy go bombs away and let him fling it. I dont need to see him hand off to Bilal Powell running for 3 yards to mimic a real game.  Maybe they wanted a built in set of excuses but you just cant make any sense out of what their plan in right now.

It's almost as if they came up with a scenario where hack would fail so they could get the media off their backs that he should start.

[JetFaninMI]

18 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

How the F is a QB supposed to go trough progressions when he has 1.2 seconds to throw the ball. You mean the game plan that had them hand off of 1st and 2nd downs and put him into horrible 3rd down situations - yes I'd have no instinct of the game plan either. 

YOUR DEFENDING HIM?!?!?!? The guy even when not under pressure couldnt hit water if he fell out of a friggin boat. Even the Lions fan's I was sitting with could see how bad he was. They were saying stuff like good thing that guy Petty didn't start or the Jets might have beaten the Lions. That's how badly the Lions played. The Jets couldn't run granted but the Lions are notoriously good against the run and if the Jets had a guy who could make a friggin completion to set-up the run they would have looked better. No my friend Hack-off is not an NFL QB not matter how you slice it. Just stop with the bullspit. Hack-off is a horrendously bad QB and this just confirmed what guys on these boards have been saying all along. Wasting ANY friggin draft pick on Hack-off is grounds for dismissal and Macc needs to go plain and simple. Giving this guy a top draft pick and all that cap space next off-season will set this franchise back even further than it is now. No way Macc can be trusted to put together a team for ANY head coach to succeed with. Macc is out of his league as a GM and should be fired. This horrific showing just enforces that. There is no defense for it.

[Savage69]

13 hours ago, johnnyjet said:

Sackenberg.  Write it down. 

NJ named a town after him Hackensack..